Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

I was watching the NFL Network this evening and they had Joe Gibbs on Redskins' cam. Joe was talking about how the Redskins really had a great draft and how well they did in this draft. Watching that interview and remembering reading all the negative stuff by alot of fans here, I was quite amused!

After thinking about it, I think Gibbs is right. We got a cornerback to replace Smoot (hopefully), we hopefully have added some depth to the linebacker position, and we've added some depth at the fullback position. I know we (including myself) felt that WR was a priority position like CB, but going on the assumption that the contract thing works out okay with Moss and he stays relatively healthy, I think we have a good group of receivers to choose from. Patton, from what I have heard from Pats fans, appears to be a good find for us, Thrash proved to be a hard worker, Talyor Jacobs may have a real shot at proving himself this year....maybe we don't necessarily need a wide receiver. It's one of those things that we will find out when the season starts.

I think we have addressed alot of areas we need to address through the draft. It will be nice to have a big fullback in on third and short or goal line.....we didn't have that this past season. If we did...things could have been quite different.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

Did he say anything about the Campbell drafting; and what that means for the Skins future?

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Did he say anything about the Campbell drafting; and what that means for the Skins future?[/QUOTE]


Yeah he said that Campbell was a player they felt was too good to pass up on and felt he can be a long term Redskin for us. Gibbs spoke highly of Campbell's size and ability to use his legs to get out of trouble. Gibbs emphasized, however, that Ramsey is the guy now to lead us to championships.

This also reminds me of when the Skins drafted Rypien back around 1987 I believe. Doug Williams was our guy, but Rypien was being groomed for our future. Once Rypien became our guy, Gibbs went out and drafted Stan Humphries to be groomed as Rypien's replacement if something happened to Mark. If you think about through Gibbs' first tenure, we really shouldn't be surprised by the acquisition of Chris Campbell. Gibbs expects Campbell to learn from Ramsey and Brunell. Joe also expects Ramsey to be our guy for the next few years and when it's time for Ramsey to step down or if he decides to go to a new team, we will have a fairly young guy who knows the system that we can just plug in!

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

I think we did a good job drafting - besides the first rounds. Though we got two good players, I think we should have used the picks in a different fashion.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Yeah he said that Campbell was a player they felt was too good to pass up on and felt he can be a long term Redskin for us. Gibbs spoke highly of Campbell's size and ability to use his legs to get out of trouble. Gibbs emphasized, however, that Ramsey is the guy now to lead us to championships.

This also reminds me of when the Skins drafted Rypien back around 1987 I believe. Doug Williams was our guy, but Rypien was being groomed for our future. Once Rypien became our guy, Gibbs went out and drafted Stan Humphries to be groomed as Rypien's replacement if something happened to Mark. If you think about through Gibbs' first tenure, we really shouldn't be surprised by the acquisition of Chris Campbell. Gibbs expects Campbell to learn from Ramsey and Brunell. Joe also expects Ramsey to be our guy for the next few years and when it's time for Ramsey to step down or if he decides to go to a new team, we will have a fairly young guy who knows the system that we can just plug in![/QUOTE]

See the difference back then was that we were continually a playoff team year in and year out and really didnt have to draft young guys because we already had a good enough team to compete. Now we dont have that type of team right now, so my problem is that we cant be wasting picks on players that can help us now; to groom someone for the future. Who knows, I'm not totaly blown away by the pick, but I'm still having a hard time liking it.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

i absolutely loved our draft although i dont think we carry a FB position to comment on skinsguy post, i think white jr. will be a TE and broughton will be a RB leaving rock out. but i love our lb picks and the rb/te/fb picks. white, broughton and mccune are all fast, athletic, and big. im loving it

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]See the difference back then was that we were continually a playoff team year in and year out and really didnt have to draft young guys because we already had a good enough team to compete. Now we dont have that type of team right now, so my problem is that we cant be wasting picks on players that can help us now; to groom someone for the future. Who knows, I'm not totaly blown away by the pick, but I'm still having a hard time liking it.[/QUOTE]


Well, you gotta understand the reason why we WERE good back then.Two reasons: We had depth in key positions and we had good character players. I believe things were quicker for us in the early part of Gibbs' first tenure because he had the components mostly in place in the beginning.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

we did add some players that should contribute.

but the problem most people have is they gave too much to get what they got.

its hard enough to stomach drafting campbell then you realize they gave up next years first and 4th(or 3rd i forget) and this years 5th round picks.
they traded away 3 solid picks for a reserve player!!!

the redskins have been overpaying for everything.
i dont mean just money either. they gave an extra pick for the portis bailey deal.
lost a pick to get morton(and overpayed). gave away too much for the 25th pick this year(didnt even get a player that will help the team this year). they gave a 1st round pick for coles(wasted pick in hindsight).

the skins didnt get one single linemen in this years draft!!!
the redskins have been in decline since they ran casserly out of town. we have no core players despite what gibbs says.

all year we heard about how the line wasnt giving brunell enough time and the dline wasnt getting pressure without blitzing so the best thing to do is draft a quaterback and not draft any linemen... :vomit-smi

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

There's no sense in worrying about next year's draft when none of us know what deals might be struck between now and then.

We added a new center and we're getting Jansen back. The two hopefully will improve our offensive line quite a bit.

What proof do you have that we have no core players?

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

skinsguy:

When Rypien was drafted to prepare to take over from Williams, Doug had been in the league for a while. He wasn't someone emerging as a QB; I think he'd been our of college for about 10 years. So, if Ramsey is really "the guy" and really has a great future in the league, then he ought to be around for the next 10 years or so. Now I believe in adding depth as much as anyone here, but if you REALLY think you have your QB for the next decade already on your roster, you don't spend a first round pick on a QB.

You forgot to mention how drafting Humphires turned out here. Gibbs and company ran him out of town and his success came in San Diego. And after Humphries they drafted Cary Conklin and he too got run out of town because he would not/could not fit into the program. So even if I give you Rypien as a smart draft choice - as opposed to a none-year wonder - how about those other two guys? How do they support you in your optimism?

Compare the Skins draft to the to the Colts, Eagles, Pats, Steelers, Falcons, Jets, Texans for a moment. They each have QBs on their squads who project to be "the man" for the next 5 years at least - barring a major injury. Now, what did those teams do with draft picks for the QB position over the weekend? I can't rattle off their picks in the first couple of rounds without cheating and going to ESPN.com to look, but I don't remember any QBs going there early on in the draft. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Of course, you are free to imagine that everyone the Skins brought in here in the off-season will immediately commence to play like Hall of Famers. Not likely, but you can imagine it if you want and then Gibbs' comments about having a good draft is easily understandable. The Redskins' WRs were mediocre last year and have not improved in the off season.

You can charaterize Thrash as a hard working and dedicated player and you'd be absolutely right. He just isn't in the top 50 recievers in the NFL no matter how hard he works.

You can hope that Taylor Jacobs is a flower just about to emerge from its bud. It could happen. But since he has been in the NFL, he hasnt accomplished "jack-sh*t".

Go back one year in time and tell me honestly that if anyone had suggested an even-up trade of LC for S. Moss you would have thought that was a great idea. You would have been the only person on the planet to have thought that way.

The biggest problem with this draft is that way too many picks were traded away - for Portis last year and to move up to draft Campbell. The team is not one or two players away from a Super Bowl' They need bodies. They traded away picks to take one player (Campbell) who will sit for most of the year next year and maybe most of the year after that. If Campbell has to start and/or play the majority of 10 games this season, here is a phrase you might well be hearing come December:


The Washington Redskins are on the clock...

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=jamf]
the skins didnt get one single linemen in this years draft!!!
the redskins have been in decline since they ran casserly out of town. we have no core players despite what gibbs says.[/QUOTE]

I disagree about the Redskins not having any "core" players. Not to be a jerk or come off as an ass, but did you watch any of the draft when they were talking with Jensen, Green, and some LB from NE? They were asked about when Randy Moss walked off the field, and the LB from NE said that it was no big deal, and I thought that Jensen was going to come unglued on the guy!! It was pretty good, but I would have to say that there is no guy in DC right now that wants to win more than Jensen and he would be the first guy on the "CORE" Redskins group.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

From what I saw from Jensen on espn, thought he did a good job. He's got the knack to be a broadcaster when he gives it up someday.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Of course, you are free to imagine that everyone the Skins brought in here in the off-season will immediately commence to play like Hall of Famers.[/QUOTE]

What I wouldn't give to have Curmudgeon stop using this same damn line every time, acting like we Redskins fans are a bunch of "meatheads" who think there's nothing between bust and Canton bust. Annoys the #$)(@& out of me...who's with me?

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

If Ramsey takes us to the super bowl this year, awesome. Then we have the same problem teh chargers do, which is a great problem to have. Two young great qbs. That gives us all kinds of depth and leverage. If ramsey is a bust, then we have anotehr guy in the wings learnign the system thats waiting for his chance.

The only way we lose, is if both of them turn out to be busts. That, and what is most peoples concern, is that we dotn have a first round pick for next year now. They made this trade to get campbell, so dont think that we didnt use the 25th pick to get a player that filled an immediate 'need'. Becuase we would not have traded for that pick if we wernt going to get campbell. Everyone that thinks we should have got an end, wr, te, or whatever with the 25th pick might as well just get that thought out of their head. You can argue about the 9th pick, but the 25th pick was only there for campbell, otherwise we wouldnt have had it.

hopefully we'll get somethign for gardner for next years draft. Hopefully enough to let us move up into the first round if thats somethign we see our selves wanting to do next year.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

TAFKAS:

I promise not to use that argument again as long as someone does not try to argue that James Thrash is part of a wide receiving corps that will strike fear in the hearts of every defensive coordinator in the NFL.

Deal?

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]TAFKAS:

I promise not to use that argument again as long as someone does not try to argue that James Thrash is part of a wide receiving corps that will strike fear in the hearts of every defensive coordinator in the NFL.

Deal?[/QUOTE]

Fine by me

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

I seriously think Gibbs still thinks this is 1990 or something.. He cannot develop and protect somebody like Campbell like he did for Rypien or any of his other QB's.. WE had other needs on defense and offense which were not addressed.. I don't whose decision this was but it was a very bad decision. Taking Carlos Rogers at 9 was xcellent. I thought we might have been tempted to take Williams, but we needed a CB real bad.
As I have said in my other threads, there seems to be no lack of direction or vision from the management. We don't have any plan. U cannot develop a good team if you constantly keep on mortgaging your future. We have no 1st round pick next year. Look at all the other who pile on picks and draft players who can add depth and value to their team. We could lern a ot from Phili as to how they drafted. WE WASTED OUR 3 PICKS FOR AN UNPROVEN COLLEGE QB!! If this is'nt insane tell me what is.. I am losing all hope of Redskins as an organization.. Danny boy needs to get a GM. WE NEED A GM!! We have had a poor draft for quite sometime now.


[QUOTE=skinsguy]I was watching the NFL Network this evening and they had Joe Gibbs on Redskins' cam. Joe was talking about how the Redskins really had a great draft and how well they did in this draft. Watching that interview and remembering reading all the negative stuff by alot of fans here, I was quite amused!

After thinking about it, I think Gibbs is right. We got a cornerback to replace Smoot (hopefully), we hopefully have added some depth to the linebacker position, and we've added some depth at the fullback position. I know we (including myself) felt that WR was a priority position like CB, but going on the assumption that the contract thing works out okay with Moss and he stays relatively healthy, I think we have a good group of receivers to choose from. Patton, from what I have heard from Pats fans, appears to be a good find for us, Thrash proved to be a hard worker, Talyor Jacobs may have a real shot at proving himself this year....maybe we don't necessarily need a wide receiver. It's one of those things that we will find out when the season starts.

I think we have addressed alot of areas we need to address through the draft. It will be nice to have a big fullback in on third and short or goal line.....we didn't have that this past season. If we did...things could have been quite different.[/QUOTE]

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

I wanted Williams, but I could see the CB pick. Rogers was #2 on my CB board and PacMan was gone. He's a good player, I would have preferred Williams, a lot, but I could stomach the pick. Campbell however...

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=ArringtonRules]I seriously think Gibbs still thinks this is 1990 or something.. He cannot develop and protect somebody like Campbell like he did for Rypien or any of his other QB's.. WE had other needs on defense and offense which were not addressed.. I don't whose decision this was but it was a very bad decision. Taking Carlos Rogers at 9 was xcellent. I thought we might have been tempted to take Williams, but we needed a CB real bad.
As I have said in my other threads, there seems to be no lack of direction or vision from the management. We don't have any plan. U cannot develop a good team if you constantly keep on mortgaging your future. We have no 1st round pick next year. Look at all the other who pile on picks and draft players who can add depth and value to their team. We could lern a ot from Phili as to how they drafted. WE WASTED OUR 3 PICKS FOR AN UNPROVEN COLLEGE QB!! If this is'nt insane tell me what is.. I am losing all hope of Redskins as an organization.. Danny boy needs to get a GM. WE NEED A GM!! We have had a poor draft for quite sometime now.[/QUOTE]

I think that it's either Gibbs or a GM. I don't think Gibbs would have come back if he didn't have final say on football decisions. So even if we did bring in a GM he'd still answer to Gibbs right?

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Yeah he said that Campbell was a player they felt was too good to pass up on and felt he can be a long term Redskin for us. Gibbs spoke highly of Campbell's size and ability to use his legs to get out of trouble. Gibbs emphasized, however, that Ramsey is the guy now to lead us to championships.

This also reminds me of when the Skins drafted Rypien back around 1987 I believe. Doug Williams was our guy, but Rypien was being groomed for our future. Once Rypien became our guy, Gibbs went out and drafted Stan Humphries to be groomed as Rypien's replacement if something happened to Mark. If you think about through Gibbs' first tenure, we really shouldn't be surprised by the acquisition of Chris Campbell. Gibbs expects Campbell to learn from Ramsey and Brunell. Joe also expects Ramsey to be our guy for the next few years and when it's time for Ramsey to step down or if he decides to go to a new team, we will have a fairly young guy who knows the system that we can just plug in![/QUOTE]

Actually it was 86 and he was a 6th rd pick and in 88 BEATHARD who drafted Rypien then drafted Humphries who also was a 6th rd pick, you see we drafted 2 project QB's in the 6th rd we didn't give up the following years draft for a QB to groom for 3 or 4 years, and that was before the salary cap, it's even more unrealistic now to draft a QB in the first rd and have him ride the pine for 3 years, and it will be longer than that once Ramsey solidifies the starting position.

It's a dumb move now, and in 3 years it will look even dumber. But we will have to wait for that to happen, but it will! Infact it will probably start the end of next season when draft time starts and we start looking at our need and remember again we can't address them because we have no draft, not that we would ever address a need with the draft.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

Would Gibbs come out and say "Wow, we really sucked it up at the draft. My bad."

NO. Of course he thinks we had a great draft.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]What I wouldn't give to have Curmudgeon stop using this same damn line every time, acting like we Redskins fans are a bunch of "meatheads" who think there's nothing between bust and Canton bust. Annoys the #$)(@& out of me...who's with me?[/QUOTE]


Definitely me. For one thing, not one time in any of my posts did I say Thrash, Jacobs, Ramsey or any current Redskins player is bound for Canton...maybe it's arguing for argument sake, but that just isn't a true statement.

Secondly, we have had many Redskins players in Gibbs' first tenure that were not hall of fame material, but contributed a great deal to the team's success. That is what I hope happens with the players in the current draft - but no S.C., again you will not find anything in my post saying that I expect them to be bound of Canton.

I only hope they contribute and add depth to the team and yes, I hope they turn out to be difference makers....but I'm not stupid.

In regards to the QBs of the past, Humphries didn't just all of a sudden become a good quarterback. Don't even assume Gibbs and his coaching staff had nothing to do with his development over the years. Humphries wanted to be a starting QB, and Gibbs was willing to stick with Rypien and why not? Rypien won the SB the year before Stan went to S.D., why put Stan in as starter when you have a Super Bowl MVP QB?

I believe my quite right in my assumptions as far as pattern. Jay Schrader was Joe Thiesmann's under study, Rypien was Williams understudy (and really probably was meant to be Schrader's understudy), Humphries for Rypien. And....another pattern, the veteran QBs: Williams, Rutledge, etc... It's quite similar to what will probably be our present day situation....Ramsey, Brunell, and Campbell.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]What proof do you have that we have no core players?[/QUOTE]


the good players the skins draft arent resigned.
the current drafted redskins are unhappy with the organization(ramsey, arrington , taylor and even jansen said he was angry when he heard the skins wanted to draft a qb because he is good friends with ramsey)


you cant pick and choose who are your core players.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

Yes I agree tht Gibbs has final say n given tht I find it really hard to swallow tht we drafted a QB by sacrifying 3 picks. Ever since he took over we have been giving away picks (actually even b4 tht too) like they are a plague. Yet u look at all the good teams they have built through the draft and developed players.
I thought with Gibbs back in the helm tht would change, but it has'nt. The thing tht erally annoys me is that there seems to be no clear direction form FO n management, be it from the Coles incident to the Campbell leak. We are being made butt of all jokes and being in Texas makes it even harder.
With all the changes tht Snyder n now Gibbs have made I see us taking steps backwards after any progress we make. I am sorry now Gibbs has to earn my respect as team president, 'cause tht draft pick was a bonehead move on his part n it will bite him in the ass just the Brunell trade did. God did I hate the trade then and do I hate it even more now.


[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I think that it's either Gibbs or a GM. I don't think Gibbs would have come back if he didn't have final say on football decisions. So even if we did bring in a GM he'd still answer to Gibbs right?[/QUOTE]

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]TAFKAS:

I promise not to use that argument again as long as someone does not try to argue that James Thrash is part of a wide receiving corps that will strike fear in the hearts of every defensive coordinator in the NFL.

Deal?[/QUOTE]

......yet nobody has said such, interesting.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]......yet nobody has said such, interesting.[/QUOTE]

True, but if that's what it takes to get SC to stop then so be it

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=jamf]the good players the skins draft arent resigned.
the current drafted redskins are unhappy with the organization(ramsey, arrington , taylor and even jansen said he was angry when he heard the skins wanted to draft a qb because he is good friends with ramsey)


you cant pick and choose who are your core players.[/QUOTE]


Like who exactly are you talking about that has not resigned currently? I haven't seen anything where Ramsey or Jansen want to leave the team. Saying you're angry over something is one thing, but that does not prove they are unhappy overall with the organization.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I wanted Williams, but I could see the CB pick. Rogers was #2 on my CB board and PacMan was gone. He's a good player, I would have preferred Williams, a lot, but I could stomach the pick. Campbell however...[/QUOTE]


exactly!

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

SC,

I have never read a post here that claimed our wide receiving corps will strike fear in to the hearts of every DC in the NFL. What makes you think that someone would actually make that argument?

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

Jason Campbell was a courageous draft pick by Joe Gibbs.

The reality is that Gibbs is not convinced that Ramsey is the best player to rest the Redskins' future on. I love that we can give Ramsey a last chance and bring Campbell along without the pressure.

I also am glad Mark Brunell is on the team. With him being at full health for next year, and with a stable offensive line, he may get a chance to show that the old Mark Brunell who has had such an admirable career can still play. People blithely dismiss Brunell and ignore the circumstances which dramatically limited his ability to perform. If Ramsey falters, we can go to Brunell, expect a much different calibur of play, and still let Campbell wait in the wings.

Ramsey still has a chance, and I wish him luck. But there is no way in my book that we should invest the future of the team in a player who has yet to show great promise. He may yet do that, but Gibbs owes it to the team and the fans not to gamble that Ramsey will develop the way we hope he will.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

That's a good post and I think you're right. Kind of brings me back to those days with Montana and the 49ers. Steve Young waited behind Montana for years...and when Montana was out with injury, Walsh could simply plug Young in and things went on business as usual. I believe that is the samething that Gibbs wants. You might have one great QB, but if he goes out, you want to know that there is someone you can plug into the system no problem.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

How can u believe that?? When was Ramsey given a chance by Gibbs. Ramsey is a good QB n in the right system n under a good coach who gave him confidence he would have done better.
We traded 3 PICKS for an unproven QB who a lot projected as a 2nd rounder!! As far as Brunell is concerned I think he should never come on the field when regular season starts. See with everything that is happening I am not amazed that Coles just up and left. When your own coaching staff is doing everything in the world to undermine you n your confidence, what's the point.
As far as Ramsey is concerned I firmly believe that Gibbs has not given him a leg to stand on n grow. This year instead of giving him more weapons like a dominant WR he drafts Campbell who will not see any playing time for atleast 2 years!! I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WE DRAFTED A QB!!


[QUOTE=Shane]Jason Campbell was a courageous draft pick by Joe Gibbs.

The reality is that Gibbs is not convinced that Ramsey is the best player to rest the Redskins' future on. I love that we can give Ramsey a last chance and bring Campbell along without the pressure.

I also am glad Mark Brunell is on the team. With him being at full health for next year, and with a stable offensive line, he may get a chance to show that the old Mark Brunell who has had such an admirable career can still play. People blithely dismiss Brunell and ignore the circumstances which dramatically limited his ability to perform. If Ramsey falters, we can go to Brunell, expect a much different calibur of play, and still let Campbell wait in the wings.

Ramsey still has a chance, and I wish him luck. But there is no way in my book that we should invest the future of the team in a player who has yet to show great promise. He may yet do that, but Gibbs owes it to the team and the fans not to gamble that Ramsey will develop the way we hope he will.[/QUOTE]

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

the more i think about it, the less bad the campbell pick seems. ive read a lot of ppls arguments for the pick, and it makes sense to have 2 quality players at the position. ramsey is going into a contract year i believe, and if he doesnt pan out, then campbell will be ready right away. the competition could push ramsey like it did brees to have a breakout year. who knows.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

jaws also thought campbell was better than rogers because he can make "all the throws" and other stuff, so this wasnt as far a reach as a lot of ppl may think

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

[QUOTE=Shane]Jason Campbell was a courageous draft pick by Joe Gibbs.

The reality is that Gibbs is not convinced that Ramsey is the best player to rest the Redskins' future on. I love that we can give Ramsey a last chance and bring Campbell along without the pressure.

I also am glad Mark Brunell is on the team. With him being at full health for next year, and with a stable offensive line, he may get a chance to show that the old Mark Brunell who has had such an admirable career can still play. People blithely dismiss Brunell and ignore the circumstances which dramatically limited his ability to perform. If Ramsey falters, we can go to Brunell, expect a much different calibur of play, and still let Campbell wait in the wings.

Ramsey still has a chance, and I wish him luck. But there is no way in my book that we should invest the future of the team in a player who has yet to show great promise. He may yet do that, but Gibbs owes it to the team and the fans not to gamble that Ramsey will develop the way we hope he will.[/QUOTE]

So how was Ramseys circumstances different from Brunell, other than Brunell having the good pleasure of working with the first team and getting the majority of reps for half a season? Ramsey outplayed Brunell under worse conditions than Brunell encountered, but Brunell we are to believe was a victim of circumstances? If any body gets that kind of slack its Ramsey.

The fact that you give Brunell such praise should only bolster confidence in ramsey considering he outplayed such a savey QB, with less experience in the same offense.

I will say this for the last time Ramsey is more talented than Rypien, Schroeder, Williams, or Humphries, but he's been thrown to the wolves since day 1 give the guy a chance to have some stability, all I here is how we came on at the end of last season, but Ramsey has to go, he played half a season last year in a new offense, AGAIN! And yes it was the second half.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

I am sick of the ... "oh our front office is SOooooo stupid as are "fans" who might be able to see the benefit in anything they do.. they are such meat heads.... " attitude that prevails on this and many other message boards at the moment .

Being pessimistic is not the same as being right as being optimist is not the same as being a true fan . The draft is as the draft has always been its a crap shoot . You could draft 20 guys all rated highest in their field and people would still whine because we did not pick their player who will go on to rule the NFL and yet the same people are not so high on them after they drop out of the league in 4 years time to sell real estate .

Can we at least wait until some of these players take to the field before we judge them . Equally can we give Gibbs time to build a team before we rip him and his plans to bits . What he has right now is the bits of teams left over from previous management's . Coles was a Spurrier guy, Gardner a Marty guy, McCants a Marty guy Ramsey Dan Snyders pick etc etc.

I see what Gibbs is trying to do is build a franchise, a team something that cannot be done over night. I might be wrong to have faith in what they are doing but I am at least giving them a chance, it doesn't make me any better or smarter but I for one see the core coming together but it doesn't necessary include the star players everyone mentions . The thing is the core is the glue that holds things together guys like dare I say it James Thrash, Ethan Albright, Joe Salve, Demetric Evans, Jon Jansen and Randy Thomas. In FA you are always going to loose some of the people you want to keep but so does every team. Do you really think the Colts wanted to loose Washington ? And before anyone says the players I mention aren't headed to Canton at any time need to look at who is already there and see if you can see Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, Art Monk, Joe Jacoby, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Chales Mann, Wilber Marshell or even Darrell Green in there ( although i am not sure he is eligible just yet but if Art cannot get in there you think Green will?)...

All I am saying is sure you can have your oppinion and I know no one is going to agree with me but dont please don't condescend other fans who may not have the same mind set as you do . If you hate what our front office is doing so bad to the point at which you cannot root for the Skins anymore then there are 31 other teams who could use your support and at the end of the day that is what fans are to for to support the team.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

"You maybe don't picture that" as the ideal draft pick in that situation, Gibbs said. "But I feel like for us and for the value to the organization long-term, I don't think you ever go wrong with a quarterback. I guess that's what I'm saying: If you've got somebody you think is talented and can play for you, I think you look at that and say, 'Where's the value of the pick?' And we felt like certainly he was the guy we needed to get."


You never go wrong with a QB?????????????

I can't believe Gibbs said that, it's like Brunell never happened?

$43mil and basically a season of stunting Ramseys growth and experience as a QB in his system, a third rd pick, and you can't go wrong??????

It's statements like that, that really make me wonder.

Between giving Portis who is a system back and making him a power back at 200lbs soak and wet, while handing him 50mil, and giving up a second rd pick besides Champ and all we heard is we HAD to have him, then the Brunell fiasco, and now Campbell, it's like the dallas cowboys are picking and signing players for us, we couldn't do a worse job if we tried, and Gibbs will defend every move to his grave, I am tired of it, I am tired of hearing this guy or that guy fought his guts out everytime he screws up, I am tired of hearing how important Brunell is to our team, I am tired of hearing about Clintons 1300 yards that Gibbs took 2 years off his NFL life trying to get ot justify the trade and the money, with no mention of his over 1 and a half yard decrease per carry, Gibbs needs to swallow his pride instead of continually trying to justify these moves because they are holding this team back.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

rather have it and not need it,than need it and not have it.

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

Call me crazy but I still dont see how Portis is a system back...

Re: Gibbs: "We had a really good draft!"
 

I've gone on record in the other threads and expressed my displeasure with the Redskins draft. The WR need could/should have been addressed with Mike Williams. I understand it more after hearing Gibbs talk about Rogers as someone who they expect to not only replace Smoot, but improve on what we had there.

Regarding Campbell.. I can see the long term logic in it and I guess as fans we need to look big picture. Despite the excuses we throw around for Ramsey, bottom line is he hasn't gotten it done to the point where QB is not a question mark. Gibbs, in spite of the Brunell debacle, hasn't been wrong on too many QB in the past, they have all been more successful under him than they were anywhere else.. He must see/feel that Ramsey has things that prevents him from being one of the elite QB in the league..

Yes, there were more immediate needs at other positions, but if you listen to what Gibbs says, he says clearly that he is rebuilding the FRANCHISE not a team. That means long term and he obviously doesn't see Ramsey as a long term franchise QB. Gibbs is rare in NFL circles that he doesn't have to draft for now in order to protect his job security.

If the defense returns to it's stature from last year, which is possible since they only lost 2 starters and are getting (hopefully) a healthy return of Barrow, Bowen and Arrington plus Rogers, then on that side of the ball we should be in every game. Offensively there are a ton of questions, no doubt about that. Can Ramsey perform? Can Moss be the game breaker he was in 2002/2003? Who else will emerge at WR? Will Gardner be back and be productive? Will a year in the system/adjustments to the gameplan make Portis the threat he was supposed to be when we traded for him? Those questions are going to make or break our season, not what happened in the past 72 hrs.