Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

[b]By [/b][url="http://www.sportsline.com/columns/writers/judge"][b][color=#000099]Clark Judge[/color][/b][/url]
[b]CBS SportsLine.com Senior Writer[/b]

[indent]7. Will Joe Gibbs get it turned around in Washington?

No, and, trust me, it hurts to say it. The classy Gibbs was a great coach who pulled the most out of his clubs in the 1980s. But that was two decades ago, and Gibbs last year seemed out of step with the times. I know, the Redskins changed their offense and blocking schemes, but does anyone really believe this team is better with Santana Moss instead of Laveranues Coles? Without Fred Smoot? Without Antonio Pierce? Plus, what's the deal with Sean Taylor? Then there's this: If the organization doesn't believe it can win with Patrick Ramsey -- as the draft of first-rounder Jason Campbell suggests -- why should we? The problem with Washington is that there hasn't been consistency with the players or the coaching staff since Dan Snyder took over, and that's a recipe for disaster. Fasten your


[/indent]This is what kills me, Smoot and Pierce have one good year each and all of a sudden they are the backbone to this team and losing them will be one of the main reasons why joe gibbs WILL NOT "turn it around" in D.C. Did he forget we were 6-10? We had other issues, and they were not entirely with personel.


Also, he acts like losing Coles was some blow to the offense? Weak, very weak.

Was Gibbs "out of step with the times" last year. At times, yes. Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt to turn it around? Hmmmm, I wonder.

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Yeah, I'm so sick of hearing about the departure of Smoot and Peirce killing our team. I can't beleive it. These idiots are just quoting other idiots. I have yet to hear anything original in why the Skins won't succeed this coming year. It is always 1. Smoot and Peirce leaving 2. Gibbs doesn't trust Ramsey, and 3. Moss isn't as good as Coles. Fine, have your opinion. Problem is, this isn't this guys opionion. I don't know who was the first jackass writer to type this dribble down, but it is the same article every freaking time. It's almost bordering on comical. In all seriousness, I've seen this article at least a dozen times, with the wording slightly different.

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Here's someone on [URL=http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_teamarticle/13/20050616/for_gibbs_skins_its_do_or_die_in_2005/]our[/URL] side

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Smoot played pretty well for his entire career. Not just one good season. Walt Harris at starting CB scares me a bit, and with the delays to Rogers, I think GWs system could be hurting. CBs are so important in his system, if Walt doesn't really step up our defense could be in trouble.

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What scares you about Walt Harris starting?

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Thats was a fair and refreshing artice, Thnks TAFKAS

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Keep underestimating us. Fine with me. See us as an easy week, look ahead to the next "big" game, go ahead. Everybody knows that Drew Bledsoe's Dallas cowroids are the real rising power in the division. :Smoker:

(I like that article, TAFKAS--a refreshing change.)

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Smoot did play well for us while he was here, but I dont understand how these analists keep talking about Perice like he was our 1st round draft choice that we just lost. Last time I checked wasnt he a undrafted free agent that we got lucky on? Yes Perice was awesome for us last season and I wished that he would have stayed, but just the fact that he left us for bigger money kinda spells out that even he knew that the system made him what he is and figured that it is time for him to get paid...

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let him go. im tired of this negativity. seven or eight games into the season, critics will be talking about a turnaround, similar to the nats in the mlb, and the chargers in the nfl. oh and btw, tafkas, that article made me happy. that's hard to do nowadays considering all the bull that comes our way.

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What he doesn't understand is Williams made Smoot and Pierce what they have become, Rogers is more talented than Smoot, and I think Harris is as good as Smoot, anytime he was in last year he was all over his reciever, as far as MLB we have more depth now than we did last season before Pierce stepped up.

His point about Ramsey is right on though, picking Campbell and giving up everything we gave up for him just screams disgust and distain for what Gibbs really thinks of Ramsey.

All that aside Gibbs is the key, will he catch up to today's NFL, or is he just really washed up?

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[QUOTE=offiss]What he doesn't understand is Williams made Smoot and Pierce what they have become, Rogers is more talented than Smoot, and I think Harris is as good as Smoot, anytime he was in last year he was all over his reciever, as far as MLB we have more depth now than we did last season before Pierce stepped up.

His point about Ramsey is right on though, picking Campbell and giving up everything we gave up for him just screams disgust and distain for what Gibbs really thinks of Ramsey.

All that aside Gibbs is the key, will he catch up to today's NFL, or is he just really washed up?[/QUOTE]
I think that Smoot was pretty good before Williams came here, so I would have to disagree with you on that, but I do agree that Williams did jump start Pierce's career....

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[QUOTE=Redskins8588]I think that Smoot was pretty good before Williams came here, so I would have to disagree with you on that, but I do agree that Williams did jump start Pierce's career....[/QUOTE]


The point is he went from a decent CB to an elite type CB in 1 season, at least in other team's eye's.

People want to judge Smoot by what he did under Williams, and then judge others before they have a chance to play under Williams, Harris was a good CB before his injury, he should be fully healed which by his own admission he wasen't a 100% last season, couple that with Williams and we will all be saying Smoot who, and in case people forget, the backup plan is more talented than either 1, and that's Rogers.

I have no doubt that Williams will make a bonified MLB out of the talent he has to work with, kind of like denver and RB's.

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well profootball weekly also gives us no love----Says we had "nightmare offseason"
[url]http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Columns/2005/edholm070605.htm[/url]
The Redskins are on the verge of capping one of the roughest offseasons in recent memory. Of course, in retrospect, most Redskins offseasons are bad; they just usually look good as they are happening. Maybe change is good, but in this case, most people agreed that the team suffered some key losses and was unable to get much immediate help. And trumping everything has been the Sean Taylor saga, which will continue to haunt the club through the season.

Now first-round pick CB Carlos Rogers was discovered to have a stress fracture in his right foot and a bone bruise in his right ankle — injuries that will force the Redskins’ top pick to miss the start of camp. The injury likely will set him back from challenging for a starting spot, meaning Walt Harris and Artrell Hawkins are the team’s Nos. 2 and 3 corners for now.

With Taylor’s status up in the air and Rogers out of the picture for the start of camp, a secondary that was an underrated and vital piece of the team’s defensive success last season will be knocked down a peg or two. And this is on a unit that also lost CB Fred Smoot and MLB Antonio Pierce and failed to acquire another defensive lineman. One Redskins defensive coach swears this offseason that Phillip Daniels is going to have a great year, but that’s far from a certainty, seeing as how he missed 11 games last season and hasn’t had more than 5½ sacks in a season since 2001.
[later in the article]
Good to see that all 255 rookie draft picks made it to the mandatory Rookie Symposium this offseason. Though it’s not a harbinger of future failure, past absentees include Ryan Leaf and Sean Taylor.

Does anyone besides me think that Chad Morton is not only going to make the Patriots' roster but also run back at least one kickoff/punt for a touchdown? Two years ago he was the most coveted free-agent returner in the league before he got "Redskinned" (what happens to good players when they go to Washington).

I’ll give the Redskins some credit. I think hanging on to Rod Gardner, for now, might be smart. There’s interest in him from a few teams, and any club that loses a starting receiver at the start of camp might want to place a call to Joe Gibbs.

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I think that all the media take a certain spin on the team. Either they will be good and this is the year, or we are set up to give denver the number 3 draft pick next year. I think it is in the middle, not that we can't be horrible or great next year with 4 wins or 12 wins, our team has problems but they are not destroying. The loss of morton is nothing and i hope he does well but i won't feel bad for releasing him even if he pulls off 2 touchdowns returning next year. Pierce, i won't miss his physical attributes(we got mccune), i will miss his brain that set up the line and got everyone ready. Smoot is what i am most worried about, i liked smoot more than bailey when they were both here, not because smoot was better, it was just his attitude and love for the team. He will be replaced by arris and harris will do fine. Our backfield isn't destroyed as some reports make it seem, we have springs, taylor, bowen, and harris/rodgers. that is a damn good backfield, and few teams have better.

Offensively, i know we got better, we got 2 out of the top 3 top yards per average recievers with over 40 catches. That is not an accident, we got the speed needed to help the passing game and even if we complete less we will have larger completions w/o coles. This will help portis in running and cooley in catching the shorter passes. It is looking good.

Our season lays in the hands of our QB and if he fails this year we will fail, things looked up toward the end of the season(Ramsey was doing well in the last 5 games he had 3 games w/ over a 100 passer rating, high 139). I really don't know how he will do. If it is good i know anything can happen, everything else on our team is above average

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[QUOTE=offiss]His point about Ramsey is right on though, picking Campbell and giving up everything we gave up for him just screams disgust and distain for what Gibbs really thinks of Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

I just don't agree with this at all.

When Gibbs had Joe Theismann in hand, he acquired Jay Schroeder. When he had Jay Schroeder in hand, he acquired Doug Williams. When he had Doug Williams in hand, he acquired Mark Rypien.

Gibbs has always felt the need to have two quality quarterbacks on the roster. He tried to do that last year by bringing Brunell in to join Ramsey. If anything, the Campbell draft pick is an indictment of Mark Brunell; I think Gibbs now realizes that Brunell is a bum (despite what he says publicly).

I think Gibbs just saw something special in Campbell and decided to go get him. Gibbs likes to have two good QBs, and he's just going to play the best one. Simple as that.

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So Gibbs has disgust and distain for Ramsey?

Meanwhile he's repeatedly said, since very early in the offseason, that Patrick is his starter.

Interesting.

I guess Gibbs is just blowing smoke up our asses.

Like Schneed10 said, Gibbs has always had 2 starting quality QBs on his rosters, Gibbs hasn't changed his tune at all in that regard. So why are people spinning it as he somehow hates Ramsey?

Ridiculous.

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Very true. Brunell was SUPPOSED to be the second quality quarterback. I'd be afraid to have had Hasselbeck leading us if a starter was injured.

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[quote]So Gibbs has disgust and distain for Ramsey?

Meanwhile he's repeatedly said, since very early in the offseason, that Patrick is his starter.

Interesting.

I guess Gibbs is just blowing smoke up our asses.

Like Schneed10 said, Gibbs has always had 2 starting quality QBs on his rosters, Gibbs hasn't changed his tune at all in that regard. So why are people spinning it as he somehow hates Ramsey?

Ridiculous.[/quote]

I think Gibbs' true feelings about Ramsey will come out if he struggles like Brunell. Does he get the 8 week grace period or a two week one. Hopefully we won't find out either way!

Smoot has been a quality CB his entire career. Imagine that, putting lots of pressure on the QB and forcing them to make bad throws made Smoot look better. That's the same for every defense. However, he was making big plays when he didn't have any time. Also, could it be, that Smoot simply got better skill wise? He's still fairly young in the league and learning. Smoot was a great Redskin and because the Redskins didn't want to give him near the money MN would, I can understand him leaving. Same with Pierce - when you go that many years with damn near league minimum I understand going for more money. It's not like they had huge contracts they wanted to redo. Before I hear that crap that the Redskins offer was almost the same as MNs. MNs was front loaded to where he'd actually see some of the salary, along with a slightly higher SB than the skins offered. Meaning he sees a lot more of that.

Why do we bash players that we consistantly stick up for when they leave, especially when they just leave on normal terms. It's the new NFL. This isn't like Gibbs first era where you can stockpile talent and have them wait. Or give players what they want. It's the salary cap -- and we all know the game wouldn't be as exciting without it.

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[QUOTE=Daseal]I think Gibbs' true feelings about Ramsey will come out if he struggles like Brunell. Does he get the 8 week grace period or a two week one. Hopefully we won't find out either way![/QUOTE]

I can't see Gibbs keeping Ramsey on that short of a leash. 2 weeks isn't a fair shot for anyone.

He has always been very loyal to his starting QB, almost to a fault... as we saw last year.

Ramsey will get a very fair shot, I have no doubt.

If Gibbs really didn't like Ramsey, why would he keep him around and make him the starter? If anyone can make sense of that please let me know.

He could have easily said there will be an open competition for the job in camp to let Brunell back into the running. But he didn't, so what does that say for how he feels about Ramsey? It tells me he thinks he's the best guy for the job right now.

The Campbell pick shows me Gibbs has one eye on the future. There's no guarantee we'll be able to fit Ramsey under our cap especially if he has a big year and wants a big payday. Or what if he simply wants to play elsewhere no matter what the team offers him?

I guess it's just easier to take the view that Gibbs somehow hates Ramsey and just has it in for him, so that's why he took Campbell. But if you step back and look at the big picture, I think it's easy to see that Gibbs is following the same MO he always has, he likes quality depth at QB. Simple as that.

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[QUOTE=Daseal]
Smoot has been a quality CB his entire career. Imagine that, putting lots of pressure on the QB and forcing them to make bad throws made Smoot look better. That's the same for every defense. However, he was making big plays when he didn't have any time. Also, could it be, that Smoot simply got better skill wise? He's still fairly young in the league and learning. Smoot was a great Redskin and because the Redskins didn't want to give him near the money MN would, I can understand him leaving. Same with Pierce - when you go that many years with damn near league minimum I understand going for more money. It's not like they had huge contracts they wanted to redo. Before I hear that crap that the Redskins offer was almost the same as MNs. MNs was front loaded to where he'd actually see some of the salary, along with a slightly higher SB than the skins offered. Meaning he sees a lot more of that.

Why do we bash players that we consistantly stick up for when they leave, especially when they just leave on normal terms. It's the new NFL. This isn't like Gibbs first era where you can stockpile talent and have them wait. Or give players what they want. It's the salary cap -- and we all know the game wouldn't be as exciting without it.[/QUOTE]

I am with you when you say Smoot was good and he had a lot of skill. I don't think Gregg Williams was the only reason Smoot was so good last year. If anything, Smoot and Springs allowed Williams to run the defense he wanted to. Without good corners, Williams can't operate his defense the way he wants. He is a great mind, but he does need some tools to work with, and Smoot & Springs were the most important tools in his toolbox last year.

That said, I honestly don't see much of a dropoff from Smoot to Walt Harris. I've been through this argument before, but just to reiterate, Walt was a former first round pick. He was a starter for many years. The only reason he wasn't a starter recently was because he busted up his knee and we got him for cheap. Now his knee is totally healthy as he proved last year, and he is quite capable of covering some top receivers. I don't think the drop from Smoot to Harris is that significant.

I am concerned about Rogers though, because you need more than two good CBs. While I'm totally confident in Springs and Harris, I'd feel better if Rogers were healthy enough to get a full training camp under his belt so he can fit into the nickel role. I like Garnell Wilds, he did nicely against Randy Moss last year. But honestly, it's a leap of faith to assume he can handle a nickel role on a consistent basis. Of course, Antonio Pierce made that leap last year, so I won't rule anything out. But I'd just feel better with Rogers in better health.

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Hindsight just hasn't been kind to my deep worship of Joe Gibbs. To me, the biggest factor in our weak season last year was his apparent worship of Mark Brunell. What does Gibbs think he sees, and why does he always put obstacles in front of Ramsey?

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What obstacles?

Ramsey is the unquestioned starter going into camp.

What more needs to be said?

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[QUOTE=Schneed10]I am with you when you say Smoot was good and he had a lot of skill. I don't think Gregg Williams was the only reason Smoot was so good last year. If anything, Smoot and Springs allowed Williams to run the defense he wanted to. Without good corners, Williams can't operate his defense the way he wants. He is a great mind, but he does need some tools to work with, and Smoot & Springs were the most important tools in his toolbox last year.

That said, I honestly don't see much of a dropoff from Smoot to Walt Harris. I've been through this argument before, but just to reiterate, Walt was a former first round pick. He was a starter for many years. The only reason he wasn't a starter recently was because he busted up his knee and we got him for cheap. Now his knee is totally healthy as he proved last year, and he is quite capable of covering some top receivers. I don't think the drop from Smoot to Harris is that significant.

I am concerned about Rogers though, because you need more than two good CBs. While I'm totally confident in Springs and Harris, I'd feel better if Rogers were healthy enough to get a full training camp under his belt so he can fit into the nickel role. I like Garnell Wilds, he did nicely against Randy Moss last year. But honestly, it's a leap of faith to assume he can handle a nickel role on a consistent basis. Of course, Antonio Pierce made that leap last year, so I won't rule anything out. But I'd just feel better with Rogers in better health.[/QUOTE]

Nice post, as usual.

Illdefined, as far as putting obstacles in front of Ramsey. It's possible that he felt he was doing Ramsey a favor by not throwing him out there to the wolves while Gibbs got adjusted to the new NFL. I think maybe he felt he'd rather have Brunell out there on the field early on if for no other reason than Brunell would have a better handle on things going on on the field.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Nice post, as usual.

Illdefined, as far as putting obstacles in front of Ramsey. It's possible that he felt he was doing Ramsey a favor by not throwing him out there to the wolves while Gibbs got adjusted to the new NFL. I think maybe he felt he'd rather have Brunell out there on the field early on if for no other reason than Brunell would have a better handle on things going on on the field.[/QUOTE]

Good point. And call me crazy, but I think good old Joe meant what he said last year going into training camp; the QB position was an open competition. Both Ramsey and Brunell looked brutal in the preseason last year, but Brunell looked a little less brutal, so he played.

Ramsey was able to learn the offense in practice while Brunell stunk up the joint last year, and Ramsey came in and showed he was solid.

I think that's all Gibbs needed to see. So Matty's right, when he says Ramsey is the starter, he means it, because he saw him perform admirably in his starts last year (take out the relief performance against the Giants, and Ramsey would have had a 85 QB rating). Campbell was picked for developmental purposes only; his selection was not an indictment of Ramsey's abilities. Old Joe is just getting himself a solid backup because he knows he needs to clear Brunell's bloated salary off the books as soon as it's beneficial under the cap regulations.

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But that's not to say Campbell will be a career backup. There may come a day when we can't afford to keep Patrick. Or maybe Campbell will prove he deserves to start down the line. But for now, Ramsey is the guy, and Gibbs means it.

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I can maybe understand not wanting to put Ramsey on the line as Gibbs adjusted to the new NFL, but that didn't justify all the money Brunell got, or, way more importantly, all the chances Gibbs kept giving Brunell after it was plain to see he was costing us every game.

Ramsey isn't exactly a rookie with no starts, I think it was a general consensus that Ramsey could have been put in earlier in the season and won some more games. Gibbs bet the farm on Brunell and lost.

While Ramsey is finally getting his chance from the beginning, Gibbs already has made another big gesture with somebody to eventually replace him in this year's draft. I know it's been said ad nauseum, but most agree we had way more pressing (defensive) needs. The pattern of Gibb's QB decisions just can't inspire too much confidence in the boy, that's all i'm saying.

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[QUOTE=Schneed10]Campbell was picked for developmental purposes only; his selection was not an indictment of Ramsey's abilities. Old Joe is just getting himself a solid backup because he knows he needs to clear Brunell's bloated salary off the books as soon as it's beneficial under the cap regulations.[/QUOTE]

I hope that take is right; Hasslebeck seemed like a solid backup though and not taking the chance to shore up a depeleted defense for a future backup QB doesn't seem very pragmatic. I'm sure Ramsey and maybe even coach Williams was a bit surprised.

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[QUOTE=illdefined][QUOTE=Schneed10]Campbell was picked for developmental purposes only; his selection was not an indictment of Ramsey's abilities. Old Joe is just getting himself a solid backup because he knows he needs to clear Brunell's bloated salary off the books as soon as it's beneficial under the cap regulations.[/QUOTE]

I hope that take is right; Hasslebeck seemed like a solid backup though and not taking the chance to shore up a depeleted defense for a future backup QB doesn't seem very pragmatic. I'm sure Ramsey and maybe even coach Williams was a bit surprised.[/QUOTE]

I don't know that it's entirely to acquire a "solid backup". If Ramsey falters this season, there isn't a QB on the roster to run the team in 2006. Brunell will have taken his own life (maybe - it [u]could[/u] happen), and bringing in a free agent to start will put us in the position of teaching on the fly - just like last year. This way, Coach Gibbs gets either (a) a credible backup relatively cheaply - bottom of the first round money isn't that much, or (b) a groomed "rookie" with a year of studying the playbook and practicing with the pros.

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[QUOTE=BrudLee]I don't know that it's entirely to acquire a "solid backup". If Ramsey falters this season, there isn't a QB on the roster to run the team in 2006. Brunell will have taken his own life (maybe - it [u]could[/u] happen), and bringing in a free agent to start will put us in the position of teaching on the fly - just like last year. This way, Coach Gibbs gets either (a) a credible backup relatively cheaply - bottom of the first round money isn't that much, or (b) a groomed "rookie" with a year of studying the playbook and practicing with the pros.[/QUOTE]

that makes sense, and sorry i missed the discussion when it happened, but what was wrong with Hasslebeck, who'd been here through all of it?

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[QUOTE=Schneed10]I just don't agree with this at all.

When Gibbs had Joe Theismann in hand, he acquired Jay Schroeder. When he had Jay Schroeder in hand, he acquired Doug Williams. When he had Doug Williams in hand, he acquired Mark Rypien.

Gibbs has always felt the need to have two quality quarterbacks on the roster. He tried to do that last year by bringing Brunell in to join Ramsey. If anything, the Campbell draft pick is an indictment of Mark Brunell; I think Gibbs now realizes that Brunell is a bum (despite what he says publicly).

I think Gibbs just saw something special in Campbell and decided to go get him. Gibbs likes to have two good QBs, and he's just going to play the best one. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]


Your missing the point, and the point is none of those players were drafted higher than the 3rd rd, they were projects that Beathard took a chance on that they could be developed, a far cry from what we gave up to get Campbell, you also can't compare Gibbs first tenure to today's NFL we now have a salary cap to contend with, you do not give up what we gave up for a first rd QB to make him a project, period!

Basically if Gibbs had any confidence in Ramsey there is no way we take Campbell where we did, what is the point? To have 2 bonified starters on our roster to watch Campbell just sit and eat up our salary cap? Tell me what's the plan for Campbell if Gibbs believes in Ramsey? I would like to know the thinking behind that one? As I said from day 1 the Campbell pick was just plain stupid no matter how you look at it.

If Gibbs believes in Ramsey than all he should have been looking for is a #2 backup to groom, instead we now have neither, Campbell is 3 season's away, and Brunell another Gibbs move well we all saw how that panned out.

My question is this, what happens if Ramsey goes down this season? Does anyone think Campbell can step in? Don't make me laugh at that one, so I guess we are 1 hit away from Brunell and a high 1st rd draft pick next year, oh wait we don't have one, WONDERFUL!

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[QUOTE=illdefined]that makes sense, and sorry i missed the discussion when it happened, but what was wrong with Hasslebeck, who'd been here through all of it?[/QUOTE]
Tim Hasselbeck is a hell of a nice guy, who is pretty bright. he also has a below average arm, both strength and accuracy-wise. During his brief period of starts here thanks to injuries, he completed 53.7% of his passes, and had a QB rating of 63.6. That's not something to build on. He's also 27 years old - that's by no means an old man, but it falls awkwardly between young gun and wily veteran.

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[QUOTE=offiss]Your missing the point, and the point is none of those players were drafted higher than the 3rd rd, they were projects that Beathard took a chance on that they could be developed, a far cry from what we gave up to get Campbell, you also can't compare Gibbs first tenure to today's NFL we now have a salary cap to contend with, you do not give up what we gave up for a first rd QB to make him a project, period!

Basically if Gibbs had any confidence in Ramsey there is no way we take Campbell where we did, what is the point? To have 2 bonified starters on our roster to watch Campbell just sit and eat up our salary cap? Tell me what's the plan for Campbell if Gibbs believes in Ramsey? I would like to know the thinking behind that one? As I said from day 1 the Campbell pick was just plain stupid no matter how you look at it.

If Gibbs believes in Ramsey than all he should have been looking for is a #2 backup to groom, instead we now have neither, Campbell is 3 season's away, and Brunell another Gibbs move well we all saw how that panned out.

My question is this, what happens if Ramsey goes down this season? Does anyone think Campbell can step in? Don't make me laugh at that one, so I guess we are 1 hit away from Brunell and a high 1st rd draft pick next year, oh wait we don't have one, WONDERFUL![/QUOTE]
offiss -
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Campbell isn't three years from being ready - I don't think any player is that far. if he isn't ready to play next year, he likely won't ever be. To arbitrarily have him ready in 2008 seems capricious. (I just found a thesaurus).

To say that 2005 is Ramsey's year, despite no history of success (and I'm a huge Ramsey fan) and not be prepared to be wrong would be grossly irresponsible. Brunell will be gone next year, which gives you a choice of Ramsey (whether he's successful or not), a free agent (who will have to adjust to a new offense), or a rookie (who will need to learn not only the offense, but adjust to the speed of the league) - unless you draft a player to learn for a year. The cost was high, true, but if Ramsey can't make the leap this year, what is the alternative?

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I echo what most have said here in regards to Smoot, that he was good his whole career but Williams just raised his profile.. Also I think that he benefitted (at least in the media sense) from being the 2nd best CB available this offseason behind Samari Rolle. If we kept him then I think he would have been regarded, media wise, as part of a 'solid but unspectacular secondary.' Media types ALWAYS accentuate the negative, it's how they keep their jobs.. I am ok with Harris/Rogers/Wilds as long as Springs stays healthy and Taylor stays focused.

With Ramsey however I tend to agree with the dissentors.. While I don't think Gibbs [b] hates [/b] Ramsey as has been insinuated, I don't think he beleives in him either. Two offseasons in a row he has sought to upgrade the position. If you are 100% behind your 26 yr old starter and believe your 34 yr old backup can still play effectively, you don't trade 3 picks for a rookie QB in the 1st round. From all indications it was a smart move since Campbell has impressed thusfar but it's still not the move of a coach who is confident at that position. For those who like to cite the Chargers Brees/Rivers situation, anyone who claims the Chargers are 'happy' to have 2 young talented QB under contract (who are probably taking up close to $10 million in cap space) and on the roster is misguided.. It's better to have a QB you are sure is the future and a solid veteran backup. I don't buy Gibbs assertion 'you get the best football players out there' regarding Campbell when there were other holes that could have been better served by that pick..

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[QUOTE=BrudLee]Tim Hasselbeck is a hell of a nice guy, who is pretty bright. he also has a below average arm, both strength and accuracy-wise. During his brief period of starts here thanks to injuries, he completed 53.7% of his passes, and had a QB rating of 63.6. That's not something to build on. He's also 27 years old - that's by no means an old man, but it falls awkwardly between young gun and wily veteran.[/QUOTE]

i see; thought he was younger. well, on the bright side, Brunell no longer has an excuse to STAY.

Coach Williams certainly has is work cut out for him this season, he already made miracles last year with little, now he has even less to work with. Wish we could have helped him out more in this year's draft (god knows it's the least he deserves) and i hope both our coaches are still HERE when Campbell finally has a chance to make a difference.

Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

I've also noticed that in all of the preseason prognostications there is no mention of Barrow being healthy (according to doctors) and how there should be minimal if any dropoff at MLB if he is able to play.. I honestly think these things are typed in May and they just post them throughout the summer..

Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]
To say that 2005 is Ramsey's year, despite no history of success (and I'm a huge Ramsey fan) and not be prepared to be wrong would be grossly irresponsible. Brunell will be gone next year, which gives you a choice of Ramsey (whether he's successful or not), a free agent (who will have to adjust to a new offense), or a rookie (who will need to learn not only the offense, but adjust to the speed of the league) - unless you draft a player to learn for a year. The cost was high, true, but if Ramsey can't make the leap this year, what is the alternative?[/QUOTE]

yup, the more scenarios we hear, the less faith we see Gibbs has in Ramsey. 2nd or 3rd round is being prudent. 1st round over major needs is being straight doubtful.

Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I've also noticed that in all of the preseason prognostications there is no mention of Barrow being healthy (according to doctors) and how there should be minimal if any dropoff at MLB if he is able to play.. I honestly think these things are typed in May and they just post them throughout the summer..[/QUOTE]

just can't deny Barrow's age. it's already proven in his slow healing - that's why he's been totally written off. sigh.

Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

Despite the fact Gibbs has named Ramsey the starter for the 05 season is "not" a true indication of the fact he has the utmost confidence in him. He was almost forced to remove Brunell from the starting lineup because the team was off to such a poor start. We must remember that Ramsey was here when Gibbs arrived, was not a QB of his choosing. If Brunell is not going to be here after the 05 season, and no one knows just how the future is going to pan out for Ramsey, within a two year period of time we could verey easily be down to Campbell which in all probability has figured into the thinking when we drafted Cambbell. We have no idea what or where Ramsey will be in the next two years, so it's not wise to assume he will be here regardless of what kind of season he has. To some of us dismay, it's difficult to get a true guage on the future of the QB situation until different senerioes play themselves out. However for the short term, and with what we have, the success of the team this year and beyond will boil down to the play of our QB's and the offensive line. I'm hoping that whoever is the QB we will have success, and win games. When we do that I think much of the skepticism surrounding the various elements of the team will subside.

Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

I really like Ramsey and think he can really shine in this league. And I know a lot of us complain about Gibbs not giving Ramsey a fair shake. But he does see Ramsey a lot more than we do, and he sees Campbell.

So maybe he is seeing something that we don't see. Maybe Campbell will ultimately prove to be the better choice longterm. Only time will tell.

By the way, my brother said he saw Campbell and Carlos Rogers the other day. I can't remember where. Says Campbell is a monster, and really ripped. He just towers over Rogers.

Re: Sportsline.com/Judge giving us no love
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Here's someone on [URL=http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_teamarticle/13/20050616/for_gibbs_skins_its_do_or_die_in_2005/]our[/URL] side[/QUOTE]
It's about time.