What If?
 

What happen's if Ramsey come's out firing this season and becomes the QB some of us envision, he then becomes the unquestionable starter, and the skins are now his team, what do we do? No doubt he will want to break the bank at this point, and I can't blame him, as well as having a #1 pick sitting on the bench for who know's how long. The Campbell pick is predicated on Ramsey failing. If he succeed's?

Re: What If?
 

No doubt about it. We would have to trade Ramsey. One, because Ramsey has value. And two, because Brunell doesn't. Plus, you got to have a veteran QB on your roster. And no, Ramsey is not a veteran. Teams would look at a proposed trade for Campbell but, they would want to see him play more against NFL competition before they trade for him. :oink:

Re: What If?
 

that would be amazing if Ramsey succeeds becuaes that means that we will have done well this year, which is clearly what all of us should want. Having two good qbs is a great problem to have.

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[QUOTE=BossHog]No doubt about it. We would have to trade Ramsey. One, because Ramsey has value. And two, because Brunell doesn't. Plus, you got to have a veteran QB on your roster. And no, Ramsey is not a veteran. Teams would look at a proposed trade for Campbell but, they would want to see him play more against NFL competition before they trade for him. :oink:[/QUOTE]

You dont trade Ramsey. Absolutley not; look at San Diego this year... they did the smart thing. Rivers is the unproven commodity, and they have a perfectly good team; and you dont mess that up. If Ramsey came out and became the guy we would all love him to be, you cant trade him and replace him with an unproven guy like Campbell. I dont care if we wasted the first round pick or not, you dont mess with a team like that if its succeeding and a guy is finally clicking in the system. I would say if this happened, you keep Ramsey the one more year of his contract and make sure he is not a one year wonder, and then if he keeps it up, you sign him big and do somthing with Campbell. I think alot of people are under the impression that this is Ramseys last year of his contract (not anyone in perticular, i just get that vibe); but he'll still be around in 2006. Of course I would love for this scenerio to play out this way, and I hope Ramsey has a very good year.

Re: What If?
 

I like campbell and think he has more potential. And I wish he would just start week one. But hes not going to, and its probably best becuase in general rookies arent ready. But I dont want ramsey to just suck so we put in campbell becuase im tired of us losing. If Ramsey is our guy then I hope he is a probowler.

Re: What If?
 

If Ramsey shows us this year that he can be MontanaISH, then you keep him. Pay him for what he's worth if his contract is up. If it isn't, prepare for the future (contract), but make sure you keep Campbell as well. Unless Brunell show dramatic improvement, I think you have to cut him if he's not willing to accept third string.

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I could see Ramsey vs. Campbell being very similar to Brees vs. Rivers. If we could only get rid of Brunell.

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This was sort of touched on the day of the draft. The only way i see Ramsey staying at the end of his contract is if there just isn't any team really after him. If I were PR I would bail. The Skins FO/coachs have shown no loyality or belief in him at all.

If he does pretty well this year he still could get pushed out of the way for the 5th year of his contract if the FO doesn't think they can resign. Plus there will be presure to show that they didn't waste all those picks on Campbell. I think the FO will really show what they are thinking by the size and scope of Campbells contract.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=Hijinx]This was sort of touched on the day of the draft. The only way i see Ramsey staying at the end of his contract is if there just isn't any team really after him. If I were PR I would bail. The Skins FO/coachs have shown no loyality or belief in him at all.

If he does pretty well this year he still could get pushed out of the way for the 5th year of his contract if the FO doesn't think they can resign. Plus there will be presure to show that they didn't waste all those picks on Campbell. I think the FO will really show what they are thinking by the size and scope of Campbells contract.[/QUOTE]


Yes and no, I think the only one in the organazation that hasen't been loyal to Ramsey is Gibbs, not that he owed Patrick anything, I just feel Gibbs pretty much brushed Patrick aside last year without giving him any real consideration. Remember Patrick is Danny's boy, he drafted him, Snyder also didn't want Brunell in here either, and in all liklyhood it was because he believed in Patrick, but as of now the organazation stop's with Gibbs, so yes Patrick has to do backflip's to get some respect from Gibbs.

Re: What If?
 

but if he stinks it up look at the money we save by cutting/trading him next year over 2 mil. It is a give and take but if he is good we resign him and if we can't afford it we don't sign him after his contract is over and if we get a trade next year that is a savings of 2 mil. i think we would resign him but if we can't afford him "what ya gonna do?"

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=BossHog]No doubt about it. We would have to trade Ramsey. One, because Ramsey has value. And two, because Brunell doesn't. Plus, you got to have a veteran QB on your roster. [U]And no, Ramsey is not a veteran.[/U] Teams would look at a proposed trade for Campbell but, they would want to see him play more against NFL competition before they trade for him. :oink:[/QUOTE]
If Ramsey starts every game this season, he will have 45 career starts. That's a veteran. He currently has a positive TD-to-INT ratio, something any coach would look for in a veteran QB (starter or backup). I want Ramsey to succeed as a Redskin more than anything, but it's wise to prepare for the possibility that he won't do so. Having a QB on the roster learning the offense and the speed of the league is a good thing.

Re: What If?
 

I'm way more hyped about this season than last year with the whole 'return of the king' episode. Ramsey has had (will have had) all offseason to learn,and coming off a strong finish in '04, hewil be the man.I truly believe he has the intellegence, confidence and talent to silence all of his doubters. And when I say doubters I mean everyone associated with the NFL.

Re: What If?
 

Why is it that so many people feel Ramsay has gotten such a bad rap from our coaches and front office. Is QB the only position that we don't want any competition. If we signe a few RB does Portis now feel threatend? I Don't think so. Ramsey is the starter and its his job to keep or loose. Last year Ramsey played poorly in preseason and could not keep his starting roll. He could not outperform burnell. Think of that he could not outperform Brunell in preseason . You can make the argument that his convidence was shaken but he was not competing against Manning. Its time for him to show that he is our starting QB and if he is unable to perform we have another QB who is not Brunell who we have start to groom. I am a Ramsey fan and would love to see him take that next step in his game but we do have to be prepared if he does not.

Re: What If?
 

I think the reason people feel that way is because Ramsey was brushed aside pretty soundly when Brunell came into town. I know it was an open competition in camp, but when you have an entrenched starter, I don't feel that should be the case.

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I know that Betts was also brushed aside when Portis showed up, but I don't recall Betts being drafted as our #1 back (even though I really like the way the guy runs).

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I thought Gibbs made it pretty clear that it was an open compition for QB. Now if when Brunell came in and all of the attention and reps went to Brunell than thats a laget argument. I thought things were split about 50/50 at first until they decided who the starter was.

Re: What If?
 

With the kind of emphasis Gibbs puts on the QB position, there is no way he'd trade Ramsey if he has a good year.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I know that Betts was also brushed aside when Portis showed up, but I don't recall Betts being drafted as our #1 back (even though I really like the way the guy runs).[/QUOTE]I like Betts too but we should all agree that was a definite upgrade. I do think Gibbs needs to get Betts more involved in the game.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Yes and no, I think the only one in the organazation that hasen't been loyal to Ramsey is Gibbs, not that he owed Patrick anything, I just feel Gibbs pretty much brushed Patrick aside last year without giving him any real consideration. Remember Patrick is Danny's boy, he drafted him, Snyder also didn't want Brunell in here either, and in all liklyhood it was because he believed in Patrick, but as of now the organazation stop's with Gibbs, so yes Patrick has to do backflip's to get some respect from Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

Loyal?
Didn't Ramsey have a terrible preseason? Didn't Brunell play better than Ramsey during the preseason? Gibbs even gave Ramsey a start or two in the preseason and gave him a fair /even chance at the starting position. When it was time for Ramsey to prove himself ON THE FIELD, he failed miserably this last preseason.
Loyalty has to be earned. You do not get loyalty just because you are a first round pick. IF it worked that way we would still have Heath Shuler as our starter and we would have never drafted Ramsey.

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[QUOTE=firstdown]I like Betts too but we should all agree that was a definite upgrade. I do think Gibbs needs to get Betts more involved in the game.[/QUOTE]

To clarify, Portis is the best runner by far. I'm just saying I've liked the way Betts has played even when overshadowed by a premier back like Portis.

Re: What If?
 

it is definitely a make or break year for Ramsey. if he has a good year, he'll be back next season, to give Campbell that much more time to prepare himself. beyond this season and next is a crap shoot at best. Guys like Marino, Montana, Young just don't come about anymore. the closest we have now is Brady, McNabb, Manning, and Culpepper, and they aren't in the upper echelon just yet. if the Skins can get 2 good seasons out of Ramsey, and prepare Campbell for the future, then Gibbs will be set at the QB position.

If Ramsey has a crappy year, the Skins will be rebuilding once again, and will be looking for another QB to mold into a Gibbs QB while Campbell and Brunell take the reins.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]To clarify, Portis is the best runner by far. I'm just saying I've liked the way Betts has played even when overshadowed by a premier back like Portis.[/QUOTE]I agree and I knew what you ment in your first post.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Loyal?
Didn't Ramsey have a terrible preseason? Didn't Brunell play better than Ramsey during the preseason? Gibbs even gave Ramsey a start or two in the preseason and gave him a fair /even chance at the starting position. When it was time for Ramsey to prove himself ON THE FIELD, he failed miserably this last preseason.
Loyalty has to be earned. You do not get loyalty just because you are a first round pick. IF it worked that way we would still have Heath Shuler as our starter and we would have never drafted Ramsey.[/QUOTE]I totaly agree, that was the same point I made in my post. He was given the opportunity and he just failed to make the most of it. I just hope he can prove himself this year and solidify the starting roll and we don't have to have these threeds about who our starting QB is for the next six to seven years. We as a team need to have a solid satrter and leader to build around. Not this who sould we try next year end and year out.

Re: What If?
 

Perhaps Ramsey did have a fair shot at being the starter heading into the preseason, but I doubt it. Given the size of Brunell's contract, I find it very hard to believe that Gibbs believed at the outset that there was a 50/50 chance that Brunell would be riding the pine. It seems far more likely that there was a presumption that Brunell would be starting, unless Ramsey really lit things up during the preseason. In other words, it may be true that Ramsey had a chance to start -- but not an even chance.

As for this year, I think that Ramsey will fulfill more of his potential. Unfortunately, I'd have to agree w/the folks that say he's unlikely to stay when his contract expires. Given the lack of confidence that this team has shown in him, I can't say that I'd blame him for taking the first bus out of town ...

Re: What If?
 

What we want here is a Drew Brees situation. If Ramsey blows up that is what we all want. Take us to the playoffs, let Campbell develop. I worry about 2006 when it comes. I just hope Ramsey gets it done. This is a problem I would be happy to have.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie].... Guys like Marino, Montana, Young just don't come about anymore. the closest we have now is Brady, McNabb, Manning, and Culpepper, and they aren't in the upper echelon just yet....[/QUOTE]

Roethlisberger had a good start of his career last year, looking good so far. Best rookie year of any NFL QB yet.
If the Colts ever get a defense (Defense wins championships) Manning could be one the greats like Montana.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Loyal?
Didn't Ramsey have a terrible preseason? Didn't Brunell play better than Ramsey during the preseason? Gibbs even gave Ramsey a start or two in the preseason and gave him a fair /even chance at the starting position. When it was time for Ramsey to prove himself ON THE FIELD, he failed miserably this last preseason.
Loyalty has to be earned. You do not get loyalty just because you are a first round pick. IF it worked that way we would still have Heath Shuler as our starter and we would have never drafted Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

I agree, Ramsey didn't do much to convince the staff last preseason that he should be the starter. Neither did Brunell, difference was Brunell was a proven vet and for Gibbs that meant alot.

Now coming into camp this year, Ramsey has proven that he can operate Gibbs' offense and he's begun to be a guy the staff believes can lead the team.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72].....Now coming into camp this year, Ramsey has proven that he can operate Gibbs' offense and he's begun to be a guy the staff believes can lead the team.[/QUOTE]

I agree, and Ramsey earned/proved that to Gibbs on the playing field. Something Ramsey could not do last preseason.

Re: What If?
 

Ramsey didn't impress me one bit in last year's preseason - nor - did Mark Brunell. Neither guy looked like someone who could lead a team to the playoffs. I think Ramsey does have the ability, but he's going to have to prove it this season. Who knows, Brunell may come out and look like the Brunell of old....I'm not holding my breath, but now that would be very interesting.

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I hope we never get to see Brunell "come out". I'd love to see Campbell straight up, beat him up for the #2 position.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I hope we never get to see Brunell "come out". I'd love to see Campbell straight up, beat him up for the #2 position.[/QUOTE]


If that were to happen, Brunell would be the highest paid #3 QB in the history of the NFL.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Ramsey didn't impress me one bit in last year's preseason - nor - did Mark Brunell. Neither guy looked like someone who could lead a team to the playoffs. I think Ramsey does have the ability, but he's going to have to prove it this season. Who knows, Brunell may come out and look like the Brunell of old....I'm not holding my breath, but now that would be very interesting.[/QUOTE]If I remember correctly Hasselback looked better than both in the little action he got in preseason.

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]If that were to happen, Brunell would be the highest paid #3 QB in the history of the NFL.[/QUOTE]

Very true, but I'd rather have a high-paid old #3 sitting the bench rather than a possible QB of the future not getting any reps in real games.

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dont forget that Ramsey was coming off foot surgery just before preseason last year. He could barely walk like a month prior.

Re: What If?
 

I don't think that really had anything to do with how he did. He doesn't have too much mobility so I wouldn't say that was affected.

I really think it was a combination of a LOT of things that was a problem for Ramsey:

- new coach
- new offensive philosophy
- Brunell coming in
- Brunell taking his job
- Jansen going down
- being inserted halfway into the season
- having a hurt/bad receiving corps

I would say the list can go on and on. Most of the things on the list that I would consider to be the biggest problems are not alleviated and I think that will make Ramsey a better all-around QB. Big positives are:

- great QB coach
- a year in the new system
- the job "officially" his this year

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We can't have a situation like Sandiego next year though. We don't have the cap space to franchise Patrick. Hell we couldn't franchise one of our 2 definsive core redskins this year...

Re: What If?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I agree, Ramsey didn't do much to convince the staff last preseason that he should be the starter. Neither did Brunell, difference was Brunell was a proven vet and for Gibbs that meant alot.

Now coming into camp this year, Ramsey has proven that he can operate Gibbs' offense and he's begun to be a guy the staff believes can lead the team.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! What did Brunell do in the pre-season to establish himself over Ramsey? I will tell you, 1 long TD pass to McCant's, did McCants establish himself in the pre-season? Yes, did he play? No, The fact that Brunell played as bad as he did in the pre-season being the veteran that he is should have raised a red flag in Gibbs mind. On the other hand Ramsey was a young QB trying to learn a new offence which Joey T. said would take at least 6 to 10 games to really understand, I guess the same went for Brunell.

I agree with Matty that Gibbs comfort level was with a veteran, but as we saw it may take a veteran just as long to learn Gibbs offense as a youngster. As it turns out Brunell was a horrible signing, Gibbs should have shown a little more confidence in Ramsey from day 1 we would be much farther along as a team if he did, We would have a much better gauge of Ramsey as a QB in his system, and would have a better idea of where we stand as a team, it also may have prevented us from throwing away next years draft on Campbell.

Basically the same old, either your for Ramsey or against him. I just think Ramsey will be a tremendous QB for us givin the chance, but I know there are plenty here that will disagree, nothing wrong with that, once the season starts we then find out who had it right, difference of opinion makes this a lot of fun!

Re: What If?
 

The good thing is, I don't think anyone is really "against" Ramsey (besides SKINZ_DOMIN8 :Smoker:) Some people might not think he is the QB of the future, but I think that (most) everyone here is happy with how he played down the stretch and know he at least has the physical gifts to possibly BE the QB we know he can be.

Re: What If?
 

Ramsey will wreck things this year...we will be SD all over again.
Unless Ramsey smokes too much crack with Ade jimoh in the offseason.

Re: What If?
 

My point is that we are in somewhat of a lose/lose position in that even if Ramsey does really well this year I dont see him staying because of what has happened in the past. Now that might not mean anything if Campbell turns out well. HOWEVER swicthing QBs every two to three years is how we got to the point where we haven't had a winning record since '99.(Yes I know this is but one of many reasons)