what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

let me begin by saying that until today I was a lifelong resdkins fan. After Gibbs left the first time, I moved from my hometown of washington d.c. and moved to CA to attend college. While here, I stood by my team and suffered in silence through the norv turner(good luck with him Oakland b/c that dog doesn't hunt!) and terry robiskie (who?!) era. I even stood behind them as the "ballcoach" and Dan Snyder made every boneheaded, kid at a candystore, ruin our salary cap situation, signing that they possibly could. (you remember when Dan Wilkinson, Dana Stubblefield, Deion Sanders, Jeff George and any other under-achieving, over-rated, past his prime bum that came along were all hailed as the signings that would lead us back to the promised land). Well in a way, they did lead us back to the promised land; first round draft picks and our old master Joe Gibbs back as head coach. I had really hoped this would be the start of a second golden era for my beloved skins. I couldn't have been more wrong. In consecutive years, my hopes have been dashed by a drafting pattern that only makes sense if we're a soccer team that hopes to force a 0-0 tie every week and have the game come down to penalty kicks. Last year, we miss out (err...ignore) on [b][i][u]the single best tight end to come out of college since Kieth Jackson[/u][/i][/b] to take an alcoholic malcontent safety who apparently wants a new deal already (although I'm not sure if he's holding out on the District Attorney or Joe Gibbs, who must have been drunk himself when he passed up on Winslow) in spite of the fact that he's only had one decent season in this league. [i]Hey Taylor, the only safety worth holding out is a young Ronnie Lott. When you win three superbowls like him, you can hold out but until then, bring your drunk, crying, holding out butt to practice and shut the hell up and play.[/i] As if that indignity wasn't enough, I had to stare at my computer today and see us pass on the best wide receiver in the draft so that we could take another cover corner. Gee, I seem to remember us having the best cover corner in the league....Oh that's right, we traded him (because we didn't want to give him what we will end up paying for the unproven Rogers) so that we could get an overpriced and over paid speed back in Clinton Portis and make him the feature back in Gibbs' signature [b]power running game. [/b]Does the term square peg in a round hole ring a bell? Then we give up draft picks and major money for Laverneus Coles, who was less efective last year (in spite of his [b]blazing speed[/b]) than a condom with a perforated tip. In spite of that, and Arrington's injury, we still had the best defense in the league last year but one of the worst offenses. So it stands to reason that this year we would use the great luxury of two first round picks on skill players to compliment our "quarterback of the future" P-Ram right? Wrong. We allowed Fred Smoot to walk w/no compensation and instead decide to "strengthen" our secondary with another unproven rookie (who by the way will demand as much if not [i]more[/i] money than smoot or bailey in two years, if he does prove to be as effective as either of them, which is [b][i][u]highly unlikely[/u][/i][/b]) instead of helping our anemic and emaciated offense with a [b]franchise caliber wide out like Mike Williams![/b] And I don't give a damn about his 40 time. The 40 time is one of the most over-rated stats in the world. Joey Galloway and Terry Glenn both ran impressive 40's and where are they now? By the way, does anyone remember Michael Irvin's time in the 40 yard dash? I don't. But I do remember him jumping over Darrell Green and killing us on comeback and deep post routes during the last cowboy golden era. What about Chris Carter, Jerry Rice and Art Monk? Does anyone remember or care about what they ran in the 40 yard dash? And besides, I don't need to outrun you if I can impale you with a stiff arm and run you over. All of those guys are hall of fame wide outs who didn't posess anything close to the size, strength and good hands combination that Williams does. And when was the last time a "physical speed corner" like Carlos Rogers could cover any of them. Never. And remember,Darrell Green ran [b][i]the fastest 100 yard dash time in the world [/i][/b]the year he was drafted and he could never win the match up with super physical receivers like Irvin and Carter. And Joe Gibbs doesn't throw the ball deep that often anyway. [b]I went to a lot of SC games and Mike Williams is the best red-zone, possession touchdown making receiver I have seen since Michael Irvin and he will be much better thant Irvin.[/b] Forget his speed. He's a football player. Almost every corner in the speedy PAC-10 ran a better 40 than Mike Williams and it didn't stop him from torching them for two touchdowns per week. No 175 lb corner or 200 lb safety in this league can stop Mike Williams going up for a ball over the middle or in the red zone. And no linbacker in this league has the feet and lateral quickness to cover him either. He's an unsolvable match up problem every week for the next 12 years and we missed out. If the NFL were as about speed as they say, we'd be recruiting wide outs from track teams and not footbal programs. The position is wide receiver. Not wide track star or wide 4x100 relay team runner. I know this. You all know this. The only people who dont' seem to know this are Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs. We could and should be going into this season with Kellen Winslow Jr. and Mike Williams on offense (and take pride in having the two biggest offensive match up problems in this league on the same side of the football) while Lavar Arrington and Champ Bailey or Fred Smoot anchors what is still one of the leagues best defenses. But instead, we are going to be the Miami Dolphins of the NFC East. A lack luster offensive club that in spite of its fast, physical defense, can still be beaten if you put up 13-15 points. And for the record, I don't give a rat's ass how good taylor and rogers turn out to be. If they aren't first ballot hall of famers considered among the best of all time at their positions, their careers will always pale in comparison to those of Willams and Winslow jr; especially if they spent 10 years together on the same team. And all of us redskin fans who wandered through the wilderness waiting for this chance will have to wonder what could have been. I never thought this day would come, when the team I was raised to love, the team that I saw in three super bowl parades would become like an ex girlfriend that I really loved before she broke my heart. I still care about her..but I will never trust her again and nor should I. That is why I am no longer a redskins fan. I will always care about them. But I will never love this team again.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Good riddence, loser! :oink:

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Bye bye then. Mike Williams is good, but will be a tight end sooner than later. Wether this team loses every game or drafts some clown I haven't heard of. I will always bleed burgandy and gold.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

True that.. you never, know,

1) we could make a move tommorow
2) Rogers is a shutdown corner.
3) We make the playoffs next year>?

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

if you let draft picks and free agents turn you from the skins then you were never really a TRUE fan to begin with. winslow jr. ?? you must be on crack.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

As will I always be die hard skins. However, I do agree with a good deal of what you have to say. A few mistakes here and there are part of being a fan of any team in any sport, but the Skins FO have become a laughing stock in the NFL.
When a few days ago they made the trade for the 25th pick no one in the league, the press, or the fans could figure out what they were doing. And now that it is over I still can't figure out what they are doing. Even if you take for granted that we needed another QB and that Campbell is the:
1)QB of the future
2)best QB of the draft
3)the Messiah
How can you say we needed to give up a 1st, 3rd and 4th for him, when I think he would have been there in the 2nd round.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Let me start out by saying that I will always be a skins fan. I believe in Patrick Ramsey. I also trust coach Gibbs. Say what you want about Sean Taylor, but he is one hell of a player. Chris Cooley was a diamond in the rough.I like the fact that we picked up Carlos this year. I do not understand the drafting of a QB though, but I am confident that Gibbs and the front office know what they are doing.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Exactly Hijinx - if this was actually our plan, why did we trade so fast instead of feeling the market out and trying to get the most value.

I'm certainly not "turning on the skins" but I think the fans have a very legitimate right to gripe and wonder after the way this offseason has been handled.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

why is everyone in love with mike williams? if he is so good why did 2 WR's go before him?

In my opinion, mike williams is a keyshawn johnson clone. granted he will make alot of catches, but they wont be for more than 10 yards each.

now to the original post:
you would rather have winslow over taylor? are you kidding me?
jesus christ man, go watch some arena football.





DRIVER! run him over with the bandwagon!

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Bye Bye! You think that Winslow was a better "citizen" coming out of college than Taylor?? The "soldier" was the biggest punk in all of college sports. While, I can't defend the fact that this team traded a 1st, 3rd, and 4th round pick for the right to draft Jason whatshisname, I'm still a fan. You stick with your team through the thick and thin, even if the owner is an idiot, and his director of player personnel is a moron. Gibbs might not even be able to coach in today's NFL, but he most certainly deserves repect for what he's done for this franchise.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

the next QB after us was midway into the 3rd round... i think we could have traded into the 2nd round and gotten campbell without any problems...

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Hey formerskinzfan... currentwindbag... you are the reason I can't watch football at bars. You don't know your head from your ass. Sean Taylor is a young guy who has a few off the field problems, but on the field he preformed like an animal and gave 110% every down. He knocked the shit out of TO for no reason and I'd give him my first born child for that one. Even on that GD randy moss TD where moss cought the ball at his feet his hands were only an inch away from knocking the ball out. As a rookie, almost thwarting one of the greatest catches Ive ever seen... I dont care if he smokes crack, rapes dogs, and kills your mother... as long as the courts dont prosecute, I cant. KWII???? go the hell to california and root for the raiders of the niners. There are absolute geniuses in their front offices. You are a moron and should have some sense beaten into you.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Dan Snyder has successfully soured a lot of people on the Redskins. I can understand where he's coming from. I like how some of you attempted to call him a bandwagon fan when they haven't been good in about 15 years. I think if he were a bandwagon fan, he would have switched to the Cowboys. I get sick of all of this bandwagon and fair weather bs you guys try to throw out there. This "team" is being ruined by the organization. We're a lot like the 49ers in that respect.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Ladies and gentlemen:

I believe that someone has just made me look like an eternal optimist. I'm like the kid in a room full of horsesh*t who goes digging around because he thinks ther just has to be a pony in there somewhwere. :food-smil

Most of you probably thought that it would not be possible to make me look like nothing more than a minor annoyance. But it has happened thanks to formerskinzfan.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna] He knocked the shit out of TO for no reason and I'd give him my first born child for that one.




:lol:

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

i am happy after hearing gibbs, in gibbs we trust that is what i have to stick by, and if he saw something in campbell then i can't say that i blame him. he says that he couldn't pass up on a QB that he felt fit perfectly in the system and we want continuity but our team to most outsiders and many insiders had horrible QBs, yes 4 is a lot but we will use the best one and remember what the 3rd picked qb last year did and gibbs put him higher than most on his chart, gibbs just maybe good at spoting QBs. i know brunnel is against that but how the hell would anyone know he would be such a skrew up.
I am happy w/ rogers, would i pick him over williams but he is still good, if barrow is back then we improved on D and it would be hard to say that we got worse this year,

for number 4 pick i would take jerome mathis if he is there or Fred Gibson to adress the WR need
i hope they are both around 16 picks in!

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

For the record, I don't know if any of those guys playing football at Miami are good citizens. Truth is, if I want a good citizen, I'll go to church. Kellen Winslow broke his leg on a meaningless onsides kick last year but if he hadn't, only Rothlesberger would have finished ahead of him on offensive rookie of the year voting. He's the real deal. So is Mike Williams. And we missed out on a rare opportunity to have two franchise caliber players in their prime on our offense. The only franchise corner that has ever played this game and will ever play this game is Deion Sanders. If you need any examples on how well teams can do after losing their "lockdown cover corners", take a look a New England. Speaking of which, the fact that they didn't do more to keep David Patten should tell you a little bit about him as well. My point here is that Coles, Bailey, Gardner, Ramsey and Santana Moss (another malcontent the jets unloaded on us in exchange for taking back the malcontent they unloaded on us the year before. Why don't we trade Lavar Arrington to the Jets for the Brooklyn Bridge while we're at it. As long as they're just pulling jedi mind tricks on our GM and all). Mike Williams and Kellen Winslow franchise football players that would have been cornerstones of our offense for years to come. Instead, we will have to pray for a scoreless tie every week as our east west back struggles in our north south running game. And I'll go to my grave believing that if we hadn't taken rogers where we did, he could have fallen to 25 anyway

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Paragraphs can be your friend

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

[QUOTE=formerskinzfan] The only franchise corner that has ever played this game and will ever play this game is Deion Sanders.[/QUOTE]

Wow... not a mere mention of Darrel Green, but Deion Sanders?? I thought you were amusing for a second, but now Im truly offended. You are a moron.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

wrong dum dum. Darrel Green is easily one of the best cornerbacks I've ever seen. I grew up watching him for the first 3/4 of his career. He is a first ballot hall of famer without a doubt. he was a lock down cover corner and if Rogers turns out to be 1/2 of Darrell Green, we got lucky this year. But he was not a franchise cornerback. His presence and effectiveness was tremendous throughout his career. He locked down many of the best wide receivers to ever play this game. But he never had the instant effect of making a defense a championship caliber defense that Sanders did. Sanders [i]was the difference [/i]between the Niners and Cowboys during their heyday (which until today's draft was the most painful experience of my life as a redskins fan) and I am not sure Darrell Green, as good as he was in his prime would have made that difference, especially in light of the fact that both Irvin and Rice were bigger physical receivers that gave Green some trouble, even though he fought them both like a crazed dog. And speaking of big, physical wide outs with great hands and tremendous route running ability (Irvin and Rice), the fact that they gave the hall of famer Green, and a guy you think is a franchise corner I might add, as much trouble as they did only strengthens my argument that Williams should've been taken with that pick. I am much more confident projecting Williams as a hall of fame franchise reciever than I am projecting Rogers as a hall of fame franchise corner. Defense is cool but you do have to score the football sometimes.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Why don't you go to your "new" team's fan site.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Alright armchair GMs, simmer down.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

I have been a Skins fan 35yrs. and will be 35 more, but today was a BUST! What anyone did in the past, is past. NOW is what matters! We could of had Derrick Johnson and gotten a corner or wideout at 25. We do have CBs that are capable.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

My "new" team is whoever is playing Dallas. That was my second favorite team my entire life. I am seeing a lot of shouts for me to get off the bandwagon or move to Dallas but I wouldn't be so angry about this if I didn't really care about the redskins. What I am not seeing from anyone is a cogent logical argument as to why we spent the last two years of the draft pursing defensive backs in spite of having one of the worst and most poorly balanced offenses in the league whose passing attack looked like more like the Bethesda Chevy Chase Senior High School Battling Barons offense than a professional football team.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

[QUOTE=John Hasbrouck]I have been a Skins fan 35yrs. and will be 35 more, but today was a BUST! What anyone did in the past, is past. NOW is what matters! We could of had Derrick Johnson and gotten a corner or wideout at 25. We do have CBs that are capable.[/QUOTE]

JH if you mention DJ again I am going to explode! :madani:

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Well here you go... our defense can't slip from where it was last year. otherwise, it won't matter what happens offensively, we will not make the playoffs. our defensive system relies alot on one on one matchups and blitzing corners. Offensively, we had the personell to put up a lot more points last year than we did. That can go back to a few causes....
1) Joe Gibbs - not making the switch from brunell until halfway through the season, because he didnt trust PR... why would he. In the relief Giants game he scored more for the other team than his own. He did not make critical reads to open recievers, because he was too concerned about turning the ball over, and he lacked confidence. Playcalling was suspect at critical times as well and so was clock management.
2) Recievers dropping easy balls all year long. That was unreal. Coles had a hurt finger and probably should've been benched to let DMac have a chance to earn his millions.
3) Injuries - not saying we were the worst team with injuries last year, but we had our share... we need to start preparing the guys on offense just like the defense where the #2 & 3 guys get actual workouts in practice just in case they're needed.

I think Gibbs saw potential problems with Mike Williams that outweighed the benefits. I mean for a guy that big to have so many problems getting off of a 195lb corner's jam... thats kind of rediculous, but its true and its his worst downfall. There are alot of other things on O that need fixing besides personell, and Gibbs knows it. He also knows theres a legitimate concern at QB and was prepared to give up an immediate impact player to get what he thinks is a young mobile gunslinging QB for the future.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

THE OFFENSE HAS HAD MORE UPGRADING DONE TO IT ( sorry for the caps) durring this offseason than the defense has. the defense was the one area the skins were strong at last year but they lost key players. the d needed to be restored as much as possible with the 9th pick.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Yes we did upgrade the offense if you could call it that. We got an over paid, over-rated and soft crybaby malcontent in Santana Moss in exchange for an over paid over rated and soft crybaby malcontent (Coles) that we paid too much for last year in the first place. Then we brought in the weakest of all the patriots receivers (and again the fact that they are content to live without him speaks volumes. I don't want the players New England doesn't want. What did Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy do last year?) And the two of them will compliment the over-paid over rated and soft malcontent that is Rod Gardner, who Gibbs spent the last four months trying to move with no takers (which also speaks volumes about his lack of value in this league). Then we move up two rounds to take a QB that would've been there in the second or third round anyway. And over the course of the next 10 years, we'll still have to pay the unproven Rogers roughly the same money that we didn't want to give the proven Bailey (whom if we hadn't moved to bring in an oversized scat back in the first place, we wouldn't need to upgrade at all on defense) And I know Campbell is an insurance policy on Mark Brunell (another over-rated and clearly past his prime veteran that Snyder was more than willing to pay too much for; and a bad fit for Gibbs' offense to boot). It isn't that we didn't address needs this year. It's that we created those needs by using a ouija board, a magic 8 ball, and a palm reader to run our front office the last three or four years.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

In last year's draft I was so THRILLED not so much as we got Sean Taylor, but the fact we did NOT get big mouth, egotistical Winslow.......and I think it was poetic justice that he got hurt and couldnt play against the Redskins, the team he vowed to get even with for not drafting him...........does that speak volumes about Winslow.

Anyone can stick with a team that is always winning Super Bowls, but the test of a TRUE fan is whether you stick with a team during the bad times.......It's perserverance that distinquishes a LOYAL fan from a bandwagoneer.........I will ALWAYS be a Redskin fan be it good times or bad........ :httr:

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

I'm glad we're finally starting to get rid of the posers.....

What a waste of database space!

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

A bandwagon needs several things to run effectively. First it needs wheels, and the wheels fell off of our bandwagon nearly 15 years ago. Secondly, it needs a driver and while it would appear that we have one in Gibbs, unfortunately we also have a backseat driver in Snyder who apparently isn't going to stop until he puts this team in salary cap hell through the next 5 presidential administrations. And I was raised by my grandmother to love this team even when they were the "deadskins" before Gibbs. My loyalty to this team never came into doubt until I began to doubt this team's loyalty to itself and its traditions of intelligent drafting, power football and pride in the uniform, none of which seem to be in abundance at this moment. You are right, we didn't get the egotistical loud mouth Winslow with the great bloodlines. We got the loudmouth, egotistical and drunk Taylor who apparently now wants to hold out after one above average rookie season. I repeat myself, the only member of a defensive backfield that has any business holding out for any reason is a young Ronnie Lott with superbowl rings in hand. Last year we also got the egotistical and loud mouth Coles, who actually managed to get himself kicked out of FSU. God only knows how many RICO indictments you have to be facing before Bowden finally drops the axe on you. And no Winslow didn't get his "revenge" on us personally last year due to his broken leg. I guess he'll just have to settle for going to six or seven pro-bowls in the next 10 years while our tight end, by the way who the hell does play tight end for us, puts up pathetically average numbers like the ones we are going to get this year from Moss (another loud mouthed egotistical Miami player who gleefully displays all of the character traits you despise in Winslow), Patten and Rod Lardrner, not Gardner, who's contributions last year were about as valuable as those of a pot-bellied pig for dinner at the end of fasting for Ramadaan.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

winslow would have been a wasted pick, he does not fit into gibbs offense. he is better suited for a throw first offense, not a run first offense. he's not even a top 10 te in the nfl, why you love him so much is really disturbing to me.
in the past dan snyder did overpay for players and the skins are now paying for it. since gibbs has taken over, dan has been much more tight with his money and thats the way it needs to be. the skins cannot afford to overpay the way they used to.
as for paying champ bailey, he was offered plenty, he did not want to stay in washington regardless of the offer . good ridence to him. he made me sick, he would get burnt for a td at least 4 times a year. the skins defense was better without him. springs is just as good, if not better. smoot was not better than bailey or springs or carlos rogers for that matter. his #1 mistake is he confided in bailey.
back to the subject of off-season additions to the offense , patten and moss are upgrades when compared to coles and gardner. they also got casey raback, plus the return of john jansen. the offense should be better this season.
defense wins championships and the skins had to do what was necassary to keep it up to par. mike williams was less important to the skins when compared to carlose rogers. the skins do not need another rod gardner on the team. he's big and slow. i would rather the skins use mccants more this year than draft williams.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

[QUOTE=Hijinx]When a few days ago they made the trade for the 25th pick no one in the league, the press, or the fans could figure out what they were doing. And now that it is over I still can't figure out what they are doing. Even if you take for granted that we needed another QB and that Campbell is the:
1)QB of the future
2)best QB of the draft
3)the Messiah
How can you say we needed to give up a 1st, 3rd and 4th for him, when I think he would have been there in the 2nd round.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... I agree. So, they used 3 draft picks to pick up a QB that easily would be no more than a second round draft pick?? Huh? Also, I have to laugh at Gibbs as he justified this pick as investment in the future... and said this was no reflection on Ramsey. Of course, it all depends on his progress and performance, but i thought RAMSEY was the future investment for QB position.

This has been the worst offseason that I can remember... Losing important players and using the high draft picks to just replace or just add players. I don't see where they improved at all... And now that they have no dominant WR to speak of, I can't see their passing game improving much from last year.

I usually look at the Skins optimiscally.... but after this offseason I'm pessimistic as hell for next season.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

EXIT0 your just used to all the high profile players that the skins have been getting since danny snyder took over. your used to the redskins winning the off season superbowl. finally things are getting back to normal in dc.
just relax and enjoy this ride as gibbs returns this organization into a winning one.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

[QUOTE=exit0]Yeah... I agree. So, they used 3 draft picks to pick up a QB that easily would be no more than a second round draft pick?? Huh? Also, I have to laugh at Gibbs as he justified this pick as investment in the future... and said this was no reflection on Ramsey. Of course, it all depends on his progress and performance, but i thought RAMSEY was the future investment for QB position.

This has been the worst offseason that I can remember... Losing important players and using the high draft picks to just replace or just add players. I don't see where they improved at all... And now that they have no dominant WR to speak of, I can't see their passing game improving much from last year.

I usually look at the Skins optimiscally.... but after this offseason I'm pessimistic as hell for next season.[/QUOTE]

What if god forbid something terrible happened to Ramsey next year. Then we would have been stuck with Brunell and forced to draft a quarterback out of need and probably tried to trade up and seriously overpaid to get someone.

This was an investment pick. It is an insurance pick. Gibbs likes this guy because he fits our system and will begin his career learning and develping slowly.

Granted we could have drafted Adrian McPhereson in a later round, but he doesn't have the cleanest track record and is definately and uncut diamond. But even the best jewlers can ruin a diamond.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

Our defense was already more than up to par. It was a championship defense and as you pointed out, Springs was more than adequate as a replacement for Bailey. All of this means that we didn't need to look for a franchise corner (which rogers isn't) at 9 b/c we didn't even need one. All we needed out of this draft was another starting corner. And we probably couldv'e gotten Rogers later anyway. Look at the draft order. The next corner back wasn't taken until the Raiders took Fabian Washington at 23. If we had taken Williams at 9, Carlos Rogers and Fabian Washington would have fallen to the mid 20's, where they would have been solid picks and we would have ended up with one of them anyway. Then we could've gotten Campbell in the later rounds and not had to pay him starter's money just b/c we took him in the first round. And I can't repeat this enough. MWillams is not Michael Westbrook. He's not Keyshawn Johnson. He's the best, big, physical play-maker with super hands to come out since Michael Irvin (I know he played for Dallas but you can't argue with his talent or effectiveness. Ask the speedy Darrel Green or Deion Sanders how much fun it was trying to cover Irvin for 60 minutes.) and he's going to be better than Michael Irvin ever was. And Rod Lardner and this McCants guy would sell their souls to the devil to be as good as MWilliams was in high school.
Moss is not an upgrade over Coles. They are both whining spoiled prima-donnas who have blazing speed that they use only to dazzle GM's with but they will never play up to their potential. And after getting completely hosed by the Jets in the first Coles deal, I would be very reticent to make another one with them. If you bought a crappy car from me that only broke down and never ran right, would you really feel confident trading that same crappy car back to me for another one of the crappy cars on my lot? Probably not. The only reason Winslow isn't one of the best TE's in the league is b/c he didn't play last year. And if guys like Joe Caravello, Terry Orr and Clint Didier were effective w/Gibbs, can you imagine what a real TE/H-Back like Winslow would do? Especially if defenses had to account for both he and Williams. The bottom line here is that we could have done everything we did in the draft this year and still gotten Mike Williams but we decided to take Rogers about 12-15 picks instead of where he should've been selected and then we compounded that mistake by taking Campbell about 25-30 spots in front of where he should've gone and we'll be paying for that for years to come. All of which leaves us about where we were this time last year; with a superb, fast and physical defense but without one single player on the offensive side of the ball that will command a double team or create any real match up problems for the opposing defense. We shouldn't just be right back where you started from after having two lottery picks in two years...Unless we've become the New Orleans Saints or the Bengals or something.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

if we would have taken williams at 9, then carlos rogers
( who , in my opinion, was a much greater need and a much, much, much better player than williams will ever be) would not have been available at 25. if we took campell at 25 after wasting 9 on williams, we would never have gotten a good cb. we didn't pick again until round 4. if we would have taken another player at 25 after wasting 9 on williams, we would never have gotten campbell, he would have been drafted by miami,cleveland or tampa bay with their next pick.
i know you will disagree with me and thats fine. thank you for the good debate.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

formerskinsfan, if you have not done so already, i suggest you go to hailredskins.com and read the BOSWEL article from the Wash. post. it gives a good picture as to why the skins drafted rogers and campbel instead of williams.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

The Boswell article was a very good one. He is right. Only time will tell. So that said, Rogers had better fly around like a wasp and sting everything in sight for the next 10 years. Why? Because we gave up about 60-80 touchdowns over the next five or six years to get him so he damn well better stop that many from getting past him. I understand everything you guys are all saying about defense. I do. But in the end, you have to create mis-matches on offense to win. This isn't soccer. You have to score the ball. And right now, I don't see anyone on the offensive side of the ball who's effectiveness can't be curtailed or flat out eliminated by a good defensive scheme (like the ones we will see from Dallas and Philly). And having seen Williams w/my own eyes and talking to people in the SC program, I know for sure, there is no curtailing MWilliams. He is a force of nature. That being said, I hope to hell that I'm wrong and I'll gladly suffer all of your slings and arrows if this team goes 12-4 and wins the NFC east. Right now, I just don't think I'm going to have to do that.

Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?
 

It's funny how so many people have taken to the likes of Mike Williams when the fact remains that he has been out of football for over a year. Who's to say Williams is going to live up to all the hype. People have already treated the guy like some hall of fame player before he has even stepped out onto the field. Desmond Howard was a number draft pick, Michael Westbrook was a number one guy as well I believe...yet where are they now?