D-Line.
 

I see a lot of people are interested in bolstering our defensive line. Going into the season we have Wynn - Griffen - (noble/salava'e rotation) - Daniels. This line isn't star-studded by any means. Griffen played amazing ball last year, I doubt he can keep that up but I hope so. Wynn is constantly solid. Noble/Salavae'a did a great job in my opinion. Always a fresh person in there and played hard. Daniels we haven't seen, but I think he could be good.

We don't have any top tier pass rushers there, but I'm willing to say we don't need any. Not only are great DEs some of the most expensive players to pay, they are some of the hardest to find consistantly in the draft. Williams brings pressure from everywhere and anywhere. With the blitzers we have in Springs, Arringon, Taylor, Bowen, and Washington is it really necessary to be able to creat havoc with our front four? Not only that, do you want to see us rushing only four and dropping back into coverage?

Personally, I love the jaillbreak blitzes Williams runs. They're exciting, they're fun to watch, and they can force other teams into mistakes. While I wouldn't mind having a stud on the defensive line, I don't feel it's worth the high draft pick and/or the salary one would command. We have a great blitzing team as is now. The line in it's current form seems to do their job of occupying blockers and playing pretty damn solid against the run. I think we have much bigger needs to spend our cash on!

Re: D-Line.
 

I completely agree with that. I loved the way our D-Line played last year.

Re: D-Line.
 

I have been saying that since day 1, we pressured the QB pretty good last season we should be even better this year if Lavar is everything a lot of people say he is. No need for a D-end not in the first rd any way, I am always for upgrading but our needs early in the draft lie else where.

Re: D-Line.
 

well the thing is if you have Harris then you'd need a pass-rushing DE right? Because man to man coverage is not his strength so you'd probably need the safety helping him out. Whereas last year Smoot could man cover and Bowen, Lott, whoever could come on the safety blitz...but then someone like Rolle or PacMan probably eliminates or lessens the need for a pass-rushing DE

I don't know, ask Ramseyfan. He articulates this better than I do

Re: D-Line.
 

I loved how the line played last season, but I am afriad of injuries and I want some quality depth to go along with the others on that line. A player Like hovan, who has been passed over by many teams may be a cheap awesome pick up in our system, if he could be motivated to greatness but I don't want us to overpay for anyone.

Re: D-Line.
 

Well - with a blitzing scheme there's often a lot less time that a CB has to cover, but Harris is a huge downgrade from Smoot, no matter what anyone says! That's why I feel our defense could drop out of the top 10 this year.

Re: D-Line.
 

You're SO NOT a fan Daseal. :)

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Well - with a blitzing scheme there's often a lot less time that a CB has to cover, but Harris is a huge downgrade from Smoot, no matter what anyone says! That's why I feel our defense could drop out of the top 10 this year.[/QUOTE]


I disagree, Harris when given the opportunity last year was almost alway's all over his man, now I understand he was drawing the 3rd reciever but I have a lot of confidence in his ability to cover 1 on 1, and remember we have Wilds as a backup plan if he does fail, didn't Wilds do a fantastic job on arguably the best reciever in the game 1 on 1, Moss? Not to mention help may be on the way in this years draft. Harris is a playmaker he did it on special teams as well, he has as much physical ability as Smoot if not more, and from an interview I saw with him he stated that he wasen't a 100% last year because of his knee surgery but he is now, I think he will make everyone forget about Smoot in a hurry.

Re: D-Line.
 

I'm down for drafting a CB at #1, even though I'd prefer Williams.

Re: D-Line.
 

everyone prefers williams but he won't be avialable by our pick and thats a fact

Re: D-Line.
 

We might get surprised. It could be the normal rhetoric that teams spew when they are trying to trick other teams into trading their picks away.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]everyone prefers williams but he won't be avialable by our pick and thats a fact[/QUOTE]


Fact? I don't know about that, you may be right DHS but I wouldn't say it's a lock by no means, personally I think V. Jackson will be better over all, but I can't deny that I feel Williams will be a tremendous asset in the red zone, he has the best hands in college, and maybe in the NFL once he arrives.

Re: D-Line.
 

we will see my friends

Re: D-Line.
 

Don't forget that in nickel situations we can always bring in Clemons and Warner - two guys who have some pass rush ability.

Re: D-Line.
 

I love our front four on D, but I still think we need a pure pass rushing end. This could only help our D and allow for more disguised coverages and we wouldn't have to blitz DB's all the time. Cornelius can bring pressure from the middle, but we need a DE with some ability to get to the QB. Wynn is getting old and there is a big ? with Daniels. IMO we should take an end in the 3rd...just my thoughts. Look what Kearse did with the eagles...the guys that really disrupted our offense were Kearse, Brown (Alex), Smith and so on. A pass rushing DE can make a HUGE difference.

Re: D-Line.
 

I think Williams WILL be available. I see MN still going DJ. Chicago will go Edwards. Unless there's a trade, I see us getting Williams, or at least a shot at him.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Well - with a blitzing scheme there's often a lot less time that a CB has to cover, but Harris is a huge downgrade from Smoot, no matter what anyone says! That's why I feel our defense could drop out of the top 10 this year.[/QUOTE]

By reading what you wrote it makes me believe that you think Smoot was the main reason we were one of the top Defenses in the league??? You think he is worth 7 spots statiscally...NO WAY.

Also, what do you think people were saying when we let go of Champ and Fred "Country" Smoot had to fill his shoes?? I bet it wasn't pretty. I say we will be solid. For sure top 10.

Dont sleep on Lavar making a difference, and dont' sleep on a second year Sean Taylor, and don't sleep on Bowen coming back!

Re: D-Line.
 

Last year I must say, my man Greg Williams showed me many things. Yea, I loved the Jail break stuff too! He showed he could develope a killer No-Name D. He and his D kept us in every game. Most of all, he showed me he knows what he's doing. I believe in him enough to make the right moves

[QUOTE=Daseal]I see a lot of people are interested in bolstering our defensive line. Going into the season we have Wynn - Griffen - (noble/salava'e rotation) - Daniels. This line isn't star-studded by any means. Griffen played amazing ball last year, I doubt he can keep that up but I hope so. Wynn is constantly solid. Noble/Salavae'a did a great job in my opinion. Always a fresh person in there and played hard. Daniels we haven't seen, but I think he could be good.

We don't have any top tier pass rushers there, but I'm willing to say we don't need any. Not only are great DEs some of the most expensive players to pay, they are some of the hardest to find consistantly in the draft. Williams brings pressure from everywhere and anywhere. With the blitzers we have in Springs, Arringon, Taylor, Bowen, and Washington is it really necessary to be able to creat havoc with our front four? Not only that, do you want to see us rushing only four and dropping back into coverage?

Personally, I love the jaillbreak blitzes Williams runs. They're exciting, they're fun to watch, and they can force other teams into mistakes. While I wouldn't mind having a stud on the defensive line, I don't feel it's worth the high draft pick and/or the salary one would command. We have a great blitzing team as is now. The line in it's current form seems to do their job of occupying blockers and playing pretty damn solid against the run. I think we have much bigger needs to spend our cash on![/QUOTE]

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Last year I must say, my man Greg Williams showed me many things. Yea, I loved the Jail break stuff too! He showed he could develope a killer No-Name D. He and his D kept us in every game. Most of all, he showed me he knows what he's doing. I believe in him enough to make the right moves[/QUOTE]


I agree! I said it before and I will say it again, Greg Williams can make chicken salad out of chicken s*%#!

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Last year I must say, my man Greg Williams showed me many things. Yea, I loved the Jail break stuff too! He showed he could develope a killer No-Name D. He and his D kept us in every game. Most of all, he showed me he knows what he's doing. I believe in him enough to make the right moves[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the board Hog1

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Fact? I don't know about that, you may be right DHS but I wouldn't say it's a lock by no means, personally I think V. Jackson will be better over all, but I can't deny that I feel Williams will be a tremendous asset in the red zone, he has the best hands in college, and maybe in the NFL once he arrives.[/QUOTE]


I have seen a few people moving Jackson to TE which wouldn't be suprising with his size.

Re: D-Line.
 

[quote]By reading what you wrote it makes me believe that you think Smoot was the main reason we were one of the top Defenses in the league??? You think he is worth 7 spots statiscally...NO WAY.

Also, what do you think people were saying when we let go of Champ and Fred "Country" Smoot had to fill his shoes?? I bet it wasn't pretty. I say we will be solid. For sure top 10.

Dont sleep on Lavar making a difference, and dont' sleep on a second year Sean Taylor, and don't sleep on Bowen coming back![/quote]

That's right, I think Smoot coupled with a few more factors will drop our defense. First of all, defensive rankings are ranked on total yards. I expect our offense to produce at least a bit more this year. That means that the opposing team will have longer fields to drive. Which means they will have a chance to accumulate more yards.

Second of all, when Champ left we brought in a guy who had a great season. I feel Springs and Griffen MAY have had career seasons. I don't know if they can replicate the same type of intensity. Be it through injury, or not having the drive. Both of those players had that problem where they were before. I also feel that if we start Bowen full time we're going to be opposed in coverage a lot. The only thing Bowen's good for is knocking Trung out in practice.

I feel our defense will slip, those are just some possible reasons why. Let's not forget that our friend LaVar isn't exactly the most fundamental player ever. So he's been known to overrun a play or a dozen in a game.

We have questionmarks at CB, MLB, RDE, and to a lesser extent, SS. While I think Greg Williams (and our D coordinator/dline coach who never gets credit, Blache) have done an amazing job, I feel that our defense WILL slip a bit and could be out of the top 10.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can definitely see it happening.

So no - it's not just Smoot. But he's a big part of it.

Re: D-Line.
 

well the past Greg williams defense hasn't fell yet. Thats the bills who are #2 in the league, so I think we might even get better.

Re: D-Line.
 

That could certainly happen, diehard. I'm just saying I think they'll fall off. Possibly out of the top 10, I think we'll have a pretty good and exciting defense. We may be ranked lower but get more turnovers/scores.

Re: D-Line.
 

You have to think, this is long term.
Springs and Harris are old...
in order to build we need to draft to fill what our potential needs will be
a year or 2 from now. Thats how the Eagles do it.

Re: D-Line.
 

[quote]I have seen a few people moving Jackson to TE which wouldn't be suprising with his size.[/quote]

Many people say the same thing about Mike Williams. That's why he went to USC over FLorida. Florida wanted him to be a TE.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal] That means that the opposing team will have longer fields to drive. Which means they will have a chance to accumulate more yards.
[/QUOTE]


Or conversely and more likely our D will force a lot of three and outs, or take aways and score and our offense will have better success on their drives. I see no reason why our D would drop off. Look who'll be coming back.

Re: D-Line.
 

diehardskin:

Look I think Greg Williams is an outstanding DC, but your argument that the Bills had the #2 defense last year argues against Williams being the reason they are great.

Williams left the Bills and the defense there got better. They weren't #2 while he was there! So somehow, the defense got a lot better when he left town. That's not much of an endorsement for him as "Defensive Coordinator of the Year".

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]diehardskin:

Look I think Greg Williams is an outstanding DC, but your argument that the Bills had the #2 defense last year argues against Williams being the reason they are great.

Williams left the Bills and the defense there got better. They weren't #2 while he was there! So somehow, the defense got a lot better when he left town. That's not much of an endorsement for him as "Defensive Coordinator of the Year".[/QUOTE]


I have to disagree SC, the Bills were able to keep and build upon the foundation that Williams left, there's no denying that he was the catalist behind their core philosophy on defense, in fact I believe it is a tell that we will be even better on D this year with our players having a year under their belts under Williams.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=PSUskinsfan11]I have seen a few people moving Jackson to TE which wouldn't be suprising with his size.[/QUOTE]


Yea as Daseal stated gm's are speculating where to play either Williams, or Jackson, they are not used to seeing men of their size playing WR, I believe these 2 will be the culmination of a trend we are starting to see in the NFL of the big reciever, they will be the hybrids of the new era. I saw both of their combine workouts and Jackson runs better than Williams, I was very impressed for a man of his size.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I have to disagree SC, the Bills were able to keep and build upon the foundation that Williams left, there's no denying that he was the catalist behind their core philosophy on defense, in fact I believe it is a tell that we will be even better on D this year with our players having a year under their belts under Williams.[/QUOTE]

Didn't Williams d-coordinator protoge say there in Buffalo? I remember Williams trying to get his guy to come with him but couldn't do it. I believe that Buffalo has stayed with Williams defense that was taught to a defensive coordinator that remains.
Williams has taken a Redskins defense that made me throw things at my TV and turned them into one of the best in the league in one season (even while losing "the best" cornerback to Denver and half the starting defense to injury.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Well - with a blitzing scheme there's often a lot less time that a CB has to cover, but Harris is a huge downgrade from Smoot, no matter what anyone says! That's why I feel our defense could drop out of the top 10 this year.[/QUOTE]

I know we are going to be in the top 10 as long as we don't get as many injuries as last year and i remember that harris and wilds were in there against moss and we did fine! i know we will hurt w/o smoot but the people we get back from injuries cancels that out. I would rather have bowen arrington barrow and daniels in there rather than what we had this year with smoot and pierce. them leaving WILL NOT push us out of the top ten i will make any sort of bet w/ u that we will be in the top 10, friendly or money $$

:twocents:

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I see a lot of people are interested in bolstering our defensive line. Going into the season we have Wynn - Griffen - (noble/salava'e rotation) - Daniels. This line isn't star-studded by any means. Griffen played amazing ball last year, I doubt he can keep that up but I hope so. Wynn is constantly solid. Noble/Salavae'a did a great job in my opinion. Always a fresh person in there and played hard. Daniels we haven't seen, but I think he could be good.

We don't have any top tier pass rushers there, but I'm willing to say we don't need any. Not only are great DEs some of the most expensive players to pay, they are some of the hardest to find consistantly in the draft. Williams brings pressure from everywhere and anywhere. With the blitzers we have in Springs, Arringon, Taylor, Bowen, and Washington is it really necessary to be able to creat havoc with our front four? Not only that, do you want to see us rushing only four and dropping back into coverage?

Personally, I love the jaillbreak blitzes Williams runs. They're exciting, they're fun to watch, and they can force other teams into mistakes. While I wouldn't mind having a stud on the defensive line, I don't feel it's worth the high draft pick and/or the salary one would command. We have a great blitzing team as is now. The line in it's current form seems to do their job of occupying blockers and playing pretty damn solid against the run. I think we have much bigger needs to spend our cash on![/QUOTE]


wow, i always see a dumb post, and its you, lol

DE is a huge peice of the D puzzle we are missing, and should be addressed. i love the blitzing style of williams myself, but having a pressure front four makes us #1 D in the league hands down. we need a DE speed rusher w/o using lbs... its common sense deutsche.... i mean daseal

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]wow, i always see a dumb post, and its you, lol

DE is a huge peice of the D puzzle we are missing, and should be addressed. i love the blitzing style of williams myself, but having a pressure front four makes us #1 D in the league hands down. we need a DE speed rusher w/o using lbs... its common sense deutsche.... i mean daseal[/QUOTE]

Tell it like it is my brother!

We need a better line on Defense and that would componsate for smoots leaving.

I wanted brown and i am not gonna say i didn't just because damn champ got him to go to Denver. i hate denver. outside our division it goes denver minnosota then the ravens.

Re: D-Line.
 

[quote]DE is a huge peice of the D puzzle we are missing, and should be addressed. i love the blitzing style of williams myself, but having a pressure front four makes us #1 D in the league hands down. we need a DE speed rusher w/o using lbs... its common sense deutsche.... i mean daseal[/quote]

I'm glad you could make it personal, cock.

Every team has one good Dline player - ours is Griffen. Chargers made it far without shit besides Jamal Williams, Colts have no one but Freeney, Steelers - the #1 defense have Chris Hoke as their best Dline player.

However, the Saints have Charles Grant and Darren Howard, Carolina has Kris Jenkins and Julius Peppers (Kris was hurt part of the year), Marcus Stroud and John Henderson played very well for the Jags, Chicago has Ogun and Alex Brown with Tommy Harris in the middle. Boy did those lines really put them right in the thick of the playoffs!

Defensive line and passrushing means nothing. If the defensive line stops the run, Williams system caters to letting the linebackers, and DB's blitz.

If you don't like my opinion, don't read my fucking posts. I'm sorry I don't have unrelenting optomism like the rest of you, but I haven't once brought a personal attack onto someone I disagree with. This site is for speculation, and until I'm proven wrong, I'm just as right as anyone as far as next season concerned. In closing, fuck off.

Re: D-Line.
 

I wish I had paid attention to this thread earlier tonight, hopefully this isn't going to turn into another ugly thread that we have to lock

Look, it's one thing to disagree with Daseal. We've all done it at one point or another. But there's no need to resort to making it personal and calling him names.

And Daseal, I can completely understand why you got frustrated and responded the way you did but next time (and this applies to everyone) try to just swallow your pride and "walk away" Let the moderators take care of things when they start to get ugly. That's why we're here.

Re: D-Line.
 

I've taken a lot of swipes from some of the newer members who I guess don't like my view on the skins. I've been able to contain myself up until the 10 hour homework binge I call Tuesday. I shouldn't have lashed out as such, but I'm all for playful kidding and I get it a lot. That's fine. It totally seperate when someone (who rarely has anything constructive to actually add) comes in and makes comments which are personal and have no bearing on the board - I'll only tolerate so much of it without responding. Either way - this is the last I'll say on the topic.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]wow, i always see a dumb post, and its you, lol

DE is a huge peice of the D puzzle we are missing, and should be addressed. i love the blitzing style of williams myself, but having a pressure front four makes us #1 D in the league hands down. we need a DE speed rusher w/o using lbs... its common sense deutsche.... i mean daseal[/QUOTE]


We didn't need it last year and with Arrington back we should be better, the only reason we didn't finish #1 is because our offense left our defense on the field for 2/3rd's of every game, I will guarentee you Williams will pressure and sack the QB more than most teams this upcoming season with out a big name pass rusher, I would like you to name the bonified pass rusher coming out of college that will be lets say just a 10 sack player? Drafting a DE doesn't mean he will dominate opposing tackles.

Common sense? How did the Giants in there SB years pressure the QB? With LB's. How do the Patriots who have won 3 of the last 4 SB's pressure the QB? Seymour is their big time DE, and he has totaled 21 sacks in 4 years not exactly a sack machine.

There are many defensive schemes, and the fact is there are very few dominating DE's, so to design a defense to pressure the QB with our LB's and safeties is the smart thing to do, it is much more confusing for the QB.

Anyone would like a big time DE, but unless your saying that either Merriman or Arasmus Jones are big time DE's [because most say they are undersized to be considered true DE's] then they will be used as pass rushing specialists [because we don't want them getting blown off the ball on running plays], where they use their speed not their power, and if that's the case there isn't much difference between our LB's who all are probably faster than either 1 of the 2.

So how do you address the DE problem?

I know Williams addresses it with our LB's and safeties.

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Yea as Daseal stated gm's are speculating where to play either Williams, or Jackson, they are not used to seeing men of their size playing WR, I believe these 2 will be the culmination of a trend we are starting to see in the NFL of the big reciever, they will be the hybrids of the new era. I saw both of their combine workouts and Jackson runs better than Williams, I was very impressed for a man of his size.[/QUOTE]

I agree that we should take a look at V. Jackson, but my fear is that he will be gone by the time we get to pick again after the first round. Jackson had a really good combine workout and not just his 40 time either. I think that he would be a great redzone threat. Also having that size he probably is not that bad at making downfield blocks too!!

Re: D-Line.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I've taken a lot of swipes from some of the newer members who I guess don't like my view on the skins. I've been able to contain myself up until the 10 hour homework binge I call Tuesday. I shouldn't have lashed out as such, but I'm all for playful kidding and I get it a lot. That's fine. It totally seperate when someone (who rarely has anything constructive to actually add) comes in and makes comments which are personal and have no bearing on the board - I'll only tolerate so much of it without responding. Either way - this is the last I'll say on the topic.[/QUOTE]
i am a new comer and i can't speak for all of us but i respect your opinions and if you feel offended you can tell me i just think u like smoot a little too much but i read all of your threads that i see which i don't do for everyone