Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

We are at another poignant moment in the Snyder owned Skins as we sink to 0-3 with more drama than most franchises with the only remaining holdout situation and a first round QB sitting on the bench while other rookie QB flourish on the field.

Typical Skins in a Snyder-Bruce Allen era.

Snyder isn’t going anywhere but could it be time for Allen to be fired? It’s the perfect time for Bruce to go as we are actually in a good position to reset the franchise.

1. The coaching staff is about to be turned over, A new GM will get to influence immediately the direction of field strategy and scheme. A young Offensive mind, a young Defensive mind, a college level coach, an experienced coordinator, a previous coach retread...this is the most important decision coming this offseason. Gruden was a Tampa-safe pick Bruce special which failed.

2. We have young talent at WR, QB, D-line, LB, and other pockets all over the field. Experienced kickers on special teams. The team’s talent isn’t bad and the depth is decent.

3. We are about to turnover aging vets and a swell of cap space is coming available next year. VD, CT, Colt, Case...contracts are up. Kerrigan has no guaranteed money after this year on his contract. Reed, AP, Norman, TW and Moses all contracts have limited guaranteed contracts and are all in play to cut and move on from. Even with Alex Smith cap hit, we could have some of the biggest cap space in the league if cuts happen....And they def should.

4. A new voice is needed for the fans. Goes without saying...ratings, attendance all time lows for the Org. We don’t want old Skins walking around, talking about the glory years...fuck that noise. We need a plan for the future and we need to move away from the past. A new GM could deliver a vision...or even develop a culture.

5. We need a GM who players can trust. If we don’t trade TW and he sits or reluctantly returns...We need a GM who can fix this issue fairly quick. I could see a situation where a new GM comes in, smooths over and extends the best Tackle in the game. It wouldn’t be the worst thing. Also, extending Scherff should be a top priority. But a new GM who can build stronger relationships with our players could change culture.

I think things could change quickly if a new GM comes in and Bruce is fired. It’s our most important decision Snyder makes this year and he needs to do it now.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

What if firing Allen was the key to bringing Trent back? That would be amazing.

I agree, obviously we are getting ready to move on from Gruden. I will be livid if they fire Gruden but Dan keeps Allen around. At the minimum he should be completely removed from football ops. Literally unbelievable that Bruce's low .400 record over a 10 year span hasn't got him kicked out yet.

While we're on the subject I know this is a Chris Russell/Grant Paulsen report but with what we know about Dan it makes sense to me that he and Bruce would hate the success the Caps/Nats have had.

[url]https://thefandc.radio.com/redskins-angry-about-capitals-success[/url]

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

I believe and I've heard that Kyle Smith is the Sean McVeigh of FO personnel. I wouldn't mind seeing him become the new GM.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Chico - all good points, I think you covered everything. I want Bruce and the coaching staff fired. But that creates its own problems:

1. Who then picks GM, Pres of Oper and HC?

2. Who does Snyder hire first? I imagine he will need to hire a GM or Pres first so they can lead the HC search.

But who for GM? How will Dan Snyder find his next GM if he is all by himself? I think Snyder likes staying in-house so would it be:

Pres - Eric Shaeffer

GM - Kyle Smith

Somehow promote Alex Santos so he stays happy about not being GM.

Doug Williams? I like Doug but I dont think he lives and breathes college players and scouting like Kyle Smith does. Kyle Smith will most likely be poached from us if he dont promote and protect him.

Does Smith and Scheaffer have the league petigree to go out and get a respected HC? or are they still to young and unknown outside of DC?

^^ I think Id actually be okay with this but do Schaeffer and Smith have the stones to not be a Snyder lackey? While giving Snyder the impression they are lackeys. Can Doug be Snyder's buddy to replace Bruce as Snyder's buddy bc Snyder needs a buddy.

3. How do we keep Cavanaugh and OConnell? Do we promote OConnell to HC and Cavanaugh to OC? But then the new HC gets no say on the offensive side of coaching.

Perhaps if we made a Todd Bowles type our HC, he wouldnt mind punting on the OC control as much?

-------------------------

Once we destroy everything .. what step 1 of the rebuild process?

Itd be great if we had a seasoned somewhat older guy to hold Snyder's hand through the process and use his connections but who? Doug Williams perhaps?

[url]https://www.redskins.com/team/coaches-roster/[/url]

[url]https://www.redskins.com/team/front-office-roster/[/url]

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

While Kyle Smith is in the discussion for sure...I wouldn’t limit the scope of an honest search for GM. GM picks the new coach.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1231846]While Kyle Smith is in the discussion for sure...I wouldn’t limit the scope of an honest search for GM. GM picks the new coach.[/quote]

Fuck Smith too, clean house. I mean from EVERYONE , including Doug

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Kyle Smith man, I hear nothing but good things about him and it kinda worries me, like what if he's also being poisoned just by working in this environment?

You know how people running for Congress say they're going to change the game and do things different, then when they get in they realize you either play by Congress rules or you become an ineffective politician who can't get shit done and is a one-term politician? I fear that with Kyle Smith. I fear Kyle Smith is going to be poisoned by working under Bruce Allen. There is plenty of evidence going back years that people don't like working for or with Bruce Allen. Who was voted #1 least trustworthy FO exec to work with by agents? Bruce Allen. Mike Lombardi stamped his name on how bad it is working with Allen. Nobody has ever come to Bruce Allen's defense and said he is a smart football-minded guy who knows what he's doing and was scapegoated in Tampa Bay/Oakland.

With all that being said Kyle Smith could be the guy for all we know, but I'm torn between him and bringing in someone who hasn't been exposed to this shitty culture. A totally fresh start as they say. I'm also not sold Dan Snyder is willing to do such a thing. Bruce Allen's probably trying to sell him that we're a Gruden replacement and a couple players away from being contenders type thing.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

If there are multiple GM openings at seasons end, I would be worried Kyle Smith might be poached.


edit - If we dont go in-house with Smith ... then who? From what Ive heard about Smith, I am comfortable with him being the GM making player/draft decisions but Im not sure he has enough NFL pedigree and connections to land a quality HC etc.

If we fire everybody .. there is literally no one to help Snyder pick the GM.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=mooby;1231855]Kyle Smith man, I hear nothing but good things about him and it kinda worries me, like what if he's also being poisoned just by working in this environment?

You know how people running for Congress say they're going to change the game and do things different, then when they get in they realize you either play by Congress rules or you become an ineffective politician who can't get shit done and is a one-term politician? I fear that with Kyle Smith. I fear Kyle Smith is going to be poisoned by working under Bruce Allen. There is plenty of evidence going back years that people don't like working for or with Bruce Allen. Who was voted #1 least trustworthy FO exec to work with by agents? Bruce Allen. Mike Lombardi stamped his name on how bad it is working with Allen. Nobody has ever come to Bruce Allen's defense and said he is a smart football-minded guy who knows what he's doing and was scapegoated in Tampa Bay/Oakland.

With all that being said Kyle Smith could be the guy for all we know, but I'm torn between him and bringing in someone who hasn't been exposed to this shitty culture. A totally fresh start as they say. I'm also not sold Dan Snyder is willing to do such a thing. Bruce Allen's probably trying to sell him that we're a Gruden replacement and a couple players away from being contenders type thing.[/quote]

Before we get too carried away about the idea of the this org poisoning him, you do know who Kyle's Dad is right? AJ wasn't exactly known for his people skills. Hopefully Kyle isn't cut from that same mold.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Smith has been in scouting since 2011 right? So he's a talent evaluator, you can argue that he's been average at best from the draft pick standpoint since hes been in that role.

Let his ass go too

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1231874]Smith has been in scouting since 2011 right? So he's a talent evaluator, you can argue that he's been average at best from the draft pick standpoint since hes been in that role.

Let his ass go too[/quote]

I'd chill on that, he's only in his 2nd year of being the director of college personnel. Prior to that he probably had little say in who was drafted.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1231876]I'd chill on that, he's only in his 2nd year of being the director of college personnel. Prior to that he probably had little say in who was drafted.[/QUOTE]Still mad, fire his ass too

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

I like this thread... to bad the folks in charge don’t seem to get it..either they are stupid or they got some master plan..hmmmm .. I say burn it down get advice from a real football guy and start from scratch one hire at a time starting with whoever is going to run the football side of things.. you can’t hire coach first then bring in GM.. we have the players but that’s all we got ..there is enough talent that a bad year would be 8-8 our current system is costing us 4 wins a year minimum..

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Kevin Sheehan brought up something interesting today, Peyton Manning is reportedly interested in getting into a ownership/GM role. Give him a minority ownership stake and the GM role. Fuck it, why the hell not??

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=SunnySide;1231857]

If we fire everybody .. there is literally no one to help Snyder pick the GM.[/quote]

There is of course his buddy who sits next to him on Sundays....... Joe Gibbs.

It seemed like Dan wanted to clean house last off season and I think we were all amazed that not a single person was fired. It must have been Bruce who persuaded him not to do it, so I don't think Dan will be very happy to be in this position again so early in the season and looking at a rebuild.

Sometimes clearing everybody out is a good thing, even the talented guys....... when the culture is so toxic sometimes it is the only way to reset things otherwise the players see the same coaches and the same FO people and assume that nothing is changing.

Do you all remember how happy we all were when Vinny was fired and every one thought it would be great to have a football guy in charge at last......

Dan isn't going to get a respected football guy to come within a million miles of Fedex, maybe Joe can. We are more than likely just going to have to cross our fingers that Kyle Smith hasn't been fatally poisoned by Bruce. I understand that Schaeffer (sp?) has a very good reputation though, correct me if I am wrong.

It does amaze me that despite the dysfunction that so many good young coaches and FO people seem to come out of Washington

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Joe would be able to recognize good leadership skills no doubt but would he recognize the other skills necessary for successful GM candidates?

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=MTK;1231872]Before we get too carried away about the idea of the this org poisoning him, you do know who Kyle's Dad is right? AJ wasn't exactly known for his people skills. Hopefully Kyle isn't cut from that same mold.[/quote]

I totally forgot about that angle, AJ Smith was one of the worst things to happen to the Chargers, talent evaluation skills aside.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=MTK;1231881]Kevin Sheehan brought up something interesting today, Peyton Manning is reportedly interested in getting into a ownership/GM role. Give him a minority ownership stake and the GM role. Fuck it, why the hell not??[/quote]

No thanks. It's something Snyder would do to get the fans excited. Total PR move IMO.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1231893]No thanks. It's something Snyder would do to get the fans excited. Total PR move IMO.[/QUOTE]I think we could use good PR and Manning knows football inside and out so I would not hate it entirely, but what is really important who Snyder hires as his new handler. If its a Vinny or BA clone then we will be right back in fan hell. If he allows a winning culture guy to come in and set up shop then maybe we have hope.

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Bruce is bad for business. No one w/ any credibility would ever come here if he's here.

Dan needs to walk into Redskin Park the day after the season and fire everyone. Bruce, Doug, Smith, Santos, Jay and his entire staff, all gone. It hasn't worked with this group. They've had plenty of time to get it right.

Lombardi is spot on, it's a culture thing with the Redskins and it needs to be rebuilt from the top down. Get a GM in here who's detail oriented and hire a coach who thinks like he does.

I'd make a call to Dabo cause he has turned Clemson around and he did it by changing the culture. I'd make a call to Greg Williams cause he makes players accountable. He can get more out of this underachieving defense. I'd call Eric Beinemy as well. The guy is ready to be a HC and can bring creativity to the offense.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

First of all, outstanding thread and I appreciate the thoughtfulness.

To me, whether I can continue being a fan (after 46 years) boils down to whether Allen is gone either this season or as soon as it is over. If not, it tells me that Snyder is either too unwise or too stubborn to change, and the team will continue the shit show of the last many years indefinitely. I see no prospect of change - and change is so sorely needed. I count myself in with a ton of fans who are fatigued to the point of breaking. Love the team and many of the players, but the crotch kicking experience of being a Skins fan is old.


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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

The key thing with GM position, it MUST work in unison with the new coach. We need everyone on the same page for once.

Not Bruce trading for MCNabb when Shanny didn’t want McNabb. Not Bruce trading and extending Alex Smith, when it was a poor fit for Gruden’s scheme. This shit pisses me off so fucking much.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1231900]The key thing with GM position, it MUST work in unison with the new coach. We need everyone on the same page for once.

Not Bruce trading for MCNabb when Shanny didn’t want McNabb. Not Bruce trading and extending Alex Smith, when it was a poor fit for Gruden’s scheme. This shit pisses me off so fucking much.[/quote]

Or the scouts and your head coach not wanting to draft Haskins at 15, but had no choice cause the owner and his bitch said too bad.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1231901]Or the scouts and your head coach not wanting to draft Haskins at 15, but had no choice cause the owner and his bitch said too bad.[/quote]

I would hope that isn't the case, but if there's any consolation it's that the head coach's opinion (barring the unlikeliest of turnarounds) probably won't be relevant after this year.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1231900]The key thing with GM position, it MUST work in unison with the new coach. We need everyone on the same page for once.



Not Bruce trading for MCNabb when Shanny didn’t want McNabb. Not Bruce trading and extending Alex Smith, when it was a poor fit for Gruden’s scheme. This shit pisses me off so fucking much.[/QUOTE]You nailed the single biggest organizational problem.

Also, Bruce forcing Callahan as the run game coordinator on the offense.

Totally agree

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

You fire Bruce and Jay, hire a real GM, let that GM pick his HC. It's not fucking rocket science or reinventing the wheel. We just have a loser for an owner.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

I've never understood the concept of hiring all of the assistance coaches and coordinators and then hiring a head coach. In every other franchise, the head coach always picks his coaching staff. Never understood why Bruce has done it like that - but it doesn't work.

Allen had better be gone by the end of this season.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=metalskins;1231913]I've never understood the concept of hiring all of the assistance coaches and coordinators and then hiring a head coach. In every other franchise, the head coach always picks his coaching staff. Never understood why Bruce has done it like that - but it doesn't work.

Allen had better be gone by the end of this season.[/quote]

It's pretty easy to understand, Bruce is a lunatic. I want to believe Gruden got to pick his own coaches but we can't forget Zorn was originally hired to be offensive coordinator before a HC was hired, and then after we threw the shit fit about Hassel he was promoted to HC.

If Gruden wasn't allowed to create his own hierarchy with his own hand picked assistants he was doomed from the start.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=metalskins;1231913]I've never understood the concept of hiring all of the assistance coaches and coordinators and then hiring a head coach. In every other franchise, the head coach always picks his coaching staff. Never understood why Bruce has done it like that - but it doesn't work.

Allen had better be gone by the end of this season.[/quote]

I really think we have no reason to believe that Allen will be fired, other than wanting that as fans. People in the media and those "in the know" has said over and over again that Bruce is here as long as he wants to be. Our best case scenario is that Allen retires on his own soon. I do agree, Bruce has to go, but to think that Snyder fires him, i believe is very misguided thinking.

I think what is the most likely scenario, is that Dan and Bruce fire Jay and all of his assistants, and then reload their way, picking all of the staff and coordinators, and THEN, picking their head coach.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=mooby;1231914]It's pretty easy to understand, Bruce is a lunatic. I want to believe Gruden got to pick his own coaches but we can't forget Zorn was originally hired to be offensive coordinator before a HC was hired, and then after we threw the shit fit about Hassel he was promoted to HC.

If Gruden wasn't allowed to create his own hierarchy with his own hand picked assistants he was doomed from the start.[/quote]

Regardless BA goes out of his way to undermine the coaches. He did it with Shanahan and he is doing it with Jay to scapegoat him. We can fire Jay and that will fix our Jay problem but it doesn’t fix the problem with the team.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1231914]It's pretty easy to understand, Bruce is a lunatic. I want to believe Gruden got to pick his own coaches but we can't forget Zorn was originally hired to be offensive coordinator before a HC was hired, and then after we threw the shit fit about Hassel he was promoted to HC.



If Gruden wasn't allowed to create his own hierarchy with his own hand picked assistants he was doomed from the start.[/QUOTE]It has never been reported by a "journalist" that the Callahan hire was an arranged marriage with Jay.

But, Finlay, Sheehan, and Phillips from the Richmond times dispatch have talked about it on podcasts since Callahan's hire.

And it's a total Bruce move. Dallas has a good run game, let's hire yet another Dallas Cowboy, whether he fits here or not.

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1231921]Regardless BA goes out of his way to undermine the coaches. He did it with Shanahan and he is doing it with Jay to scapegoat him. We can fire Jay and that will fix our Jay problem but it doesn’t fix the problem with the team.[/QUOTE]I don't think Jay is a good coach. But I think he would have had way more success than he has had here, with another competent organization.

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Agree. we have all seen his poor play calling and practices to know he is not a good coach

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1231923]I don't think Jay is a good coach. But I think he would have had way more success than he has had here, with another competent organization.

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He isn't head coaching material at the NFL level. For one thing he is way too soft, his team lacks discipline on and off the field.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

You guys are in Fantasy Land if you think Bruce Allen is going anywhere. I think Bruce must be perfect for what Snyder wants or he would already be gone.

Some business owners thrive on sitting above the fray and enjoying watching their underlings fight it out. If you're untouchable, constant turmoil, political infighting, back-stabbing, lies, and betrayals can make for an amusing show. I suspect that Snyder get off on that stuff - not to mention all the flattery and boot-licking that gos along with it. And who is better at all that nonsense than Allen? Naw, he stays.

Bruce Allen is like the gladiator who kills so many opponents that he is eventually awarded his freedom by the emperor.

Also, no matter if the team wins or not or is well-managed or not the Franchise is still worth billions to Snyder if he decides to sell it to another social climber who is looking to join the business elite of NFL owners. He can't screw it up! He's golden, so why should he care about your silly-ass problems?

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

Yeah, I don’t know...I think Bruce firing is def on the table. I think it’s not really the performance of team, but the decline in the dc market and apathy he sees in the fans...I think this is most concerning thing to Dan.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1231921]Regardless BA goes out of his way to undermine the coaches. He did it with Shanahan and he is doing it with Jay to scapegoat him. We can fire Jay and that will fix our Jay problem but it doesn’t fix the problem with the team.[/QUOTE]And this is what Vinny did too which is why even changing BA isn't much of a chance to see success. The person hiring the next Bruce or Vinny will still look for the same criteria.

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1231854]Fuck Smith too, clean house. I mean from EVERYONE , including Doug[/quote]

That’s a Vinny move. Smith has provided some solid players the last 2 years he’s been in charge. It would be very stupid to get rid off the solid bright spot of this team.

Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1231943]That’s a Vinny move. Smith has provided some solid players the last 2 years he’s been in charge. It would be very stupid to get rid off the solid bright spot of this team.[/QUOTE]Back to Matty's comment though, doesnt it seem like the last two to three years have also had more player drama? I mean not too lomg ago, with BA in charge, we regularly re-signed our players, so aomething has changed and maybe it is something with Kyle, but thats just huge speculation.

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Re: Why moving on from Bruce Allen this year is pivotal to the future of the franchise.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1231945]Back to Matty's comment though, doesnt it seem like the last two to three years have also had more player drama? I mean not too lomg ago, with BA in charge, we regularly re-signed our players, so aomething has changed and maybe it is something with Kyle, but thats just huge speculation.

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Kyle is in charge of getting the talent, the drama comes from BA and Danny.