Room for Bowen?
 

I know it's kind of early to tell, what with training camp still a week away. But I'm looking at the Redskins roster and I'm wondering how many defensive backs the team will end up keeping? Here's the roster as it stands now:

CBs:
Shawn Springs
Carlos Rogers
Walt Harris
Rufus Brown
Garnell Wilds
Ade Jimoh
James Bethea
Artrell Hawkins
Eric Joyce

Safeties:
Sean Taylor
Matt Bowen
Andre Lott
Ryan Clark
Tony Dixon
Pierson Prioleau

My guess is they keep six cornerbacks and 4 safeties.

I'm thinking CBs: Springs, Rogers, Harris, Wilds, Jimoh, Hawkins
Safeties: Taylor, Clark, Lott, Prioleau

This means Bowen doesn't even make the roster. His release fee would be a lot less next offseason but I'm just not sure if there's room for him here. Not after the way Clark stepped up last season.

So with that in mind, I'm wondering...is Bowen tradeable?

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I doubt there'd be much of a trade market for a 28 yr old safety who has never made a Pro Bowl coming off of a knee injury. I think he or Lott will be one of the final cuts..

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I still don't understand the lack of love for Bowen. I'd be shocked if he didn't make the team. I'd be suprised if he doesn't make a run at the starting job.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I agree that it is pretty crowded in our secondary, but I also think that Williams likes Bowen. I mean did you see how much he blitzed Bowen when he was healthy then it seemed, to me atleast, that when Bowen went down Williams then shifted the blitzing duties to our corners. Personaly I would have liked to see Taylor blitz more, but I am happy with what Williams is doing, so I wont complain...

How Williams says that he is a Taylor fan, I also think that he is a Bowen fan, too....

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Taylor and Clark are safe. As for the rest, I think Dixon, Lott, Bowen, and Prioleau all have a decent shot at making the roster. I'd say Bowen is safe, but I don't know how well he's recovered from his knee injury. Right now, I'd say Prioleau has the best shot of the other four mentioned above of making the team since he's so clutch on special teams and has a history with Williams in Buffalo.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

lott is more likely to be cut than bowen... williams like bowen, and bowen can blitz. It's too bad he can't cover, but he's started a lot more games than lott and been fairly productive.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

bowen cant cover??? thats news to me. besides the injuries, he's a very strong option at safety.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

i say taylor clark priolua bowen and lott are players i want on the team but i feel Lott will take the cut.
HAIL TO THE REDSKINS AND HAIL DEPTH

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Bowen looks like an expensive backup, I won't be surprised if he's a camp cut.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

That's what I was thinking, especially the way that Clark plays an overall better game than Bowen.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I'd say Dixon and Lott are the cuts if only four safeties make the team. After the top 3 CBs and top 2 safeties, the DBs will be judged on special teams and versatility. We may go with fewer CBs if Lott or Dixon can outperform Brown, Wilds, or (dare I say it) Jimoh.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

NO ONE can outperform Ade. That's crazy talk.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]NO ONE can outperform Ade. That's crazy talk.[/QUOTE]
Purely a hypothetical. Pretend I didn't say it.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

*sniffle*

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

The Ade is untouchable, let's just stop with this nonsense about him not making the team.

He's a lock.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Let's not forget... most popular #23. Nuff' said.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Also, to try and refrain from putting "loins", "boners" and "football" in the same sentence... one more week until training camp!

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I can definatly see Bowen getting cut. If his knee isn't 100% and we have so much depth with some younger, less expensive guys who have proved themselves why not cut him. I never really liked Bowen, he always seems to get burned and I am sure this injury isn't making him much better in coverage. Who cares if he can blitz, we have plenty of DB's with enough speed and size to get to the QB.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I dont think Bowen will get cut, especially if he returns to the form he was at last year. You have to remember that Clark got beat deep a couple times too, so I dont know that he's 100% safe, although I really like him. As has been said, Williams loves to use Bowen to blitz, and thats alot of what the defense is. I think Bowen will be safe. But to get back to your origianal question, I dont think anyone would give up anything to get him.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I think that training camp will decide who stays and who goes. Last year Clark was a nobody. Bowen/Lott won the starting jobs. Now, Taylor clearly has the lock on one side. They are going to have to see who steps up. Much of the success these backups had was a result of coaching. Except Taylor, noone is a lock.

There will be room for Bowen if he makes room for himself.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I agree with PSUskinsfan11.
Maybe the reason Williams blitzes Bowen so much is because he is a liability in coverage. I do not hate Bowen, but he is replaceable. He played well last season, before he got hurt last year (2-3 games), but he was not very good the year or two before that.


I would not rule out this new guy Dixson so quickly. He was a second round pick, he tied for fifth in the NFL among defensive backs with three sacks. Dixon also tied for the team lead (Dallas) with two forced fumbles. Plus, Dixon was a special teams standout, leading the team with 20 special teams tackles in 2003. This guy can play. At 6' 1" and 215 pounds he brings size to the SS position, something that Lott, Prioleau and Clark lack.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I'm not sure, but I think Dixon can also play either CB or S. So that might be an advantage for him.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Financial ramifications look like this:

Bowen has two years left on his contract. $400,000 in signing bonus money is allocated in each of 2005 and 2006. Base salary for 2005 is $1 million, and $2 million in 2006. This means his cap hits are scheduled to be $1.4 million this year, and $2.4 million next year.

If they cut him in camp, the Skins will save $600,000 on the cap this season, but will carry $400,000 in dead money on the 2006 cap. His 2006 cap number will go from $2.4 million down to $0.4 million, a savings of $2 million. Of course we'd have to pay his replacement to make the comparison fair.

I'd say cutting him is possible. Gregg Williams does like him, but he likes Ryan Clark too. Clark did a pretty good job last year. No need to give $1.4 million to Bowen when you can give peanuts to Ryan Clark and get basically the same performance.

But then again, if you release Gardner and Barrow, then you've got enough cap room to sign the rookies anyway. And at that point, you don't really need any more cap room in 2005. So under that scenario, it would probably just come down to training camp competition. Should be interesting to watch.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

But also remember that we only have so many roster spots.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Isn't Bowen known for being over aggresive in run support and as a result gets beat in both open field opportunities and in general run situations? I could be wrong but isn't that the specific reason why the Packers felt like he was expendable?

Has there been any word on his rehabilitation?

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Lott is hurt and will be offered an injury settlement. Bowen and Dixon will fight for making the team. Not really worried about it since we have Greg Williams running the show. :oink:

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

That's right. I forgot that Lott IS still hurt. Hmmm...

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Why anyone judges Bowen on his performance in the D in Spurrier's last year I will also never know. How many of our defenders played well in that scheme?
::crickets::

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]We may go with fewer CBs if Lott or Dixon can outperform Brown, Wilds, or (dare I say it) Jimoh.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Wilds will be cut. Remember the great job he did against Randy Moss??

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Interesting that no one mentions the possibility that while Taylor would occupy a roster spot he would be unable to play if he goes to prison. This is a possibility the trial is still set to start and hasn't been continued as of yet. You may want to consideer keeping a safety that you otherwise wouldn't in case he disappears on you. I think that is one of the main reasons that PP is here now, he is a DB and a safety.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

That might be one of those bridges that you can cross when you get to it though...

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]Financial ramifications look like this:

Bowen has two years left on his contract. $400,000 in signing bonus money is allocated in each of 2005 and 2006. Base salary for 2005 is $1 million, and $2 million in 2006. This means his cap hits are scheduled to be $1.4 million this year, and $2.4 million next year.

If they cut him in camp, the Skins will save $600,000 on the cap this season, but will carry $400,000 in dead money on the 2006 cap. His 2006 cap number will go from $2.4 million down to $0.4 million, a savings of $2 million. Of course we'd have to pay his replacement to make the comparison fair.

I'd say cutting him is possible. Gregg Williams does like him, but he likes Ryan Clark too. Clark did a pretty good job last year. No need to give $1.4 million to Bowen when you can give peanuts to Ryan Clark and get basically the same performance.

But then again, if you release Gardner and Barrow, then you've got enough cap room to sign the rookies anyway. And at that point, you don't really need any more cap room in 2005. So under that scenario, it would probably just come down to training camp competition. Should be interesting to watch.[/QUOTE]
it may come down to the money,
so we have to cut him in camp, if we don't we would have to pay 1.4 and 2.4 milllion in penalties in the next two years. If we cut him in camp we only pay .8 million this year and 400,000 next year in cap penalties?

not bad, money could be the deciding factor, we need the money and 2 million next year is a huge plus

the problem is that we really don't know bowen in GWs scheme, he didn't really play last year, the one game he was amazing 2 sacks and a forced fumble. if hee played half as well for the rest of the year he would be challanging ed reed. We can't know or expect him to continue at that pace but it is a BIG decision expecially if bowen really can put those numbers up only one out of 4 games with GW.

IN GIBBS AND WILLIAMS WE TRUST, they obviously know more about the players than we do and they will make the right decision.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Beyond Springs, Harris, and Rogers at CB, I wonder about the other guys. Jimoh is so-so in coverage but the dude isn't bad on special teams. Wilds and R. Brown are both interesting prospects with plenty of potential; Wilds in particular is impressive. And what about bringing in Hawkins and Joyce? Those guys could very likely challenge for the 4th corner job. Here's my personal picks for it:

Springs (no explanation needed)
Harris (he'll begin as the starter but by late season will be the nickelback)
Rogers (will replace Harris as the starter near season's end)
Wilds (this dude will only get better)
Jimoh (character guy and ST man)
Brown (will beat out Hawkins and Joyce; price tag will be cheaper)

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]it may come down to the money,
so we have to cut him in camp, if we don't we would have to pay 1.4 and 2.4 milllion in penalties in the next two years. If we cut him in camp we only pay .8 million this year and 400,000 next year in cap penalties?

not bad, money could be the deciding factor, we need the money and 2 million next year is a huge plus

the problem is that we really don't know bowen in GWs scheme, he didn't really play last year, the one game he was amazing 2 sacks and a forced fumble. if hee played half as well for the rest of the year he would be challanging ed reed. We can't know or expect him to continue at that pace but it is a BIG decision expecially if bowen really can put those numbers up only one out of 4 games with GW.

IN GIBBS AND WILLIAMS WE TRUST, they obviously know more about the players than we do and they will make the right decision.[/QUOTE]

If he's on the team this year, he counts 1.4 million against the cap. If he is cut this year, he counts 0.4 million this year, and 0.4 million next year.

But if you're already planning on getting rid of Barrow and Gardner, you don't really need anymore cap space than that. I think they'll keep Bowen around given the Lott rehab and the ST situation.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I think Lott getting cut will really burn. I hated to see Iffy go myself, I thought he was young and still growing. Bowen is such a liability in the passing game I think he has a real chance. Everyone says Williams loves converted CBs which is what Lott is. I think Lott/Clark at the SS position give us a much more versatile team. They don't hit like Bowen, but they'll give up less big plays.

Seriously though -- if we EVER lost Ade I think this board would go into a tailspin. We wouldn't have anyone to talk about.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

Or anyone to build a shrine of in my closet.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

theres been a lot of posts, sorry for not quoting, but:
*even if ST does get convicted (which looks very unlikely now) he'd still be able to avoid STARTING the trail till the end of the season in all probability.
*bowen mot definately is a total liability in coverage, thats why the packers gave him up, he plays the run pretty well though and he' not afraid of hitting people... someone mentioned dixon had 3 sacks last year, well bowen had 2 in ONE game.
*I think bowen makes the team for the same reason clemons is around, he's a great sack threat. Williams would probably keep even as a non starter for situational rotation... beside that, having a former starter as a backup is never a bad thing (which will happen if either clark OR bowen win the job).

as far as the money thing, cutting bowen would definately save ome cash, but with gardner and barrow looking like they'll be released for sure, i don't think we'll really need the money for this season.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

True. You reminded me that G. Wills likes to use decoys in his system and putting Bowen in to line up like he's going to rush and then drop into coverage would be a good one.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I think we're seeing a little revisionist history with the Bowen signing. Green Bay offered their backup strong safety a tender offer as a restricted free agent. He was firmly entrenched behind Marques Anderson and Darren Sharper (remember that name - he will probably go to the Hall of Fame). The Redskins offer was for four years, $6 million, with a $1.6 million bonus. The reason the bonus was that high is that the Packers wanted Bowen - they just didn't want to pay that much.

The knock on Bowen is that he's horrible in coverage. Bowen made probably three bad plays in his first year with the Skins - taking horrible angles to plays which allowed our opponents to torch him and the team. He also made several very good plays that year. One of the reasons he was acquired was the last game he played with the Packers, and was asked to shadow a certain Mike Vick. He ended up that game with 15 tackles (10 solo), leading his team in the category.

Since he played in all of five games last year, perhaps we ought not hold his 2004 stats against him, especially since they compare favorably to (dum-dum-DUM) Sean Taylor when projected out over a full season in some categories.

Re: Room for Bowen?
 

I like Bowen and if I remember right he was playing out of position two years ago anyway right?

And I know that everyone always says you can't lose your job to an injury, but it happens all the time. And I just have this feeling that the starting job is now Clark's to lose (this is just a feeling, that's all).

So if Bowen can't wrestle that starting job back from Clark, I think he might just be too expensive a backup. We'll find out soon enough