How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

This may seem like a stupid question but watching TV this morning they were talking about Rex Ryan and how he is most likely going to get fired even though he is well respected and for the last two games the Jets have been playing their hearts out...

How much through NFL history has it been proven that firing a coach, the team was better off? In my life I've seen it make no difference in places like Oakland, St. Louis, Jacksonville, and our own Redskins are probably one of the best examples.

I realize that the Head Coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens with the football team, and when the teams starts sucking, and on a losing streak - he ultimately pays the price. But do you think that is fair? For the sake of argument lets look at the Redskins:

Coach after coach and we basically are no better. This year we already have a lost season. But is it really Jay Gruden's fault that we have problems at QB, Defense, Special teams? I mean he isn't the one making plays, or throwing the interceptions, or letting the other team run the kickoff back..

I guess i'm just looking for examples where firing the coach was absolutely the right move for the franchise and it resulted in wins, playoffs, etc....

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

I mean, throughout NFL history you can find examples where finding a better coach resulted in a better team, not just in victories, but in championships. Would we have any SB trophies if we never hired Joe Gibbs? Given teams like the Lions, Eagles, Browns, have a long history in this league without having a single trophy proves that anything is possible. I don't know that hitting reset is the right move for this franchise, but pretty much every SB winning team in history had to hire the right coach to get there.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

It can, but we're a little early to be writing off Jay Gruden

I mean I'm not impressed and I have a bad feeling he'll tank like all the other coaches that weren't named Gibbs or Allen, but I say we need to give him at least 2 more seasons before we write him off, he may surprise.

Plus changing coaches often results in a rebuilding period, and I'm tired of constantly rebuilding.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

This might give you a take on rushing to judgement .


"When Parcells took over in 1983, the New York Giants were a team that had posted just one winning season in the previous ten years. In his first year, he made a controversial decision to bench Phil Simms in favor of Scott Brunner. The result was a disastrous 3–12–1 season during which the Giants surreptitiously offered Parcells' job to University of Miami head coach Howard Schnellenberger after a week 14 loss; however, Schnellenberger declined, and Parcells remained as head coach.[22]"


........so how do you think it turned out ?

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1089906]It can, but we're a little early to be writing off Jay Gruden

I mean I'm not impressed and I have a bad feeling he'll tank like all the other coaches that weren't named Gibbs or Allen, but I say we need to give him at least 2 more seasons before we write him off, he may surprise.

Plus changing coaches often results in a rebuilding period, and I'm tired of constantly rebuilding.[/quote]

Two more seasons? NFW! I'm getting too old for that kind of patience. I'd prefer to see Dan Snyder get so tired of losing that he threatens to fire [U]everybody[/U]. We fans need Snyder to start hating losing enough not to put up with it anymore.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Jay Gruden just needs a better D-Coordinator and a better O-Line Coach. Russ Grimm is unemployed. lol

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Head coach firings are at best a crap shoot. One of the more memorable in my mind is when Haslett was fired in New Orleans & Sean Payton took over and finished 1st in the division. To be fair to Haslett though, his record during his last year (3-13) was truly impacted by distractions and relocations of Hurricane Katrina.

Extending this discussion to Jay Gruden - I hope the team stays the course with him for now.

I'm old enough to remember Gibbs taking over and starting off 0-5. Jay is still a young head coach and has demonstrated enough at other levels to be given time to mature in his new position.

I don't like the losing right now, but the head coach deserves this year and next before there is any talk of dismissing him.

Character & Integrity are not tested until your face dire situations. Jay is in the middle of a dire situation and while it's taking a toll on him, I believe he has remained professional, honest and strong willed thus far. All in all, the traits of leadership are defined in more than just wins. It's also how you handle and deal with a loss.

I like what I've seen so far from him. He doesn't dodge the tough questions and I really feel that he will figure this out.

Having a better roster will help, but that will take another year.

Hail!

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

In our case the lack of FO failed with Spurrier and Zorn. I think Gruden will pan out, he needs to be given a chance. The only thing I question are keeping Haslett and Foerster as coaches.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1089919]Jay Gruden just needs a better D-Coordinator and a better O-Line Coach. Russ Grimm is unemployed. lol[/quote]

Couldn't agree more!!

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

For a team like the Redskins, I feel like a coaching change generally won't help since the problems seem to be beyond coaching.

That said, I like Gruden, and perhaps he'll be the one to rise above the dysfunction and produce a winner. Hope springs eternal, right? I just hope Snyder doesn't pull a Snyder and fire Gruden after one or two seasons. Let him stay for a minimum of four. He's a proven winner and needs to be given time.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

If you're bad enough to get your coach fired during the season, chances are it's not going to help. If anything it just fans the flames of the disaster at hand.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

I have a friend who was head of an incredibly large government agency. He is famous for firing people at the highest levels for not living up to the needs of the job. It was amazingly effective at getting the people below the 'firee' motivated. I remember him once telling someone "the hardest thing I have to do is fire someone for merely being very good". I think Gruden needs to fire someone, not be fired. Haslett is the obvious choice, in my opinion, since he had no control over his being there in the first place.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

All of this talk about firing coaches is making me Horny for Zorny.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

The best head coaching hirings are always coaches who were coordinators first or head coaches who were good but had never won a SB......

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Talking about firing Gruden at this point is absurd, really.

It's his first year. He lost his starting QB. The backup turned out to be a turnover machine. The team has been decimated by injuries, and had many holes to begin with.

I'm on board with letting Haslett go though. I never understood why we kept him anyway.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Considering how the offense has offered little to no help all season for the D, I think they've gotten the job done for the most part. I think we were 10th overall coming into today.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Shannahan is a terrible talent scout. Shannahan is awful. That being said I think Gruden will do well. Gibbs lost his first 5 games. Shannahan's talent evaluation skills are like the juice at the bottom of the garbage can.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1089894]This may seem like a stupid question but watching TV this morning they were talking about Rex Ryan and how he is most likely going to get fired even though he is well respected and for the last two games the Jets have been playing their hearts out...

How much through NFL history has it been proven that firing a coach, the team was better off? In my life I've seen it make no difference in places like Oakland, St. Louis, Jacksonville, and our own Redskins are probably one of the best examples.

I realize that the Head Coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens with the football team, and when the teams starts sucking, and on a losing streak - he ultimately pays the price. But do you think that is fair? For the sake of argument lets look at the Redskins:

Coach after coach and we basically are no better. This year we already have a lost season. But is it really Jay Gruden's fault that we have problems at QB, Defense, Special teams? I mean he isn't the one making plays, or throwing the interceptions, or letting the other team run the kickoff back..

I guess i'm just looking for examples where firing the coach was absolutely the right move for the franchise and it resulted in wins, playoffs, etc....[/quote]


Cousins is just a big ole softie. Blame him.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Lotus;1089942]All of this talk about firing coaches is making me Horny for Zorny.[/quote]

ARE YOU OKAY!?!!?11?!!
[YT]rymho_czL2I[/YT]

[quote=WillH;1090213]Talking about firing Gruden at this point is absurd, really.

It's his first year. He lost his starting QB. The backup turned out to be a turnover machine. The team has been decimated by injuries, and had many holes to begin with.

I'm on board with letting Haslett go though. I never understood why we kept him anyway.[/quote]

I was surprised to learn that we were 10th in the league in total defense. Still at this rate I long for the days of Greg Blache's ultra bland defense. A scheme that was bland that Lovie Smith's Tampa 2 looked like Rex Ryan's scheme by comparison.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1090218]Considering how the offense has offered little to no help all season for the D, I think they've gotten the job done for the most part. I think we were 10th overall coming into today.[/quote]


You aren't looking at the stats that count. Never understood why people give a shit about defensive ranking when it comes to yards. (which we rank 7th btw)

What does count on defensive stats is ppg allowed, which we are 24th with 26.1.


I do agree with you that our offense isn't helping a single bit. Not when you have a QB that turned the ball over 10+ times the past few games.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

In season firings almost never help. Snyder busted that move in 2000 (the Fortune .500 team), firing Norv Turner when the team record stood at 7-6. They were destroyed the next two games, and eliminated from playoff contention before the season finale.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1090324]In season firings almost never help. Snyder busted that move in 2000 (the Fortune .500 team), firing Norv Turner when the team record stood at 7-6. They were destroyed the next two games, and eliminated from playoff contention before the season finale.[/quote]

Probably ranks in the top 5 biggest mistakes Snyder has ever made (and that is a crowded field to begin with)

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Turner firing, which should have happened before the season started but Snyder had just been formally approved in July, was largely a Fred Drasner decision. As was the decision to fire Schottenheimer a year later. But what's done is done.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1090362]But what's done is done.[/quote]

Sure, but I've seen no signs that Snyder is a better Owner now than he was back then.

Perhaps a bit more patient, but patience does not equal good

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

I think making a coaching change can help. That said I dont think the churn and burn way the Skins change coaching staffs every 3 or 4 years only makes things worse.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1090366]Sure, but I've seen no signs that Snyder is a better Owner now than he was back then.

Perhaps a bit more patient, but patience does not equal good[/quote]

DS is much better at looking like he's not involved but in reality he's every bit as involved now as he used to be.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1090318]You aren't looking at the stats that count. Never understood why people give a shit about defensive ranking when it comes to yards. (which we rank 7th btw)

What does count on defensive stats is ppg allowed, which we are 24th with 26.1.


I do agree with you that our offense isn't helping a single bit. Not when you have a QB that turned the ball over 10+ times the past few games.[/quote]

The defensive rankings in yards should give people a clue how bad the offense's ineffectiveness is affecting the defense. We're at the bottom in 3rd down conversion and at the bottom in turnover ratio. Due to the turn overs and many 3 and outs, offense don't have to travel far to score on our defense. I'll be curious to see where we rank in time of possession.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1090318]You aren't looking at the stats that count. Never understood why people give a shit about defensive ranking when it comes to yards. (which we rank 7th btw)

What does count on defensive stats is ppg allowed, which we are 24th with 26.1.


I do agree with you that our offense isn't helping a single bit. Not when you have a QB that turned the ball over 10+ times the past few games.[/quote]

Points can be overblown too. I think stats in general are always overused.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=irish;1090372]DS is much better at looking like he's not involved but in reality he's every bit as involved now as he used to be.[/quote]

... and you know this how? If true, fine. Just what to know your basis.

Also, in the past, I think DS's influence over-blown based on (1) statements made by our own site insiders; and (2) Actions taken by other owners that did not receive the press that DS got.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1090406]... and you know this how? If true, fine. Just what to know your basis.

Also, in the past, I think DS's influence over-blown based on (1) statements made by our own site insiders; and (2) Actions taken by other owners that did not receive the press that DS got.[/quote]

My basis is the same as your basis, reading articles and talking to insiders.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1090318]You aren't looking at the stats that count. Never understood why people give a shit about defensive ranking when it comes to yards. (which we rank 7th btw)

What does count on defensive stats is ppg allowed, which we are 24th with 26.1.


I do agree with you that our offense isn't helping a single bit. Not when you have a QB that turned the ball over 10+ times the past few games.[/quote]

If we were 30th in yards you can bet people would give a shit about that stat all day.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=irish;1090413]My basis is the same as your basis, reading articles and talking to insiders.[/quote]

Your basis is imaginary then.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1090318]You aren't looking at the stats that count. Never understood why people give a shit about defensive ranking when it comes to yards. (which we rank 7th btw)

What does count on defensive stats is ppg allowed, which we are 24th with 26.1.


I do agree with you that our offense isn't helping a single bit. Not when you have a QB that turned the ball over 10+ times the past few games.[/quote]

You make a good point, but I think you got to look at starting field position and the fact Cousins lead the league in INT thrown...you got to mix in the fact special teams and a turnover prone offense has had in the points allowed stat. Points allowed is more of a team stat than the specific yards allowed which tends to be move defense only. But still points allowed needs to be taken into consideration when looking at the big picture with Defense...A stat like avg yards per pass attempt and average rush yards against is another....I think overall we are average, but we handle the running game much better than passing game which I attribute to not enough pressure and very poor coverage schemes.


Anther thing with defense, are we forcing enough turnovers? This year I think its been below average, but D Hall out, I thought it would be.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Look at the 49ers they didn't have a winning season for 10 straight years with Nolan, Erickson and Singletary. Harbaugh gets hired when Singletary is fired going 6-10 in 2011. The very next year Harbaugh goes 13-3 with basically the same personnel that Singletary had.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1090447]Look at the 49ers they didn't have a winning season for 10 straight years with Nolan, Erickson and Singletary. Harbaugh gets hired when Singletary is fired going 6-10 in 2011. The very next year Harbaugh goes 13-3 with basically the same personnel that Singletary had.[/quote]


So, Singletary should get credit for that team then not Harbaugh ?

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Our D is not as bad as some make it out to be nor as good as its yardage stats say it is. It has, at various times, forced important 3 & outs only to have the offense return the favor. It has held opposing offenses w/out a TD after they were given a short field by our offense and/or ST. At the same time, they haven't flipped the field with TO's and have given up too many "explosive plays" leading to points.

Bottom line, other than the Giants game, and the 1st half v. Seattle, they have showed up to play but have been consistently put in bad situations by the O and ST.

Personally, if they got a few more TO's, I would say that the D is good enough (w/ or w/o Rak).

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Can´t give up that many yards in case the opponent get´s the ball on your 40 all the time.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1090447]Look at the 49ers they didn't have a winning season for 10 straight years with Nolan, Erickson and Singletary. Harbaugh gets hired when Singletary is fired going 6-10 in 2011. The very next year Harbaugh goes 13-3 with basically the same personnel that Singletary had.[/quote]

Think we're talking about teams turning it around during the same season in which the HC is fired.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1090447]Look at the 49ers they didn't have a winning season for 10 straight years with Nolan, Erickson and Singletary. Harbaugh gets hired when Singletary is fired going 6-10 in 2011. The very next year Harbaugh goes 13-3 with basically the same personnel that Singletary had.[/quote]

Also Reid going into KC. There's probably more examples too.

Re: How often does firing an NFL coach make things better?
 

Im more excited that Fraida Feltcher is pregnant than this shit show of a season.