(All about that) D thread
 

I thought it'd be interesting to have a thread to discuss the defense and their issues, or if you're a big fan of Manusky this would be a good place to mount your defense of his defense.

At the beginning I was skeptical of Manusky as coordinator because he's got an unimpressive track record at a host of other places. I also wanted Wade Phillips, but there's neither here nor there.

11 games into the year our defense has shown marked improvement over Joe Barry's d, which I appreciate but really doesn't say much because the Redskins have been terrible on d for a couple years now. They brought in guys like Swearinger and Zack Brown who have been big improvements over previous years, and Montae Nicholson had his moments before his on-again/off-again injury issues. Guys like Jonathan Allen, Matt Ioannidis came on board and despite being young showed they can compete and make plays.

Now here we are, in week 11, and our d just totally collapsed and cost us the game with what seemed like an insurmountable lead.

I started this thread with the intent of making the discussion about points given up in the last 2 minutes of the half. So I'll start with that.

Week 1 vs Philly, first half. Gave up a 10 play, 43yd drive that took up 1:17 and ended in a 50 yard field goal with no time on the clock. Philly takes a 16-14 lead.
Second half: Their d returned a Cousins fumble for a td with under 2 min left, but that's on the O. They do score the 2 point conversation to make the game 30-17 and out of reach.

Week 2 vs. Rams: Nada.
Week 3 vs. Raiders: Nada.

Week 4 vs. Chiefs: First half. Technically this counts but the drive started with 5 min on the clock. Chiefs go 73 yards in 7 plays/3:07, finish with a 17yd td pass to Kelce. Redskins still lead 10-7.
Second half: Cousins leads game tying drive, ties game 20-20 with 47 seconds to go. Chiefs drive 50 yards in 6 plays/43 seconds, kick game winning 43yd field goal with 4 seconds left. The kickoff return/lateral drill ends in a 13 yard fumble return for a td with no time left on the clock. Still counts against us but ultimately irrelevant to final score. Last drive totally on the d though.

Week 6 vs. 49ers: First half. After Redskins kick a field goal to go up 17-0 with 1:51 left on the clock, 49ers go on a 11 play, 75 yard drive that finishes with a 1 yard td as time expires. Redskins lead 17-7 at the half.
Second half: After Redskins miss extra point on a KC 7 yard td run with 3:28 left, leading 26-17, the 49ers go 75 yards in 6 plays/1:30, finishing with a 45 yard td pass to Aldrick Robinson by CJ Beathard. Redskins lead 26-24 with 1:58 left on the clock.

Week 7 vs. Eagles: First half. Not relevant to 2 min discussion but Eagles go 80 yards in 3 minutes, finish with 64 yard td pass to Mack Hollins from Wentz with 3:19 left on the clock. After offense fails to finish out half, Eagles get ball back with 1:52 left, and go 80 yards in 6 plays/1:30, finish with 4yd td pass to Ertz from Wentz, take 17-10 lead with 22 seconds left. No 2nd half drive given up but that's because d was shredded that day, giving up 4 td drives in 2nd through 4th quarters that put game out of reach.

Week 8 vs. Cowboys: Second half: Byron Jones has a 21yd pick six with 21 seconds left and the Redskins trying to drive for a game tying td. Goes from 26-19 Cowboys to 33-19 Cowboys. Offense' fault obviously on that one.

Week 9 vs. Seahawks: Second half: Seahawks go 71 yards in 5 plays/48 seconds, finish with a 30yd td pass from Wilson to Baldwin, take 14-10 lead with 1:34 left on the clock. Redskins do the un-Redskins thing and go on clutch 4 play, 70 yard drive to finish with a td to win the game.

Week 10 vs. Vikings: First half: Vikings go 71 yards in 6 plays/2:48, finish with a 7 yard td pass from Keenum to Thielen, and 1:49 left on the clock. Redskins turn the ball over on ensuing drive, Vikings go on 3 play/23 yd drive, finish with a 1 yd td pass and 22 seconds left. Vikings go from 14-17 to 28-17 in 2 min span. Start 3rd q with a 2:38 drive finish with a td, puts game at 35-17 and Redskins play catch up entire second half.

Week 11 vs. Saints: We should remember this drill clearly. First half: Saints go 69 yards in 10 plays, finish with 29 yard field goal, Redskins have 17-13 lead at half.
Second half: After Redskins score a td to go up 31-16 with 5:58 left, Saints go on 75 yard/8 play drive in 3:05, finish with td. Redskins can't get game winning first down on ensuing drive, give ball back to Saints with 2 min left. Saints go 87 yards in 4 plays/48 seconds, finish with inspired 2 point conversion to tie game 31-31. After easy stop in OT helped by a dropped pass from Vernon Davis, Saints go 51 yards in 3 plays and kick super-easy game winning 28 yard field goal. It's the most egregious end of half/OT defense seen by the Redskins in years, and most likely puts them out of playoff contention in stacked NFC (not that we were going to compete anyways at 5-5, when the 6th seed has 7-3 record.

So discuss. I'll start. Fire Manusky. Even when we were healthy, some teams still made it look easy to score on us. It's improvement but not "contending" improvement. It's also hard to contend when teams show an easy ability to score on us at the end of the half.

Now this thread might become quiet if we put on our big boy pants and beat the bad teams on our easier second half schedule. But I don't like what I see from Manusky at the end of the half. Being good doesn't matter if you can't close out teams at the end of the half or the game.

Also Jay Gruden's choice of d-coordinators lacks confidence from me. He's on the hot seat now because of it, amongst other things.

Re: The D thread
 

I'd let go of the whole coaching staff save maybe Callahan. And bring in new head coach so he can hire his staff. I was just looking up possible HC candidates...

Matt Burke - Dolphins DC
Mike Vrabel - Texans DC
Steve Wilks - Panthers DC
Kris Richard - Seahawks DC

My 4 top choices in no specific order.

Re: The D thread
 

It’s hard to hate Manusky after what we had last year.

The biggest issue I have is with the personnel.
Compton
Galette
Hall
These guys needed to be replaced in the offseason.
I’m going speculate and say these are Grudens guys.
They don’t deserve the playing time they got.

Ryan is a 2nd round pick but he’s not contributing.

We have too many character guys on D who can’t run.
We need more team speed!

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=jamf;1180567]It’s hard to hate Manusky after what we had last year.

The biggest issue I have is with the personnel.
Compton
Galette
Hall
These guys needed to be replaced in the offseason.
I’m going speculate and say these are Grudens guys.
They don’t deserve the playing time they got.

Ryan is a 2nd round pick but he’s not contributing.

We have too many character guys on D who can’t run.
We need more team speed![/quote]

This draft should be a RB, a possible OL, and then 5 picks on defense. Not in any particular order.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1180572]This draft should be a RB, a possible OL, and then 5 picks on defense. Not in any particular order.[/quote]

i wish it was 7 guys on defense and 3 to 4 free agents on defense. sometimes i wish we hired mike zimmer. i can't stand having a shitty defense.

Re: The D thread
 

To be fair, this D line is undermanned with Allen out and Ioannidis playing with a club. We need to draft or sign a real NT. It is ridiculous that we've run a 3-4 base since 2009, and haven't had a Haloti Ngata-type nose tackle.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1180583]To be fair, this D line is undermanned with Allen out and Ioannidis playing with a club. We need to draft or sign a real NT. It is ridiculous that we've run a 3-4 base since 2009, and haven't had a Haloti Ngata-type nose tackle.[/quote]

They play plenty of 4-3 defense. ....this should be their base defense, neither Kerrigan or Smith are good OLBs.... both are inconsistent

The personnel and draft decisions have been terrible.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1180583]To be fair, this D line is undermanned with Allen out and Ioannidis playing with a club. We need to draft or sign a real NT. It is ridiculous that we've run a 3-4 base since 2009, and haven't had a Haloti Ngata-type nose tackle.[/quote]

I disagree. They signed two free agents on the d-line, plus resigned Hood. Those guys are vets, they just aren't any good so that's on the front office.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1180564]I'd let go of the whole coaching staff save maybe Callahan. And bring in new head coach so he can hire his staff. I was just looking up possible HC candidates...

Matt Burke - Dolphins DC
Mike Vrabel - Texans DC
Steve Wilks - Panthers DC
Kris Richard - Seahawks DC

My 4 top choices in no specific order.[/quote]

IMO this team is very close to being very good. They have been decimated by injuries but still play good teams very tough. One of the biggest problems this organization has is lack of consistency. They are constantly starting over in search of the next great coach. I think the dumbest thing this organization could do is start over again. Let the staff stay, let the team get healthy and keep building. Its what good organizations do.

If I had to fire anyone its the training staff. The just don't seem capable of keeping this team healthy and its been that way for a few years now.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1180600]I disagree. They signed two free agents on the d-line, plus resigned Hood. Those guys are vets, they just aren't any good so that's on the front office.[/quote]

No. A NT/DT should be top priority in the offseason...I wanted to see how it shook out this year and its fucking clear as day that this is a top need.

The two free agent bust....who I said were fucking terrible signings at the time...have been bad. They've been beat out Matt Ioannidis and Allen, which is a silver lining. Neither McClain or McGee have been able to hold at point of attack at NT like many were thinking...ALSO Ziggy HOOD is there which is a terrible play.

We need an inside presence at the NT/DT spot...I don't give a flying fuck if its only 2 down players. GUESS WHAT! When we were at full strength along the DLine, we were rotating guys in and out where outside of Allen, no one was playing all 3 downs. So don't give me that horse shit.

DT/NT is a priority and would make a big difference with this Defense.

The D thread
 

Even Joe Barry got 2 seasons. Hard to fairly evaluate Manusky with all the injuries and a brutal schedule. Let’s at least wait until the end of the year to put a grade on him. A few weeks ago he was the toast of the town after Seattle.

Re: The D thread
 

Manusky is a very good aggressive DC, injuries have hampered the D this year, yet it is competitive. Yes, they fucked up a few times like missed tackles on the critical 2 point conversion and not having enough players-on that side to stop the play.

I would like to see Hood, Hall replaced in the offseason, keep Murphy and put him in the DL, draft another S, ILB, NT and pass rusher to replace Galette. A Murphy, Ionnadis, Allen, Lanier line sure would be nice. Need to keep Brown no matter what and draft a replacement for Foster unless we can keep him (will be tough). Breeland is gone next year.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=MTK;1180603]Even Joe Barry got 2 seasons. Hard to fairly evaluate Manusky with all the injuries and a brutal schedule. Let’s at least wait until the end of the year to put a grade on him. A few weeks ago he was the toast of the town after Seattle.[/quote]

I agree 100%. It only took 2 weeks for Manusky to go from the penthouse to the outhouse. Its impossible to fairly evaluate anyone on this injury filled season.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1180602]No. A NT/DT should be top priority in the offseason...I wanted to see how it shook out this year and its fucking clear as day that this is a top need.

The two free agent bust....who I said were fucking terrible signings at the time...have been bad. They've been beat out Matt Ioannidis and Allen, which is a silver lining. Neither McClain or McGee have been able to hold at point of attack at NT like many were thinking...ALSO Ziggy HOOD is there which is a terrible play.

We need an inside presence at the NT/DT spot...I don't give a flying fuck if its only 2 down players. GUESS WHAT! When we were at full strength along the DLine, we were rotating guys in and out where outside of Allen, no one was playing all 3 downs. So don't give me that horse shit.

DT/NT is a priority and would make a big difference with this Defense.[/quote]

I'm done w/ trying to find a NT, and I'm done w/ the 3-4. It's a total cluster fuck. Here's another reason why I hate it. Kerrigan had to cover Fleener out in space in a crucial part of the game. Now any dumb ass would and should know that he can't do that, but you ask him to do it? I'm sorry but that's piss poor, shit ass coaching right there. I can't even blame Kerrigan for that play cause they're asking him to do something he can't do. So just get rid of it, I've had enough. You should never ask your best pass rusher to cover a TE out in space, EVER!

Re: The D thread
 

I think Manusky has been decent as a coordinator, but he needs to find out why the last 2-3 minutes in the halves have been terrible. Needs to fix it.


But Ill continue to say this...not hiring Wade Phillips was a huge mistake and Its an embarrassing when Jim Schwartz refuses to take a meeting with your team because the Front office of Dan and Bruce is an absolute fucking joke. So remember, Dan and Bruce operation cost us an opportunity there.

People keep talking about Wentz, but Schwartz as the d-coordinator is the real reason why Philly is excelling this year. But it takes a lil bit of football acumen to understand that fact.

Re: The D thread
 

U cant fire the guy yet, he hasn't been great but we also have a ton of holes still.

Pass rusher is needed .
DT
LB
S

all needs

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1180616]I think Manusky has been decent as a coordinator, but he needs to find out why the last 2-3 minutes in the halves have been terrible. Needs to fix it.


But Ill continue to say this...not hiring Wade Phillips was a huge mistake and Its an embarrassing when Jim Schwartz refuses to take a meeting with your team because the Front office of Dan and Bruce is an absolute fucking joke. So remember, Dan and Bruce operation cost us an opportunity there.

People keep talking about Wentz, but Schwartz as the d-coordinator is the real reason why Philly is excelling this year. But it takes a lil bit of football acumen to understand that fact.[/quote]

How did Wade Phillips D do against Minnesota? Do they have as many injuries? Our D has fucked up, no doubt. Norman hasn't played well 2 weeks in a row, Hall filling in sucks. We miss Foster badly.

Re: The D thread
 

Jim Schwartz has been outstanding this year w/ a young secondary. Eagles d has been solid all year long.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1180618]How did Wade Phillips D do against Minnesota? Do they have as many injuries? Our D has fucked up, no doubt. Norman hasn't played well 2 weeks in a row, Hall filling in sucks. We miss Foster badly.[/quote]

Wade has done a fine job with both Denver and now the Rams.

We got smoked by the Vikings defensively...Rams kept it competitive.

Minnesota defense...like I and others talked about before we played them...is real man shit, physical. They are ELITE.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1180621]Jim Schwartz has been outstanding this year w/ a young secondary. Eagles d has been solid all year long.[/quote]

Schwartz refused to talked to us when we asked because he knew our front office and the people running our Org- Dan and Bruce- were complete clowns. These two idiots have cost this team over and over.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1180616]I think Manusky has been decent as a coordinator, but he needs to find out why the last 2-3 minutes in the halves have been terrible. Needs to fix it.


But Ill continue to say this...not hiring Wade Phillips was a huge mistake and Its an embarrassing when Jim Schwartz refuses to take a meeting with your team because the Front office of Dan and Bruce is an absolute fucking joke. So remember, Dan and Bruce operation cost us an opportunity there.

People keep talking about Wentz, but Schwartz as the d-coordinator is the real reason why Philly is excelling this year. But it takes a lil bit of football acumen to understand that fact.[/quote]

I really wanted Wade, but I don't think he's been as good this year as in the past, and I'm over that non-hire. Schwartz is a great DC, but he's not the kind the Skins would nearly ever hire, so again, that's really a non-factor.

Manusky and Gruden need to spend time over pizza looking at every end of half and end of game film from our games, then go and look at those of the coaches who are famous for their time management.

Somehow these two have to get it straightened out if the Skins want to compete this year or next.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1180624][B]I really wanted Wade, but I don't think he's been as good this year as in the past, and I'm over that non-hire. Schwartz is a great DC, but he's not the kind the Skins would nearly ever hire, so again, that's really a non-factor.[/B]

Manusky and Gruden need to spend time over pizza looking at every end of half and end of game film from our games, then go and look at those of the coaches who are famous for their time management.

Somehow these two have to get it straightened out if the Skins want to compete this year or next.[/quote]

Why?

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1180622]Wade has done a fine job with both Denver and now the Rams.

We got smoked by the Vikings defensively...Rams kept it competitive.

Minnesota defense...like I and others talked about before we played them...is real man shit, physical. They are ELITE.[/quote]

Then maybe we should hire Minnesota’s DC!! JK

My point is, give Manusky a chance I think he has done a fine job. Like I said Norman hasn’t played well the last 2 weeks, due to ILB injuries our lack of depth is showing, Brown is playing hurt and is not as fast.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1180624]I really wanted Wade, but I don't think he's been as good this year as in the past, and I'm over that non-hire. Schwartz is a great DC, but he's not the kind the Skins would nearly ever hire, so again, that's really a non-factor.

Manusky and Gruden need to spend time over pizza looking at every end of half and end of game film from our games, then go and look at those of the coaches who are famous for their time management.

Somehow these two have to get it straightened out if the Skins want to compete this year or next.[/quote]

a Non-factor? FFS

For god sakes...do we understand that Wade Phillips won Denver the superbowl? Do we understand it wasn't Peyton Manning or that offense that won through the playoffs? Wade Phillips won the superbowl period. Ask the players on that team.

And Jim Schwartz has Philly as the top team in the NFC and look like superbowl contenders? Wentz without that defense would look like Dak this year.


why in the fuck doesn't this matter?

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1180625]Why?[/quote]

On Wade, I haven't watched recently, but in our game and the games around it, his defense didn't seem as stout as they would have been in the past. Looking at stats just now, the yardage seems to bear that out, but the points against don't. And with our talent maybe I would still want him, he probably would have gotten more out of ours I guess.

On Schwarz, 1- he's a dirty defensive coach. The last one of those we had was Williams, and I don't think we go that way again ever. 2nd, he's linked to Haynesworth, and given DS' history with AH, I doubt he would bring him in.

Re: The D thread
 

Philadelphia has assembled a hell of a defense, awesome LB’s, DT’s, signing Jernigan, trading for Darby and drafting Barnett were brilliant moves by their front office.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1180628]a Non-factor? FFS

For god sakes...do we understand that Wade Phillips won Denver the superbowl? Do we understand it wasn't Peyton Manning or that offense that won through the playoffs? Wade Phillips won the superbowl period. Ask the players on that team.

And Jim Schwartz has Philly as the top team in the NFC and look like superbowl contenders? Wentz without that defense would look like Dak this year.


why in the fuck doesn't this matter?[/quote]

Yeah, I have to ask the same thing. Wade or Schwartz would've been a heck of a hire.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1180630]Philadelphia has assembled a hell of a defense, awesome LB’s, DT’s, signing Jernigan, trading for Darby and drafting Barnett were brilliant moves by their front office.[/quote]

Yeah but their clear difference maker is Wentz, that guy is a baller

Re: The D thread
 

Not sure the DC would matter much when we’re down multiple key starters.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=MTK;1180648]Not sure the DC would matter much when we’re down multiple key starters.[/quote]

Nicholson looked promising early but he is too often injured as well, our CBs have been the bright spot, and DJ of course.

Breeland has been much better

Re: The D thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1180650]Nicholson looked promising early but he is too often injured as well, our CBs have been the bright spot, and DJ of course.



Breeland has been much better[/QUOTE]



Bree looked better early on. I feel like he sort of stunk it up over the last few weeks. I like Manusky. We need beef in the middle of that d line, Allen back, and a couple pieces in the secondary. I think if Manusky had those few pieces he has a good scheme.

Re: The D thread
 

I think Bree has played better as the season has gone on...I wouldn't shut the door on an extension.

Our CB for the most part have been solid on the defense...

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1180621]Jim Schwartz has been outstanding this year w/ a young secondary. Eagles d has been solid all year long.[/quote]It doesn't hurt that he has an absolute beast in Fletcher Cox at DT and excellent edge rushers. Philly can get consistent pressure without blitzing. Hopefully Allen becomes our Cox someday. I like our young corners (especially Fuller and Dunbar) as much as Philly's, we just don't have the dominant D line that they have.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1180664]It doesn't hurt that he has an absolute beast in Fletcher Cox at DT and excellent edge rushers. Philly can get consistent pressure without blitzing. Hopefully Allen becomes our Cox someday. I like our young corners (especially Fuller and Dunbar) as much as Philly's, we just don't have the dominant D line that they have.[/quote]

Rams had Aaron Donald all along while being mediocre under Jeff Fisher. Now they have Aaron Donald working with Sean McVay's offense and Wade Phillips, and lo and behold they're instantly better.

Re: The D thread
 

D.Hall was not good this week and should hang em up at the end of the season. I would let Breeland walk and move Fuller to the outside. Nicholson would still be my starter and I would make Sua a back up when/ if he came back.

We need an impact pass rusher. Someone that wouldn't disappear when the game is on the line

Re: The D thread
 

Call me crazy but I would probably let Norman walk at the end of the year. At 15 million per I need shut down and he's not that guy. Very good player and all but not an elite player, just not worth that kind of money. Breeland is up and down but we can probably sign him well below 10 million. We've got some young guys that are on their first year deals that can step in...

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1180670]Call me crazy but I would probably let Norman walk at the end of the year. At 15 million per I need shut down and he's not that guy. Very good player and all but not an elite player, just not worth that kind of money. Breeland is up and down but we can probably sign him well below 10 million. We've got some young guys that are on their first year deals that can step in...[/quote]That's not crazy, it's a business decision. As I said in an earlier post, I like our young corners, and if Bree can be retained at a good price, you could use Norman money saved to re-sign him and perhaps Swearinger. Draft a stud DT/NT to line up between Allen and Ioannidis, and we have the making of a D that can collapse the pocket rushing 4, and a still solid secondary.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1180670]Call me crazy but I would probably let Norman walk at the end of the year. At 15 million per I need shut down and he's not that guy. Very good player and all but not an elite player, just not worth that kind of money. Breeland is up and down but we can probably sign him well below 10 million. We've got some young guys that are on their first year deals that can step in...[/quote]

I thought about that too, it would give more cap room flexibility especially if Cousins signs.

Re: The D thread
 

Breeland is going to get paid by someone else.
We will need Dunbar and Moreau to replace him and find a backup for Norman.

Fuller is playing well in the slot, we shouldn't mess with this.


Compton needs to sell workout supplements at Vitamin Shoppe for living.
Foster should be a backup and need to get another ILB to compliment Brown.

Hall is done, good luck on TV next year.

Galette is a non factor and a bar fight away from getting suspended for the year.
stop wasting time with this guy.

Re: The D thread
 

[quote=jamf;1180683]Breeland is going to get paid by someone else.
We will need Dunbar and Moreau to replace him and find a backup for Norman.

Fuller is playing well in the slot, we shouldn't mess with this.


[B]Compton needs to sell workout supplements at Vitamin Shoppe for living[/B].
Foster should be a backup and need to get another ILB to compliment Brown.

Hall is done, good luck on TV next year.

Galette is a non factor and a bar fight away from getting suspended for the year.
stop wasting time with this guy.[/quote]

:biggthump

The way Foster handled going to IR..he's gone. Is Spaight the answer next to Brown? That's what we should find out going forward this year.

I think Preston Smith should come back and say bye to JG unless takes some pay cut to comeback.