Fix the Line Thread
 

I created this thread to talk about how the skins can fix the O-line in 2015.

Currently we have two lineman worth keeping in their positions: Trent Williams and Kory Lichtensteiger. I don't think the best solution is to draft a bunch of guy's because 1. the Redskins don't develop line talent 2. We don't play them.

Spencer Long should be playing these last few games. It won't happen but it should happen. I want him to take the starting role from Chester in 15.

Mike Iupati should be their number 1 target in the offseason. He is a mauler and the arguably the 49ers best lineman. He would take over the LG spot.

Brandon Scherff is the best olineman in the draft according to CBS and he could come at Right Tackle, if drafted. I think we need a safety more than a tackle in the first. Morgan Moses showed flashes however I am not sure how he will come back from that injury.

Lastly we need a new O-Line coach, I have beating the drum for Russ Grimm forever but doubt that happens, so I would like to know who is the best OLine coach for the West Coast Offense?



My suggested starting line in 15

LT Williams
LG Iupati
C Lich
RG Long
RT Moses or draft someone that played RT at the college level.

Thoughts?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

We do have 3 3rd rounders sitting on the bench, I expect at least 2 starters (being optimistic)

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

My initial thought is that one could easily say fix the line[U][B]s[/B][/U]. (Not to manage your thread.) The D line needs an upgrade too, as evidneced by yesterday's game. We get no QB pressure from the D line at all, and only Hatcher seems to have had an impact this year (and he's been banged up). Decent run stopping, but that's not enough.

Back to the O-line, penciling in Long or Moses may be too hopeful. That they've not been able to work their way into the starting lineup as badly as our starters have played is a little troubling. I know Moses is hurt (and I worry there that a lisfranc will be very hard to bounce back from), but still. I think we need several more new faces on the O-Line -- both G slots, RT, and some additional depth at center. That's a lot to rebuild in one year, even putting aside the need for D line help and, of course, safety help.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Through the draft. Like any smart team would. You also need depth on the oline

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1100024]



My suggested starting line in 15

LT Williams
LG Iupati
C Lich
RG Long
RT Moses or draft someone that played RT at the college level.

Thoughts?[/quote]

We're gonna get killed.

The way I feel is that the Redskins have allowed 53 sacks so far this season. A ridiculous number. No one has really earned a starting spot, save T. Williams but he's been half-assing it because of injury (not his fault, really).

The Skins really need to clean house, especially with Chester and Polumbus. Luvao and Lich I feel are bubble players who'll probably be back next year because we can't ACTUALLY clean house on the starting line completely... Continue to develop Long, Moses and Compton. None of whom should be starting next season unless they make some enormous strides during off-season and pre-season next year. But... I can understand if they do because we can't continue to hold everyone back.

I meant Moses or Compton. They both seem merely average so far, so I hope they have a upside and can be developed.

Long I'm still iffy about because if he can't beat out Chester for starting these last couple of games, that feels somewhat like a red flag because Chester flat out sucks.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

First thing is fire the Oline coach

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Get a lot of better guys and revel in the pure joy of cutting some of the chaff on our current line........

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

One thing that should be addressed is seeing if you can extend/restructure Williams contract. He stands to make about $14 million next year, which is 10% of total team salary. I think that makes him the highest paid O-lineman in the NFL. Plus it is the last year of his contract.

The [B]Skins spent the 4th most on O-line this year[/B], and I don't know what they got for it. I will tell you the protection problems are more than just the O-line. The blocking by the TEs and RBs has been god awful this year. And whoever the QB is needs to recognize the defenses and be smart enough to check out of plays or hit the hot route. I can not remember seeing one play this year where a play was changed at the LoS.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1100049]First thing is fire the Oline coach[/quote]

...who has not developed anyone

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

sign
Bryan Buluga OT (26)
Clint Boling G (26)
James Carpenter G (26)

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

I sure hope we can re-structure with Trent in a way that makes him want to stay. If he's looking for a way to get to a contender, his salary and our obvious desire to do something about it will create that opportunity.

Yikes.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

I started posting this and then messed it up by clicking on accident, but a crazy thought: what if we actually did EXACTLY what the draft experts said?

I looked back in the first three rounds over the past five years and honestly we would have had a shot at some GREAT players. Do scouts over-think? Do coaches over-think? It's very hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but are the draft experts so bad? We've gotten some gems for sure, but just glancing at draft boards the past few years, if we followed exactly what was posted, we'd be alright I think. :(

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

There do seem to be some issues in our talent evaluation...
Just not enough keepers...

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

I was all for Moses...but after watching people dance past him this year when he was given the opportunity, I already feel like he is a bust. Draft all oline and db this year. If free agents come along. Get them. But don't over pay for fucks sake. We dug stupid holes for ourselves overpaying for useless players. Stop the trend and draft and develop.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

I wish the media would hound the team about this more, instead they are too busy beating the dead horse with the QB position.

Since Danny looks up to Jerry Jones so much, he should notice how the Cowpukes have invested on their o-line, including three first round picks.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

We need to spend the next two drafts getting the trenches together. Draft OL and DL because no protection and no pressure = no wins. Along with coaches that bring the best out of players. I read someone posted Bacarri Rambo picked off Aaron Rodgers twice and looks like a different player now he is not in DC. I remember no one thought he would play another down in the league and damn sure didn't believe he would pick off a top 5 QB twice in one game.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Wait wait wait..

YES. Our offensive line definitely needs help / redrafting / etc.


BUT:
1) RB/TE: Many of the sacks during the year were due to the RB / TE who SUCK at pass protection. It's our fault for drafting RB who can't block, and the RB/TE coaches fault for not teaching it better. Come on.
2) QB: Many of the sacks are from QB's holding the ball too long.
3) Bad offense/defense: Lack of offensive production leads to 3rd and longs and bad defense leads to playing from behind -- and both lead to more blitzing / more sacks.
4) Scheme - I wonder if more roll outs, more focus on run game, more variety of screen passes -- all would help decrease the sacks.


It's easy to say the O-line sucks and at times they do -- but it's not always their fault.. And finally, we REALLY need to develop our own talent. Bruce hasn't done much, but also hasn't gotten much help from his coaches in developing talent.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Our Oline has giving up 53 sacks already this year, the skins record is 61 for a season. Folks, every single player and coach job should be on the line, including silverback.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

As much new blood as possible will be beneficial. New coaching alone is not going to solve this problem. Chris Foerster, thanks for your time, now here's the door.

It is ridiculous to me that three third round OL haven't been able to break into the starting lineup.

Any free agent signing should be a guy who is 27 or younger. I personally think they should target trading down once to add an additional pick this year in the first three rounds. IMO, unless they are dead set on Scherff or Ogbuehi, trading down makes the most sense. The only way to "win" at the draft, is to have as many picks as possible.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

If Gruden returns as reports say and him and RGIII can't co-exist and they trade him. I would look to see if an RGIII for Kyle Long is possible.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Cooley would disagree with a lot on this board. He seems to be of the opinion that our offensive line as a whole is actually solid... pins a lot of the blame on the QBs, RBs, and TEs.

I think Trent and Lavuao for sure are going to be starters next year, both because they fit what Gruden wants and because they've been getting the job done. Lichtensteiger has been our best lineman at times, but he's smaller and not as powerful as Trent and Lavuao. I think there's a decent chance he starts next year. Chester I can't see starting. I don't care what Gruden and Cooley say, he needs to hit the road. At RT, Compton has been better than Polumbus, but of course that's not setting the bar very high. I think Moses(depending on health) and Compton battle for the job next year, with maybe someone else thrown in the mix.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Well then Cooley is a shitty analyst because you can see the pocket collapse almost immediately on most plays.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

2015
Polumbus is a UFA.
Compton is an RFA.
2016
Williams is a UFA.
Chester is a UFA.
LeRibeus is a UFA.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=drew54;1100115]2015
Polumbus is a UFA.
Compton is an RFA.
2016
Williams is a UFA.
Chester is a UFA.
LeRibeus is a UFA.[/quote]

IMO, Compton (city of) should stay. Moses and Long obviously should be back. Kory L and Silverblunt should be back. I dont think we can cut Lauvo, but I think a decision should be made to bring in competition to challenge his spot. LeRibeaus has had opportunity, he should be cut. My plan would be too draft a Tackle with our first pick if one is there (should be). I think the plan should be to first him to start at RT with a plan to replace Silverblunt if the blunted one thinks he is gonna get a Tryon Smith-type deal.

I think we go into free agency looking for a solid Right Guard and a Vetern Guard who can push Lauvo. We would be replacing 2 starters, and possibly a third starter.

Before all of this is done though, we have fired our current Oline coach

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=SirLK26;1100096]Cooley would disagree with a lot on this board. He seems to be of the opinion that our offensive line as a whole is actually solid... pins a lot of the blame on the QBs, RBs, and TEs.
[/quote]

Well, I do agree with Cooley on the issues of the RBs & TEs blocking. I would also add in the wide receivers. I also agree in terms of the quarterbacks holding onto the ball too long.

But, I don't agree that the offensive line is solid. It needs a lot of work.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=SirLK26;1100096][B]Cooley would disagree with a lot on this board. He seems to be of the opinion that our offensive line as a whole is actually solid... pins a lot of the blame on the QBs, RBs, and TEs.
[/B]
I think Trent and Lavuao for sure are going to be starters next year, both because they fit what Gruden wants and because they've been getting the job done. Lichtensteiger has been our best lineman at times, but he's smaller and not as powerful as Trent and Lavuao. I think there's a decent chance he starts next year. Chester I can't see starting. I don't care what Gruden and Cooley say, he needs to hit the road. At RT, Compton has been better than Polumbus, but of course that's not setting the bar very high. I think Moses(depending on health) and Compton battle for the job next year, with maybe someone else thrown in the mix.[/quote]

I think offensive line and DB is priority #1 and #2.
I tend to agree with this up to a certain point. That point being we need a new RT and Guard. It is unfair to fully evaluate players when there are such huge holes in the starting line up (O-line & secondary). Trent (great), Lavauao (ok) and Lichtensteiger (ok) should stay. Lavauao could always be moved to RG if a better guard is found, he is more of a RG type anyway. The other OLineman on the roster should not thrown out in the trash just yet, especially the young guys.

We better not get spend significant cap space/money on more Qb's or WR's until the O-line and secondary is repaired. It is unfair to fully evaluate players when there are such huge holes in the starting line up

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[QUOTE=SirLK26;1100096]Cooley would disagree with a lot on this board. He seems to be of the opinion that our offensive line as a whole is actually solid... pins a lot of the blame on the QBs, RBs, and TEs.



I think Trent and Lavuao for sure are going to be starters next year, both because they fit what Gruden wants and because they've been getting the job done. Lichtensteiger has been our best lineman at times, but he's smaller and not as powerful as Trent and Lavuao. I think there's a decent chance he starts next year. Chester I can't see starting. I don't care what Gruden and Cooley say, he needs to hit the road. At RT, Compton has been better than Polumbus, but of course that's not setting the bar very high. I think Moses(depending on health) and Compton battle for the job next year, with maybe someone else thrown in the mix.[/QUOTE]


I'd agree a lot of blame has to go on the backs and TE's who have done a shitty job all year at picking up their assignments. Indecisive decision making at QB is also a factor. That said we definitely need to continue to improve the line.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

We do decent going forwards for run blocking, but no one can block going backwards(except trent).

We need Scherff!

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

We need a blocking TE, we don't have that player on the roster. I also think the coaching staff has often left weak players on an island to be destroyed. We need to see what we have in Spencer Long. He needs the game reps. Also, I think Russ Grimm needs to be hired as a coach or a consultant to assist with the development of this line.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Our biggest area of need is interior OL, not RT as most presume. As SirLK26 and Matty pointed out, you can thank shitty blocking by RB (alfred in particular) and TEs for a horrendous job on pass pro as well. I still think the biggest issue is QB play, which has to be much more decisive and get the ball out faster. QB play can make it look like you have the best OL in the world or the worst. It's no coincidence that the teams with QBs having the slowest release times are hammered by fans for having a shitty OL.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Just draft any players declaring eligibility on the O Line from Stanford with late picks. Those players are big, ass, bullies. I've watched enough Cardinal games this year to see that they could succeed at the next level. They just bully people over, literally.

All this of course, in addition to getting a RT in the first or second round, please. Fix the RT position. I just don't have a ton of hope for Moses, sadly.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1100030]We're gonna get killed.

The way I feel is that the Redskins have allowed 53 sacks so far this season. A ridiculous number. No one has really earned a starting spot, save T. Williams but he's been half-assing it because of injury (not his fault, really).

The Skins really need to clean house, especially with Chester and Polumbus. Luvao and Lich I feel are bubble players who'll probably be back next year because we can't ACTUALLY clean house on the starting line completely... Continue to develop Long, Moses and Compton. None of whom should be starting next season unless they make some enormous strides during off-season and pre-season next year. But... I can understand if they do because we can't continue to hold everyone back.

I meant Moses or Compton. They both seem merely average so far, so I hope they have a upside and can be developed.

Long I'm still iffy about because if he can't beat out Chester for starting these last couple of games, that feels somewhat like a red flag because Chester flat out sucks.[/quote]

Pretty much sums it up.

I might take the best offensive tackle with our first round pick and let that person battle with Trent for LT, loser moves to RT. The Patriots have taken this same approach and it works.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

LT Williams
LG Iupati
C Licht
RG Luvall
RT Moses

Could Luvall move to the right side?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100188]I might take the best offensive tackle with our first round pick and let that person battle with Trent for LT, loser moves to RT. The Patriots have taken this same approach and it works.[/quote]

That's retarded. You don't pay at RT top money so why in the fuck would you ever move TW (who's being paid a king's fortune) to the RT? Also, our guards are bigger issues than RT so drafting a RT with the top pick would be wasted.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1100193]That's retarded. You don't pay at RT top money so why in the fuck would you ever move TW (who's being paid a king's fortune) to the RT? Also, our guards are bigger issues than RT so drafting a RT with the top pick would be wasted.[/quote]

Chill out big girl. We need a solid RT, it's been a turnstyle for too long. Williams has really struggled this year, maybe you give him benefit of the doubt with injury but he looks fat and slow too. Need to push him.

Patriots and Ravens actually have handled tackle position this way, but go on supporting the Redskins way chica, it's worked so well lmao.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1100192]LT Williams
LG Iupati
C Licht
RG Luvall
RT Moses

Could Luvall move to the right side?[/quote]

Wheres my shiny new first rounder?

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100194]Chill out big girl. We need a solid RT, it's been a turnstyle for too long. Williams has really struggled this year, maybe you give him benefit of the doubt with injury but he looks fat and slow too. Need to push him.

Patriots and Ravens actually have handled tackle position this way, but go on supporting the Redskins way chica, it's worked so well lmao.[/quote]

..and do tell, how much are the Patriots paying said RT?


You don't have to be a douche bag. Thanks.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

The Patriots deal away Logan Mankins and now they are sitting 11-3.
Tom Brady checks Twitter between the snap and his throws.
They draft tackles with #1s.
We should just beg them for scouting lessons.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

Patriots cap figure for their LT is $2.7M while ours is......... $10.9M against the cap.


Patriots cap figure for their RT(Vollmer) is $4.1M while ours (Polumbus) is $2.6M.



We are spending $13.5M against the cap in two tackles while the Patriots are spending $6.8M.


Throwing more money into the tackle positions isn't the answer. Drafting better is.

Re: Fix the Line Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1100217]Patriots cap figure for their LT is $2.7M while ours is......... $10.9M against the cap.


Patriots cap figure for their RT(Vollmer) is $4.1M while ours (Polumbus) is $2.6M.



We are spending $13.5M against the cap in two tackles while the Patriots are spending $6.8M.


Throwing more money into the tackle positions isn't the answer. Drafting better is.[/quote]

Solder and Williams are still on their rookie contracts. Solder signed his under the new CBA, so that's why he's cheaper. Just pointing this out...

Anyway, I think between Compton and Moses the right tackle position is fine. Maybe draft a tackle in the mid-to-late rounds for depth and more competition, but right guard, safety, and the defensive line are bigger areas of need, IMO.