Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/2-dead-2-boys-hurt-in-nevada-school-shooting]2 dead, 2 boys hurt in Nevada school shooting[/url]

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

SPARKS, Nev. (AP) — A student at a Nevada middle school opened fire on campus just before the starting bell Monday, wounding two boys and killing a staff member who was trying to protect other children, Sparks police said Monday.



Will it ever stop?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Giantone;1034691]SPARKS, Nev. (AP) — A student at a Nevada middle school opened fire on campus just before the starting bell Monday, wounding two boys and killing a staff member who was trying to protect other children, Sparks police said Monday.



[B]Will it ever stop?[/B][/quote]

Not until we change our gun laws.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1034703]Not until we change our gun laws.[/quote]


I agree but others and the NRA disagree .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

I like how this story barely got any media attention because only two people died. When I first saw it last night it was already relegated to second page status on MSN. I guess since it's only 2 people dead it's apparently no big deal.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/21/21064166-slain-teacher-hailed-as-fallen-hero-after-school-shooting]Slain teacher hailed as 'fallen hero' after school shooting - U.S. News[/url]

I can't imagine how tough that teacher must be to stand in front of a school shooter and ask him to put the gun down. RIP.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1034703]Not until we change our gun laws.[/quote]

It's not going to stop than either.


As long as we continue to give these psychopaths media time, we are going to continue breeding these kinds of numb-nuts.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1034703]Not until we change our gun laws.[/quote]

Your correct. We need to arm our teachers.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Yes, the answer to guns is always more guns.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/justice/north-carolina-toddler-shot/]Father charged after 2-year-old fatally shoots herself - CNN.com[/url]

In New Orleans, a 5-year-old girl died June 23 after she came "into contact with a .38-caliber revolver and accidentally shot herself in the head" while her mother was at a store, police said.

The girl's mother was charged with cruelty to a juvenile until the 5-year-old died, at which point prosecutors added a second-degree murder charge. A judge in the case threw out the murder indictment last month, and the district attorney's office said it would appeal the decision, CNN affiliate WDSU reported.

In August, a 3-year-old boy in Dundee, Michigan, found a .40-caliber handgun belonging to a family friend on a closet floor in his home. He died after accidentally shooting himself in the head, police said. The family friend was charged with careless discharge of a weapon, a misdemeanor.

Less than two weeks ago, 2-year-old Michael Garcia Jr. was taken to a hospital after shooting himself in the legs with a .45-caliber handgun registered to his mother, according to CNN affiliate WFTV. The boy's injuries were not life-threatening, and the boy's father was charged with child neglect, the station reported.

Id like to see a law on the books that gives a mandadory sentences for parents who dont secure firearms that wind up killing or injurying other in situations above.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1034874]Yes, the answer to guns is always more guns.[/quote]

Kind of like the Cold War...

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1034874]Yes, the answer to guns is always more guns.[/quote]

Had that teacher been armed he might be here today and the killer dead. I don't like thinking we need to arm teachers but we can't leave them defenseless as we are now doing.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1034787]It's not going to stop than either.


As long as we continue to give these psychopaths media time, we are going to continue breeding these kinds of numb-nuts.[/quote]




The kid was 12 years old ,not even a teenager. Whatever he learned about handling stress or problems he learned from adults .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1034905]Had that teacher been armed he might be here today and the killer dead. I don't like thinking we need to arm teachers but we can't leave them defenseless as we are now doing.[/quote]



Ok , in your world .....he aims and miss's and kills another student ,what do you tell that students parents oh well he needs more practice ?More guns aren't the answer. I'm sure the NRA will solve this for us .

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Giantone;1034908]Ok , in your world .....he aims and miss's and kills another student ,what do you tell that students parents oh well he needs more practice ?More guns aren't the answer. I'm sure the NRA will solve this for us .[/quote]

This case the kid was stopped but in the other cases we lost 12 to 30 plus students which one armed person could have stopped.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1034905]Had that teacher been armed he might be here today and the killer dead. I don't like thinking we need to arm teachers but we can't leave them defenseless as we are now doing.[/quote]

Sorry I just can't get on board with this line of thinking.

Where does the gun get stored in the classroom to keep it away from the kids yet gives the teacher quick enough access? What about the liability involved if a kid somehow gets a hold of it? Who is going to pay to train everyone to properly use it? And finally I just hate the message it sends overall to society. Teachers with guns? WTF is the world coming to? And in the end it's not going to deter gun violence.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1034913]This case the kid was stopped but in the other cases we lost 12 to 30 plus students which one armed person could have stopped.[/quote]




You have no proof , again as in my scenario what if the armed guard (or teacher ) miss's or kills the wrong person/student ....what if the gun goes off by accident ??? No .

From your comments you haven't been around responsible gun owners. If you have a teacher carry they should be carrying, not squirreling the firearm away.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

australia (which is a smaller and somewhat different population to the US) instituted gun laws after a mass shooting there and they haven't had another one since:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders]Australian mass murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

whether it means anything here, it's at least worth looking at how other countries have dealt with similar issues.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=That Guy;1034941]australia (which is a smaller and somewhat different population to the US) instituted gun laws after a mass shooting there and they haven't had another one since:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_mass_murders]Australian mass murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

whether it means anything here, it's at least worth looking at how other countries have dealt with similar issues.[/quote]

I'd prefer to consider something like this rather than arming everyone like it's the wild west.

No mass shootings in Australia but check out the spike in violent crimes, like rape and assault. Banning guns allows the strong to prey on the weak. Their ban and the UK's bear that out.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1034905]Had that teacher been armed he might be here today and the killer dead. I don't like thinking we need to arm teachers but we can't leave them defenseless as we are now doing.[/quote]

Or we could make sure that the shooter had no gun. Then the teacher would be free to do, I don't know, teach?

[QUOTE=Lotus;1034951]Or we could make sure that the shooter had no gun. Then the teacher would be free to do, I don't know, teach?[/QUOTE]

Yes, let's magic away all the bad things in the world...... <sigh>

Shouldn't you be grooming your Sasquatch?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

gun control != 100% total gun ban. if you really think ar-15s are the best way to prevent rape, well...

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1034905]Had that teacher been armed he might be here today and the killer dead. I don't like thinking we need to arm teachers but we can't leave them defenseless as we are now doing.[/quote]

Well what if the kid shot the teacher, killed him, took the teacher's gun, and used it to kill more kids? Than what? If you're going to talk about scenarios you should probably check both ends of the spectrum.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[url=http://www.guns.com/2013/10/22/az-concealed-carrier-stops-gunman-opened-fire-rifle-weekend-party/]Arizona party turns violent; Gunman stopped by armed partygoer[/url]

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1034962][url=http://www.guns.com/2013/10/22/az-concealed-carrier-stops-gunman-opened-fire-rifle-weekend-party/]Arizona party turns violent; Gunman stopped by armed partygoer[/url][/quote]

Well there you go, I'll be getting myself a gun tomorrow. At least I won't get raped. Murica.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Giantone;1034937]You have no proof , again as in my scenario what if the armed guard (or teacher ) miss's or kills the wrong person/student ....what if the gun goes off by accident ??? No .[/quote]


You don't just hand a teacher a gun and say if anything happens start shooting. You pick teachers who are willing to take the proper training and make them take intensive classes on how to handle a gun. Guns don't go off by accident when handled properly. Cops and people with carry permits carry guns all the time and they don't just accidently go off. The problem with your scenario is that we know what happens when the teachers are not armed and its not good. These people seem to pick places where they know people are not armed.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1034951]Or we could make sure that the shooter had no gun. Then the teacher would be free to do, I don't know, teach?[/quote]

Like making drugs illegal?

It would be nice if the teachers could just teach but that's not todays world.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035009]Like making drugs illegal?

It would be nice if the teachers could just teach but that's not todays world.[/quote]

Drugs and guns are not the same thing. It is easier to get drugs through a prohibition than it is to get guns. Just ask Australia.

As for teachers, it is today's world (I am a teacher) unless someone demands that teachers pack heat.

Also, it is quite unfair to demand that teachers carry guns despite the fact that some teachers would be opposed to doing so. I thought that the Republicans were the party of individual liberty - where's the individual liberty of requiring people to carry guns just so they can teach?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1035027]Drugs and guns are not the same thing. It is easier to get drugs through a prohibition than it is to get guns. Just ask Australia.

As for teachers, it is today's world (I am a teacher) unless someone demands that teachers pack heat.

Also, it is quite unfair to demand that teachers carry guns despite the fact that some teachers would be opposed to doing so. I thought that the Republicans were the party of individual liberty - where's the individual liberty of requiring people to carry guns just so they can teach?[/quote]

You need to read what I posted. I said pick teachers who are willing (that would mean they want to go) take classes to carry. See above.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035034]You need to read what I posted. I said pick teachers who are willing (that would mean they want to go) take classes to carry. See above.[/quote]

No, I read that. Your words amount to, "You can't teach unless you are willing to carry a gun." Where on earth is the individual liberty in that?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

Adding or removing guns will not solve the problem that is causing the mass shootings. Until we address the multiple problems we have as a nation, such as glorifying the killers by always talking about them on the news, we will always have problems with mass shootings. The fact that people want to kill children for whatever reason is the true issue. Obviously our current approach is not working.

To me saying you should take away the guns to stop the killings is like saying you should take away birth control to stop pregnancies. Guns promote violence just as much as birth control promotes sex. But acting like those two things are the reason people will do those acts, is in my opinion foolish.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1035037]No, I read that. Your words amount to, "You can't teach unless you are willing to carry a gun." Where on earth is the individual liberty in that?[/QUOTE]

That's your attempt at reframing an argument to suit your position.

Shouldn't you be writing a local ordinance for the prevention of Unicorn stampedes?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Lotus;1035037]No, I read that. Your words amount to, "You can't teach unless you are willing to carry a gun." Where on earth is the individual liberty in that?[/quote]

This is what I said:
"You pick teachers who are willing to take the proper training and make them take intensive classes on how to handle a gun."

So if you can't understand that I'll try and make it clear. You find teachers that under their free will and desire want to carry. They then must take the proper training under their own will and desire so they can carry a gun under their own will and desire. At anytime they decide they do not want to carry a gun they can stop under their own will and desire.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035008]You don't just hand a teacher a gun and say if anything happens start shooting. You pick teachers who are willing to take the proper training and make them take intensive classes on how to handle a gun. Guns don't go off by accident when handled properly. Cops and people with carry permits carry guns all the time and they don't just accidently go off. The problem with your scenario is that we know what happens when the teachers are not armed and its not good. [B]These people seem to pick places where they know people are not armed[/B].[/quote]

It didn't seem to deter the shooters at the DC Navy Yard or Fort Hood.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035052]This is what I said:
"You pick teachers who are willing to take the proper training and make them take intensive classes on how to handle a gun."

So if you can't understand that I'll try and make it clear. You find teachers that under their free will and desire want to carry. They then must take the proper training under their own will and desire so they can carry a gun under their own will and desire. At anytime they decide they do not want to carry a gun they can stop under their own will and desire.[/quote]

I see your argument now. So how does that stop attacks involving teachers who don't want to carry guns?

A much simpler and complete solution is simply to take guns off the street. It worked in Australia, it can work here.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=Mattyk;1035070]It didn't seem to deter the shooters at the DC Navy Yard or Fort Hood.[/quote]

I guess you don't know that service members cannot carry a gun on base. That's why the shooters could carry on such an attack.

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1035079]I guess you don't know that service members cannot carry a gun on base. That's why the shooters could carry on such an attack.[/quote]

No MP's on base? No guns in those buildings at all?

Re: Another school Shooting Nevada
 

[quote=firstdown;1034807]Your correct. We need to arm our teachers.[/quote]

I strongly disagree with this. Even trained professionals have trouble hitting their targets in combat situations and they have routinely received multiple hours of gun training. Providing a teacher with 60 hours of training in identifying suspects, proper shooting technique under duress, and maintaining those skills would be counterproductive. While I assume you mean the teachers will be a deterrent and a shooting will be avoided, if a shooting occurs you will most likely have an intensely escalated situation. Instead trained professionals should be in place at all schools.