Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

I am writing this not thinking which QB on our team is the best athlete (Griffin) best leader and the most potential to be a REAL QB (Cousins) but who given the current roster and coaching style is going to win the most games this year.

I think given the primarily running (with two studs in Alfred and Matt Jones) and short passing with a much beefed up D Colt McCoy would win the most games this year. He doesn't make mistakes and is fantastic in the short game, then you let the two bruisers take care of the ground game and pound the opposing D line. His big weakness is arm strength so Desean will not be happy but I can live with that.

With all that said I would like to see what Kirk has in a whole season as I think he could be a legit starting QB in this league.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Kirk Cousins is the best QB on the team

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Chico23231;1117492]Kirk Cousins is the best QB on the team[/quote]

I agree but to win this year I think it is Colt.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Colt McCoy can win you a game or two as a back up here and there, but if he starts for any extended length of time defenses will take advantage of the fact he doesn't have NFL grade arm strength and can't make all the throws. I think it is a strange phenomena that it seems when a flawed career back up moves to another team or hasn't played in eons he can have some brief success as a starter then all his weaknesses are exposed again. He is then back to being lucky to complete 50% of his passes and throw for 125 yards. If McCoy is higher than your third stringer you have a QB problem.

RG3, off course he has shocked Redskin fans in a bad way. While most people can't believe that he is the same guy that won offensive rookie of the year. There is a pretty
simple explanation, first defensive coordinators have learned to stymie the dual threat quarterback. (see Colin Kaepernick) Unfortunately Robert's athleticism has also diminished
due to injury, that quick explosive first step that he used to avoid defenders is gone. There really is no such thing as a sophomore slump on an NFL QB who starts as a rookie.
It is defensive coordinators finally having enough film to expose all the weaknesses.
So basically Robert was hit with a double whammy and it appears he cannot learn new skills to replace the ones that were taken away.

I vote for Kirk, let us see what he can do as an extended starter. He has looked much more like a solid NFL QB than the other two when you compare everyone's A game. Of course when Kirk throws a pick and melts down he doesn't even look worthy of starting a D3 college game let alone in the NFL. Of the 3 he appears to me as the only one having upside. Maybe another year has helped him with the mental part of the game.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Doesn't matter. Here's how it will look, in my mind:

Expected Scenario:
- Defense improves some, offense gets back to the run game, we improve some

With Griffin, 6-10 or 7-9
With Cousins, 6-10 or 7-9
With McCoy, 6-10 or 7-9

Improvement scenario
- Defense improves a lot thanks to McLoughan, we find a surprise starter or two amongst the low draft picks and low budget free agent acquisitions, we become one of the best running teams in the league behind Moses and Scherff, and everyone stays healthy

With Griffin, 8-8 or 9-7
With Cousins, 8-8 or 9-7
With McCoy, 8-8 or 9-7

None of the QBs are that good, none differentiate themselves from one another. They've got different problems, but they all add up to mediocre. Griffin can't get rid of the ball fast enough. I've still seen nothing to tell me Cousins won't turn it over. And McCoy is just alright, not enough arm talent to excel.

If we're going to get better, it won't be because one of the QBs stand out. It will be because McLoughan's surrounding cast helps us make strides.

PS our head coach sucks so best to expect 6-10 and let anything beyond that be a pleasant surprise.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

PPS, reality is we're going to have at least two of these guys getting playing time this year.

Griffin WILL get hurt at some point. Dude has no feel for how to avoid getting smashed.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Schneed10;1117497]Doesn't matter. Here's how it will look, in my mind:

Expected Scenario:
- Defense improves some, offense gets back to the run game, we improve some

With Griffin, 6-10 or 7-9
With Cousins, 6-10 or 7-9
With McCoy, 6-10 or 7-9


[/quote]

I think the 6-10 Redskins will be more enjoyable to watch with Kirk, than the 6-10 Redskins with the other two. At their current level I feel the Redskins have a chance against anybody if Kirk throws his A-game. There are too many teams that will make it impossible on the 2015 version of RG3 and Colt.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Schneed10;1117497][B]If we're going to get better, it won't be because one of the QBs stand out. It will be because McLoughan's surrounding cast helps us make strides.[/B]

PS our head coach sucks so best to expect 6-10 and let anything beyond that be a pleasant surprise.[/quote]

Bingo. And I think that's McCloughan's plan. Improve other aspects of the team first, and then address the QB. This is why I don't lose much sleep over any of the current QBs.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

I think Cousins could truly be a starter if he stopped panicking and forcing passes.

I can look at Cousins and see he wants to win but that desire turns into disaster because he forces too many passes that just aren't there. If he let's the game come to him and learns to accept that if a guy is covered just take the incomplete and punt, he'd be amazeballs.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

I don't think we're winning more than 8 games with any of them. They all have glaring weaknesses. I think it's going to be a repeat of last year, all 3 will see their share of time.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=hutch17;1117491]Best QB on our roster for the current team and system[/quote]To me these are 2 distinctly different questions.

The best QB for the [I][B][U]team[/U][/B][/I] independent of the HC and system is Griffin. I think with a HC that believed in him and a system suited to him this offense could be very good. I think we should run a scheme similar to Philly or Seattle or Miami or NY Jets. In short we should be a run 1st spread zone read based offense.

The best QB for the current [B][I][U]system[/U][/I][/B] is Colt McCoy. I want to say Kirk because Kirk as more aggressive passer but his turnover ratio is crippling.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Some pertinent stats:

Time to throw 2.5 seconds or less:
% of throws under 2.5 seconds/Attempts......Comp%.......Sacks........QB
rating
Rob.............................49%/122 atts.................80......................7.........................100
Colt.............................51%/74 atts...................74......................2...........................89
Kirk.............................60%/126 atts.................70......................2..........................102

Kirk threw more then half his passes in 2.5 or less had the lowest comp% and just edges out Griff in QB rating.
Griff threw about half his passes in less then 2.5 and had the highest comp% second highest rating but took the most sacks.
Colt again threw about half his passes in less then 2.5 had the middle comp% but lowest QB rating.

[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]2.6 seconds or more:[/COLOR][/B]
% of throws over 2.6/Attempts Comp% Sacks QB rating
Rob.................51%/92 atts............................53......................26.............................66
Colt.................49%/54 atts............................67......................15...........................106
Kirk.................40%/78 atts...........................49........................6..............................62


[B][U]3rd + 6[/U][/B]

Kirk 13/26--50% comp--4.4 YPA---1 INT--0 rushing--4 sacks--2 fumbles lost--------------46.2 QB rating
Rob 18/34--53% comp--7.5 YPA---3 INT--6 rushes--6.2 YPA---9 sacks--2 fumbles lost--40.6 QB rating
[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]Colt 16/21--76.2% comp--7.7 YPA---0 INT--2 rushes--7.0---6 sacks--2 fumbles lost--97.5 QB rating[/COLOR][/B]



[B][U]3rd - 6[/U][/B]

Kirk 16/26--62% comp--6.1 YPA--2 INT--0 TD---3 rushes-2.0 YPA--0 sacks---46.6 QB rating
Rob 13/19--68% comp--6.6 YPA--0 INT--1 TD-5 rushes-3.0 YPA--0 sacks---104.3 QB rating
Colt 7/11--63.6% comp--4.6 YPA--0 INT--0 TD-1 rush--1 sack--0 fumbles--74.4

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=30gut;1117520]To me these are 2 distinctly different questions.

[B]The best QB for the [I][B][U]team[/U][/B][/I] independent of the HC and system is Griffin.[/B] I think with a HC that believed in him and a system suited to him this offense could be very good. I think we should run a scheme similar to Philly or Seattle or Miami or NY Jets. In short we should be a run 1st spread zone read based offense.

The best QB for the current [B][I][U]system[/U][/I][/B] is Colt McCoy. I want to say Kirk because Kirk as more aggressive passer but his turnover ratio is crippling.[/quote]

The 2012 version of Griffin isn't coming back. Defensive coordinators have slowed down the dual threat quarterback and multiple injuries have taken away a lot of Robert's athleticism. 49er fans think Colin Kaepernick can go back to 2012 and that isn't happening either, and Kap hasn't lost a step.
Both ruled the world in 2012, till defenses figured them out. Now they both are in the bottom part of the QB class.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=30gut;1117520]To me these are 2 distinctly different questions.

The best QB for the [I][B][U]team[/U][/B][/I] independent of the HC and system is Griffin. I think with a HC that believed in him and a system suited to him this offense could be very good. I think we should run a scheme similar to Philly or Seattle or Miami or NY Jets. In short we should be a run 1st spread zone read based offense.

The best QB for the current [B][I][U]system[/U][/I][/B] is Colt McCoy. I want to say Kirk because Kirk as more aggressive passer but his turnover ratio is crippling.[/quote]

I posed the questions exactly as you read it meaning to separate, best overall and best for our system/coaches,

I think Kirk is the best we have but Colt is best for the system for the same reasons you see.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117517]I don't think we're winning more than 8 games with any of them. They all have glaring weaknesses. I think it's going to be a repeat of last year, all 3 will see their share of time.[/quote]
Bingo and Colt is crap he was even cut earlier in the year.

Scott M looked at the QB's saw what was available and his options and said to him self we just run with the crap we have there for now. I am going to focus on other areas to make us better then worry about the QB position. No reason to buy a Ferrari if you don't have the gas or people to drive it.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1117492]Kirk Cousins is the best QB on the team[/QUOTE]



This

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=hutch17;1117525]I posed the questions exactly as you read it meaning to separate, best overall and best for our system/coaches,

I think Kirk is the best we have but Colt is best for the system for the same reasons you see.[/quote]Oh, okay no worries wasn't sure if Jay was included as part of the team.

I think Colt is underrated by this fanbase.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

If you have to debate which of your 3 QBs is your best, you don't have a QB.

Say it with me now... it... doesn't... matter.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1117523]The 2012 version of Griffin isn't coming back. Defensive coordinators have slowed down the dual threat quarterback and multiple injuries have taken away a lot of Robert's athleticism.[/quote]Virtually everything in your post is off.

I made no reference to the 2012 offense, none.
I have no idea what you mean by dual threat QB. But over the past 2 seasons defenses have slowed down the spread zone-read offense to the point that it has won 1 SB and been to the last 2. Over the pass 3 seasons Seattle offense has been slowed down to the point of being top 10.
AND more teams are using zone-read now more then ever.
Sure Robert has been banged up but Robert now is still more then capable of running zone-read as well if not better then Foles, Sanchez, Tannehill etc.
And you can see on film Robert running read option full speed in 2013 less then 8 months after knee reconstruction.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Kirk! And I an't got to give you no stinkin' reasons. If you were as smart as I am, you'd already know why.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Cousins. He was on pace for nearly 5,000 yards and 32 TDs and ,yes, 28 INTs. I'd like to see him get 16 games to find out if he can solve the turnover issue. 9 games isn't enough to make a judgement on anyone. RG3 has had over 30 starts. We know what we're getting with him and it's debaculous.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Schneed10;1117497]Doesn't matter. Here's how it will look, in my mind:

Expected Scenario:
- Defense improves some, offense gets back to the run game, we improve some

With Griffin, 6-10 or 7-9
With Cousins, 6-10 or 7-9
With McCoy, 6-10 or 7-9

Improvement scenario
- Defense improves a lot thanks to McLoughan, we find a surprise starter or two amongst the low draft picks and low budget free agent acquisitions, we become one of the best running teams in the league behind Moses and Scherff, and everyone stays healthy

With Griffin, 8-8 or 9-7
With Cousins, 8-8 or 9-7
With McCoy, 8-8 or 9-7

None of the QBs are that good, none differentiate themselves from one another. They've got different problems, but they all add up to mediocre. Griffin can't get rid of the ball fast enough. I've still seen nothing to tell me Cousins won't turn it over. And McCoy is just alright, not enough arm talent to excel.

If we're going to get better, it won't be because one of the QBs stand out. It will be because McLoughan's surrounding cast helps us make strides.

PS our head coach sucks so best to expect 6-10 and let anything beyond that be a pleasant surprise.[/quote]

How would you see anything from KC that would indicate he can limit the turnovers when he's not been allowed to play. He hasn't turned it over this pre-season, and that's the only time he's played. Can't show you anything from the bench.

What tantalizes a lot of KC supporters, myself included, is all the other stats he piled up. Interceptions and his response to them is a concern, but he wouldn't be the first QB to improve in both areas with more experience. As much of a turnover machine some people would have you think he is, he still had more TDs last year than interceptions. If he solves that issue, his stats put him in the top 5-10 in the league.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1117502]I think the 6-10 Redskins will be more enjoyable to watch with Kirk, than the 6-10 Redskins with the other two. At their current level I feel the Redskins have a chance against anybody if Kirk throws his A-game. There are too many teams that will make it impossible on the 2015 version of RG3 and Colt.[/quote]

And at least the Wide Receivers get to participate in the game and the O-line isn't made to look terrible with Kirk at the helm. RG3 makes everyone around him worse.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=30gut;1117520]To me these are 2 distinctly different questions.

The best QB for the [I][B][U]team[/U][/B][/I] independent of the HC and system is Griffin. I think with a HC that believed in him and a system suited to him this offense could be very good. I think we should run a scheme similar to Philly or Seattle or Miami or NY Jets. In short we should be a run 1st spread zone read based offense.

The best QB for the current [B][I][U]system[/U][/I][/B] is Colt McCoy. I want to say Kirk because Kirk as more aggressive passer but his turnover ratio is crippling.[/quote]

RG3 doesn't want to run an Offense that suits him. Even the few times they ran Read Option last year, he always handed the ball off even where there appeared to be nothing but open space in front of him. His heart just doesn't seem to be into the 2012 version of himself.

And everyone keeps clamoring for bootlegs, which they will run plenty of, but he's not even great at that and it's not ideal to run bootlegs against some Defensive looks. He completed a pass on the sideline on a bootleg in the first pre-season game that was thrown to 2 Receivers in the same area, and he took a massive hit after letting go of the pass. It was a positive play, but he still took a shot, which is far too common.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117517]I don't think we're winning more than 8 games with any of them. They all have glaring weaknesses. I think it's going to be a repeat of last year, all 3 will see their share of time.[/quote]

That is a depressing thought. I hope you are wrong.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

Colt McCoy sucks period end of story. He is a career third stringer. He was even CUT this off season and NO other team even looked at him. People get over McCoy, outside of the cowboy win he has not done jack shit.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117517]I don't think we're winning more than 8 games with any of them. They all have glaring weaknesses. I think it's going to be a repeat of last year, all 3 will see their share of time.[/quote]

Most honest post on this thread thus far. RG III is pretty much done folks. I stated in one of my first posts in this forum that MSU QBs usually make great backups, but can't cut the mustard at a starting position. Smoker's stint with the Lions and now Kirk with the Skins pretty much confirms that. Remember when we thought Cousins had some trade potential, then he frittered it away ASAP? The guy is a perennial backup, as is McCoy. Matty is right. A repeat of last season is probable. 6-10 would be very nice considering our schedule. You also have to throw in the fact that our HC isn't really HC material, and our owner is a bona fide moron. Bruce Allen to me is a yes man, and Scotty M seems to be the only one of the bunch that has a real plan and knows what the hell to do.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=mredskins;1117571]Colt McCoy sucks period end of story. He is a career third stringer. He was even CUT this off season and NO other team even looked at him. People get over McCoy, outside of the cowboy win he has not done jack shit.[/quote]

Even Shane Matthews and Danny W looked good during preseason when the Ole Ball Coach was HC. Colt didn't exactly light up the scoreboard against the Cowboys, just didn't screw up or turn the ball over. You know you are hurting at QB when even Tony Banks or Gus Frerotte might be considered an improvement to your QB stable.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=mredskins;1117571]Colt McCoy sucks period end of story. He is a career third stringer. He was even CUT this off season and NO other team even looked at him. People get over McCoy, outside of the cowboy win he has not done jack shit.[/quote]

Not to be that guy, but he wasn't cut, his contract expired and the team just waited a while before re-signing.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Schneed10;1117532]If you have to debate which of your 3 QBs is your best, you don't have a QB.

Say it with me now... it... doesn't... matter.[/quote]

Pretty much spot on. None of the above is going to get us to even a whiff of a wild card, much less an above .500 season.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

I love the Redskins and until RGIII is not identified as our starting QB, I will root for him. I actually like the guy and think he has real ability, although I would agree with the many criticisms about his play since 2012. I would love to see him come roaring back and prove everyone wrong.

Having said all that, if he starts in the Ravens game (as it appears he will) and gets the whole first half to play and shows what we have seen so far (turnovers, failure to slide in the pocket and see open receivers, etc.), I don't know how Gruden can say he's the starter going into the regular season. I realize that the defenses for Cleveland, Detroit, and B-more are stout, but you have to be able to show something in the preseason (and not just in practice) to justify the starting role -- especially if the backups appear to be having greater success (yes, against backups) and command of the offense. Gruden is in a very difficult position here, made easier only if (a) RGIII lights it up this week with a solid performance, or (b) hate to say it, RGIII gets hurt this week. Anything other than these two scenarios will make his next few weeks before the regular season hell (and ours as well).

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=SirLK26;1117574]Not to be that guy, but he wasn't cut, his contract expired and the team just waited a while before re-signing.[/quote]

Same thing and no other team came knocking. Colt is exactly where he should be 3rd string.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Schneed10;1117532]If you have to debate which of your 3 QBs is your best, you don't have a QB.

Say it with me now... it... doesn't... matter.[/quote]

Maybe you are little young to remember the 49ers from 1991-1992 Joe Montana
was on I.R. but many thought he was healthy enough to play more than just the last game of the 1992 season. Steve Young's success starting seemed to delay Montana's return from elbow surgery. Steve Bono had a 5-1 record as a starter when Young was injured. Two guys are in the HOF and Steve Bono had a career 28-14 record as a starter. Do note that was before the salary cap era.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1117532]If you have to debate which of your 3 QBs is your best, you don't have a QB.

Say it with me now... it... doesn't... matter.[/QUOTE]
Amen.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

what if RG3 comes out and plays the same way he has so far this preseason and all of last season this weekend against B-more?

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

For this current team and what it seems like Gruden wants to do on offense, Kirk Cousins is the best fit at QB.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Chico23231;1117610]what if RG3 comes out and plays the same way he has so far this preseason and all of last season this weekend against B-more?[/quote]

There are two possibilities:

1. If he is physically able to play in Week 1, he will start regardless of the quality of his performance against B-More. It is a mandate from Snyder.

2. If he gets broken in half by the Ravens defense and is physically unable to play in Week 1, then Kirk will start.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

I believe that Kirk is being underrated by many people. He looks improved to me and I think that he'll perform well if given the chance.

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1117589]Maybe you are little young to remember the 49ers from 1991-1992 Joe Montana
was on I.R. but many thought he was healthy enough to play more than just the last game of the 1992 season. Steve Young's success starting seemed to delay Montana's return from elbow surgery. Steve Bono had a 5-1 record as a starter when Young was injured. Two guys are in the HOF and Steve Bono had a career 28-14 record as a starter. Do note that was before the salary cap era.[/quote]

Oh how I loathed that team back then (still do for the most part).
They had a charmed roster.....feckers.....

Re: Best QB on our roster for the current team and system
 

[quote=irish;1117611]For this current team and what it seems like Gruden wants to do on offense, Kirk Cousins is the best fit at QB.[/quote]

Irish, this is Danny Boy decision at QB, Gruden has no say in the matter.


Because that is how a circus franchise which is a laughing stock within football circles is run. With the Owner who makes personel decisions.