Courtney Brown (3/15/2005)
 

Sounds like the Skins are seriously considering him, what do you think, is he worth the risk?

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Sorry Matty, I think this guys' a bust.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

No need to apologize to me, LOL

I'd sign him up for a minimal contract loaded with incentives.

Blache worked wonders for our D-line last year particularly for Griffin. If Brown can stay healthy, and that's a big if, the guy is a difference maker who could be a real find for our defense and finally give us the strong pass rush from the DE spot we've lacked for the past few years.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

He is a bust at $5m a year. But if he agrees to a serious pay cut and we work him in slowly (prior injuries) he should respond well. He has great potential.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

From what I understand, he considers our team his preferred destination, but doesn't want to lose money coming here. The Browns have a standing offer that averages $2 million for the remainder of his deal. If we can match that and sign him, I think it's worth it. If we have to beat that (with guaranteed money), then it isn't wise.

I'd love to slap a load of "performance guaranteed bonuses" on him and let him play for the league minimum and a respectable signing bonus. I just don't think it'll happen.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I would sign him. Quality DE's are hard to find and this guy was a good enough prospect to be the #1 overall pick in the draft. I would take the chance as long as we don't give him a huge signing bonus.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I would sign him only if the price is right. He's a true pass rusher, and he's fairly young. As long as he stays healthy, he should be very effective.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Doesn’t it sound odd that this is his "preferred" destination but he won't take less to come here? Wouldn’t that make whoever offers the most money the "preferred" destination? What the hell is the point of having a "preferred" destination when your decision will be based on solely on money? Sounds ridiculous to me.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Doesn’t it sound odd that this is his "preferred" destination but he won't take less to come here? Wouldn’t that make whoever offers the most money the "preferred" destination? What the hell is the point of having a "preferred" destination when your decision will be based on solely on money? Sounds ridiculous to me.[/QUOTE]
If I had the talent, I'd prefer to be a Washington Redskin. If my disappointing career, already in jeopardy because of recurring injuries, was at the point where I may be signing my last contract, I would take the most guaranteed money.

If Courtney Brown continues to perform at the same level he has throughout his professional career (missing an average of over 6 games a season), this will be the last contract he signs. I don't begrudge him at all for trying to ensure his future with the money he will receive.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

The Browns have the standing offer of $2M per, but who knows how serious they are about bringing him back even at that price.

Regardless, I think he's worth the gamble. I'd roll the dice on him.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I think he would be alright if we pick him up. I think he could bounce back somewhat from his earlier years.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Id sign him but not at $2m a year.

Give him the minimum with loads of incentives so he has to earn his cash.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

If the price is right. Role the dice. Williams could rotate him and maybe he wouldn't get hurt so quickly.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I'd be ok with $2 million per year as long as the signing bonus was miniscule. I would want to be able to cut ties relatively painlessly in case he ends up being a bust here too.

Give him some more of those unlikely to be earned incentives, like they gave Brunell. They don't count against the cap, from what I understand. Like if he had 10 sacks in a season or something, give him a couple extra million.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]If I had the talent, I'd prefer to be a Washington Redskin. If my disappointing career, already in jeopardy because of recurring injuries, was at the point where I may be signing my last contract, I would take the most guaranteed money.

If Courtney Brown continues to perform at the same level he has throughout his professional career (missing an average of over 6 games a season), this will be the last contract he signs. I don't begrudge him at all for trying to ensure his future with the money he will receive.[/QUOTE]
I don't begrudge him at all. I am just tired of hearing all the crap about "being a Redksin for life" or a "core Redskin" or "wanting to be in DC". I mean just be honest and say you're gonna take the money no matter where it is. The rest is simply a load of crap unless it really means that being in DC is worth taking less money. What they should be saying is "I prefer to be wherever they'll pay me the most". For some reason many of them are afraid to say something like that but they are obviously thinking it. Don't go around talking about specific destinations unless you are willing to make it happen regardless of other factors. I mean if I had chance to play professional football I'd want to be a Redskin too but I have no problem saying that I would go to whatever team was going to pay me the most.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Being a PSU alum and having seen Courtney in live action in State College, I have to admit I am biased, but I would love to see Arrington and Brown back on the same Defense again. Certainly I would not support signing him if it results in another harsh cap hit, but I would definitely roll the dice and take a chance here. I really think the potential upside is worth it.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I mentioned in the other thread a contract setup that might work. The big questions are whether he would take a backloaded deal and have some risk mitigation in the contract. Essentially how much is he willing to sacrifice to sign here. Does he want a longer deal or a shorter deal? I'd say probably a shorter deal since he will be taking a major pay cut and if healthy he will outperform his contract most likely. If he wants 2 mil average a year then give him a 4 year deal with a 4 million dollar SB and minimum salaries the next two years. Make the last two years voidable based on playing time for him and for us. IE: if he plays in 60% or more of the defensive plays then he can void the last two years and if not then we can void it. Offer roster bonuses in the last two years around 500K and salaries of 1 mil and 1 mil. All that ends up a at 2 mil average and offers him a potential short deal and us some injury risk mitigation in the voidable years.
This is a doable deal...

Re: Courtney Brown
 

There's no way I'd give him a multi-year deal.

Sign him up for 1-year.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

How does a low cost multi year deal hurt us? I'd say a 1 year deal is worse. It creates a situation where he can have one good year for us and be gone like Gardner. That worked out fine for us in the end but imagine it didn't . Imagine Gardner went on to have a couple more bowl years. If not for degenrative back it probably would have happened. As far as I know Brown's injuries haven't been or are degenerative. I'd like to bring him in and give him and us at least a two year chance to see what could happen. After that re-evelaute and move on if need be.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

If the price is right, I wouldn't them taking a chance on him.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=dirtbag2112]Sorry Matty, I think this guys' a bust.[/QUOTE]

Thats what they said about Griffen when he was with the Giants...If the price is right, Absolutely take a shot!!!!

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I hope we sign Courtney Brown. He can deffinatly do big things when healthy, and I believe with the rotation of Daniels (who also has health concerns), Warner, Evans, Wynn, and maybe a 3rd round rookie like Jovan Haye (who I also think is going to surprise people) our DE situation could be much better this season.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

we should do it for the right incentive laden price. also dont sleep on c. clemons and r. boschetti, both of those young guys stepped it up at the end of the year and have good days ahead of them, can you really say that about brown?

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]There's no way I'd give him a multi-year deal.

Sign him up for 1-year.[/QUOTE]

Just curious, but by that logic would you sign Plax to a one year deal as well? Unless we are in a strong position to make a deep playoff push. I dont see the point to a one year deal. If he is a beast, we now have to sign him to a huge contract or lose him, and unless we did something this year...pointless. If he is a bust.....flat out pointless. So I am not sure of the incentive, unless you think we are close to winning it all (which I think about this time every year BTW :biggthump ).


I say if you're going to gamble, gamble...if not dont put your chips in the middle

Re: Courtney Brown
 

It's Griffin and I dont think he was a big gamble.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]How does a low cost multi year deal hurt us? I'd say a 1 year deal is worse. It creates a situation where he can have one good year for us and be gone like Gardner. That worked out fine for us in the end but imagine it didn't . Imagine Gardner went on to have a couple more bowl years. If not for degenrative back it probably would have happened. As far as I know Brown's injuries haven't been or are degenerative. I'd like to bring him in and give him and us at least a two year chance to see what could happen. After that re-evelaute and move on if need be.[/QUOTE]

Brown might not be interested in signing a multi-year deal at a bargain basement price.

A one year deal works for both sides, it's low risk and high reward.

Even if he were to sign a multi-year deal at a low price, if he has a great year in 2005 he would likely hold out for a bigger deal.

I just don't see the point in signing a guy like Brown with his history of injuries to a long term deal.

As for Gardener, everything went right for the Skins on that deal. He had a great year for us, went to Denver for the big bucks and was done before he even got started.

For once the Skins got it right with someone, no sense in imagining what could have happened if he stayed healthy, even if he did stay healthy for 2-3 years which was highly unlikely given his history, I still think the Skins made the right choice in choosing to not tie up a ton of money in him.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=dirtbag2112]It's Griffin and I dont think he was a big gamble.[/QUOTE]

When I have nothing better to do, Ill go back and correct your spelling errors, In the mean time, I'll just mention that nobody said he was a big gamble...you said Brown is a bust ..same label that was given to "GRIFFIN" (is that better :rolleyes: )

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=beg8878]Just curious, but by that logic would you sign Plax to a one year deal as well? Unless we are in a strong position to make a deep playoff push. I dont see the point to a one year deal. If he is a beast, we now have to sign him to a huge contract or lose him, and unless we did something this year...pointless. If he is a bust.....flat out pointless. So I am not sure of the incentive, unless you think we are close to winning it all (which I think about this time every year BTW :biggthump ).


I say if you're going to gamble, gamble...if not dont put your chips in the middle[/QUOTE]

I was in favor of signing Plax when free agency started, but not now. Interest in him has been lukewarm at best and that scares me.

For the sake of the discussion, if the Skins were interested then yes, a one year deal might make sense. Burress is in the position right now where if he doesn't get the long term deal he wants, he wants a one year deal.

A one year deal makes sense from the team's persepective if you don't want to give him a $30M deal with a large bonus, and it appears that nobody is willing to give him that right now. So what else is left to do? If he's not going to lower his asking price, a one year contract is the only way to go.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

In 2001, Brown missed 11 games with a knee and ankle ailments. In 2002, he missed five games with a knee injury that required surgery. In 2003, Brown missed three games after tearing his right biceps. This past season, Brown suffered a serious foot injury in Week 2 against Dallas and had season-ending surgery. Brown reportedly had screws removed from his foot recently.

...uhh no thanks

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Sounds like he's just an unlucky fella. I'd take the chance, provided the price is right. At first, I was thinking a multi-year incentive-laden deal, now I am definitely in Matty's camp of a 1-year deal which is high yield for both sides.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=dirtbag2112]In 2001, Brown missed 11 games with a knee and ankle ailments. In 2002, he missed five games with a knee injury that required surgery. In 2003, Brown missed three games after tearing his right biceps. This past season, Brown suffered a serious foot injury in Week 2 against Dallas and had season-ending surgery. Brown reportedly had screws removed from his foot recently.

...uhh no thanks[/QUOTE]

Well, he was on a downward trend in games missed going into last season. Maybe last season was a fluke :laughing2

Re: Courtney Brown
 

None of his injuries are degenerative. Looks like a bit of unluckiness coupled with a somewhat less than rugged frame. The luck has to turn at some point and if rotated enough his shelf life probably increases proportionally.

Matty just for the record in the other thread I also mentioned that he would probably want any long term deal to have more money. That is one reason I mentioned the idea of voidable years. The best of both worlds really. Keeps the contract short and mitigates injury risk. Let's be honest, he's not going to get a long term big money deal. At best he'd get a deal like the one I proposed and if he is even mildly healthy the deal is worth it for us. I look at a 1 year deal and see only bad things. If we're confident enough to give him a deal why wouldn't we try and lock him up a little longer? The one year deal just screams one and done. With his talent I'd say we'd get the short end of the stick most of the time there. A nice little 4 year(actually two year with the voidables) gives him a chance to show he can stay healthy more than one season and gives us some time to extend him if he does. I am certainly not advocating we sign him to a four year deal that end up costing us 8 mil for 9 games in four seasons.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I know we took a gamble on guys like Walt Harris who was recovering from potentially carreer ending surgery, but doesn't coach preach about how he likes tough, durable guys? Maybe Brown is just unlucky so I guess our organization would be an appropriate fit.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

With a player with an extensive history of injuries like Brown, what's wrong with the thought of one and done? Why take on any additional risk if you don't have to?

That's just my opinion, guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

if we get brown to a reasonable contract, with incentives to earn him more pay, that would, IMO, eliminate us from getting a DE, james or merriman, with our first pick. id have to think we would get a CB or WR after that. signing Courtney brown fills one more hole for us at this moment, even tho he may get hurt as the season goes on. i think this is a good pick up if it happens. one less hole to fill in the draft, reuniting him with lavar, and putting him wiht our defensive coaching staff. as long as it isnt a big deal that eats up the rest of our cap space, this would be a good move to me

Re: Courtney Brown
 

I agree; with those who think its a good idea to take a roll with him. Injuries are his biggest problem; not nessicarly his play. So he's not a "bust" in terms his overall play (although hes not worth the #1 pick either); but its alot of his injuris that hampered him. He would be a upgrade to our defense and Williams has always been one to get the most out of people. If we signed him I dont think it would be a bad idea at all. However, we have to keep it smart. Lots of incentives; basically just everything everyones saying.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Like I said in a post last week. I think this would be a really good pick up. We could then use are 1st round pick on a WR or CB. :biggthump
I think Courtny Brown has some really great football left in him. He can't get hurt ever year. Can he? :(

Re: Courtney Brown
 

Sorry guys, but I just don't see what is gained by a one year deal? It's been said before and I agree that the only time you sign players to one year deals is when you are making a run for the ring. I'm as optomistic as they come, but I really don't see this year being THE year. IMO you sign him to a 2-3 year contract with small bonuses and little guaranteed money. If he's a bust, you cut him after a year or two without the salary cap hit. If he's a stud, you keep him and consider renegotiating a longer-term deal that is even more cap-friendly after a year or two.
Let's not forget here, yes he's been injured early and often in his career, but let's not confuse him with some 35 year old, washed up D-lineman who only has a year or two left in the tank. The guy is the same age as Arrington and Samuels. Because he's coming off of injuries, we've got a chance to get him on the cheap. If he can stay healthy, playing under Williams' system, he could be great; which makes this a golden opportunity to make a real steal.
Again, the potential upside, IMO, is much greater than the risk of a couple million $ over the next few years. However, if you don't lock him into a multi-year contract, you lose almost all of that upside. Your best case scenario would be that he turns out to be a stud during a year when you aren't a legitimate contender for the championship and then you either can't resign him because he's on the open market or you have to pay through the nose to keep him. Just doesn't make sense to me. If you are going to sign him at all, it's got to be for more than one year. Otherwise, why bother? Just my opinion.

Re: Courtney Brown
 

He could be this seasons Shawn Springs. He will be reunited with Lavar in a system that is known for bringing the best out of players. If Lavar and he can be half of what they were at penn state together it will be worth every penny. Tell me how often 2 players from the same defense in college are taken in with the first 2 picks in the draft. Thats unreal, and the combination of him, lavar, and Taylor I would hate to play offense agianst that group :smashfrea

Re: Courtney Brown
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]Tell me how often 2 players from the same defense in college are taken in with the first 2 picks in the draft. Thats unreal, and the combination of him, lavar, and Taylor I would hate to play offense agianst that group


Absolutely agree. Picture it: you're an O-lineman lined up opposite Courtney Brown and out of the corner of your eye you see Lavar inching up to the line to blitz. What do you do? (besides say a prayer for your QB)