Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Good morning folks, as the dust settles from free agency and as I peruse our roster I see 2 gaping holes at starting spots still on vacant on the team. Right tackle and free safety positions have been severe problems for way too long on this team and with the remaining market available its wont be solved be this method.

The draft is thin at Free, but at Tackle there are many versatile players available in the college ranks, but none seem talented enough for a top 5 pick.

I would still keep my eye on Goldson in Tampa to see if he will be released. While Im not a huge fan, he is talented enough to start and be productive in this league on a 1 year deal. Stevie Brown has connections here, he is another I would at least bring in to gauge interest.

Right Tackle, Barksdale is still available and probably the most talented free agent left. Where above I would settle for Goldson as talented enough to still be productive, I dont see it in Barksdale with what his price is gonna command. I think we need to spend at least our 2nd round pick on Right Tackle.


Its frustrating for the last 5 years we seem to have the same discussions for these same damn positions. Whats your plan at these starting spots for 2015?

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Sure, an upgrade at Right Tackle is needed, but the 82 Hogs couldn't block for our starting QB. Bad QBs get sacked behind any line.

See Jason Campbell. Constantly under pressure, O-line blamed incessantly. Insert Todd Collins (not exactly a future hall of famer) and the pressure miraculously goes away.

The Line will play better when there's a capable QB behind them.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=44Deezel;1109650]Sure, an upgrade at Right Tackle is needed, but the 82 Hogs couldn't block for our starting QB. Bad QBs get sacked behind any line.

See Jason Campbell. Constantly under pressure, O-line blamed incessantly. Insert Todd Collins (not exactly a future hall of famer) and the pressure miraculously goes away.

The Line will play better when there's a capable QB behind them.[/quote]

But who is your starter, Compton? You bringing back Polumbus?

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

My 2015 plan:

FS - Bandaid on 1 year contract. Draft FS in 3rd or 4th Round. Also, have Amerson or Breeland compete for that position if DHall can go at CB.

RT - Draft. Trade down in 1st Round or trade up into mid first round to get one. Our 2nd round pick will be too late to get a starting-quality player. Try Xavier Nixon at RT, as well.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Personally I am more alarmed that we have no starting QB that we can count on.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

How about a blockibg TE? Sign Housler.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1109656]How about a blockibg TE? Sign Housler.[/quote]

Fred tighten up, trying to focus on actual starters, which right now we have a full stable of TEs. And Housler is a pass catching TE, not really known for his blocking.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Trade down and draft Brandon Scherff in the first round.
Move Hall or Amerson to safety.
Problem solved.
But I would get more serious about safety next year.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

RT - compton/polumbus

FS - thomas/duke/vet added late after roster trimming


there doesnt seem to be any real starting caliber options at FS and id rather wait another year than force a multi year deal on a player we dont really want.

next year is not a contending year so there is no urgency to force a move.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1109661]Trade down and draft Brandon Scherff in the first round.
Move Hall or Amerson to safety.
Problem solved.
But I would get more serious about safety next year.[/quote]

I dont think Hall would be a good fit for safety. I just dont see him being anywhere near physical enough to play in the middle of the field and running down hill to hit someone.

Hall is great at tracking the ball in the air and adjusting his body but has he slowed down so that he cant do that sideline to sideline?

Amerson has the size i could see him getting caught looking into the back field way too often and forgetting/missing assignments. i could see a lot of balls completed over the top bc amerson was caught looking in.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1109661]Trade down and draft Brandon Scherff in the first round.
[B]Move Hall or Amerson to safety.[/B]
Problem solved.
But I would get more serious about safety next year.[/quote]

People talk about DHall's lack of size being a detriment at FS but I look at his skill set. He has the ability to cover a lot of ground as well as exceptional ball skills to make a play when he gets there. He also has a nose for the ball when it's on the ground and he can return a turnover all the way to the house. I think we could possibly get some game-changing plays by moving DHall to FS. He certainly has the knowledge and experience to quickly make the transition.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=over the mountain;1109663]RT - compton/[B]polumbus[/B]

FS - thomas/duke/vet added late after roster trimming


there doesnt seem to be any real starting caliber options at FS and id rather wait another year than force a multi year deal on a player we dont really want.

next year is not a contending year so there is no urgency to force a move.[/quote]

Polumbus?! Please change your location from "close to the edge" to "gone over the edge".

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

I think succumbing to the natural tendency to solve every roster spot in the first season is how you get yourself into trouble. Scot McCloughan has laid out a clear vision for the kind of player he wants on this team: eats sleeps breathes football, bigger is better though not the end all be all, has an incredible passion inside to be great, build from the trenches out, etc.

The last thing you want to do is bastardize that vision just because you have a need. I wouldn't just pick up the next best safety or RT to fill a hole. I would accept that in 2015 we're going to have a hole or two.

I would stay McCloughan's course. Continue bringing in free agents for visits. Continue to interview them and assess their inner passion and inner drive. Continue watching tape until I get a headache. And continue calling their high school coaches to get a sense of their character.

And if after doing all that I still haven't found a FS or RT who I think is a diamond in the rough, then I roll with Compton and Phillip Thomas.

The goal is not to make the playoffs this year. The goal is to win a Super Bowl sometime in the intermediate future.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

We keep having these discussions b/c: (1) We haven't drafted to address the need - or when we have it didn't pan out immediately (Morgan); and (2) the free-agent market for these positions the last couple of years has been either pay big early or pick through a bunch of Just-A-Guys. On top of that, there didn't seem to be a plan in place for addressing problem areas.

We made a play for Rolle, he went elsewhere. It seemed like the marquee names at safety were at SS not FS. At tackle, outside of Baluga, who is there that is a definite upgrade over Polumbus? I agree, Compton doesn't look like the answer, but is there any reason to believe Barksdale is either?

I think we [I]should[/I] have spent money last year to address the FS position - not Byrd but one of the other guys getting $5-6M/yr. At tackle, they drafted a guy lots of folks wanted to take a round earlier and who was, as I remember, the best tackle on the board at the time. Still keeping my fingers crossed.

Don't know why these two positions are so difficult to fill but, in truth, every team has problem areas. By definition, every team can't have above average starters at every position. Just like every team has some above average starters, they are going to have some below average starters as well. We just keep getting stuck with them at these two positions.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

^ good point Schneed, I think there were some really really bad contracts for Right Tackle in Free Agency this year. I mean really terrible

Last year, remember the Jarius Byrd contract for the best free agent Free Safety? horrible mistake which has cost the Saints on the field as well as this year in free agency.

Sure I expected us not to fill every hole this year, but we still need starters.

Im convinced Doug Free would have been a Redskin if he didnt resign in Dallas. And I think McC has a Free Safety eyed in the draft.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1109668]I think succumbing to the natural tendency to solve every roster spot in the first season is how you get yourself into trouble. Scot McCloughan has laid out a clear vision for the kind of player he wants on this team: eats sleeps breathes football, bigger is better though not the end all be all, has an incredible passion inside to be great, build from the trenches out, etc.



The last thing you want to do is bastardize that vision just because you have a need. I wouldn't just pick up the next best safety or RT to fill a hole. I would accept that in 2015 we're going to have a hole or two.



I would stay McCloughan's course. Continue bringing in free agents for visits. Continue to interview them and assess their inner passion and inner drive. Continue watching tape until I get a headache. And continue calling their high school coaches to get a sense of their character.



And if after doing all that I still haven't found a FS or RT who I think is a diamond in the rough, then I roll with Compton and Phillip Thomas.



The goal is not to make the playoffs this year. The goal is to win a Super Bowl sometime in the intermediate future.[/QUOTE]


Nailed it.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

I think this is the year to find a RT to start developing, but that doesnt mean the problem will be solved this year. Hopefully this year will solve the problem for the future. I agree with what Schneed said, stay the course and understand that Rome wasnt built in a day... and neither was the Seattle Seahawks.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

i played right tackle in pop warner

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Here's the thing ... I think Scot McC has a long term plan to build the team with, as Schneed indicated, certain types of players. Holes will be plugged as necessary but not unless the pluggee fits McC's long term plan.

It's a process folks. What we've seen in free agency is a glimpse of it. Given that, I am cautiously optimistic.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Yeah safety is a spot where you can find players in the mid rounds. You won't get a Sean Taylor but at the same time with McC's history it's not unreasonable to expect a contributor. Still need the chips to fall your way in the draft, but he can fill that spot.

As for right tackle, if a RT is the best player on the board at our 2nd rounder, then ideal. But I wouldn't draft for need, I'd still draft BPA, even if it means we have to start Compton or Moses.

I'm counting on McCloughan to start geting us the guys who we'll never let hit the free agent market. It's easy to look around at free agency and set your expectations for available talent based on that. But it's important to remember that it consists almost entirely of B level players. The A level players never make it to free agency, except for the very rare Ndamakung Suh exception, teams lock up those players to extensions before they ever sniff free agency. Like we'll surely do with Trent and Kerrigan.

We need the A level guys. I hope McC drafts according to his vision for successful NFL players, position and need be damned.

If we get the next Luke Kuechly in the 3rd round and we have to start Tom Compton at RT, I'm definitely good with that over the long haul.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Schneed10;1109668]I think succumbing to the natural tendency to solve every roster spot in the first season is how you get yourself into trouble. Scot McCloughan has laid out a clear vision for the kind of player he wants on this team: eats sleeps breathes football, bigger is better though not the end all be all, has an incredible passion inside to be great, build from the trenches out, etc.

The last thing you want to do is bastardize that vision just because you have a need. I wouldn't just pick up the next best safety or RT to fill a hole. I would accept that in 2015 we're going to have a hole or two.

I would stay McCloughan's course. Continue bringing in free agents for visits. Continue to interview them and assess their inner passion and inner drive. Continue watching tape until I get a headache. And continue calling their high school coaches to get a sense of their character.

And if after doing all that I still haven't found a FS or RT who I think is a diamond in the rough, then I roll with Compton and Phillip Thomas.

The goal is not to make the playoffs this year. The goal is to win a Super Bowl sometime in the intermediate future.[/quote]
This made we get a little misty eyed. How long has it been since this team has embraced a dynastic view of team building that SM is apparently carrying out........

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=los panda;1109675]i played right tackle in pop warner[/quote]

By your own admission, you're over 30 years old. For that reason, I'd say we'd be better off drafting a RT to develop. Sorry.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1109667]Polumbus?! Please change your location from "close to the edge" to "gone over the edge".[/quote]

Lol, got em, nicely played.

I'm pretty satisfied with our free agency hall, I wouldn't mind if no one else was signed. I'd rather lock up Kerrigan and Williams for the next 5 years or so then find a free safety and right tackle in draft. Ideally we trade down and get one of the right tackles that are ranked as end of 1st round types then use other picks to round out secondary.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Schneed10;1109668]I think succumbing to the natural tendency to solve every roster spot in the first season is how you get yourself into trouble. Scot McCloughan has laid out a clear vision for the kind of player he wants on this team: eats sleeps breathes football, bigger is better though not the end all be all, has an incredible passion inside to be great, build from the trenches out, etc.

The last thing you want to do is bastardize that vision just because you have a need. I wouldn't just pick up the next best safety or RT to fill a hole. I would accept that in 2015 we're going to have a hole or two.

I would stay McCloughan's course. Continue bringing in free agents for visits. Continue to interview them and assess their inner passion and inner drive. Continue watching tape until I get a headache. And continue calling their high school coaches to get a sense of their character.

And if after doing all that I still haven't found a FS or RT who I think is a diamond in the rough, then I roll with Compton and Phillip Thomas.

The goal is not to make the playoffs this year. The goal is to win a Super Bowl sometime in the intermediate future.[/quote]

Boom. Roasted.


I'll add... getting a marginally more talented player to plug a hole for exceptionally more dollars has been our downfall for a while now. I'd rather be stuck with a crappy RT for one year than with a somewhat crappy RT for four years and a bunch of cap space. See Chester, Chris as an example.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=44Deezel;1109650]Sure, an upgrade at Right Tackle is needed, but the 82 Hogs couldn't block for our starting QB. Bad QBs get sacked behind any line.

See Jason Campbell. Constantly under pressure, O-line blamed incessantly. Insert Todd Collins (not exactly a future hall of famer) and the pressure miraculously goes away.

The Line will play better when there's a capable QB behind them.[/quote]

So which capable QB do you suggest we bring? Is there some rookie out there who will miraculously play well behind an average line? Not too many Andrew Lucks out there.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Lotus;1109654]Personally I am more alarmed that we have no starting QB that we can count on.[/quote]
............Bump

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Schneed10 hit on the head. You're not signing guys just to sign somebody. If there is no value at that position in FA or your draft position then you need to just roll with what you have until you find a true upgrade.

John Keim made a good point as well regarding the RT position.

John Keim: They were linked to two tackles: Derek Newton and Jermey Parnell. Newton re-signed with Houston; Parnell opted for Jacksonville. And once Bryan Bulaga re-signed with Green Bay, the tackle market turned bleak. I would be surprised if they don't make a move here, but there aren't great options left. Morgan Moses is dealing with his Lisfranc injury and we won't get any updates on that for a few weeks. My own opinion is there's no way he'd be ready to start this year. And I'm not sold on Tom Compton, but if nothing else at least he has experience. [B]But I will say: Their season does not hinge on right tackle. They won 10 games with poor right tackle play in 2013; other teams win despite bad lines. Seattle's line wasn't great and the Patriots had issues at guard. They need to upgrade but the point is, don't panic now.[/B]

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Let's also not forget the impact Bill Callahan can make on our current line. Maybe some good coaching is all they need?

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Redskins_P;1109704]Let's also not forget the impact Bill Callahan can make on our current line. Maybe some good coaching is all they need?[/quote]

Good point. Yeah completly agree with not making an irrational decision. I think most of the right tackles in free agency was were irrational contracts ..beluga, the cowboys backup Parnell(?) included. I think my original post stated just pointed out we needed starters still and what were the options. I think some have a hard time reading

But Callahan coming in could help tremendously.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Redskins_P;1109702]Schneed10 hit on the head. You're not signing guys just to sign somebody. If there is no value at that position in FA or your draft position then you need to just roll with what you have until you find a true upgrade.

John Keim made a good point as well regarding the RT position.

John Keim: They were linked to two tackles: Derek Newton and Jermey Parnell. Newton re-signed with Houston; Parnell opted for Jacksonville. And once Bryan Bulaga re-signed with Green Bay, the tackle market turned bleak. I would be surprised if they don't make a move here, but there aren't great options left. Morgan Moses is dealing with his Lisfranc injury and we won't get any updates on that for a few weeks. My own opinion is there's no way he'd be ready to start this year. And I'm not sold on Tom Compton, but if nothing else at least he has experience. [B]But I will say: Their season does not hinge on right tackle. They won 10 games with poor right tackle play in 2013; other teams win despite bad lines. Seattle's line wasn't great and the Patriots had issues at guard. They need to upgrade but the point is, don't panic now.[/B][/quote]

Well, Seattle doesn't depend on their passing play to win games and the Pats have a HoF'er QB that can play behind any line.

The Redskins season will hinge on how much they can move away from being QB dependent, focus on the run, and have this improved defense keeping the game manageable for the offense.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Redskins_P;1109704]Let's also not forget the impact Bill Callahan can make on our current line. Maybe some good coaching is all they need?[/quote]

And hopefully he does a better job at developing our young players.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

Can't fix the entire team in one year. Hopefully these positions are addressed in the draft and undrafted free agents.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

I would like Goldson from tampa hay!. Two year contract 6M. Draft Amos to study under him for two years then promote him to starter.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Chico23231;1109649]Good morning folks, as the dust settles from free agency and as I peruse our roster I see 2 gaping holes at starting spots still on vacant on the team. Right tackle and free safety positions have been severe problems for way too long on this team and with the remaining market available its wont be solved be this method.

The draft is thin at Free, but at Tackle there are many versatile players available in the college ranks, but none seem talented enough for a top 5 pick.

I would still keep my eye on Goldson in Tampa to see if he will be released. While Im not a huge fan, he is talented enough to start and be productive in this league on a 1 year deal. Stevie Brown has connections here, he is another I would at least bring in to gauge interest.

Right Tackle, Barksdale is still available and probably the most talented free agent left. Where above I would settle for Goldson as talented enough to still be productive, I dont see it in Barksdale with what his price is gonna command. I think we need to spend at least our 2nd round pick on Right Tackle.


[B]Its frustrating for the last 5 years we seem to have the same discussions for these same damn positions. Whats your plan at these starting spots for 2015?[/B][/quote]

the last line is as true as truth can be!!!

Has SM been a trader in the past, or has his drafts tended to be the picks he goes in with. I could see him being the kind of guy that knows the position each of his draft picks is at and him knowing exactly what/who he wants there.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=44Deezel;1109650]Sure, an upgrade at Right Tackle is needed, but the 82 Hogs couldn't block for our starting QB. Bad QBs get sacked behind any line.

See Jason Campbell. Constantly under pressure, O-line blamed incessantly. Insert Todd Collins (not exactly a future hall of famer) and the pressure miraculously goes away.

The Line will play better when there's a capable QB behind them.
[/quote]

check out this play. watch how Everson Griffin and Anthony Barr pretend like our Oline is invisible. dude has to make a highlight play just to dump it off on a checkdown? right side is garbage. period. nothing to do with qb.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/2014-Top-Moments-Griffin-III-Helu-Escape-Vikings/30e8790c-ba63-480e-87ea-27abc7098b89]2014 Top Moments: Griffin III, Helu Escape Vikings[/url]

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1109742]I would like Goldson from tampa hay!. Two year contract 6M. Draft Amos to study under him for two years then promote him to starter.[/quote]

I would rather eat clam chowder directly off of a public bathroom floor than pay Dashon Goldson 3 million dollars a year.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Skins4L;1109961]check out this play. watch how Everson Griffin and Anthony Barr pretend like our Oline is invisible. dude has to make a highlight play just to dump it off on a checkdown? right side is garbage. period. nothing to do with qb.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/2014-Top-Moments-Griffin-III-Helu-Escape-Vikings/30e8790c-ba63-480e-87ea-27abc7098b89]2014 Top Moments: Griffin III, Helu Escape Vikings[/url][/quote]


looks like he ran back too far, beyond where the OL was supposed to set on that play. there was a pocket there, he was just 10 feet behind it.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=That Guy;1109963]looks like he ran back too far, beyond where the OL was supposed to set on that play. there was a pocket there, he was just 10 feet behind it.[/quote]

RG3 immediately took a 3 step drop out of shotgun.

Who knows if the play was designed to be a 3 step drop out of shotgun. i dont. I do know it must be frustrating to be a tackle, you block for a 3-5 step drop perfectly but your QB decided to take a 10 step drop, fans blame you for the sack anyway.

i imagine every D coord just tells his edge rushers to go wide and up the field 10 yards, dont worry the QB will be there.

- it looks like a busted screen play

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

he actually took a 5 step drop out of shotgun, i'm pretty sure that's not normal.

to be fair, compton got completely manhandled too. it is what it is i guess.

Re: Right Tackle and Free Safety
 

[quote=Skins4L;1109961]check out this play. watch how Everson Griffin and Anthony Barr pretend like our Oline is invisible. dude has to make a highlight play just to dump it off on a checkdown? right side is garbage. period. nothing to do with qb.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/2014-Top-Moments-Griffin-III-Helu-Escape-Vikings/30e8790c-ba63-480e-87ea-27abc7098b89]2014 Top Moments: Griffin III, Helu Escape Vikings[/url][/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/02/rg3-took-sacks-last-season-at-a-historic-rate/]RG3 took sacks last season at a historic rate | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Yea right. Doesn't have a darn thing to do with our QB huh.