Tax bill
 

Let’s move the tax bill talk here... one of the things I found most obnoxious about it is they tacked on drilling in the arctic. We’re well on our way to ruining this planet, a pretty major fucking problem for everyone left or right

Re: Tax bill
 

They'll be dead by the time it matters. So it won't matter to them.

I find it pretty sad arctic drilling, abortion, and health care had to be mashed in, those are all issues deserving of their own platform. Another reason I hate the rider system in Congress. Unfortunately nothing will be done about it (like congressional term limits) because the people making the rules would be the people directly impacted by the rules.

Re: Tax bill
 

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/H8lxvGa.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Tax bill
 

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/y9Hk4CY_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium[/IMG]

Re: Tax bill
 

There is very little evidence that increase/decrease in corporate taxes has a significant impact on wages. So a 1% corporate tax increases drops wages 1% at most. What happens to my wages when we have a 10% drop in corporate taxes and then increase my taxes? My wages won't be going up enough to offset that balance.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1182339]There is very little evidence that increase/decrease in corporate taxes has a significant impact on wages. So a 1% corporate tax increases drops wages 1% at most. What happens to my wages when we have a 10% drop in corporate taxes and then increase my taxes? My wages won't be going up enough to offset that balance.[/quote]

There is a lot of evidence that shows lower corporate taxes doesn't translate to increased investment or higher salaries. Hell, many corporations have been using loop holes to evade taxes the past 20 years. They're stuffing cash in off-shore accounts to avoid taxes. Meanwhile, the workers are getting fucked and not seeing anything to note. The only people that make out are the stock holders, who are generally rich elite assholes to begin with.

The only way to get salaries to rise is to forcefully raise them. Supply side economics has never worked. Ever. It never ever will. Demand drives economies, and middle class america drives the demand. Give them the cash, the economy will boom. Give it to rich assholes, the economy will eventually crash. All one needs is to look at history. How fucking stupid are people? Rhetorical question.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182155]They'll be dead by the time it matters. So it won't matter to them.

I find it pretty sad arctic drilling, abortion, and health care had to be mashed in, those are all issues deserving of their own platform. Another reason I hate the rider system in Congress. Unfortunately nothing will be done about it (like congressional term limits) because the people making the rules would be the people directly impacted by the rules.[/quote]

I agree with everything you said!

Re: Tax bill
 

Some of the deductions they are eliminating are flat out a war on the middle class and young people: student loan deduction, personal exemption, and state and local taxes will all hit young and middle class cohorts heavily. IMO this bill:
a. reduces college educated population in particular those at the graduate level
b. causes students who want to continue education take out more student loans to offset tax breaks
c. is counter intuitive to a conservative philosophy deducting state and local taxes allows states to have higher tax rates and therefore provide more state level services than federal services. If a state is willing to use its own money and not rely as heavily on the federal government you would think conservatives would be for it not against it.

Re: Tax bill
 

This is a good break down of the Paul Ryan's tax bill!


[url]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/winners-losers-senate-tax-bill-n827856[/url]

Re: Tax bill
 

Really, our only hope is that Chico and the rest of his supporters will flip in 5 years when they realize the middle class cuts were only temporary and the corporate cuts were permanent. According to [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/30/how-the-republican-tax-bill-benefits-the-rich-according-to-government-analysis/"]the analysis [/URL] in about 5 years or so (should be just enough time for Chico to forget Trump/Congress is responsible for this) the middle class will see their taxes go up.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182528]Really, our only hope is that Chico and the rest of his supporters will flip in 5 years when they realize the middle class cuts were only temporary and the corporate cuts were permanent. According to [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/30/how-the-republican-tax-bill-benefits-the-rich-according-to-government-analysis/"]the analysis [/URL] in about 5 years or so (should be just enough time for Chico to forget Trump/Congress is responsible for this) the middle class will see their taxes go up.[/quote]

I’m just waiting to see how the tax bill shakes out but there are certainly somethings that aren’t perfect with it. Regardless, it will never be 100% to my liking because I simply don’t blindly agree with whatever the right or left does.

Certainly if in the 5-6 years it doesn’t do a good job, then yeah everyone should be held accountable. I hope it works, just like I hoped Obamacare would work. But it didn’t work and yet nobody really wants to hold anybody accountable for that....

Speaking of Obamacare...the graphs of opioid deaths and spike prescription drug addiction as Obamacare went into effect....really interesting stuff that predictably no one wants to talk about. Correlation? Yeah certainly a story there that media has avoided.


Look, I aint mad at y’all, just trying to give you something to think about. These issues are not cut and dry or easy. Glad we have a forum to discuss

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182533]I’m just waiting to see how the tax bill shakes out but there are certainly somethings that aren’t perfect with it. Regardless, it will never be 100% to my liking because I simply don’t blindly agree with whatever the right or left does.

Certainly if in the 5-6 years it doesn’t do a good job, then yeah everyone should be held accountable. I hope it works, just like I hoped Obamacare would work. But it didn’t work and yet nobody really wants to hold anybody accountable for that....

Speaking of Obamacare...the graphs of opioid deaths and spike prescription drug addiction as Obamacare went into effect....really interesting stuff that predictably no one wants to talk about. Correlation? Yeah certainly a story there that media has avoided.

[/quote]
So what do the people do that are taking it up the ass from the tax bill for the next 5-6 years?Why should I have to cover the rich or corporations?

Obamacare did work,are there problems ,yes,but fix the problems don't dump the whole thing!

Chico, what fucking flavor of kool/aid are you drinking to even suggest that Obamacare had anything at all to do with a spike in drug addiction.You pull a trump move by making a suggestion that's not true at all and then blame the media for not covering something you made up? WTF???

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1182536]So [B]what do the people do that are taking it up the ass from the tax bill for the next 5-6 years?Why should I have to cover the rich or corporations?[/B]

Obamacare did work,are there problems ,yes,but fix the problems don't dump the whole thing!

Chico, what fucking flavor of kool/aid are you drinking to even suggest that Obamacare had anything at all to do with a spike in drug addiction.You pull a trump move by making a suggestion that's not true at all and then blame the media for not covering something you made up? WTF???[/quote]

G1 I laughed pretty hard at your opening line. Nice one.

Obamacare worked for very, very few and didn’t do what it was supposed to do. I’m not gonna get into, but keep thinking everything is fine with it.

G1, look at the spike of opioid deaths during the obama adminstration and the addiction issues we have today. It certainly didn’t start in the obama adminstration but the healthcare legislation may have intensified and expanded the issue. I’ve read a couple things about the issue, but it’s certainly been overlooked largely by the media...I just wonder why?

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182533]I’m just waiting to see how the tax bill shakes out but there are certainly somethings that aren’t perfect with it. Regardless, it will never be 100% to my liking because I simply don’t blindly agree with whatever the right or left does.

Certainly if in the 5-6 years it doesn’t do a good job, then yeah everyone should be held accountable. I hope it works, just like I hoped Obamacare would work. But it didn’t work and yet nobody really wants to hold anybody accountable for that....

Speaking of Obamacare...the graphs of opioid deaths and spike prescription drug addiction as Obamacare went into effect....really interesting stuff that predictably no one wants to talk about. Correlation? Yeah certainly a story there that media has avoided.


Look, I aint mad at y’all, just trying to give you something to think about. These issues are not cut and dry or easy. Glad we have a forum to discuss[/quote]

You are right, it's never as cut and dry as we want it to be. I'm not happy about the rise of opoid deaths either, or the rise of fentanyl, or the fact that prescription drugs seem to be the gateway to heroin abuse and everyone ignores it because script drug companies are basically untouchable now. Just not sure what the solution to it is because as long as healthcare continues to be a profitable industry like everything else in America, it will be a problem.

Re: Tax bill
 

No ,he isn't .Chico isn't even in the same ballpark.He wants to blame someone ,anyone and so it's Obamacare and the media ,he is no different than trump.As for the media you're dead wrong on that I know they have been writing stories for years and nothing has happen. Opiods ...while tragic and sad are just the next best thing in the drug war that has been going on for years. Do I need to post the articles about dead friends and children of dead friends to prove my point?


Please enlighten me on how making sure as many Americans as possible can have health care can be responsible for the opiod crises?

Chico, ACA = Affordable Care Act ,it did what it meant to do,insure more Americans then ever before,please show me where I say it's fine? I'll wait.
Short of a Universal Health System it was better than what we had.

Re: Tax bill
 

I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182545]I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.[/quote]

Thank you.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182545]I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.[/quote]

Idk the correlation Chico is trying to make, but I am saying the system as its' set up (where marijuana is still frowned upon despite the growing realization it's not as addictive as prescription drugs) is a partial reason the heroin epidemic is so widespread today. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but it's obvious there are people out there that get a prescription for some pain medication and end up switching to heroin when their habit can't be supported by their wallet. Now how much of that is people being weak-minded and not necessarily needing pain meds? Idk. But I do know it's very easy to get pain pills, whether it's on the street or through faking an injury.

Again, I don't see an answer as long as healthcare continues to be a for-profit industry. I doubt any of the large script manufacturers give two shits about the heroin epidemic as long as the shareholders/higher ups are happy.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182528]Really, our only hope is that Chico and the rest of his supporters will flip in 5 years when they realize the middle class cuts were only temporary and the corporate cuts were permanent. According to [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/30/how-the-republican-tax-bill-benefits-the-rich-according-to-government-analysis/"]the analysis [/URL] in about 5 years or so (should be just enough time for Chico to forget Trump/Congress is responsible for this) the middle class will see their taxes go up.[/quote]

It's hilarious to me for people to knock the tax bill for changes that take effect in 5 - 10 years. The economy isn't a 5year plan that the old communists (and current ones in China) like to draw up. In 5 years, the House of Representatives will have had 2 elections, the Senate will have seen nearly 70percent of it's membership gone through elections (more if the slush fund ever becomes public). And then to say that Corporate tax cuts are permanent. The Congress doesn't work like that. They are not revoking their right to change any tax law they see fit. But of course Corporations do make plans based on stability so the corporate tax laws should be written with an eye on stability.

Fyi in 5 years, Trump will have already faced his second election - if he makes it that far - and if the economy does stay on a growth path, he certainly will argue the tax bill was a big part of it.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182547]Idk the correlation Chico is trying to make, but I am saying the system as its' set up (where marijuana is still frowned upon despite the growing realization it's not as addictive as prescription drugs) is a partial reason the heroin epidemic is so widespread today. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but it's obvious there are people out there that get a prescription for some pain medication and end up switching to heroin when their habit can't be supported by their wallet. Now how much of that is people being weak-minded and not necessarily needing pain meds? Idk. But I do know it's very easy to get pain pills, whether it's on the street or through faking an injury.

Again, I don't see an answer as long as healthcare continues to be a for-profit industry. I doubt any of the large script manufacturers give two shits about the heroin epidemic as long as the shareholders/higher ups are happy.[/quote]

Marijuana and opioids as a method of pain relief is about as big of a false equivalency as has ever existed.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182547]Idk the correlation Chico is trying to make, but I am saying the system as its' set up (where marijuana is still frowned upon despite the growing realization it's not as addictive as prescription drugs) is a partial reason the heroin epidemic is so widespread today. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but it's obvious there are people out there that get a prescription for some pain medication and end up switching to heroin when their habit can't be supported by their wallet. Now how much of that is people being weak-minded and not necessarily needing pain meds? Idk. But I do know it's very easy to get pain pills, whether it's on the street or through faking an injury.

Again, I don't see an answer as long as healthcare continues to be a for-profit industry. I doubt any of the large script manufacturers give two shits about the heroin epidemic as long as the shareholders/higher ups are happy.[/quote]

As recently as 2 years ago the FDA approved Oxycontin use for children as young as 11. We have created a positive feedback loop of opioid addiction by allowing the targeting of young people.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182549]Marijuana and opioids as a method of pain relief is about as big of a false equivalency as has ever existed.[/quote]

Why don't we ask NFL players [URL="https://www.theplayerstribune.com/eugene-monroe-nfl-opioids-cannabis-my-body-remembers/"]what they prefer[/URL]? They'd have a pretty good idea about the constant physical pain that accompanies playing in the NFL. Let me guess: You don't care what their opinion is, because they know the risks when they sign up.

Nah, why don't we ask people [URL="http://www.newsweek.com/will-jeff-sessions-medical-marijuana-718676"]that have tried everything[/URL] to handle pain management but cannabis/cannabinoids was the only effective treatment?

Nah, why don't we ask people that have extreme epilepsy if cannabis derived substances [URL="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-cannabis-treat-epileptic-seizures/"]have worked where opoids/others have failed[/URL]? Never mind that your attorney general doesn't even want medical marijuana to be legal.

My only point was that medical marijuana has shown to be effective, and less addictive than opoids. But opoids are legal, and have the backing of a multi-billion dollar industry, which is a big reason why marijuana is not. I'm not gonna argue that average people that enjoy getting high need it, just that it should be legal and regulated on the same basis as alcohol so we can all share that nice boost of tax revenue we would see if it was federally legalized.

Re: Tax bill
 

Not an argument that there is a problem never said other wise but it's all so ignorant to say that it just started and it's all Obamacare fault. Different medication works differently on different people ,what works for one does not for another.I get that and yes there are Doctors that have abused their prescription privileges.

Medical marijuana has it's place as do opiods, as does all medicine...if handled [B]"CORRECTLY".[/B]
There is a personal responsibility that must be admitted to,you can't pull a Chico and blame Obamacare becuase of your political affiliation.

Mooby ,you're right lets ask the NFL players ,from the 60's and 70's,lets hear their stories of ,pain shots before a game,steroids use and pain pills abuse .They pretty much all did it to play,all needed the money back then.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182545]I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.[/quote]

I appreciate the input and didn’t know. It’s just always been on my mind since adoption of the healthcare law and the opioid deaths kicked into overdrive right at the same time.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182560]I appreciate the input and didn’t know. It’s just always been on my mind since adoption of the healthcare law and the opioid deaths kicked into overdrive right at the same time.[/quote]

It also rains every time I put my umbrella up, maybe I should stop doing that.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182552]Why don't we ask NFL players [URL="https://www.theplayerstribune.com/eugene-monroe-nfl-opioids-cannabis-my-body-remembers/"]what they prefer[/URL]? They'd have a pretty good idea about the constant physical pain that accompanies playing in the NFL. Let me guess: You don't care what their opinion is, because they know the risks when they sign up.

Nah, why don't we ask people [URL="http://www.newsweek.com/will-jeff-sessions-medical-marijuana-718676"]that have tried everything[/URL] to handle pain management but cannabis/cannabinoids was the only effective treatment?

Nah, why don't we ask people that have extreme epilepsy if cannabis derived substances [URL="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-cannabis-treat-epileptic-seizures/"]have worked where opoids/others have failed[/URL]? Never mind that your attorney general doesn't even want medical marijuana to be legal.

My only point was that medical marijuana has shown to be effective, and less addictive than opoids. But opoids are legal, and have the backing of a multi-billion dollar industry, which is a big reason why marijuana is not. I'm not gonna argue that average people that enjoy getting high need it, just that it should be legal and regulated on the same basis as alcohol so we can all share that nice boost of tax revenue we would see if it was federally legalized.[/quote]

Marijuana is not as effective at relieving pain. There have been countless studies on this. If you ask NFL players, who are about as physically tough a group as you can find, the responses you get are not representative of the broader population. Taking the edge off may be all a player requires, because he’s tough as nails. A 60 year old woman recovering from a hip replacement is entirely a different story.

You are also completely ignoring the damage that marijuana does to lung function and other significant health implications. For some reason marijuana has developed this reputation for being a healthy way to self medicate. It’s just not founded in facts.

I’m not saying the use of opioids isn’t a problem. Our doctors are being much more thoughtful about going to them. But every one of them will tell you that if opioids are determined to be a bad fit for a patient, then the next best option for pain relief is the maximum allowable dose of ibuprofen, not marijuana.

Marijuana is medically prescribed for only specific types of pain management. Eye pressure caused by glaucoma, an example.

If you throw out your back and you expect marijuana to help, you’re an uneducated idiot. Doctors do not get kickbacks from prescribing opioids, and big pharma makes next to nothing on opioids - they’re all generics, there are no patents protecting high prices.

I love how these notions get legs and everybody rolls with it without questioning or asking someone who knows.

You’ve been had, mooby.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182651]Marijuana is not as effective at relieving pain. There have been countless studies on this. If you ask NFL players, who are about as physically tough a group as you can find, the responses you get are not representative of the broader population. Taking the edge off may be all a player requires, because he’s tough as nails. A 60 year old woman recovering from a hip replacement is entirely a different story.

You are also completely ignoring the damage that marijuana does to lung function and other significant health implications. For some reason marijuana has developed this reputation for being a healthy way to self medicate. It’s just not founded in facts.

I’m not saying the use of opioids isn’t a problem. Our doctors are being much more thoughtful about going to them. But every one of them will tell you that if opioids are determined to be a bad fit for a patient, then the next best option for pain relief is the maximum allowable dose of ibuprofen, not marijuana.

Marijuana is medically prescribed for only specific types of pain management. Eye pressure caused by glaucoma, an example.

If you throw out your back and you expect marijuana to help, you’re an uneducated idiot. Doctors do not get kickbacks from prescribing opioids, and big pharma makes next to nothing on opioids - they’re all generics, there are no patents protecting high prices.

I love how these notions get legs and everybody rolls with it without questioning or asking someone who knows.

You’ve been had, mooby.[/quote]

Not as effective as opoids? I'll concede that. Not as addictive? I'll definitely take that argument. And my knowledge as to what marijuana helps is limited to the aforementioned articles, so I'm not gonna argue it solves back pain either. If it did, I'd have been blazin' daily when I pulled a ligament a couple years ago. I treated that with good ol' fashioned chiropractics instead.

Just please don't act like there aren't doctors out there throwing out fraudulent prescriptions left and right for no other reason than to make some extra money. Pill farms are fairly common in Florida, and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't elsewhere too. Where else are the street dealers gonna get their supply?

Also idk where this argument is going. I didn't even take the percocets when I got my wisdoms pulled, because idw fuck with that shit. My sole point is that America's heroin epidemic starts with the opoid epidemic. I'm not gonna debate the effectiveness of marijuana vs. opoids for pain relief, it's something I know very little about. But sitting there acting like marijuana really has very few beneficial aids makes you look biased Schneed, especially in light of the fact you work in the health industry.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182560]I appreciate the input and didn’t know. It’s just always been on my mind since adoption of the healthcare law and the opioid deaths kicked into overdrive right at the same time.[/quote]

BS.you just didn't pay attention to it.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182642]It also rains every time I put my umbrella up, maybe I should stop doing that.[/quote]

i laughed for real at this

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1182742]BS.you just didn't pay attention to it.[/quote]

unfortunately the way my brain work and what I do, im always asking why....and yes Ive followed opioid epidemic, ive been commenting on it here for sometime. But the increase in use and spike in deaths are facts.

I think its natural to look at a major policy change as a reason for the spike, I don't that's crazy from someone who is not in the industry.

Or we can shrug our shoulders & bury our head in the sand...or as I would call it, the Obama Administration's plan on dealing with the Opioid epidemic

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182811]unfortunately the way my brain work and what I do, im always asking why....and yes Ive followed opioid epidemic, ive been commenting on it here for sometime. But the increase in use and spike in deaths are facts.

I think its natural to look at a major policy change as a reason for the spike, I don't that's crazy from someone who is not in the industry.

Or we can shrug our shoulders & bury our head in the sand...or as I would call it, the Obama Administration's plan on dealing with the Opioid epidemic[/quote]

LOL, No , I call BS on your assertions.You have no proof ,none, that the Affordable Care Act is responsible for the Opiod crisis. In your world you think that once Obama was elected all these people said lets go take drug's and die becuase Obama's in office?

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1182822]LOL, No , I call BS on your assertions.You have no proof ,none, that the Affordable Care Act is responsible for the Opiod crisis. In your world you think that once Obama was elected all these people said lets go take drug's and die becuase Obama's in office?[/quote]

yes I think I understand you calling bs...which is fine.

I don't have proof, I NEVER SAID I DID. I simply said why hasn't anyone taking a fuckin look at a possible correlation?

Dude, I wanted Obamacare to work...

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182738]Not as effective as opoids? I'll concede that. Not as addictive? I'll definitely take that argument. And my knowledge as to what marijuana helps is limited to the aforementioned articles, so I'm not gonna argue it solves back pain either. If it did, I'd have been blazin' daily when I pulled a ligament a couple years ago. I treated that with good ol' fashioned chiropractics instead.

Just please don't act like there aren't doctors out there throwing out fraudulent prescriptions left and right for no other reason than to make some extra money. Pill farms are fairly common in Florida, and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't elsewhere too. Where else are the street dealers gonna get their supply?

Also idk where this argument is going. I didn't even take the percocets when I got my wisdoms pulled, because idw fuck with that shit. My sole point is that America's heroin epidemic starts with the opoid epidemic. I'm not gonna debate the effectiveness of marijuana vs. opoids for pain relief, it's something I know very little about. But sitting there acting like marijuana really has very few beneficial aids makes you look biased Schneed, especially in light of the fact you work in the health industry.[/quote]

I don't believe I did dismiss it. I explained that for very specific types of pain, like eye pressure caused by glaucoma, doctors agree that marijuana's efficacy is high.

But I also explained that just because opioids are addictive and a major problem, that doesn't mean that marijuana is the next best choice for most types of pain. It's not. Every doctor in America would say it's ibuprofen (Advil), naproxen (Aleve), or acetomenaphen (Tyelenol).

And I also explained that opioids don't make much money for big pharma. That's not a bias - I see what we get paid for administering vicodin and perc in the hospital, it's pennies. The notion that big pharma is getting rich on opioids is just not founded in fact.

Big pharma gets rich on biologics more than any other drug family. Pain management is a drop in their bucket.

So I wasn't dismissing it. I was just systematically destroying your poorly thought out position on marijuana's efficacy for pain relief.

Re: Tax bill
 

And mooby, to address your other point re: the black market for the opioid drugs, yes that's a real problem. I don't view marijuana as a solution to that in any way, though. I view the solution to that being finding the doctors participating in that process, prosecute them, and strip them of their license.

If marijuana were as effective at relieving pain as opioids, it wouldn't even be a question. Doctors would prescribe it. And hell they'd probably grow it themselves.

But it's not.

Re: Tax bill
 

Getting Back to the Tax Bill........................



[url]https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/4-big-problems-treasury-report-205716261.html[/url]

Re: Tax bill
 

CNN link with a tax guessculator

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/politics/calculate-americans-taxes-senate-reform-bill/index.html]Use this calculator to see how the tax bill affects your paycheck - CNNPolitics[/url]

Seems like the lower brackets, including mine, do okay the first 5 to 6 years. I don't put much stock in the effects after 7 years, because the house will have gone through 3 iterations by then and the Senate 1.

Re: Tax bill
 

About 3 out of 4 Americans will see their taxes go down.

I like it. Wish it helped the middle class more than it helps the wealthy, but help is help. I'd like it even more if they would now look at spending and cut that down so that our deficit doesn't get bigger.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183671]About 3 out of 4 Americans will see their taxes go down.

I like it. Wish it helped the middle class more than it helps the wealthy, but help is help. I'd like it even more if they would now look at spending and cut that down so that our deficit doesn't get bigger.[/quote]

Just playing with the calculator, it seemed like it was fairly across the board that people will see their taxes go down and after tax income go up. I think it's common sense that people making under 20K aren't paying into the system, but they still see some increase with the refundable credits, and the very top sees little percentage gain according to the linked calculator, but of course 1/2 % of 500K ($2500) is still more than 4% of 50K($2000), but the $2000 will mean more to the guy earning 50K than 2500 does to a guy making 500K

Re: Tax bill
 

Important to note though that the calculator is intentionally simplifying things to make it digestible. Here's where there's some nuance:

- if you live in a state where there are high local taxes (at the state or local level), you're going to get hurt because it caps the deductions you can take for these if you're itemizing. Strategically smart for the GOP to hit these people because they weren't likely to vote GOP anyway.

- If you are single with no kids, you're much more likely to get hurt than you are if you're married with kids. The family and child tax credits are what causes most in the lower to middle income brackets to get any benefit. If you don't have walking tax deductions then you are more likely to get stung.

- If you own stock, have parents that may soon pass an inheritance down to you, or have real estate investments you stand to benefit significantly. Lower corporate taxes, lower estate taxes, and the elimination on certain real estate taxes.

- If you're in the 95th - 99th percentile in terms of household income, you make out better on a % basis than any other income group.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1183677]Important to note though that the calculator is intentionally simplifying things to make it digestible. Here's where there's some nuance:

- if you live in a state where there are high local taxes (at the state or local level), you're going to get hurt because it caps the deductions you can take for these if you're itemizing. Strategically smart for the GOP to hit these people because they weren't likely to vote GOP anyway.

- If you are single with no kids, you're much more likely to get hurt than you are if you're married with kids. The family and child tax credits are what causes most in the lower to middle income brackets to get any benefit. If you don't have walking tax deductions then you are more likely to get stung.

- If you own stock, have parents that may soon pass an inheritance down to you, or have real estate investments you stand to benefit significantly. Lower corporate taxes, lower estate taxes, and the elimination on certain real estate taxes.

- If you're in the 95th - 99th percentile in terms of household income, you make out better on a % basis than any other income group.[/quote]

the calculator supposedly takes the state into effect, and checking it, states like NY and NJ do show a hit

Likewise it takes into account status and kids.

I'm actually not sure right now where my kids fall due to ages and divorce stuff, so I looked at both, and by the calculator as a single middle income guy with no kids in MD, I should still see some benefit, granted not as much as if I claim Head of Household with kids.

But that's always been the case...

I will say this, I know that where I fall, I am the least likely to see a positive note from this tax bill, I'm neither rich nor poor, nor overly invested, or needing/qualifying for government help. Yet I am still for any reduction overall in taxes, and I would like to see a similar reduction in overall spending. Unfortunately, while I would love to see the sequestration continued, and other programs take similar cuts, Trump is not going to cut military spending, and the democrats are not going to cut social spending so up goes the debt :(