Battle of the bad GM's
 

[URL="https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/CerrVi0.htm"]Vinny Cerrato[/URL]

9 years as Redskins GM, regular season record of 62-82, 1-2 playoff record, crowning achievement signing Albert Haynesworth to a 7 yr deal worth $100M with $41M guaranteed.

[URL="https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/AlleBr0.htm"]Bruce Allen[/URL]

7 years as Redskins GM, regular season record of 58-82-1, playoff record 0-2, crowning achievement botching the Kurt Cousins situation.

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Had to vote for BA there was some what of a sense of optimism with him that was lacking with Vinny. Hope to give BA another opportunity to "win off the field" here.

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Neither one, they both sucked. I didn’t want either one signed as I had seen what Cerrato did with the 49ers and Allen with the Raiders.

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This might be the toughest poll to answer in a while. Also I think Bruce Allen is 0-2 for the playoffs, we went in 2012/2015. Don't sell the man short Matty.

Also let's put some faces to these names. Never forget:

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1669723498/vinny-cerrato-012308_400x400.jpg[/IMG]

vs.

[IMG]https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richmond.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/8b/08b55f77-9d23-50b3-8cd1-df11330f3dd5/58c33a2bc1b64.image.jpg?resize=400%2C267[/IMG]

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Winning off the field....

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It was tough to choose but I went with Vinny. How he handled the situation with Jim Zorn was completely disaster, which led Redskins to rock bottom. But then, it seems like Redskins have hit bottom few times in last several years...

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I voted Allen, the RG3 / Cousins debacle happened on his watch. Far more damaging than Haynesworth.

Battle of the bad GM's
 

I vote for Bruce. Vinny was an idiot, but he wasn’t sleazy. He also atleast had us as offseason champs.


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I'd like to punch BA way more than I ever did Crazy Vinny. Bruce gets my vote. Weasily sum' bitch.

[IMG]https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/image-library/land/1000/a/animals-33521091280.jpg[/IMG]

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Allen at least is a competent executive and he brought some sanity back to the way we spend money.

Vinny did nothing right.



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Both are plain horse shit. Allen still having a job is completely unacceptable. He has fucked the QB position up from day 1.

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I voted Allen. That RG3 trade set us back multiple years, as did the Kirk deal. His deals have had longer lasting implications, setting us back more years.

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Sean Taylor died on Vinny's watch.

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Vinny declared war on the fans. Bruce never did that. So i voted for Vinny.

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To answer the question seriously, I think Allen's method of team building is more likely to result in sustained contention. Vinny went out and whiffed on too many big money free agents and we traded away too many valuable draft picks. Some of that was on Joe Gibbs though if we're being completely honest, the same way the RGIII trade was on Shanahan (remember, they both had final say on roster moves and trades at that time).

But Allen has adopted McCloughan's approach to building through the draft and letting marginal free agents walk for overpriced contracts, turning them into compensatory selections.

That's the formula Bill Belichick uses, except he knows how to coach and how to pick players. Allen at least has the right formula, with none of the know-how. Vinny had nothing at all.

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Vinny struck out swinging for the fences.
Bruce's objective is mediocrity.

Vinny brought in high priced free agents to fill voids on the team hoping they would push us into the playoffs.
Bruce creates voids and fills them if the $1 store version of their replacement( Garcon/Jackson - Pryor/Richardson).

I give the edge to Vinny and his better record.

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Oh whoops, looked like I dropped this "Fire Bruce Allen" petition here. Guess I should pick this back up and stick it in my pocket...

[url]https://www.change.org/p/redskins-need-to-fire-bruce-allen/psf/promote_or_share[/url]

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Vinny’s w/l record is propped up a bit by Gibbs 2.0 so I don’t put too much stock in that


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There is no right or wrong answer here. Those ass clowns are probably 2 of the worst executives in all of pro sports in the last 30 years. Go Skins lol.

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Kirk cousins 4-24 record or w.ever when playing winning teams doesn't even make me feel bad... Malcom Kelly and Devin Thomas picked before DJax.... All the aging bad money signings on VC... But.... Fuckboth I vote 'indie'

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That's like voting between retarded and more retarded...the determining factor are the end results....both of them are equally terrible.

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I would say Bruce is worse. He has had his hand in 4 different QB's situations and they all turned out to be total failures. And even though Smith got hurt and that was out of his control, he was playing poorly. Plus there was no need to give him all that money. He did that to appease the fanbase cause he screwed up w/ Cousins.

Most people in positions of power in the NFL would get one or two chances w/ the Qb position. He's had 4. Not to mention all the PR embarrassments... winning off the field and so on. He has to be fired the second the game is over Sunday.

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Also the thing w/ the salary cap happened under Bruce. I mean he is just a dummy. If it wasn't for his last name there's no way he'd be working in the NFL.

On a side note his brother is a total piece of shit racist asshole.

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[quote=skinsfan69;1215062]Also the thing w/ the salary cap happened under Bruce. I mean he is just a dummy. If it wasn't for his last name there's no way he'd be working in the NFL.

On a side note his brother is a total piece of shit racist asshole.[/quote]

I'll put a lot of shit on Bruce Allen but the salary cap penalty was not one of them. We were one of a handful of teams that did that, the Packers were also one of the other teams that moved a big chunk of money, and we/the Cowboys were the only teams penalized because Mara was head of the committee.

"Spirit of the salary cap" what an absolute crock of shit that was. Mara can still suck a big ol' bag of dicks for that one.

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[quote=skinsfan69;1215060]I would say Bruce is worse. He has had his hand in 4 different QB's situations and they all turned out to be total failures. And even though Smith got hurt and that was out of his control, he was playing poorly. Plus there was no need to give him all that money. He did that to appease the fanbase cause he screwed up w/ Cousins.

Most people in positions of power in the NFL would get one or two chances w/ the Qb position. He's had 4. Not to mention all the PR embarrassments... winning off the field and so on. [B]He has to be fired the second the game is over Sunday[/B].[/quote]

Don't hold your breath. I'm still 50/50 on if he'll be fired, but I'd say 20/80 odds that he isn't fired immediately/moved to business ops.

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It’s amazing how short memories are around here. Vinny was amazingly inept at his job. When Bruce came in, we considered him a savior of sorts, or at least someone who could keep DS at bay. Didn’t exactly work out that way, but as bad as he is in his own way, Bruce is leagues ahead of Vinny.

Anybody that thinks differently is either very new here or has forgotten just how bad the good old days really were.

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[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1215071]It’s amazing how short memories are around here. Vinny was amazingly inept at his job. When Bruce came in, we considered him a savior of sorts, or at least someone who could keep DS at bay. Didn’t exactly work out that way, but as bad as he is in his own way, Bruce is leagues ahead of Vinny.

Anybody that thinks differently is either very new here or has forgotten just how bad the good old days really were.[/quote]

Leagues ahead? I think the Redskins average 6.5 wins a year under Allen. You are what your record says you are. I am new here, only been a Redskin fan since I moved from the left coast 7 years ago, but I have been following the NFL for 50 years. I still vote Allen the worst because he has repeatedly botched the QB situation in an era where the QB is by far the most important position on the field.

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[QUOTE=mooby;1215069]I'll put a lot of shit on Bruce Allen but the salary cap penalty was not one of them. We were one of a handful of teams that did that, the Packers were also one of the other teams that moved a big chunk of money, and we/the Cowboys were the only teams penalized because Mara was head of the committee.



"Spirit of the salary cap" what an absolute crock of shit that was. Mara can still suck a big ol' bag of dicks for that one.[/QUOTE]100% right on. Screw job by Mara.

Dan and Jerrah should have sued which would have opened up collusion litigation by the PA.

The league would have folded because they would have had to take a position which would be an admission to one or the other suit.

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[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1215071]It’s amazing how short memories are around here. Vinny was amazingly inept at his job. When Bruce came in, we considered him a savior of sorts, or at least someone who could keep DS at bay. Didn’t exactly work out that way, but as bad as he is in his own way, Bruce is leagues ahead of Vinny.

Anybody that thinks differently is either very new here or has forgotten just how bad the good old days really were.[/quote]

How many draft picks has Bruce given away when it comes to QB's? 1 pick for the Smith trade, plus a quality starter, 2 high picks for McNabb, 3 high picks for Griffin and then he let a quality starting QB leave. So by my count that is 6 high draft picks and two quality starters. I can not remember any NFL executive that has been stupid enough to give all that away, but also one that can survive that.

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[quote=skinsfan69;1215077]How many draft picks has Bruce given away when it comes to QB's? 1 pick for the Smith trade, plus a quality starter, 2 high picks for McNabb, 3 high picks for Griffin and then he let a quality starting QB leave. So by my count that is 6 high draft picks and two quality starters. I can not remember any NFL executive that has been stupid enough to give all that away, but also one that can survive that.[/quote]



Excellent point....but in the case of the picks that were given up for Robert Griffin Snyder and Allen outvoted Mike Shanahan.... but everything else you highlighted is Allen's own doing....

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[quote=skinsfan69;1215077]How many draft picks has Bruce given away when it comes to QB's? 1 pick for the Smith trade, plus a quality starter, 2 high picks for McNabb, 3 high picks for Griffin and then he let a quality starting QB leave. So by my count that is 6 high draft picks and two quality starters. I can not remember any NFL executive that has been stupid enough to give all that away, but also one that can survive that.[/quote]

Add to that, Allen was voted least trustworthy NFL GM by player agents.
I am not sure Cerrato ever reached that low.
Allen and Cerrato both did a terrible job of running this team.
Allen is not a very good leader and brings out the worst in the Redskins Front Office. The endless amount classless and embarrassing situations created by them is proof enough...it is time for Allen to go. We need a change.
Allen has had enough time. Time is up.

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Really I can't choose. Both of them sorry as shit. For right now I'll go with Allen since he's still here.

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Have we hit bottom of the barrel when we are choosing between which shit sandwich tastes better?

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[quote=NC_Skins;1215144]Have we hit bottom of the barrel when we are choosing between which shit sandwich tastes better?[/quote]

One of them has barbecue sauce on it, I suppose.

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[quote=Defensewins;1215083]Add to that, Allen was voted least trustworthy NFL GM by player agents.
I am not sure Cerrato ever reached that low.
Allen and Cerrato both did a terrible job of running this team.
Allen is not a very good leader and brings out the worst in the Redskins Front Office. The endless amount classless and embarrassing situations created by them is proof enough...it is time for Allen to go. We need a change.
[B]Allen has had enough time. Time is up.[/B][/quote]

That, Sir, is the very best reason to fire both Allen and Gruden. By now, Snyder should know their capabilities and it should be clear to him that they can't get him where he wants to go with his franchise. So, time is up.

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[quote=KI Skins Fan;1215156]That, Sir, is the very best reason to fire both Allen and Gruden. By now, Snyder should know their capabilities and it should be clear to him that they can't get him where he wants to go with his franchise. So, time is up.[/quote]

I agree with this post 100%. And this is how most NFL owners would view the situation. However, Dan is not most owners. Him and Bruce are close. They are bros. Closer than Dan and Vinny ever were. Dan worships Bruce's every word. And he takes what Bruce says as gospel. We could still be surprised if Bruce gets fired / re-assigned, and i'd be happy to eat crow if that's the case.

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[quote=SolidSnake84;1215166]I agree with this post 100%. And this is how most NFL owners would view the situation. However, Dan is not most owners. Him and Bruce are close. They are bros. Closer than Dan and Vinny ever were. [B]Dan worships Bruce's every word.[/B] And he takes what Bruce says as gospel. We could still be surprised if Bruce gets fired / re-assigned, and i'd be happy to eat crow if that's the case.[/quote]

Source?

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[quote=SolidSnake84;1215166]I agree with this post 100%. And this is how most NFL owners would view the situation. However, Dan is not most owners. Him and Bruce are close. They are bros. Closer than Dan and Vinny ever were. Dan worships Bruce's every word. And he takes what Bruce says as gospel. We could still be surprised if Bruce gets fired / re-assigned, and i'd be happy to eat crow if that's the case.[/quote]

I don't think it's that simple....people fail to mention that Bruce Allen is George Allen's son....and it's because of that fact Bruce Allen remains in the position he's in.....and no fucking body ever mentions this.....it would be the same thing if JD or Coy was team president and had a .412 winning percentage in 10 years....Coy or JD would get a pass because they are Joe Gibbs sons....and this is Snyder's problem....he gives Bruce Allen privilege because of what his father still means to the Redskins organization...anyone with keen insight can see that....if it were any other NFL organization Allen would have been terminated...just like he was in Tampa Bay.

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[quote=KI Skins Fan;1214958]Vinny declared war on the fans. Bruce never did that. So i voted for Vinny.[/quote]

This

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I voted Bruce, after reading a lot of the other post, they both are Danny Yes Men