2013 PFF Offensive Line Rankings
 

Our line was much better than what people gave them credit for.

[B]
3. Washington Redskins (16th)
PB: 4th, RB: 8th, PEN: 3rd

Stud: An All-Pro-(or at least second team)-like performance from Trent Williams (+38.3). He has moments that make you smack your head, but by and large he’ll slow down elite pass rushers and has the kind of athleticism that generates movement whatever scheme you’re running.

Dud: Too many bad days for Chris Chester (-5.5) who continues to baffle with his streaky play.

Analysis: This ranking won’t please many Redskins fans who see the line as the route of their problems. The truth is the Shanahans had the zone blocking scheme working perfectly with there regularly huge cutback lanes for their backs to work with. Much is made of the hits Robert Griffin III took as if every single one of them must be the responsibility of the line. Well RG3 himself was charged with 10 of those sacks (more than any other player on the team) as the team gave whoever was quarterback ample time to get the job done. The big question now is what Jay Gruden intends for this line and whether he’ll move to a more power based scheme that could put a number of jobs on the line.[/B]


Your QBs (both of them) can't hold the ball as long as they did and not expect to get sacked. Robert and Kirk were responsible for a good deal of those sacks this year and I'm not the only one that noticed this.

We have a top 3 LT and usually that means u have a solid line to begin with. Thanks for the stat

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Yeah, running 2 WR routes didn't have anything to do with holding the ball to long either.

A lot more involved in holding the ball then just the QB. Not saying they didn't. Just saying it wasn't always them.

Re: 2013 PFF Offensive Line Rankings
 

QB sucked
WRs as a whole sucker
OL sucked.

Team is 3-13.

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I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I mean I agree that fG3 held the ball too long on some plays, but more often then not the pocket would collapse immediately, or never form at all.

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[quote=Bucket;1055421]Yeah, running 2 WR routes didn't have anything to do with holding the ball to long either.

A lot more involved in holding the ball then just the QB. Not saying they didn't. Just saying it wasn't always them.[/quote]


..or a QB that scanned only 1/2 of the field. Some professionals analyzed game tape, and even cooley said this about him.

Re: 2013 PFF Offensive Line Rankings
 

Rankings or not the Oline never seemed in unison working as a group. Seemed like a serious lack of chemistry, so aside from the individual rankings, as a whole they struggled especially in pass protection.

Polumbus and Chester need to go now. I think Monty's time at center should be up as well.

Re: 2013 PFF Offensive Line Rankings
 

what a bullshit ranking.

The Redskins did everything they can scheme wise to limit Oline problems by pretty much only using 3 step drops and 2 WR routes and leaving 7 to block.

If this line was really a top ranked line, the QB would take 7 step drops which would let the WR's get down feel and create lanes for big plays. You don't get big plays from quick dump passes and it shows.

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At the end of the day, it seemed that no defense respected this line and RG3 didn't trust it. I'm sure RG3 and Cousins were guilty of a number of sacks, but it is hard to consider them a top ranked o-line when you constantly saw just about every lineman (except TW) get bulldozed by the opponent's d-line.

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It is going tbe interesting to see if Alfmo is good because of Alfmo or MS's zone blocking next year.

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Gruden likes zone schemes too, but he favors the inside zone running. Morris should be fine.

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[quote=Mattyk;1055462]Gruden likes zone schemes too, but he favors the inside zone running. Morris should be fine.[/quote]


That said. Our interior line is in need of a huge upgrade. (and RT)

Re: 2013 PFF Offensive Line Rankings
 

RGIII and Cousins were sacked 43 times. Tannehill was sacked 58 times, Flacco 48 and then a ton of guys in the 38-44 range, so we're near the top league in QB sacks our two QBs combined. Our QBs were hit 95 times, good for 10th in the league even with a mobile QB. (Browns led league with 121 QB hits)

I think Alfred Morris is really throwing this grade of our O-line off. The right side of our line was a revolving door in pass protection.

Look how many screen passes our offense threw. Whether it was out of planning or necessity because of the lack of pass protection, the QBs did not hold onto the ball long on those plays, which seemed to be a staple of our offense. With Garcon's ability to turn a screen into a big play, it's not a bad thing but there were times where we'd run multiple screens in a row.

Kyle Shanahan's playcalling...good riddance.

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[quote=WillH;1055439]I'm sorry, I don't buy it. I mean I agree that fG3 held the ball too long on some plays, [B]but more often then not the pocket would collapse immediately, or never form at all.[/B][/quote]

Exactly. The left side is solid, thanks to Williams. But the right side of the line never formed into a pocket, thanks to Chester and Polumbus. Does anyone have that GIF of Polumbus backing up as soon as the ball is snapped?

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1688619-breaking-down-what-makes-tyler-polumbus-the-nfls-worst-starter]Breaking Down What Makes Tyler Polumbus the NFL's Worst Starter | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: 2013 PFF Offensive Line Rankings
 

[quote=jamf;1055445]what a bullshit ranking.

The Redskins did everything they can scheme wise to limit Oline problems by pretty much only using 3 step drops and 2 WR routes and leaving 7 to block.

If this line was really a top ranked line, the QB would take 7 step drops which would let the WR's get down feel and create lanes for big plays. You don't get big plays from quick dump passes and it shows.[/quote]

Agreed, you have to be real careful with PFF rankings sometimes. I generally agree with the way they grade players though. Scheme, pistol, alot of things were done, but the line was never meant for pass pro. The interior is the problem, the edges of the line are elite or good enough. They should sacrifice some mobility and go for more size and strength IMO. I doubt it affects Morris at all, he is great with contact anyways. The other thing is we struggle blocking outside of the pocket area, WRs and TEs this year. As we've seen on film, one missed blocked from a WR or TE can ruin a play. The assignments get so complicated, and that is another knock on Shanahan, too much thinking.

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good news is there are a lot of upgrade OTs available... but nothing at OG. might have to try the draft there.

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[quote=SirLK26;1055469]Exactly. The left side is solid, thanks to Williams. But the right side of the line never formed into a pocket, thanks to Chester and Polumbus. Does anyone have that GIF of Polumbus backing up as soon as the ball is snapped?

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1688619-breaking-down-what-makes-tyler-polumbus-the-nfls-worst-starter]Breaking Down What Makes Tyler Polumbus the NFL's Worst Starter | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

bleacher report spot on, amazingly. Folks Polumbus sux

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[quote=NC_Skins;1055441]..or a QB that scanned only 1/2 of the field. Some professionals analyzed game tape, and even cooley said this about him.[/quote]

See, and that's the point. That is how the offense worked. The routes were consolidated so that his reads were close to each other on half the field. This is due to a lot of reasons.

It was the scheme.. In the long run, it was a offense built to abuse RG3's abilities and never progress him. Just used to win now, but once defenses caught on there was no plan B.

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[quote=Evilgrin;1055470]Agreed, you have to be real careful with PFF rankings sometimes. I generally agree with the way they grade players though. Scheme, pistol, alot of things were done, but the line was never meant for pass pro. The interior is the problem, the edges of the line are elite or good enough. They should sacrifice some mobility and go for more size and strength IMO. I doubt it affects Morris at all, he is great with contact anyways. The other thing is we struggle blocking outside of the pocket area, WRs and TEs this year. As we've seen on film, one missed blocked from a WR or TE can ruin a play. The assignments get so complicated, and that is another knock on Shanahan, too much thinking.[/quote]

I am shocked someone agrees with me!
when I post something at 5AM it's usually garbage.

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[quote=That Guy;1055471]good news is there are a lot of upgrade OTs available... [B]but nothing at OG.[/B] might have to try the draft there.[/quote]

Zane Beadles might become free and would be an upgrade.

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[quote=mredskins;1055459]It is going tbe interesting to see if Alfmo is good because of Alfmo or MS's zone blocking next year.[/quote]

Are you kidding me? You still don't see Alfmo's talent? Well, I'm not going to argue the point with you because it's senseless.

If there is any player on this team whose production we don't need to worry about, it's Alfmo. If you can't see that, just believe the rest of us.

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yeah, gee. i guess now that the shanny zone blocking is gone, morris is going to forget how to break tackles or make good reads.

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The problem with these rankings are they're based on what happened, not what the line is capable of. If the line weren't so shitty the play design could have been vastly different.

Not saying Griffin and others don't share blame. But this line is a huge reason we couldn't do more.

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IT also seems to ignore the fact the the pocket routinely collapsed. I mean rarely was Rob able to take a drop without one or more linemen getting pushed back up on him.

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[quote=Mattyk;1055462]Gruden likes zone schemes too, but he favors the inside zone running. Morris should be fine.[/quote]

I think he might fit better on the inside stuff too.

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PFF is a joke.

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Say what you want about the pass protection, personally I feel RG3 had plenty of time on most plays. But you also have to consider the success of Alfred Morris, which is directly the result of a good offensive line. With pass protection, the receivers didn't help much either I know (I think because of poor play design/choice). But RG3 needs to improve more.

I feel the best way to help RG3 is to give him a defense. If we could hold teams to under 20 points like good teams do, he wouldn't have to put his body on the line every single game. We could also run the ball more effectively too which takes more pressure off of him.

Here is another stat from PFF which shows that we had the worst pass rush in the entire league through November. [URL]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/27/pass-rushing-productivity-team-defenses/2/[/URL]

I am glad the Shanahans are gone and I hope Hazz is gone too. Hopefully this will be a good change for the team and Gruden can coach up RG3. Not having to rehab will also help him tremendously for next season.

Bottom line: Fixing our defense NEEDS to be the #1 priority this off-season. I can deal with our offensive line and I think Griffin will improve on his own.

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[url]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol[/url]

FO says we're 23rd, and that morris is pretty good. we also run left 40%, right 27% and inside the rest. that points to a weak right side, and the stuff rate on runs is bad for us. still #4 in power success (3rd/4th/goal and 2 yards or less to go).

i think that's a much better analysis than PFF.

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It's hard to be the third best line in the league with so many below average parts. But having Trent Williams makes everybody elses job easier. And Polumbus' improvement was legitimate to a degree.

The receivers deserve a lot of criticism for some of the hits Griffin took this year though. A lot of weak routes, getting physically dominated, and at times, outright laziness. All of those factors will force a quarterback to hold the ball.

And other times, RG3 just didn't see the play developing as it was practiced.

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I will concede that the offensive line seemed to do fairly well with the zone blocking schemes for running plays, but I saw a lot of horrid plays on that right side of the line during passing plays.

This article still doesn't excuse the fact that this OL needs major upgrades.

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[quote=FRPLG;1055506]I think he might fit better on the inside stuff too.[/quote]

I always thought Alfmo was a better inside runner anyway. Let Helu (or another small speedy back) take those outside toss plays. Alfmo is a bruiser he needs to keep the majority of his plays north-south.

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Alfmo is just a good runner. Is he going to sprint away from people on a toss play? Nope.

But he is going to get bunches of yards on a well blocked play, inside or outside, because of his vision and power. For the same reason, he gets yards - inside or outside - that no other back on the team gets when the blocking breaks down. In addition, he is much better about setting up would-be tacklers for his blockers than anyone else on the team. Helu sometimes has vision problems getting what exists. I am not saying Helu is a bad and he has improved from year 1 to now. From the beginning, however, Alfmo has had as good or better vision than Helu has now. (To be clear, I LIKE Helu as the complimentary back - he does have the extra gear Alfmo doesn't).

Let Alfmo exploit the field ... he can run inside or outside for substantial yards. His vision and cut-back ability make him a threat for "chunk" runs everytime he goes outside (Dallas, December, 2012 anyone?). If he is reduced to a predictable inside runner, it is an unnecessary limitation that would make him less effective overall.

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helu's replaceable. he's fine, but you can find another guy like him pretty easily. alfmo, on the other hand...

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[quote=JoeRedskin;1055650]Alfmo is just a good runner. Is he going to sprint away from people on a toss play? Nope.

But he is going to get bunches of yards on a well blocked play, inside or outside, because of his vision and power. For the same reason, he gets yards - inside or outside - that no other back on the team gets when the blocking breaks down. In addition, he is much better about setting up would-be tacklers for his blockers than anyone else on the team. Helu sometimes has vision problems getting what exists. I am not saying Helu is a bad and he has improved from year 1 to now. From the beginning, however, Alfmo has had as good or better vision than Helu has now. (To be clear, I LIKE Helu as the complimentary back - he does have the extra gear Alfmo doesn't).

Let Alfmo exploit the field ... he can run inside or outside for substantial yards. His vision and cut-back ability make him a threat for "chunk" runs everytime he goes outside (Dallas, December, 2012 anyone?). If he is reduced to a predictable inside runner, it is an unnecessary limitation that would make him less effective overall.[/quote]
Just don't give Alfmo the ball at the goal line. Well at least not if JR has him on his fantasy team!

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We'll I didn't mean as a straight inside banger. I meant that his lack of elite speed might be mitigated more on inside zone plays where getting outside quickly to make a cut back isn't necessary. Alfs obviously a top tier type back in any type of system where he gets presented with cut backs that he can exploit with his vision and ability to cut and go.

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[quote=That Guy;1055723]helu's replaceable. he's fine, but you can find another guy like him pretty easily. alfmo, on the other hand...[/quote]

I'd just like to see Helu break an arm tackle. He can shift and make people miss, but the second someone has a hand on him, he goes down like a ton of bricks.