Punter debate
 

I know this is weighing heavily on everyone's mind, who should the Skins keep as the punter?

Actually in all seriousness Groom has looked great and is booming the hell out of the ball this preseason.

At only 23 years old, I think the staff has a difficult decision, do you keep the young and obviously talented Groom, or do you keep the reliable Tupa who's having some back problems right now?

Re: Punter debate
 

I also think Groom has punted quite well for us and this position battle has weighed heavier on my mind than the Quarterback position!..LOL!!!! just kidding!

Seriously, I wouldn't mind seeing Groom punt for us! We are going to have games where field position is a big factor and that is where special teams become extremely important.

Re: Punter debate
 

Normally, I'd say Tupa. His experience as a starting QB gives us a better opportunity to run fakes - and even if we don't the other team must respect that.

But...

Tupa is a 40 year old with back problems. He also costs more. You have to go with the kid here.

Re: Punter debate
 

I'm not sure what the real extent of the back problem is for Tupa. Clearly Tupa is top shelf and I expect him to be the guy. Groom will play in the NFL somewhere after his performance this preseason. I see him making the first cut while we find out more on Tupa.

Re: Punter debate
 

I think Tupa still may have a good year in him... but he's getting old, has a cranky back and is wearing down. There's a good chance that he may not be able to stay healthy this year.

Groom has a big leg... his big negative is that he sometimes outkicks the coverage and doesn't have the touch that Tupa has. That will come with experience. He is a young guy and could be our punter for the next 5+ years.

Gibbs isn't the kind of guy that runs alot of punter fake plays... heck, he doesn't even like the shotgun formation, so I really don't see that being an issue.

I think Groom is our best bet.

Re: Punter debate
 

groom is good enough and much younger/somewhat cheaper... tupa has 2 years or so left, groom could have 10+ so I really wouldn't mind.

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I am having a very hard time deciding whether the Redskins should keep Tupa, Groom, or both. Good free agent punters don't come around often and so snagging a good, young punter is a rarity. In that sense, I really like Groom. On the other hand, Tupa is a great vet with good experience.

All in all, I think I'll be happy no matter what we do as I trust our coaching staff to make the right choices.

Re: Punter debate
 

If I was the coach I think I would be leaning towards Groom because he's so much younger... but we all know how Gibbs loves the vets and as long as Tupa's back isn't a serious concern I'd expect Tupa will keep the job.

Groom is going to have a job somewhere though, he's really been impressive.

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I'd probaboly keep Tupa and waste a practice squad spot on Groom. Yeah I know you shouldnt waste a spot like that for a punter, but the guys got talent and we could use him soon. Tupa was really reliable last year, so we'll see how they decide.

Re: Punter debate
 

Tupa is to streaky, even for us, he would have a great two or three games and suck the next, so I'd take groom (not to say he is going to be streaky) but you cant say out kicking the coverage is a bad thing. some of these guys are paid to get there quicker. groom has had good hang time, so its not outkicking the coverage, its ST'mers not getting there quick enough and or not making the initial tackle IMO. Ive watched groom punt for OSU and he has never had a prob BOOTING the ball.

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[QUOTE=jrocx69]Tupa is to streaky, even for us, he would have a great two or three games and suck the next, so I'd take groom (not to say he is going to be streaky) but you cant say out kicking the coverage is a bad thing. some of these guys are paid to get there quicker. groom has had good hang time, so its not outkicking the coverage, its ST'mers not getting there quick enough and or not making the initial tackle IMO. Ive watched groom punt for OSU and he has never had a prob BOOTING the ball.[/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Tupa. From where I'm standing, Tupa is very consistent. While I like Groom a lot, a good case can be made for keeping Tupa.

Tupa

Re: Punter debate
 

Tupa when healthy is a very reliable which we haven't really seen in DC in a while, but since he is hurting and Groom has been doing a great job (and as someone posted he's cheaper and a heck of a lot younger) I'd lean more towards Groom. And I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be suprised if more than half of his punts have been downed within the 20 and that in the preseason he has one of the smallest gaps between avg punt and net avg of any punters who've seen action.

Re: Punter debate
 

Tupa did better last year than Groom has done thus far, I don't know if Groom knows how to drop a ball in the 5 but i do know that tupa does

Net Average for Groom this preseason: 34.7
Net Average for Tupa Last Season: 35.2
Gross Average for Groom this preseason:42.3
Gross Average for Toooop Last Season: 44.1

Re: Punter debate
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]I'd probaboly keep Tupa and waste a practice squad spot on Groom. Yeah I know you shouldnt waste a spot like that for a punter, but the guys got talent and we could use him soon. Tupa was really reliable last year, so we'll see how they decide.[/QUOTE]
Someone would sign him off the squad, so unfortunately there's really no point.

Re: Punter debate
 

Groom on the practice squad means another team can sign him. Make him active and give Tupa the ax. :oink:

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[QUOTE=BossHog]Groom on the practice squad means another team can sign him. Make him active and give Tupa the ax. :oink:[/QUOTE]

Considering the importance of, and difficulty finding, a good punter, is it possible we'd keep both Tupa and Groom? It would be hard to make room for him (especially considering that we have a whole bunch of talented "depth-players" at other positions), but he might be worth it. Tupa only has a season or two left and my memory of shanked Barker punts still haunts me.

PS - Didn't we let place kicker David Akers go because we didn't think we had the room for him on the roster?

Re: Punter debate
 

Tupa...plus should, God forbid, Ramsey, Brunell and Campbell all go down Tupa can play some QB. In fact I had thought we might do a fake punt/pass or two last year with Tupa

Re: Punter debate
 

[QUOTE=EEich]I think Tupa still may have a good year in him... but he's getting old, has a cranky back and is wearing down. There's a good chance that he may not be able to stay healthy this year.

Groom has a big leg... his big negative is that he sometimes outkicks the coverage and doesn't have the touch that Tupa has. That will come with experience. He is a young guy and could be our punter for the next 5+ years.

Gibbs isn't the kind of guy that runs alot of punter fake plays... heck, he doesn't even like the shotgun formation, so I really don't see that being an issue.

I think Groom is our best bet.[/QUOTE]


Actually EE, I have to disagree there, Gibbs ran his fair share of fakes his first go round, Hayes was a fast guy for a punter and Gibbs used that on occasion, he also would quick snap to Mitchell on occasion, he was also king of the onside kick when teams weren't looking for it.

I do agree with you on Groom though I think the youth movement should win out, the way this kid has been kicking I don't see him having much trouble finding a team if we let him go.

It sound's like to me Gibbs really likes Tupa, and if Tupa is healthy he's the man, but between his back and Groom bombing the ball he's in a tough spot, Groom has some work to do as far as directional, and situational punting, but I would go with him, he will eventually come around. If we stick with Tupa and his back starts acting up again, we could be in trouble because I don't believe Groom will be available once he's cut.

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Tupa was so good last year. Not only was he able to boot the ball 50+ yds at times, he could also drop in inside the 20 better than anybody. I know he has some back problems, but unless proven wrong, he is still one of the best in the league. To have the kind of average he had last yr with all the times we punted says something.

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Tupa is also a holder for John Hall during field goals. It may not sound like an important position, but I think having a reliable holder is crucial.

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[QUOTE=Kevikazi]Tupa is also a holder for John Hall during field goals. It may not sound like an important position, but I think having a reliable holder is crucial.[/QUOTE]

That is an EXCELLENT point Kevikazi. I didn't think of it but I am glad you did.

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[QUOTE=VishsSkins]Tupa was so good last year. Not only was he able to boot the ball 50+ yds at times, he could also drop in inside the 20 better than anybody. I know he has some back problems, but unless proven wrong, he is still one of the best in the league. To have the kind of average he had last yr with all the times we punted says something.[/QUOTE]

What a difference a year makes, huh? An injured punter isn't going to do any team any good. And goes for guys at any position. How much money do we have invested in Tupa? :oink:

Re: Punter debate
 

[QUOTE=Kevikazi]Tupa is also a holder for John Hall during field goals. It may not sound like an important position, but I think having a reliable holder is crucial.[/QUOTE]

True, true. There must be some chemistry/trust between the holder and kicker. Maybe Groom can place too? In any event, I like the idea of the punter holding for the kicker rather than one of our QBs holding.

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Who was holding last night? No problems there. :oink:

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What are the Cap numbers like i mean i am sure we can get a trade for Toop but I like Tupa so much more. Is his injury THAT serious i think it is just because it is preseason, otherwise he would be playing. I don't claim to know much about Groom but i don't know anyone who can drop the ball inside the 10 much like toop.

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[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]What are the Cap numbers like i mean i am sure we can get a trade for Toop but I like Tupa so much more. Is his injury THAT serious i think it is just because it is preseason, otherwise he would be playing. I don't claim to know much about Groom but i don't know anyone who can drop the ball inside the 10 much like toop.[/QUOTE]
Tupa's a very good punter, but I doubt any sane GM would trade for him. It's rare these days that a punter or kicker gets signed to more thana two year deal anyway, so free agency is how they move around.

I don't think his "injury" is that serious on the face - he has a stiff back. The problem is that (and I hope I don't offend any 40 year olds out there) he's [B]40 freakin' years old![/B] The recovery time slows, and the odds of his back stiffening up again are good. I don't think we should hold onto Tupa, and have to pick up punters on odd weeks when Father Time is giving him a kick in the ass.

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We could get a first rounder for Tupa, easy

;)

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]We could get a first rounder for Tupa, easy

;)[/QUOTE]

Are you joking? A first round pick? We could get at least two first rounders. :biggthump

Re: Punter debate
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]Normally, I'd say Tupa. His experience as a starting QB gives us a better opportunity to run fakes - and even if we don't the other team must respect that.

But...

Tupa is a 40 year old with back problems. He also costs more. You have to go with the kid here.[/QUOTE]


I wanted us to run a fake punt all year last year and we didnt try it once. Had Gibbs actually ran a few trick plays id be more in favor of keeping Tupa. He was amazing for us last year, which was a nice change of pace after the last few years of inconsistent punting. I like Grooms young leg but I worry that he will have the occasional pooch punt like we got used to, and they prove very costly.

Im going to vote for Groom right now just because tupa is hurt, otherwise id saly stick with the guy that should have been in the probowl last year.

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[QUOTE=offiss]Actually EE, I have to disagree there, Gibbs ran his fair share of fakes his first go round, Hayes was a fast guy for a punter and Gibbs used that on occasion, he also would quick snap to Mitchell on occasion, he was also king of the onside kick when teams weren't looking for it.

I do agree with you on Groom though I think the youth movement should win out, the way this kid has been kicking I don't see him having much trouble finding a team if we let him go.

It sound's like to me Gibbs really likes Tupa, and if Tupa is healthy he's the man, but between his back and Groom bombing the ball he's in a tough spot, Groom has some work to do as far as directional, and situational punting, but I would go with him, he will eventually come around. If we stick with Tupa and his back starts acting up again, we could be in trouble because I don't believe Groom will be available once he's cut.[/QUOTE]

I think he was much more consevative last year than he was in his first stint when he was chucking the ball more often to the Smurfs/Fun Bunch.... I agree, 20 years ago he would have run more fakes. Gibbs V.2005, I'm not so sure.

Re: Punter debate
 

I can't answer the poll, but if Tupa isn't hurt he should stay. I've never seen the skins get better field position out of their punting game then last year. Thats also the reason you keep James Thrash. He's a Special Teams beast and a very decent option at #3 reciever. I know tupa is old, but he's not exactly out there tackling people. Punting a ball shouldn't stretch you much more than taking a golf swing. I'd have to see him play again to see if his "injury" affected him. I am impressed with Groom's power, but tupa could place the ball consistantly within the 10 and give his coverage plenty of time to get there.

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Why not lock up a good young punter now? But I agree that if TUpa is healthy, he stays. But those back things can be nagging, especially for a 40 year old punter. We had our share of lingering. nagging injuries last season. Wonder if we're more likely to pull the trigger for that reason?

How was Groom last year? Why was he cut? Did he hold on the FGs last night? WHy not have your #2 QB do that, for fakes?

Questions, questions...

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wow, close debate. I say Groom cuz we should start the team of the future now.

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[QUOTE=JWsleep]Why not lock up a good young punter now? But I agree that if TUpa is healthy, he stays. But those back things can be nagging, especially for a 40 year old punter. We had our share of lingering. nagging injuries last season. Wonder if we're more likely to pull the trigger for that reason?[/QUOTE]

I could go with Tupa and/or Groom. But, I feel slightly uneasy about relying on a punter who had a few good preseason games.

Re: Punter debate
 

Redskins just signed Chris Mohr...16 year vet.
So much for Andy Groom's chances.

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskins-punters&prov=ap&type=lgns[/url]

Re: Punter debate
 

I saw that, interesting situation obviously Gibbs doesn't agree with most of us on Groom, I say take the kid with the leg, but at this point hopefully Tupa recovers quickly.