Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Allen has taken a lot of heat from fans for the Cousins situation. The more I am reading papers from Denver Cleveland and New York I am seeing stories souring on the idea of signing Cousins. And Buffalo does not have that kind of money. So will it justify the Skins handling of the situation?

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Gonna be honest, I don't see the need for another Kirk Cousins thread.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;1188520]Gonna be honest, I don't see the need for another Kirk Cousins thread.[/QUOTE]Delete if you want.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=Dan73;1188521]Delete if you want.

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I am not a Mod, therefore can't do that

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

I’ll gladly eat crow if he doesn’t become the highest paid player in the league. I’m just lost on this idea some people have that he won’t draw strong interest from a few teams and get big money.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Idk about you Quake but I kinda want to enjoy revisiting this thread in a month after Kirk signs elsewhere.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188525]I’ll gladly eat crow if he doesn’t become the highest paid player in the league. I’m just lost on this idea some people have that he won’t draw strong interest from a few teams and get big money.[/QUOTE]I am starting to see articles out there about what it takes to get to the Superbowl and Cousins is not elite. How the other QBs may be signed for around 20 million a year and the teams that are qb needy could draft save money and build around a guy.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1188526]Idk about you Quake but I kinda want to enjoy revisiting this thread in a month after Kirk signs elsewhere.[/QUOTE]I think it will be interesting if he doesn't get Smith money at least or if he becomes the highest paid but the team that signs him does no better than the Skins.

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Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Good arguments could have been made against Stafford, Carr, and certainly Garoppolo getting the money they did. Are any of those guys “elite”? I don’t think so.

Kirk is going to get paid. You’re in denial if you think otherwise.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=Dan73;1188527]I am starting to see articles out there about what it takes to get to the Superbowl and Cousins is not elite. How the other QBs may be signed for around 20 million a year and the teams that are qb needy could draft save money and build around a guy.

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???No one says KC was "elite". Eagles QB's not "elite" good,YES but "elite no.They(the TEAM) had a great season with a great run game and a hell of a defense but their QB's are not elite. I for one believe the Skins are only a few piece's short of a very good contending team .If JG gets what he did for 5 games then no doubt KC gets the same if not more,I haven't seen any not one article that says KC is not worth it.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

On to Alex Smith folks. Let this rest, he's gone and will get a huge deal. Good for him

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188529]Good arguments could have been made against Stafford, Carr, and certainly Garoppolo getting the money they did. Are any of those guys “elite”? I don’t think so.

Kirk is going to get paid. You’re in denial if you think otherwise.[/QUOTE]Stafford definitely not. I could understand Carr and Garoppolo for their impact on their teams. Before Carr got hurt the Raiders were looking great and they lost him and the team went pretty much belly up.

Garoppolo immediate impact on the 49ers.

My family who are Lions fans were like Redskin fans. Our qb is setting records for yards. But in both cases it did not translate to wins.



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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

I think this whole argument of Cousins getting paid or not is irrelevant because of his lack of interest in being part of the team.

Cousins gave up the security of a long term contract and guaranteed money because he did not want to be here. Yes, he got 40+ million dollar in franchise money, but all of that could have easily gone away with injury.

So as a team, I don't know how the Redskins could have negotiated with a player that doesn't care about guaranteed money orthe security of a long term contract (two of the biggest bargaining chips) and was willing to risk injury for two seasons to get what he wanted.

To me, the only mistake the team did was to keep him around after the first franchise tag. They should have traded him last offseason.

Kirk is a good quarterback and I'm sure he'll play well for a team where he wants to be; and I'm sure he's going to get his money. But he didn't want to play here and only did enough to keep good stats.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188530]???No one says KC was "elite". Eagles QB's not "elite" good,YES but "elite no.They(the TEAM) had a great season with a great run game and a hell of a defense but their QB's are not elite. I for one believe the Skins are only a few piece's short of a very good contending team .If JG gets what he did for 5 games then no doubt KC gets the same if not more,I haven't seen any not one article that says KC is not worth it.[/QUOTE]There was an article on NFL.com where many felt he was not worth more than Jimmy G. And articles in Denver and N.Y. saying their teams would be better drafting and or signing cheap and qbs.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Writers don’t pay QBs so ultimately who cares what articles say.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188537]Writers don’t pay QBs so ultimately who cares what articles say.[/QUOTE]Some writers speculate others can end up being tools for a team or agent.

So what happens if these writers are being used to change fans views before free agency.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Was Osweiler worth it? The market speaks for itself. Never seen any article that decided a qb's worth to any team.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=Dan73;1188538]Some writers speculate others can end up being tools for a team or agent.

So what happens if these writers are being used to change fans views before free agency.

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That's often what happens. It's naive to think the media isn't used to sway opinions. I mean, it's used in the political realm, why would it not be used in sports?

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Sorry Kirk, we can’t go above $20m per year, didn’t you see that NFL.com article?? [emoji38]

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188544]Sorry Kirk, we can’t go above $20m per year, didn’t you see that NFL.com article?? [emoji38][/QUOTE]You don't think his agent wouldn't pull out articles or demand from other cities to try and leverage up an offer?

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=Dan73;1188545]You don't think his agent wouldn't pull out articles or demand from other cities to try and leverage up an offer?

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You really think both sides are comparing online articles in contract negotiations??

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

If this is a KC thread, lets close it and let the final KC thread be the FINAL KC THREAD.

But I think the OP has a valid discussion of our FO and their concluding the saga even though it does have a bit of dead horsemeat around it as well.

I want to give the FO good props for the last 2 years in most all areas not QB related, and I think they get a pass on KC because, like it or not, he at some point decided he was not going to hold serious negotiations. The FO bears a lot of that blame, but once KC set his mind to his path, I think the FO had to make new plans. I think we take Calais Campbell IF the FO knew without a doubt that KC was onboard, but KC's intransigence made the FO hold back on any splash, in case KC negotiations got close and they needed that extra bit to push it over the edge. (That's all speculation though)

This year KC said in his interview that he wouldn't do a thing until after March, and the FO wisely walked away. That was the right move as soon as KC said he would wait.

FO gets a B+ from me for the overall KC drama. My breakdown of the full hindsight case is this:
First quarter: D- Snyder held on to RG3 took tightly this quarter
2nd quarter: C+ they should have made a better pitch for a long term deal, but did anybody REALLY feel KC was a no questions asked guy after his first full year?
Third quarter: D-, the second tag should have been non exclusive, and then KC maybe would have felt he got his chance to see where his value on the market would have been AND we may have gotten better compensation if KC left
4th quarter:A+ closed it off with a bang. Once the FO knew that no deal was there, they didn't play footsies with the scorned lover, they took the bitter pill, and we will have a better team for it.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1188546]You really think both sides are comparing online articles in contract negotiations??[/QUOTE]I have no doubt the court of public opinion is used in negotiations. Having been in negotiations I have seen it used in arguments. Public perception is important when you desire having a paying public on your side.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

Dan, did you not notice the thread entitled [B]The [B]LAST[/B] Kirk Cousins Saga Thread[/B]?

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1188548]If this is a KC thread, lets close it and let the final KC thread be the FINAL KC THREAD.

But I think the OP has a valid discussion of our FO and their concluding the saga even though it does have a bit of dead horsemeat around it as well.

I want to give the FO good props for the last 2 years in most all areas not QB related, and I think they get a pass on KC because, like it or not, he at some point decided he was not going to hold serious negotiations. The FO bears a lot of that blame, but once KC set his mind to his path, I think the FO had to make new plans. I think we take Calais Campbell IF the FO knew without a doubt that KC was onboard, but KC's intransigence made the FO hold back on any splash, in case KC negotiations got close and they needed that extra bit to push it over the edge. (That's all speculation though)

This year KC said in his interview that he wouldn't do a thing until after March, and the FO wisely walked away. That was the right move as soon as KC said he would wait.

FO gets a B+ from me for the overall KC drama. My breakdown of the full hindsight case is this:
First quarter: D- Snyder held on to RG3 took tightly this quarter
2nd quarter: C+ they should have made a better pitch for a long term deal, but did anybody REALLY feel KC was a no questions asked guy after his first full year?
Third quarter: D-, the second tag should have been non exclusive, and then KC maybe would have felt he got his chance to see where his value on the market would have been AND we may have gotten better compensation if KC left
4th quarter:A+ closed it off with a bang. Once the FO knew that no deal was there, they didn't play footsies with the scorned lover, they took the bitter pill, and we will have a better team for it.[/QUOTE]I look at RGIII and guys like him an Manzel and this these guy put up on too much of a pedestal and it ruins them for the game. Thinking that they are more important or bigger than the team. And I can't help but wonder if the same thing didn't end up happening to Cousins.

I think back to Haynesworth he though too much of himself to adapt to a new scheme ( mind you I hated going for 4 3 to 3 4)

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1188551]Dan, did you not notice the thread entitled [B]The [B]LAST[/B] Kirk Cousins Saga Thread[/B]?[/QUOTE]Delete this thread if you want.

This was meant to be more about the perception of the FO depending how it plays out. If he does not get the money he is hoping do people say maybe FO was right. Or if does get paid and it hurts the other team and they end up worse than the Skins do people say smart move by the Skins.

One of the things I always hated as a Skins fan was hearing Deon Sanders talk about how Dan Snyder built an addition on his place with the money he got.

I can't pull for a guy all about the money. I like seeing guys get paid who are good and team first players.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

It won't change my perception of the FO if Smith works out. Smithers painted himself into a corner with the poor decisions he made years ago concerning Cousins's contract. This season, tagging Cousins would have been crippling to roster building, so [U]something[/U] had to be done. So the Skins gave up a top-notch DB and a third round pick for the right to pay Alex Smith huge money. This was a cluster **** from start to finish.

But we already discussed all of this ad infinitum before you joined and started this vanity thread.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

To me, this is moreso a front office thread than a KC thread.

If the FO does well in free agency and the draft, I'll give them an A for the whole Kirk thing. Kirk won't win a Super Bowl anywhere, and they wanted to see more progress before giving him the world. Gruden and Scott M both seem to agree that he isn't worth what he wants as well.

We sign Zach Brown and a starting WR, then get a starting RB and some more beef for the DL in the 1st 2 rounds of draft, and then some more OL and secondary depth the rest of the draft, we'll be gucci.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1188564]To me, this is moreso a front office thread than a KC thread.

If the FO does well in free agency and the draft, I'll give them an A for the whole Kirk thing. Kirk won't win a Super Bowl anywhere, and they wanted to see more progress before giving him the world. Gruden and Scott M both seem to agree that he isn't worth what he wants as well.

We sign Zach Brown and a starting WR, then get a starting RB and some more beef for the DL in the 1st 2 rounds of draft, and then some more OL and secondary depth the rest of the draft, we'll be gucci.[/QUOTE]I
Brown I would like to see back but if they feel they can upgrade over him with their first or send pick then that is ok. But they better address NT ILB RB and WR with either 2 in FA and 2 in the high end of the draft to get me more on board to be excited about the season.

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Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=Dan73;1188571]I
Brown I would like to see back but if they feel they can upgrade over him with their first or send pick then that is ok. But they better address NT ILB RB and WR with either 2 in FA and 2 in the high end of the draft to get me more on board to be excited about the season.

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Zach Brown and Mason Foster would be solid MLB starters but I wouldn't be mad at Roquan Smith or T. Edmunds flying around in a Skins uni. Brown and either of those 2 would be a great starting MLB group. Either way, I want Brown back. Don't think Mason is making so much that we can't keep him as a great backup to both spots.

I want a veteran receiver in FA as we need someone ready to produce asap. Rookie WRs struggle a bit adjusting.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1188551]Dan, did you not notice the thread entitled [B]The [B]LAST[/B] Kirk Cousins Saga Thread[/B]?[/quote]

I told you guys we would need a Final Final Revised FINAL thread.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188589]I told you guys we would need a Final Final Revised FINAL thread.[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/costanza-clapping.gif[/IMG]

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=Dan73;1188536]There was an article on NFL.com where many felt he was not worth more than Jimmy G. And articles in Denver and N.Y. saying their teams would be better drafting and or signing cheap and qbs.

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Honestly can't find it but did find this one and here I will link it for you..........


[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000916401/article/free-agency-fits-kirk-cousins-to-browns-leveon-bell-to-bucs]Free agency fits: Kirk Cousins to Browns? Le'Veon Bell to Bucs? - NFL.com[/url


Cousins is about to become the best quarterback to ever hit free agency. He's a Pro Bowl-caliber player without a significant injury history who is in the prime of his career and has years of high-end production ahead of him. His availability will present an interesting opportunity for quarterback-needy teams.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

In the end, Bruce messed up when they franchised him the first time. Making the trade for Alex was the best thing to do because Kirk was not coming back. In the unlikely occurrence that he did come back, it was going to be for top dollar.

Re: Is Allen Justified If No One Overpays for Cousins
 

[quote=MTK;1188529]Good arguments could have been made against Stafford, Carr, and certainly Garoppolo getting the money they did. Are any of those guys “elite”? I don’t think so.

Kirk is going to get paid. You’re in denial if you think otherwise.[/quote]

I don't get it either Matty. I mean Matt Flynn got a 40 million deal from what two games in Green Bay? Osweiler got an insane contract worth some 75 million and was pretty average (if not below) in the few games he played in Denver. Yet somehow, we are to believe Kirk Cousins who's thrown for over 4,000 yards the past 3 seasons plus a good amount of TDs isn't going to be paid higher than some guy who played 6-7 games.

Bullshit. Expect that contract to hit the 30mil/yr with about 90-100mil guaranteed. Is he worth it? Fuck no. Teams are idiots though and they'll do whatever they can.