We need O-Line help
 

We got Rabach and Jansen is returning....yipee skipee.
Will Jansen be the same?
Rabach is an upgrade...I hope he is a huge upgrade.
Nowland, Warner, Alston, Gonzales, etc. are unknown commodities.
Raymer and Freidman stink.
Gibbs is unimpressed with Wilson and Molinaro.
Ray Brown knew Adam and Eve personally.
Dockery is a decent backup on any team but a starter on ours.
That scares me.
Thomas is very good and Samuels is great.
Where is our depth?
Do we need to do some trading for help?
Is Ramsey going to be on his back all the time again?
Do we end up 8-8 or less?

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Jansen will be ready to go this season, also Rabach is a hugh upgrade compared to Raymer. Ray Brown, even though he is signed as a player, is slated to be more of a coach than a player, I read somewhere that the coaching staff wants to groom Brown to eventually be an assistant o-line coach.

My question for you is this, where did you hear that Gibbs is "unimpressed" with Molinaro and Wilson? If this were true dont you think that Gibbs would have drafted accordingly? I think that they will be fine. Also who do we trade to get help on the line? Who do we trade for?

I really dont think that Ramsey will be on his back this season. Look at how he was protected last season with a shitty line. Ramsey even said that he felt more protected last season. I think that our O-Line has great upside if they all can get on the same page...

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]Jansen will be ready to go this season, also Rabach is a hugh upgrade compared to Raymer. Ray Brown, even though he is signed as a player, is slated to be more of a coach than a player, I read somewhere that the coaching staff wants to groom Brown to eventually be an assistant o-line coach.

My question for you is this, where did you hear that Gibbs is "unimpressed" with Molinaro and Wilson? If this were true dont you think that Gibbs would have drafted accordingly? I think that they will be fine. Also who do we trade to get help on the line? Who do we trade for?

I really dont think that Ramsey will be on his back this season. Look at how he was protected last season with a shitty line. Ramsey even said that he felt more protected last season. I think that our O-Line has great upside if they all can get on the same page...[/QUOTE]


Drafting accordingly leaves something to be desired with this draft, although I think Molinaro and Wilson are highly thought of.

It is why I wanted Chris Spencer though.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Drafting accordingly leaves something to be desired with this draft, although I think Molinaro and Wilson are highly thought of.

It is why I wanted Chris Spencer though.[/QUOTE]
I agree that Molinaro and Wilson are highly thought of also. I think that one of them may even make a pretty good push to start this year. Also didnt Greg Williams use one of them as a DT in the Lions game last year?

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Our line is fine. In fact, it should be one of the stengths of our team. Look at it like this.... If our defensive line, that we all thought would be weak last year, did what it did with proper coaching, our o-line should have no excuses.

This year we have a very good starting line, and experienced depth.

We don't need help.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Exactly. Not only that, with players returning, we may be able to run *gasp* THREE WR sets.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

The line suffered last year because, while it had talent, it wasn't well-suited to running a Gibbs-style running attack. With Gibbs' running game, you have a lot of lineman pulling around the edge, trapping, and blocking down. It takes a lot of quickness to move into position and make those types of blocks, and I don't think the athleticism was there. Obviously Jansen is a ton more athletic than Ray Brown, being that he's like 87 years old. He usually had trouble sealing off the edge. Raymer had serious trouble pulling and getting to the linebackers. He had that achilles issue a few years ago, and plus he's old, he's just not mobile enough.

Jansen returning is a plus over Ray Brown, though he's just coming off the achilles issue too, so I have to wonder about how strong his first step will be. Rabach is TONS more athletic than Raymer, he's a guy that can actually get to where he needs to be. I thought Randy Thomas played great last year, and Samuels was good given the fact that he was nagged all season by injuries. Dockery just seems OK, I don't think he's a guy you want pulling all that often. Overall, I think it's a real good line.

Also, the increased athleticism helps on the stretch plays that Portis got to run last year.

The big thing about blocking though, I don't think the Redskins had a TE worth two craps last year. Rasby was supposed to be a great blocker but he played like hell. And Cooley doesn't run people over. I'm hoping that with these two fullbacks, we'll have a bit more punch in short yardage.

As for pass protection, I don't think you can ask for anything better than what we've got on our O-line. They should excel in pass protection.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Gibbs is unimpressed with Wilson and Molinaro??

News to me.

I don't know where people come up with some stuff, seriously.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

they get their info from some other skins site thats not nearly as reputable as we are ;)
Clearly we are the the place to go for Skins news.

Aside from that, i agree with those that think our oline is fine, or great even. Dockery is the only question mark in my mind, and we have a lot of young bodies to mix into that spot if he doesnt step it up this year

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Gibbs is unimpressed with Wilson and Molinaro??

News to me.

I don't know where people come up with some stuff, seriously.[/QUOTE]
No kidding.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

We need O-line help.

That's cute.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

If anything our O-line should be vastly improved. The only lineman I see having a question mark over his head is Dockery. The rest of the guys are solid, and would be starters on any team in the NFL. Randy Thomas is by far one of the most underrated Guards, and Jansen is an underrated tackle. Samuels always gets the spotlight simply because he was a high draft pick. I like Rabach as well.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]If anything our O-line should be vastly improved. The only lineman I see having a question mark over his head is Dockery. The rest of the guys are solid, and would be starters on any team in the NFL. Randy Thomas is by far one of the most underrated Guards, and Jansen is an underrated tackle. Samuels always gets the spotlight simply because he was a high draft pick. I like Rabach as well.[/QUOTE]

Where is our depth at center and guard?
Show me the experienced personnel we have.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Besides Dockery, we are solid. Hopefully, Buges will be able to do something with ole Derrick. Also, if the line was an area of concern, Bugel would have been trumpeting his concern into Joe's ear and we probably would have drafted for line help in the later rounds. Back in the early eighties, we drafted a guy named Mark May who lots of fans hated and Buges took limited ability and made him a HOG. Maybe he can do the same with Dock.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=aprius]Where is our depth at center and guard?
Show me the experienced personnel we have.[/QUOTE]


Friedman and Raymer. They're both vets, and have started in the league before. Granted they might not be the best backups, but I think we can survive with them.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Ray Brown can play just about any spot on the OL, he's going to be great for depth.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

I agree with Matty72...
aprius- your post is a little bit too much doom and gloom. Gibbs inherited a lousy, unperforming team. You must be one those fans that expected a Super Bowl apperance/ miracle year right off the bat.
Frankly, our O-line has 3 of the 5 positions manned by very good (pro-bowl type) players: Samuels, Jansen and Thomas. That is a great start.
The new guy - Rabach is the perfect physical type center we lacked last year. Dockery is the only question mark and he has good potential. Bugel has a great reputation for developing young O-lineman. Wilson and Molinaro were young inexperienced rookies last year. Lets give them a chance to improve before we trash them.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

We can't have Pro Bowlers at [I]every[/I] position...........

Re: We need O-Line help
 

I don't care if Wilson and Molinaro are well thought of. Mother Teresa is well thought of; but she never could block effectively against the blitz!

What I care about is whether or not either of these folks can play on the offensive line - - nothing else.

The Redskins' O-Line was very bad last year mainly due to Jansen's injury. It should be better this year barring a lot of injuries. But let's not get carried away and begin to categorize this crew as having three or four Hall of Fame candidates in there. Jansen is the best offensive lineman and he is coming back off an injury. There are several good players there but no great ones.

And if the OL has a bad year, an immobile Patrick Ramsey will be a sitting duck back there and may not make it though a full 16 game schedule. So, that's why the OL needs as much upgrading as is humanly possible.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

I think potential Pro Bowlers were the words used and I wouldn't completely disagree with that.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

I think we can all agree that we don't have any future Hall of Famers on our O-line.

But I thinks it's safe to say that we did improve it by signing Rabach, and by having Jansen back is a huge improvement by itself.

Another minicamp/training camp under Buges helps also. Judging by the way the line played last year, I'm sure Buges will be on these guys like flies on shit. I'm very optimistic about our O-line next year.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

What about Nowland, Warner, Gonzalez and Alston?

Will they be contributors, Practice squad??

Re: We need O-Line help
 

they will be contributors. samuels is solid, dockery might have some competition, rabach will be solid, thomas is underrated, and jansen is underrated also. the only question mark is dockery. will he perform at the highest level, or will he be replaced with a backup? only dockery can answer that question. i see our o line as one of the best in the league now.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]I don't care if Wilson and Molinaro are well thought of. Mother Teresa is well thought of; but she never could block effectively against the blitz!

What I care about is whether or not either of these folks can play on the offensive line - - nothing else.

The Redskins' O-Line was very bad last year mainly due to Jansen's injury. It should be better this year barring a lot of injuries. But let's not get carried away and begin to categorize this crew as having three or four Hall of Fame candidates in there. Jansen is the best offensive lineman and he is coming back off an injury. There are several good players there but no great ones.

And if the OL has a bad year, an immobile Patrick Ramsey will be a sitting duck back there and may not make it though a full 16 game schedule. So, that's why the OL needs as much upgrading as is humanly possible.[/QUOTE]
The same point could be made about any position. EVERY position could use an upgrade if it is possible. Even with a future Hall of Fame type player (not saying any of these guys are), you still need quality depth in case of injury.
My opinion is that with Rabach and the return of Jansen, the line will be much improved.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=aprius]What about Nowland, Warner, Gonzalez and Alston?

Will they be contributors, Practice squad??[/QUOTE]


Well, we won't find out until after training camp.

Aprius, I wouldn't worry too much about our O-line. We have some solid players there, and lets not forget that Buges is coaching them up.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]But let's not get carried away and begin to categorize this crew as having three or four Hall of Fame candidates in there.[/QUOTE]
Whatever do you mean?!?! The whole team is bound for the HALL OF FAME!!! :joke:




There now atleast I said that the whole team is going to the hall so now at least sportscurmudgeon can keep referenceing the Hall of Fame anytime we think that someone will do good or if we think that a position will be ok!!!

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Gibbs is unimpressed with Wilson and Molinaro??

News to me.

I don't know where people come up with some stuff, seriously.[/QUOTE]

lol, this is the guy matty who thinks TO should get "bronzed", i expected something like this and something in the near future

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]But let's not get carried away and begin to categorize this crew as having three or four Hall of Fame candidates in there..[/QUOTE]

See now you're just doing this to tick me off right? You just take so much joy in using this reference and basically ridiculing Redskins fans for believing that the team has promising NFL players...you don't have to be a Hall of Fame candidate to be good. You talk about keeping it real but sometimes the reality is that things aren't all that bad, that the team is not so far away from the grand prize as you may believe. Well if you want to carry on this way then I'll just say that with James Thrash, McCants, Jacobs, Moss and Patten we have probably the greatest WR corps ever. Jacobs will probably smash every record Jerry Rice holds. When they talk about greatest players of all time the names Jim Brown and Manuel White will be used in the same sentence. And so on.

But really, it's like you don't even try anymore. A real shame because there was a time you had some worthy stuff to say, however slit-wrist inducing your posts tend to be. But now it's just getting tiring. C'mon Curmudgeon! You're better than this

aprius, I think we're all still wondering where you heard that Gibbs was unimpressed with Molinaro and Wilson.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

As people have been saying, 4 out of the 5 starters look pretty good. Dock is a question mark, but he has his moments. Who couldn't use more depth on the O-line in this league? We've got--it seems to me from the lofty vantage point of my computer--a decent mix of vets and young players at backup. We have no more money to really upgrade, so it will have to do.

The main variable is coaching. Our D-line was supposed to have trouble against the run last year, if I recall. It excelled, with a bunch of no-names and an underachiever from the gints. KNow what the key was? Coaching. Buges and Gibbs have to get this bunch playing up to their potential, in a scehme that exploits Portis and gives the statue-like Ramsey enough time to work the down-field play-action. O-line isn't a weakness if the coaches do their job.

Still waiting to hear the source of the "Gibbs is down on Molinaro and Wilson" claim.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

I can't wait to see Sean Taylors bust in Canton. :biggthump

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]I can't wait to see Sean Taylors bust in Canton. :biggthump[/QUOTE]
HAHAHA!!! That makes 2 of us!! hahaha!! :laughing2

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Everyone knows that Skins don't get in to HOF no matter what they do (see Art Monk). ;)

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]lol, this is the guy matty who thinks TO should get "bronzed", i expected something like this and something in the near future[/QUOTE]

GEEZ! I guess dry humor is too highbrow for you.
I was answering all those idiots that think TO is not a Gibbs type.
Gibbs likes the best and TO is that.
He will go into the HOF.
Dont you want that type on your team?
I watched TO over here....He had a habit of dropping balls at key times until last year and complaining about everything.
Getting bronzed would shut him up for good.
I think fans get a little overzealous sometimes and cant see the forest for the trees.....Like saying Boldin and Walker are people we dont want and Koren Robinson is one we do...I think Robinson is an overrated no-talent hack.
I would send a bouquet of flowers to Seattle for him though....or maybe Gardener and a bouquet of flowers to Snyder because we wont get anything for him anyway.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

still looking to see when it was that Gibbs said he was not impressed with Molinaro and Wilson

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=aprius]GEEZ! I guess dry humor is too highbrow for you.
I was answering all those idiots that think TO is not a Gibbs type.
Gibbs likes the best and TO is that.
He will go into the HOF.
Dont you want that type on your team?
I watched TO over here....He had a habit of dropping balls at key times until last year and complaining about everything.
Getting bronzed would shut him up for good.
I think fans get a little overzealous sometimes and cant see the forest for the trees.....Like saying Boldin and Walker are people we dont want and Koren Robinson is one we do...I think Robinson is an overrated no-talent hack.
I would send a bouquet of flowers to Seattle for him though....or maybe Gardener and a bouquet of flowers to Snyder because we wont get anything for him anyway.[/QUOTE]


Whoever said they wanted Koren Robinson instead of Walker or Boldin?

What makes you think that TO is a Gibbs type player?

No need to be calling people idiots either.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

I was assuming it was the dry humor that he mentioned. If not, I also have a problem.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Everyone knows that Skins don't get in to HOF no matter what they do (see Art Monk). ;)[/QUOTE]

yeah i suppose someone made a replica of joe gibbs and stuck him in there. don't forget sammy baugh, sonny jurgenson, john riggins, and all the others.

Re: We need O-Line help
 

A HEALTHY Jansen, and Rabach at center.....that alone will improve our line.

Considering his age, I was impressed with Ray Brown, I don't expect him to start but an able backup.......

Re: We need O-Line help
 

Also Ray Brown was a guard playing tackle last season

Re: We need O-Line help
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Whoever said they wanted Koren Robinson instead of Walker or Boldin?

What makes you think that TO is a Gibbs type player?

No need to be calling people idiots either.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs likes the best at every position and he is possibly the best at his position right now.

Check out Koren Robinson threads before the draft when there were rumours... Some people actually thought Gardener for KR would be a decent trade and some of those complain about TO, Walker and Boldin not being Redskin material. These are things that prompt me to use such strong names.

I do apologize for the idiots remark.

I forget the article but there was an article that said that Gibbs said was not satisfied with the progress of Molinaro and Wilson among others and that he was hoping this offseason would be good for them. Since then I have heard nothing either way about them and if Gibbs doesnt talk about someone it is not good.