Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[url="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aq8rvfDK1e9U&refer=us"]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aq8rvfDK1e9U&refer=us[/url]

This is really getting ridiculous, I've read other articles that say $4 isn't out of the question either.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

This is out of control. I know its selfish to get pissed about this with all the stuff going on down south, but this is really really getting rediculous. I seriously dont know if i'll have the money to drive to school.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

aw, it's ok everybody. we got saddam.

:frusty:

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

Here's an idea... Why don't we take some of that defense money and start using it on alternate fuel sources? I also heard that there's a carbeurator that was developed years ago that allows for 80-100 MPG, but the oil companies bought the idea. I don't know if that's conspiracy theory or not, but it sounds interesting.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

Combine Labor Day weekend with the tragedy along the Gulf Coast, and you have higher gas prices...they'll settle down a bit after Labor Day, but expect to see the national average to hover around 2.70 for a while...

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

It already costs me nearly $30 to fill my tank, and it's not like I drive a gas hog I drive a Ford Focus.

I seriously don't know how people with SUVs and trucks can afford to fill their tanks.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie]Combine Labor Day weekend with the tragedy along the Gulf Coast, and you have higher gas prices...they'll settle down a bit after Labor Day, but expect to see the national average to hover around 2.70 for a while...[/QUOTE]
Wait a minute...

That's not a conspiracy! That's logic!




Get him!!

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

this isn't the war as much as the refineries down south that won't be working for a while.

The green eco zealots wont let more refineries be built (polution laws etc), and refinery capacity is a bigger problem than getting fuel supplies. part of the gas cost is also inflation too, that's why even though these may be the highest gas prices ever, in relative terms, they're not.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

Yes, it is getting ridiculous...very ridiculous.

But yes, the refineries just can't produce enough and the green peace people don't want more refineries built so it just creates more problems for everyone.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

If you really want to feel better check out the European gas prices.

I would like to see us (the West) divest ourselves of our need for oil (yes, utopian) through alternative fuel sources, better use of public transit and ponies.

I never had a pony as a child.......

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

the eco terrorists want cleaner power, yet hate nuclear power (which is safer and less toxic than coal plants etc that are still being used today)... once people get their heads on straight maybe we can move forward.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

I drive a Ford F-150 SuperCab. It has a 5.4 liter V-8 with a thirty gallon tank.

You do the math.

I wish the Iraq war WAS for oil.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

yeah, the prices around me finally eclipsed $3/gallon ([url]www.[yourstate]gasprices.com[/url])

guess Dubya tapped the reserves a little too late...

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

:vomit-smi this sux, I would have filled up sunday if I had known it would get this bad this quickly. I got a bit of gas sunday @2.49, drove by the same station on the way to work and it was 2.89, and then on my way home it was freakin 3.19!!!! I remember filling up my tank 4-4 1/2 years ago I could fill up my tank for about $10. I'm just glad I don't have a gas guzzler right now, lol.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

The argument that eco-terrorists are responsible for limitations in US oil refinement capacity is insipid. While its true that most Americans - eco-terrorists if you prefer - do not desire a refinery in their backyard (indeed, new projects have met predominantly local opposition) the Big-Five oil companies are equally reluctant to open new refineries. The reason? The status quo situation is such that, absent extant oil reserves, supply shocks artificially spike oil's market value by impeding demand. While this is bad for us, it is very, very good for the oil companies' profit lines. If you don't believe me, see a 2001 FTC report which inidicated just this: that the big five had artificially inflated prices by intentionally keeping refinement capacity low.

But more problematically, the argument for increased refining activity presumes oil supplies capable of keeping up with global demand, which they won't be able to. This is extreme myopia. Global oil consumption is predicted to jump about 40 percent over the next twenty years, at a time when Saudi Arabia will realize its peak production capacity. You should really read the stuff Houston energy investment banker Matt Simmons is writing about this right now. Pretty compelling...

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

Were getting accused of being an imperial power out for oil. I say let's prove them right and start stealing Iraqi oil. J/K

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]The argument that eco-terrorists are responsible for limitations in US oil refinement capacity is insipid. While its true that most Americans - eco-terrorists if you prefer - do not desire a refinery in their backyard (indeed, new projects have met predominantly local opposition) the Big-Five oil companies are equally reluctant to open new refineries. The reason? The status quo situation is such that, absent extant oil reserves, supply shocks artificially spike oil's market value by impeding demand. While this is bad for us, it is very, very good for the oil companies' profit lines. If you don't believe me, see a 2001 FTC report which inidicated just this: that the big five had artificially inflated prices by intentionally keeping refinement capacity low.

But more problematically, the argument for increased refining activity presumes oil supplies capable of keeping up with global demand, which they won't be able to. This is extreme myopia. Global oil consumption is predicted to jump about 40 percent over the next twenty years, at a time when Saudi Arabia will realize its peak production capacity. You should really read the stuff Houston energy investment banker Matt Simmons is writing about this right now. Pretty compelling...[/QUOTE]

thats why nuke plants would help, but the greens dont like them either... talk about a catch 22... either way, oil isn't the problem, we still got plenty of oil, its refined fuels.

The oil rigs can be back up and pumping in weeks, the refineries can't be functional in nearly the sasme timeframe. Maybe the oil companies don't like it, but i'm sure there's plenty of people (energy companies etc) with enough money that would be willing to invest in building more refinery capacity if the government cleared the red tape for them. The profit margin is pretty good...

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]thats why nuke plants would help, but the greens dont like them either... talk about a catch 22... either way, oil isn't the problem, we still got plenty of oil, its refined fuels.

The oil rigs can be back up and pumping in weeks, the refineries can't be functional in nearly the sasme timeframe. Maybe the oil companies don't like it, but i'm sure there's plenty of people (energy companies etc) with enough money that would be willing to invest in building more refinery capacity if the government cleared the red tape for them. The profit margin is pretty good...[/QUOTE]

See, the profit margin isn't good at all, because greater refinement capacity lowers the market price of oil. So logically companies don't want to invest millions in unpopular facilities that DEVALUE THEIR PRODUCT! Makes sense.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

The gas prices went from $2.62 to $3.42 in less than 3 days where I'm at. I think it's time for the bicycle.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]See, the profit margin isn't good at all, because greater refinement capacity lowers the market price of oil. So logically companies don't want to invest millions in unpopular facilities that DEVALUE THEIR PRODUCT! Makes sense.[/QUOTE]

no it doesn't... first off, non oil companies can make refineries. More refineries means higher demand for crude oil, and a higher supply of processed fuels.

Since a refinery deals with processed fuels, and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the extraction of oil (beyond buying it at market price) they wouldn't be devauling their own product anymore than any other commodity in existance (like, say corn, steel, or aspirin). As long as you can get the efficiencies to work so you make a profit after costs, there's no problem.

By your example we'd only have 2 corn farms in america so they could charge 20$ an ear, but guess what? that'd make absolutely no sense.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]no it doesn't... first off, non oil companies can make refineries. More refineries means higher demand for crude oil, and a higher supply of processed fuels.

Since a refinery deals with processed fuels, and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the extraction of oil (beyond buying it at market price) they wouldn't be devauling their own product anymore than any other commodity in existance (like, say corn, steel, or aspirin). As long as you can get the efficiencies to work so you make a profit after costs, there's no problem.

By your example we'd only have 2 corn farms in america so they could charge 20$ an ear, but guess what? that'd make absolutely no sense.[/QUOTE]

None of the big five are actively petitioning to build any new refineries. It is true that a few private companies are attempting to revitalize the refinerey industry, but most shy away from the unpredictability associated with it. Says the NY Times:
"The business of turning crude oil into gasoline, jet fuel or heating oil has rarely been a lucrative proposition. It has dismal profit margins compared with its more glamorous cousin, exploration. It is highly cyclical and fairly unpredictable, because demand for gasoline swings sharply by season. And because of low oil prices over the past decades, refiners have been forced into cutthroat competition that has driven many of the smaller refiners out of business."
I don't think you understand how limiting refinement capacity can impact price so let me explain it again. By operating at full capacity no reserve supplies are accumulated, which keeps the price high. More oil going into the marketplace would bring the price down. Add in the fact that it costs about 3 billion dollars to build a refinery, and that congresss didn't exempt refineries from MTBE liability, and you can see why its not econimical for big oil companies to build new plants.

While your corn example is obviously and intentionally ridiculous, it does somewhat parallel recent history. In the 90's congress repealed a new deal farming policy which had limited the amount of corn farmers could sell. Once this act was repealed the farmers accidentally killed their own profits by glutting the market with corn and driving the price down. I think it was called the Freedom to Farm act or something. The big oil companies, being much more oganized, did not commit a similar error. I will again refer you to the 2001 FTC report which found they colluded to artificially inflate price by intentionally limiting refinement capacity.

But I'm not gonna quibble over details anymore. The point is this: it is absurd to blame the environmental movement for limitations in US refinement capacity. To do so displays inadequate knowledge of a much more complicated situation.

Re: Gas prices expected to soar past $3/gallon
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]
I don't think you understand how limiting refinement capacity can impact price so let me explain it again. By operating at full capacity no reserve supplies are accumulated, which keeps the price high. More oil going into the marketplace would bring the price down. [/QUOTE]

once again, more oil isn't going into the marketplace, it'd be more refined fuels. Thats why oil prices haven't shot up at the pace of gas prices. If you think the envirnmentalist WANT more refineries or power plants, that's just wrong. Some groups are especially vocal about lobbying against any such legislation. To totally ignore that shows inadequate knowledge of current and ongoing political realities.

and farmers have been paid NOT to farm for decades. The demand for fuel and energy far outpaces the supply for food, and the supply is lower. I'm not sure where you got your figure of $3 billion for a refinery, but i'd sure like to see that math.