Hailskins Article- Where's the D Line Help?
 

[url]http://www.hailredskins.com/CupofSchmoe1.htm[/url]

This article speaks of Greg Williams need of a strong front 4 to make his schemes work, and questions whether the moves we've made thus far this offseason are enough. The author thinks no, and I agree. We still have no pass rusher whatsoever. Wynn never has been or will be, and Phillip Daniels had what, 3 or 4 sacks last season?

I want Sean Taylor as much as anyone, but should we not try to trade down to 10-15, where one of the premier defensive players would not be too high a pick (Udeze, Will Smith)- and pick up an additional second rounder where we could then pick up Troupe or Watson at TE and fill that hole?
Or are there any likely June 1 cuts that we are eyeing to shore up our pass rush?
I don''t like any of the names I have heard so far (Tony Brackens- too many injuries)- a few others not even good enough to remember-

The author of the article makes a very good point in that we've been saying we need to upgrade the line for years. Cornelius Griffen was a good start, but we need to find a way to get Udeze on this team. 24 sacks over the last two seasons is all you have to say to me.....

I think that when Gibbs saw some guys he liked on film, he was talking about the D line. I think Wynn/Zellner were playing way under their potential, and I think with Griffin and Noble (maybe not this year, but next) will be a solid combo. I also think Daniels will be solid.

Do we have a great line? No. Are we even in the top half in the league? No. Is it enough to generate the pressure needed to free up our LBs and other blitzing players? Yes. Williams has made no bones about it, we're going to be coming this year. When you have the talent at LB we have, we should be able to do just fine rushing the passer. I think the D Line will be the one thing that needs a fix next offseason, but let's see how everything pans out!

[QUOTE=Daseal]I think that when Gibbs saw some guys he liked on film, he was talking about the D line. I think Wynn/Zellner were playing way under their potential, and I think with Griffin and Noble (maybe not this year, but next) will be a solid combo. I also think Daniels will be solid.

Do we have a great line? No. Are we even in the top half in the league? No. Is it enough to generate the pressure needed to free up our LBs and other blitzing players? Yes. Williams has made no bones about it, we're going to be coming this year. When you have the talent at LB we have, we should be able to do just fine rushing the passer. I think the D Line will be the one thing that needs a fix next offseason, but let's see how everything pans out![/QUOTE]

[B]"Is it enough to generate the pressure needed to free up our LBs and other blitzing players? Yes."[/B]

Daseal, we don't know that yet! I'll agree that the LB position has been upgraded with Lavar's move to the weak side, but I also feel that there may be too much faith in the pass rushing skills of Marcus Washington. Don't get me wrong, he's a HUGE improvement over Jessie Armstead. But the guy has 18 sacks in 4 years. That's...what... a whopping 4.5 sacks per season?!?

And all due respect to Joe Gibbs, defense is not his forte. He's even admitted as much. But knowing that, it would be scary to think that he looked at game film of the defensive line last season and actually 'liked what he saw'. I'm certain he was speaking of certain offensive players.

Let me be clear: The defensive line is STILL in dreadful shape -- with or without Griffin and Daniels. We need significant help there. If we don't get it, I don't care what kind of schemes Gregg Williams comes up with. You still need talented players to execute. And that is something this team still doesn't have.

If Williams is going to bring pressure if will most likely be from LB and safety blitzes. This D line the way it is now is not one that can bring heat on it's own.

Gotta trust Williams and Gibbs to make the decisions.

I think the Skins will be looking to pick up some June 1st casualties.

The Skins D-Line was always just tough and gritty guys when Gibbs was here before. The only Big name player was Manley. LBs were always much better athletically.

I have faith in the coaching staff to bring out the best in these guys, we'll have to wait until the camp and pre-season to see where we're at.

Our D-line isnt the best, but if you see Lavar running right at you it makes you think twice about who to block. I see our D-line getting a lot more sacks next year as a direct correlation of teams olines trying to pick up the blitzing linebackers.

If they take Taylor, I'll be happy. If they trade down a few spots and take Will Smith, Udeze, or Harris I'd be happy as well.

Winslow
Taylor
Smith
Udeze
Harris

If they end up with any of those 5, I'll be happy.

If they beat the Cowboys, TWICE, on the way to the Super Bowl, ill be happy!

aw heck what am i saying, im a skins fan through and through, im going ot be happy. I just want them to draft a Cane so I can buy his Jersey, but I figure worst comes to Worst ill buy a Portis jersey, so its cool.

SkinsandTerps:

The Redskins DL in the 1980s had Dave Butz at tackle and Charles Mann at DE. Either of those players were the equal of Dexter Manley and both were probably superior overall.

Monte Coleman was an athletic linebacker. (For those too young to recall, they actually experimented with Coleman as a punt returner one year in training camp!) The other Redskin linebackers in that time frame were solid players who were much more like plodders than throughbreds. Neil Olkewicz (sp?) was a fine MLB but he was not much more "athletic" than an oak tree.

One player who seem's to have been cast to the way side on this site is Jermaine haley, he finished the season very strong for us, he was getting a nice push inside, he looked like he was starting to come into his own down the stretch last season, he's also 6'4" 325lbs maybe he's a guy gibb's feel's can start, I think he would make a nice combo next to griffin.

More Blitzing means means moreo pressure on our CB. And we lost champ Bailey this year. I'm personally one who things our defense has a long way to go. Part of the reason why I think its vital we use our first round draft pick on a defense player this year. Everybody who thinks that Williams can make miracles happen with no talent in dreaming. That was the case in Buffalo and it will be the cas here. In my opnion the defense is about three players away. I hope they fill on of those gaps with sean Tayler.

I think it's a little bold to say our defense that is littered with young stars doesn't have any talent. Fred Smoot, Shawn Springs, LaVar, Washington, etc all GREAT players and with the exception of Springs, young. I think we have a lot of talent on defense, and I think how far that our defense slipped last year (that was nearly the same as the year before) shows what a great coordinator can do for ya!

Under Lewis don't forget we had a disruptive DT in Gardener that collapsed the pocket and drew constant double teams which freed everyone else up. We don't have anyone like that right now.

I agree that alot of the woes on D last year have to be attributed to Edwards, but part of it was from a lack of talent and production up front that put a huge strain on the rest of the D.

Mattyk makes an excellent point here about Gardner- he was a menace inside for us two years ago. I guess the question is can C Griffin be that kind of player? I sort of doubt it- and I don't think Jermaine Haley or Holsey or any of the others can either. It would just be nice to see the Skins get a good young defensive lineman to develop. We haven't drafted a difference maker on the D Line ever. Sure we can rush Lavar and Washington to get pressure, but teams are much more successful when they don't HAVE to rush their backers to create pressure. The year the Bucs won the championship, everyone raved about how they could get pressure with just their front four. The same was true of the Ravens when they won it. That way, when you DO bring a backer, they REALLY don't know what to do. I just don't think it's good to have to bring backers or safeties on a consistent basis to generate a pass rush b/c sooner or later, you're gonna get burned.

To add to raleigh's point, look no further than the Panthers last year and how difficult it was to deal with their front four. Granted we're not going to have a line like that overnight, but picking up a young stud DT or DE in the draft would be a good start.

If we have a good d-line that will put pressure on the qb it will make the d-backs job easier. My pick is d-line.

If there was a Peppers type of player in this years draft it would make a lot more sense. I suppose we could trade down and pick up a lineman, mabye even two if we traded with the Patriots. Udezi would be a great pick up in the 10-15 range, earlier than that would be a stretch. I still think we take the impact player at 5, and if they want to do some dealing to get another lineman then that would be a bonus.

Keep in mind that picking up Gardener was a huge risk. He had been a dissapointment in Miami, and disruptive in the locker room. At this time two years ago, no one knew he would have such a great year and there were many doubts about the pick up.
With this coaching staff, who knows who will step up....I bet [I]someone[/I] will....

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]Keep in mind that picking up Gardener was a huge risk. He had been a dissapointment in Miami, and disruptive in the locker room. At this time two years ago, no one knew he would have such a great year and there were many doubts about the pick up.
With this coaching staff, who knows who will step up....I bet [i]someone[/i] will....[/QUOTE]
True but one thing that couldn't be questioned with Gardener was his raw talent.

We don't have anyone on the d-line currently with his kind of talent.

I disagree, Griffen has a lot of raw talent and lived up to it his rookie year but didnt play as well the last two years. I think with coaching and Daniels playing next to him that our d-line will step it up this year.

Where's the D Line help?
 

I couldn't agree more SKINSnCANES. Someone on our D Line will step up this season and be more effective than we might think. In my opinion there's no way our Defense should have slipped as far as it did the last two years. The last time we reached the playoffs our best pass rusher was Marco Coleman, who was on the downside of his tour. Ray Rhodes had us ranked in the top five, Marty's Brother Kurt had us in the top seven with perhaps less talented players at some positions. I cannot believe that two players. Daryl Gardener, & Big Daddy were enough of a loss for the Defense to dip into the 20's the past two years. It appears painfully obvious that coaching is the difference maker. Sometime's the most talented players are not the best players. "RUN THE FOOTBALL & STOP THE RUN" and many of our defensive woes will be taken care of. Third down defense, and draft the best defensive player available at # Five.

Go Skins!!

My birthday is the 22nd, yet im more excited about the draft, heh

Does anyone think that Knoble will be healthy enough to make any kind of an impact next year?

Our D-line is still terrible, thats one of the main reasons I've been really disappointed with the offseason, we really didn't solve our biggest weakness from last year at that spot.

[QUOTE=love them hogs]Does anyone think that Knoble will be healthy enough to make any kind of an impact next year?[/QUOTE]

Noble had a career threatening injury and will be lucky to start the year on the active roster. If he makes any impact it will be a plus, but this kind of injury take over a year to come back from, only to have the knee be 95%-98% of what it was before the injury.

I guess Noble is ahead of schedule and the coaches are looking forward to seeing what he can do, but I wouldn't count on him for much this year.

Yea all I heard was that hes ahead of schedule and hopefully will be able to play. We'll see as the next camp comes around what they say.