Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4027/redskins-ufas-face-possible-fed-ex-finale"]John Keim posted about the 15 unrestricted free agents[/URL] the Redskins have and if this is their last game as a Redskin at Fed Ex Field. Simple question, if you were the GM would you tell them to pack or want to bring them back?

My opinion:
[B]BACK-[/B]
Brian Orakpo- Homegrown talent at a position of need that will be too expensive to replace in either draft capital or in free agency.

Fred Davis- Especially with a new coach, clean slate. He's got a ton of flaws but I think the right coach can find a way to make him productive again and Reed/Davis can be a devastating combo. Likely will be a one year deal again.

Perry Riley- See reasons for Orakpo.

Chris Baker- Good, young depth and occasional playmaker. This is the type of player in the Snyder era who has gotten away and flourished elsewhere.

E.J. Biggers- Young, fast, provides depth as well and shouldn't cost too much.

[B]PACK[/B]
Darryl Tapp, Rex Grossman, Nick Barnett-No individual comments needed, provided little or nothing on the field and won't be missed.

Santana Moss, Reed Doughty-Carryovers from the Gibbs years. Thanks for the service but their production can easily be met or surpassed by younger and cheaper players.

Josh Morgan- He enters the 'Deion Sanders' category of someone who should show up at Redskins Park with a ski mask on whenever he picks up his paycheck.

Josh Wilson & Deangelo Hall- It's time to move on from this duo. I don't know if Wilson would even be in the NFL this year if it wasn't for us. Hall played well all year but this seems like 2012 London Fletcher. We're seeing the last flickers of talent but shouldn't be fooled into thinking it's about to be a real fire again.

Rob Jackson- Really could go either way on him. He's a playmaker when given the chance but not talented or consistent enough to be a starter. Also, one stupid or careless move from a one year drug suspension so he can be replaced but it wouldn't be the worst move if he's retained.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Bring all of them back for camp competition except Doughty, Grossman, Morgan, Wilson.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Keeping Davis, a guy who was out played by a rookie and a blocking TE and cutting Hall, the only guy on the secondary who has consistently produced every year? :doh:

... I can already tell this is going to be a really long offseason.

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;1050204]Keeping Davis, a guy who was out played by a rookie and a blocking TE and cutting Hall, the only guy on the secondary who has consistently produced every year? :doh:

... I can already tell this is going to be a really long offseason.[/QUOTE]

Yep

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

I'd bring Barnett back. He will be a favorite to slide into the starting lineup (or at least get more playing time) with Fletch gone. You can't count on Keenan yet

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1050208]I'd bring Barnett back. He will be a favorite to slide into the starting lineup (or at least get more playing time) with Fletch gone. You can't count on Keenan yet[/quote]

You still beating that Keenan drum?


Barnett is too old and Keenan too fragile, lot depends on what we are doing with the defense scheme wise. Both probably gone in my eyes.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Paintrain;1050197][URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4027/redskins-ufas-face-possible-fed-ex-finale"]John Keim posted about the 15 unrestricted free agents[/URL] the Redskins have and if this is their last game as a Redskin at Fed Ex Field. Simple question, if you were the GM would you tell them to pack or want to bring them back?

My opinion:
[B]BACK-[/B]
Brian Orakpo- Homegrown talent at a position of need that will be too expensive to replace in either draft capital or in free agency.

Fred Davis- Especially with a new coach, clean slate. He's got a ton of flaws but I think the right coach can find a way to make him productive again and Reed/Davis can be a devastating combo. Likely will be a one year deal again.

Perry Riley- See reasons for Orakpo.

Chris Baker- Good, young depth and occasional playmaker. This is the type of player in the Snyder era who has gotten away and flourished elsewhere.

E.J. Biggers- Young, fast, provides depth as well and shouldn't cost too much.

[B]PACK[/B]
Darryl Tapp, Rex Grossman, Nick Barnett-No individual comments needed, provided little or nothing on the field and won't be missed.

Santana Moss, Reed Doughty-Carryovers from the Gibbs years. Thanks for the service but their production can easily be met or surpassed by younger and cheaper players.

Josh Morgan- He enters the 'Deion Sanders' category of someone who should show up at Redskins Park with a ski mask on whenever he picks up his paycheck.

Josh Wilson & Deangelo Hall- It's time to move on from this duo. I don't know if Wilson would even be in the NFL this year if it wasn't for us. Hall played well all year but this seems like 2012 London Fletcher. We're seeing the last flickers of talent but shouldn't be fooled into thinking it's about to be a real fire again.

Rob Jackson- Really could go either way on him. He's a playmaker when given the chance but not talented or consistent enough to be a starter. Also, one stupid or careless move from a one year drug suspension so he can be replaced but it wouldn't be the worst move if he's retained.[/quote]

Pretty well formulated opinions, nice work.

I would boot Fred Davis, he hasn't shown me that he's willing to do the things necessary to be great. Logan Paulsen gives you what you want at #2 TE.

On the CBs, we really have to wait and see what happens with the defensive coaches and scheme. If we keep playing a zone like Haslett does, then waiting on Hall to see if he gets a big deal from some other team, and grabbing him for another low-cost one-year deal would be OK with me. But definitely don't give him a big deal, no matter what. Some team might be dumb enough to do it, if they do, let him go.

If we end up with a different defensive scheme then all bets are off and I'd like to see us start fresh with new CBs.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1050211]You still beating that Keenan drum?


Barnett is too old and Keenan too fragile, lot depends on what we are doing with the defense scheme wise. Both probably gone in my eyes.[/quote]

We have money to spend but still, can't count on filling every spot. I'd keep Barnett too, and keep looking for an even better option. Camp competition turns into depth.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Why would you say Moss is to expensive when he will be a FA. We saw last week when you look his way he can still put up the numbers. If the price is right I'd have him back. You also want to cut Hall who has just had on of his best years but you want to keep Davis with all his flaws.

I forgot Hall will also be a FA so I'd be OK with maybe a 3 yr deal that we can get out of with no big cap hits.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Quick question, what is DeAngelo Hall's contract situation. I thought he only signed a one year deal?

I'm saying we bring him back, no?

EDIT: I should have just read more carefully. I vote bring him back

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Chico23231;1050211]You still beating that Keenan drum?


Barnett is too old and Keenan too fragile, lot depends on what we are doing with the defense scheme wise. Both probably gone in my eyes.[/quote]

What drum?

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=firstdown;1050215]Why would you say Moss is to expensive when he will be a FA. We saw last week when you look his way he can still put up the numbers. If the price is right I'd have him back. You also want to cut Hall who has just had on of his best years but you want to keep Davis with all his flaws.

I forgot Hall will also be a FA so I'd be OK with maybe a 3 yr deal that we can get out of with no big cap hits.[/quote]

Moss, I'm kind of on the cusp about. He's really old and is no way starting material, but he's a guy that has been consistent (although not as much this year) and I think still does have some gas left in the tank.

I wouldn't be sad to see him let go, but I'd like to see him retire a Redskin.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=firstdown;1050215]Why would you say Moss is to expensive when he will be a FA. We saw last week when you look his way he can still put up the numbers. If the price is right I'd have him back. You also want to cut Hall who has just had on of his best years but you want to keep Davis with all his flaws.

I forgot Hall will also be a FA so I'd be OK with maybe a 3 yr deal that we can get out of with no big cap hits.[/quote]

On Moss, Hall and Davis I'm looking at age and upside.

Hall is 30 and is coming off one of his best years. If he comes back on a short, cheap deal then sure, that's fine. What are we going to see in 2014, 2015, 2016 that's going to match or improve on this year though, that's the question.

If Moss is back it would be a career achievement award. His production is replaceable at this stage. Next season he's going to be 36 and is not going to be MORE productive. Love the guy, great Redskin but not a building block for the future.

Davis is a risk/reward. He's still young enough and has the skills to be a productive #2 TE. He probably wants to be a starter somewhere but even last year he had no suitors. I wouldn't break the bank (even a piggy bank) however at the right price, with the right coach, he could be a solid retention for us. I'm not sold on Lunchpail Logan as a #2 TE. His blocking has dropped off dramatically this year and he's not really a threat in the passing game. As a #3 I'm fine with him but you can't go into a season with him as your #2 TE and expect to be prolific.

I'd bring back Rak, Riley, Baker, Jackson, and Hall. All the rest can hit the road for younger and cheaper options.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1050219]What drum?[/quote]

You've been a Keenum Robinson supporter since day one saying the 4th round pick could be a potential starter. I think after 2 injury plagued seasons he could be an afterthought in a regime change.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Paintrain;1050197][URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4027/redskins-ufas-face-possible-fed-ex-finale"]John Keim posted about the 15 unrestricted free agents[/URL] the Redskins have and if this is their last game as a Redskin at Fed Ex Field. Simple question, if you were the GM would you tell them to pack or want to bring them back?

My opinion:
[B]BACK-[/B]
Brian Orakpo- Homegrown talent at a position of need that will be too expensive to replace in either draft capital or in free agency.

Fred Davis- Especially with a new coach, clean slate. He's got a ton of flaws but I think the right coach can find a way to make him productive again and Reed/Davis can be a devastating combo. Likely will be a one year deal again.

Perry Riley- See reasons for Orakpo.

Chris Baker- Good, young depth and occasional playmaker. This is the type of player in the Snyder era who has gotten away and flourished elsewhere.

E.J. Biggers- Young, fast, provides depth as well and shouldn't cost too much.

[B]PACK[/B]
Darryl Tapp, Rex Grossman, Nick Barnett-No individual comments needed, provided little or nothing on the field and won't be missed.

Santana Moss, Reed Doughty-Carryovers from the Gibbs years. Thanks for the service but their production can easily be met or surpassed by younger and cheaper players.

Josh Morgan- He enters the 'Deion Sanders' category of someone who should show up at Redskins Park with a ski mask on whenever he picks up his paycheck.

Josh Wilson & Deangelo Hall- It's time to move on from this duo. I don't know if Wilson would even be in the NFL this year if it wasn't for us. Hall played well all year but this seems like 2012 London Fletcher. We're seeing the last flickers of talent but shouldn't be fooled into thinking it's about to be a real fire again.

Rob Jackson- Really could go either way on him. He's a playmaker when given the chance but not talented or consistent enough to be a starter. Also, one stupid or careless move from a one year drug suspension so he can be replaced but it wouldn't be the worst move if he's retained.[/quote]

I like your list with the exception of not resigning Rob Jackson, if Fred Davis is willing to grow up and act mature then I would negotiate with him.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

I wouldnt be surprised to see Rexy back but as a QB coach. From what I heard RG and KC really like him and his input.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

No to E.J. Biggers! He is the worst tackler in history, both on D and ST.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

I would bring back Orakpo, Tapp, Davis, Riley, Jackson, Hall, Moss, and Baker.

Grossman, Barnett, Doughty, Biggers, Morgan, and Wilson I would send packing.

And as for J.D. Walton, I don't know.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

EJ Biggers throw him out.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Fred Davis Seattle Seahawk all pro.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

its really easy to say i would get rid of this guy. but unless you have a plan, someone like hall does have value to the skins

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

My hope is that we get out of the 3-4 biz and into a version of the 4-3 under Leo like Seattle with Rack in the Leo position.
I would Keep:

Brian Orakpo- Can develop into elite with better coaching backing him.

Fred Davis- Only with a new coach. He is a talent, but he is also stupid.

Perry Riley- He is Antonio Pierce part 2.

Chris Baker- Good, young depth. Should continue to develop.

Darryl Tapp- Good depth player

Santana Moss- Can be a get player/coach for new crop of receivers

Deangelo Hall- He has taken a pay cut for the team and had a pro-bowl caliber year.

Rob Jackson- Playmaker that would do well in the new defense.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Why is it when a player hits 32 he's to old to play in the NFL for the Redskins?

It's nice to have a good mix of veterans with younger players. You can't just go out and pull up every 22 year old and expect him to produce right away. This isn't Madden.

Hall should stay, and so should Barnett.

Hall has arguably been our best player on D

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Bucket;1050252]Why is it when a player hits 32 he's to old to play in the NFL for the Redskins?

It's nice to have a good mix of veterans with younger players. You can't just go out and pull up every 22 year old and expect him to produce right away. This isn't Madden.

Hall should stay, and so should Barnett.[/quote]

Price has to be the determining factor on aging players. You can't destroy your cap to keep some experience.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1050204]Keeping Davis, a guy who was out played by a rookie and a blocking TE and cutting Hall, the only guy on the secondary who has consistently produced every year? :doh:

... I can already tell this is going to be a really long offseason.[/quote]

RE Davis; not that I think he'd want to stay here, and not that I would pay him a ton; but label me concerned about Jordan Reed and his health. These concussion issues in this capacity can really be limiting to his career. I do think that we need someone who is a suitable back up at that position as a pass catching threat next year.

I'd bring Hall back on another 1 year deal if we can.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1050198]Bring all of them back for camp competition except Doughty, Grossman, Morgan, Wilson.[/quote]

Doughty has been our most consistent and best safety, granted that isn't saying much. why would you not want him back especially at a league minimum?

I want RAK back but not at franchise player money. he is probably gone.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Why is Orakpo not worth franchise player money? He's a double digit sack guy, how easy do we think it is to find those guys?

He got hurt a couple times but I can't see holding that against him, there's no evidence those weren't freak things that could have just as easily happened to anybody.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

Keep in mind, good pass rushers NEVER hit the open market. You're talking about having to use a high first rounder to find another one.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1050260]Why is Orakpo not worth franchise player money? He's a double digit sack guy, how easy do we think it is to find those guys?

He got hurt a couple times but I can't see holding that against him, there's no evidence those weren't freak things that could have just as easily happened to anybody.[/quote]

He is not a top 5 sack guy.
I wouldn't put him in the same class as a Robert Mathis, Mario Williams or the Kid in STL.
He just doesn't beat the elite left tackles in the league.
Dallas has a solid LT and I will be surprised if RAK can do anything against him.

It's all about money not just about who we want to keep.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1050261]Keep in mind, good pass rushers NEVER hit the open market. You're talking about having to use a high first rounder to find another one.[/quote]

I agree and I will add Cornerback to that list.

You just don't find elite pass rushers and true cover corners even with first round picks.

But you don't sign an aging corner (Hall) to big money and you don't overpay for a guy that might ask for Mario Williams money.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=Paintrain;1050197][URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4027/redskins-ufas-face-possible-fed-ex-finale"]John Keim posted about the 15 unrestricted free agents[/URL] the Redskins have and if this is their last game as a Redskin at Fed Ex Field. Simple question, if you were the GM would you tell them to pack or want to bring them back?

My opinion:
[B]BACK-[/B]
Brian Orakpo- Homegrown talent at a position of need that will be too expensive to replace in either draft capital or in free agency.

Fred Davis- Especially with a new coach, clean slate. He's got a ton of flaws but I think the right coach can find a way to make him productive again and Reed/Davis can be a devastating combo. Likely will be a one year deal again.

Perry Riley- See reasons for Orakpo.

Chris Baker- Good, young depth and occasional playmaker. This is the type of player in the Snyder era who has gotten away and flourished elsewhere.

E.J. Biggers- Young, fast, provides depth as well and shouldn't cost too much.

[B]PACK[/B]
Darryl Tapp, Rex Grossman, Nick Barnett-No individual comments needed, provided little or nothing on the field and won't be missed.

Santana Moss, Reed Doughty-Carryovers from the Gibbs years. Thanks for the service but their production can easily be met or surpassed by younger and cheaper players.

Josh Morgan- He enters the 'Deion Sanders' category of someone who should show up at Redskins Park with a ski mask on whenever he picks up his paycheck.

Josh Wilson & Deangelo Hall- It's time to move on from this duo. I don't know if Wilson would even be in the NFL this year if it wasn't for us. Hall played well all year but this seems like 2012 London Fletcher. We're seeing the last flickers of talent but shouldn't be fooled into thinking it's about to be a real fire again.

Rob Jackson- Really could go either way on him. He's a playmaker when given the chance but not talented or consistent enough to be a starter. Also, one stupid or careless move from a one year drug suspension so he can be replaced but it wouldn't be the worst move if he's retained.[/quote]



Depends who you can get to replace these guys. Between the draft and free agency, the Skins should be able to find 6-8 new starters. As long as we get exceptional play from the QB position, that will be more than enough to contend for the division and a deep run in the playoffs.

The NFL is random and unpredictable, but the one thing that can compensate for flaws (and every team has them) is great QB play. This team's success next year depends almost entirely on the play of one Robert Griffin III.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=jamf;1050268]I agree and I will add Cornerback to that list.

You just don't find elite pass rushers and true cover corners even with first round picks.

But you don't sign an aging corner (Hall) to big money and you don't overpay for a guy that might ask for Mario Williams money.[/quote]

Where was Richard Sherman drafted? And who was the shut down corner for the Ravens and 49ers last year? Or the Pats and Giants when they played?

Shut down corners are like elite wide receivers. Everyone bitches and whines that we don't have one, but teams go to and win the Super Bowl every year without either. They're nice to haves, but hardly necessary.

Champ Bailey + Calvin Johnson = zero rings

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=44Deezel;1050286]Where was Richard Sherman drafted? And who was the shut down corner for the Ravens and 49ers last year? Or the Pats and Giants when they played?

Shut down corners are like elite wide receivers. Everyone bitches and whines that we don't have one, but teams go to and win the Super Bowl every year without either. They're nice to haves, but hardly necessary.

Champ Bailey + Calvin Johnson = zero rings[/quote]

People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=donofriose;1050292]People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.[/quote]

For far too long the Skins have overlooked or postponed to acknowledge that games and seasons depend how well guys in the trenches are.

We need to get back on track to build an ol/dl but it is not done in 1 offseason.

LeRibeus, sounds and plays like Augustus Gluths fatter cousin

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=44Deezel;1050286]

Champ Bailey + Calvin Johnson = zero rings[/quote]

Your ring argument is ridiculous. Are you going to say Trent Dilfer is better than Marino too?

If you want a ring comparison, Look at what Deion did for SF and Dallas. If he stays in SF, Dallas never gets past them and they get a couple more rings.
Don't tell me being able to single Jerry Rice or Michael Irvin is not a big deal.

[quote=44Deezel;1050286]Where was Richard Sherman drafted? [/quote]
I don't know where he was drafted but he is having an all pro year on the #1 defense. I bet you can name more of seattles DB than dlinemen.


[quote=44Deezel;1050286]And who was the shut down corner for the Ravens and 49ers last year? Or the Pats and Giants when they played? [/quote]
I do agree that you need a complete team to win but I think Cornerback is one of the hardest positions to draft and only 2 maybe 3 guys in the game right now could be considered shutdown corners. You have to make due without them because there just aren't many to go around.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=donofriose;1050292]People always forget that the line of scrimmage is where games are won, and then they always want their teams to go after a big name skill player.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. We need a major overhaul on Oline and some quality on Dline.

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=jamf;1050264][B]He is not a top 5 sack guy.[/B]
I wouldn't put him in the same class as a Robert Mathis, Mario Williams or the Kid in STL.
He just doesn't beat the elite left tackles in the league.
Dallas has a solid LT and I will be surprised if RAK can do anything against him.

It's all about money not just about who we want to keep.[/quote]

Orakpo's not a top-5 pass rusher in stats, but that's because he doesn't rush the quarterback every down. He's a complete linebacker, not just a pass rushing specialist. If he would rush the quarterback as much as the other elite pass rushers, he would be their equal in stats. So if he wants to be paid like Robert Mathis, then we need to pay him like that.

And, for whatever it's worth, Haslett says Orakpo is an elite pass rusher...

[url=http://realredskins.com/2013/12/20/need-to-know-haslett-makes-case-for-elite-orakpo/]Need to Know: Haslett makes case for ‘elite’ Orakpo | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url]

Re: Tell 'Em to Pack or Bring 'Em Back
 

[quote=jamf;1050268]I agree and I will add Cornerback to that list.

You just don't find elite pass rushers and true cover corners even with first round picks.

But you don't sign an aging corner (Hall) to big money and [B]you don't overpay for a guy that might ask for Mario Williams money[/B].[/quote]

He would be shooting for the stars in that case, he's not coming anywhere near a $100M deal. It's more reasonable to look at what the other 3-4 OLBs in the league make and go from there.

He's definitely going to be looking for a deal that tops Krugers from last year. Kruger got 5 yrs $40M last year with $20 guaranteed. I don't think anyone could argue he's not a better player than Kruger. So how much more does he get? I'd guess somewhere between Kruger's deal and Tamba Hali's (5 yrs $60M with $35M guaranteed).

Out of the top sack guys this year, only 3 OLBs have more than Orakpo.