Two major concerns
 

The two areas I'm concerned about as we head into the regular season are turnovers and penalties. Two areas that plagued us last year and continue to raise their ugly heads this preseason.

Some of it you can chalk up to the backups/rookies playing, but it seems like these are two areas that could be problematic all year for us.

How concerned should we be? Will things settle down once things get rolling and the backups aren't seeing as much playing time?

I wish we had a breakdown of penalties and turnovers committed by the starting units compared to the backups. It might help put things in perspective.

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Honestly, I think it's more of a back-up/preseason thing. We'll find out for sure in about 10 days.

But here's the thing, last year a lot of our penalties were things like motion, false start, delay of game, holding. I don't think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Mr. Dockery has not one penalty called on him this pre-season and Jansen has only one. The offensive line is really focused! So it seems like these are very correctable penalties - mainly special teams and a few illegal contact downfield by DBs.

Re: Two major concerns
 

If memory serves me right, I think we've had only 4 turnovers by the starting units. All of them being Ramsey's 4 INTs. The good news is, he's gotten better and better as the preseason has gone on. Last night he took the sack rather than trying to force something that wasn't there. Those were, without a doubt, coverage sacks.

Penalties are purely disciplinary. The penalties on special teams that were committed seemed to be just a bad game. The people who committed them (Thrash namely) are usually great special teams guys. I hope that was just a fluke last night. As far as the offense and defense was concerned, both starting units did fairly well penalty-wise.

Re: Two major concerns
 

Yeah, penalties killed us last night, but I also didn't see many from either the starting offense or the starting defense. It was mainly special teams. I couldn't believe some of the stupid blocks in the back and holding penalties they committed. I don't remember so many special teams penalties in the other games, so I hope it is because we were letting some of the younger guys play more.

I personally think things will settle down, but if they don't it will be another long season marching backwards out of the redzone due to penalties.

As far as turnovers go, Ramsey looked indecisive in the pocket, but at least he didn't throw an interception or fumble, especially since our starting field position was regularly poor due to special teams penalties. Also, the Ravens have a great secondary, so it could be they were just shutting our receivers down. Hard to tell from the poor camera angles and replays from Redskins.comTV. Either way, the game would have gone completely different had we kept running Portis at them regularly. The few plays he had, he looked good. In a real game that would have opened up the passing a bit more.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=CooleyAsCanBe]Yeah, penalties killed us last night, but I also didn't see many from either the starting offense or the starting defense. It was mainly special teams. I couldn't believe some of the stupid blocks in the back and holding penalties they committed. I don't remember so many special teams penalties in the other games, so I hope it is because we were letting some of the younger guys play more.

I personally think things will settle down, but if they don't it will be another long season marching backwards out of the redzone due to penalties.

As far as turnovers go, Ramsey looked indecisive in the pocket, but at least he didn't throw an interception or fumble, especially since our starting field position was regularly poor due to special teams penalties. Also, the Ravens have a great secondary, so it could be they were just shutting our receivers down. Hard to tell from the poor camera angles and replays from Redskins.comTV. Either way, the game would have gone completely different had we kept running Portis at them regularly. The few plays he had, he looked good. In a real game that would have opened up the passing a bit more.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey did looked a little indecisive...Brunell on the other hand.....naw, I won't even go there:)

Re: Two major concerns
 

I'd rather Ramsey take the occasional sack than force a throw and get picked. Better yet throw it away.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]If memory serves me right[/QUOTE]
Start calling you Chairman Kaga from Iron Chef.

I think the penalties will lessen once the season starts. However, the turnovers to worry me. At least 2 of Ramsey's 4 picks were extremely ill-advised, and worries me that those mistakes will continue.

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Hahahahaha! I thought I was the only one who watched that show.

"Today's secret ingredient is... KISS MY ASS." (a clip from Best Week Ever)

Re: Two major concerns
 

Iron Chef is awesome, but I only watch it occasionally, as it butts up against Family Guy and me falling asleep.

I just love how it's dubbed though...it's hilarious.

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Yeah, I want Iron Chef before I fall asleep because I love the pure 80s clothes they wear.

And they make the nastiest things I've ever seen. And sadly, I know all the Iron Chef's by name. Iron Chef Chen Kenichi is a bad ass.

Re: Two major concerns
 

I'm not worried about Portis or Betts fumbling very often. I am worried about Broughton fumbling if he gets goalline carries. The question is, will he even get goalline carries? Because he's been fumbling, I'll bet Gibbs lets Portis try early in the season, since he has bulked up a little bit. If that doesn't work, he'd probably try Betts.

I'm very concerned about the INT rate of Ramsey. If you add up all of Ramsey's playing time in the 4 preseason games, it probably amounts to close to 60 minutes of action. And he threw 4 picks in that time. 4 picks over the course of one NFL game would certainly kill us every week. The underthrowing of receivers is what bothers me most, I need to see deep accuracy. I'd be very worried about INTs and it's why a small small part of me wants to see Brunell starting.

Penalties, I'm not so concerned about penalties. Most of those were committed by backups. I don't see our starting offensive line having much trouble during the season.

Re: Two major concerns
 

Thing to remember is Ramsey likely won't be throwing as much.

With the way Portis and Betts have run this preseason and the offensive line is blowing people off the ball, look for a total smashmouth attack.

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Not that I'm advocating Brunell as the starter, but he was ridiculously accurate last night. If Ramsey falters in the first four or five games, Brunell very well might be the man for the job.

Re: Two major concerns
 

And look at the guys we have been running against. These are the best defenses in the league and we are moving the ball well.

I think that Ramsey has played outside of his comfort zone during the preseason. He played well down the strech last year and I don't believe he has regressed. A run first mentality will definitaly help the passing game but I think that the passing game will come into it's own around the 6th game or so. We have a defense that should provide us some comfort while waiting for the chemistry to fully develop.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'd rather Ramsey take the occasional sack than force a throw and get picked. Better yet throw it away.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but the only problem is it is hard to throw it away when a blitzer is in your junk within three seconds and you are still in the pocket.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Yeah, but the only problem is it is hard to throw it away when a blitzer is in your junk within three seconds and you are still in the pocket.[/QUOTE]

Good Point. In fact, he may even have been trying to throw it away last week vs Pittsburgh and just couldnt get a good release. I hate sacks, but I hate INT's more. Either way, as long as hes not forcing stupid throws, its better for the team.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=jermus22]Not that I'm advocating Brunell as the starter, but he was ridiculously accurate last night. If Ramsey falters in the first four or five games, Brunell very well might be the man for the job.[/QUOTE]

Not only was he accurate, but he had some zip on the ball. I mean the ball was humming a few times. The guy must have dipped his arm in some Gatorade or something!!

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]And look at the guys we have been running against. These are the best defenses in the league and we are moving the ball well.

I think that Ramsey has played outside of his comfort zone during the preseason. He played well down the strech last year and I don't believe he has regressed. A run first mentality will definitaly help the passing game but I think that the passing game will come into it's own around the 6th game or so. We have a defense that should provide us some comfort while waiting for the chemistry to fully develop.[/QUOTE]

I agree that we are a run first team, but if teams don't take away Portis then they are absolutely insane. Ramsey will have to throw to win and that is where we are in trouble. Ramsey will lose more games than he wins for us. And we can make all the excuses we want for Ramsey but he has not looked good at all (2 TD's, 4 INT's). We don't have time for the passing game to click....The defense ranked #1 in the NFC last year and we couldn't win more than 6 games. Anyway........sorry for all the negativity but I hate Ramsey and pray that I am wrong about him.

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[QUOTE=12thMan]Not only was he accurate, but he had some zip on the ball. I mean the ball was humming a few times. The guy must have dipped his arm in some Gatorade or something!![/QUOTE]

Yeah.... I posted the same observation in the game thread. Brunell is looking so confident and his passes are super accurate so far this preseason. Whereas, Ramsey is definitely hesitant and not throwing the ball with any zip on it at all. Why is he all of a sudden taking so much off his passes? No wonder he keeps underthrowing the receivers so bad on the longer passes.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=exit0]Yeah.... I posted the same observation in the game thread. Brunell is looking so confident and his passes are super accurate so far this preseason. Whereas, Ramsey is definitely hesitant and not throwing the ball with any zip on it at all. Why is he all of a sudden taking so much off his passes? No wonder he keeps underthrowing the receivers so bad on the longer passes.[/QUOTE]

Well Ramsey has a new QB coach, Bill Musgrave. I think he's been working with him putting more touch on his passes, but I think Ramsey also needs some more time with his receivers.

Between he and Brunell, I feel Brunell has had the better preseason.

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[QUOTE=Schneed10]I'm very concerned about the INT rate of Ramsey. If you add up all of Ramsey's playing time in the 4 preseason games, it probably amounts to close to 60 minutes of action. And he threw 4 picks in that time. 4 picks over the course of one NFL game would certainly kill us every week. [/QUOTE]


I don't really think you can project those stats over a game. There's just so many variables and he had a definite progression throughout the course of the preseason...

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]I don't really think you can project those stats over a game. There's just so many variables and he had a definite progression throughout the course of the preseason...[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on that one, Bleed. I mean if that were the case Portis would have rushed for damn near 200 yds in a couple of games so far.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]I agree with you on that one, Bleed. I mean if that were the case Portis would have rushed for damn near 200 yds in a couple of games so far.[/QUOTE]

Damn... if only it could happen... :biggthump

Re: Two major concerns
 

If this wasn't the legend Joe Gibbs, I honestly would be far more critical of what I see as the same problems that seem to prevent this team from rising from the depths of mediocricy to dominance. The wideout positions are not balanced with size and speed. In the red zone, we NEED a big receiver who can go up and grab the ball in the endzone. Cooley at 6'3" is a Halfback/Tightend and is a big target but he is the only legitimate target. Forget about Dyson, it ain't happening. Gibbs was never sold on McCants, so why not find several big rookies or free agents to replace him. Instead we have one "has been" and the smurfs children.

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I realize that Ramsey is neither Brady or Manning, but the Pats and Colts don't have "big, red zone threats"

The top receivers for both Indy and NE are all 6 feet or under. I'm not counting David Terrell because he just joined the Pats and they've done just fine without him the past few years

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What about Royal? He caught 4 TDs last year and he should be in the same kind of role this year.

Right on, a -8 turnover ratio and 10 penalties a game will land us at 6-10 again.....
 

But if Patrick protects the ball and the O-Line gets nasty, maybe we can beat the eagles this year and get back to respectability.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What about Royal? He caught 4 TDs last year and he should be in the same kind of role this year.[/QUOTE]

I think Royal will have big a impact this year. Wach for him down in the red-zone as teams key in on Cooley.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What about Royal? He caught 4 TDs last year and he should be in the same kind of role this year.[/QUOTE]

Royal just can't stay healthy. Besides we need maximum protection for Ramsey.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I realize that Ramsey is neither Brady or Manning, but the Pats and Colts don't have "big, red zone threats"

The top receivers for both Indy and NE are all 6 feet or under. I'm not counting David Terrell because he just joined the Pats and they've done just fine without him the past few years[/QUOTE]

The thing with Ramsey is he has thrown more INTs intended for Coles last year and Moss this year, that I'm convinced his throwing ability maybe limited to bigger WRs like Royal,Cooley especially in the redzone. I am aware that timing is essential and Ramsey is not there yet.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I realize that Ramsey is neither Brady or Manning, but the Pats and Colts don't have "big, red zone threats"

The top receivers for both Indy and NE are all 6 feet or under. I'm not counting David Terrell because he just joined the Pats and they've done just fine without him the past few years[/QUOTE]

Look at the teams in the NFC East, all have big targets and they are successful with them. T.O., Burress, K.Johnson. The reason we have not been in the playoffs is because we have not won in our division. We have only split with the Giants for the last three or four seasons. Speed and size is a MUST in our division so why limit our offensive targets with guys who Ramsey seems to struggle throwing the ball to? If Gibbs puts bigger targets around Ramsey, his completion rating will go up. I expect far more from our running game than I do from our passing game for that reason.

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[QUOTE=SUNRA]Look at the teams in the NFC East, all have big targets and they are successful with them. T.O., Burress, K.Johnson. The reason we have not been in the playoffs is because we have not won in our division. We have only split with the Giants for the last three or four seasons. Speed and size is a MUST in our division so why limit our offensive targets with guys who Ramsey seems to struggle throwing the ball to? If Gibbs puts bigger targets around Ramsey, his completion rating will go up. I expect far more from our running game than I do from our passing game for that reason.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. T.O. is in a league all by himself, he's more than just a big receiver. So it's not like us having McCants would be the same as having TO. Before him, Philly's "big" receiver was Pinkston. True, he had a good year in 2002, but I would say that the Eagles pretty much won in spite of him. Plax has yet to play a regular season game with the Giants, so you can't already say that they are successful with him. And Key has just played one season with the Cowboys, a season in which they finished 6-10. Plus we're don't stop big receivers with big receivers of our own, we stop them with big (and talented) defensive backs. Enter Shawn Springs and Carlos Rogers

Re: Two major concerns
 

Gibbs seems pretty confident in the set of WRs he has.

I guess time will tell if our lack of a "big" WR will negatively impact the passing game.

All I know is we've had our share of big WRs in the past, and it didn't put us in the playoffs.

There's much more that goes into a successful passing game and redzone offense than just having big targets.

Re: Two major concerns
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. T.O. is in a league all by himself, he's more than just a big receiver. So it's not like us having McCants would be the same as having TO. Before him, Philly's "big" receiver was Pinkston. True, he had a good year in 2002, but I would say that the Eagles pretty much won in spite of him. Plax has yet to play a regular season game with the Giants, so you can't already say that they are successful with him. And Key has just played one season with the Cowboys, a season in which they finished 6-10. Plus we're don't stop big receivers with big receivers of our own, we stop them with big (and talented) defensive backs. Enter Shawn Springs and Carlos Rogers[/QUOTE]

We don't stop big WRs with WRs ? I think that's a given, but we aren't matching the defensive perfomance of our team with a strong effective offense, especially the passing game. What would you point to as the main reason for our inability to score last year?

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Gibbs seems pretty confident in the set of WRs he has.

I guess time will tell if our lack of a "big" WR will negatively impact the passing game.

All I know is we've had our share of big WRs in the past, and it didn't put us in the playoffs.

There's much more that goes into a successful passing game and redzone offense than just having big targets.[/QUOTE]

If Gibbs believes Ramsey is the QB for his offense, he cannot be comfortable with the receivers we have because Ramsey has struggled with all of them on the long pass. Especially in the redzone. The pass to Cooley was an example of what happens when your target is bigger than your defender. Gibbs has been wrong in the past and I'm afraid he made a terrible mistake in getting rid of all of the big targets because it limits the offenses ability to go over top with the pass and relies too much on speed. Our speedsters seem to be outrunning the pass. So maybe speed isn't a plus in Ramsey's case.

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[QUOTE=SUNRA]We don't stop big WRs with WRs ? I think that's a given, but we aren't matching the defensive perfomance of our team with a strong effective offense, especially the passing game. What would you point to as the main reason for our inability to score last year?[/QUOTE]

we had gardner, cooley, royal, and mccants, so our inability to score had nothing to do with height.

Why not wait till week 3 and see how its going, spinning in these circles of hate for weeks can't be healthy ;) the team will prove whether it matters, but the pats have won small, the skins in the past have won small and there's tons of other examples out there.

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I agree with That Guy!

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[QUOTE=That Guy]we had gardner, cooley, royal, and mccants, so our inability to score had nothing to do with height.

Why not wait till week 3 and see how its going, spinning in these circles of hate for weeks can't be healthy ;) the team will prove whether it matters, but the pats have won small, the skins in the past have won small and there's tons of other examples out there.[/QUOTE]

Spinning in circles of hate for weeks? It's called a point of view. If you don't agree with it, fine. If it takes you until week 3 to finally disgest the garbage you call an offense, just watch how many points the offense averages and why the they continue to make the same mistakes like not scoring more than 20 points. Different names, the same shame.

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[QUOTE=SUNRA]We don't stop big WRs with WRs ? I think that's a given, but we aren't matching the defensive perfomance of our team with a strong effective offense, especially the passing game. What would you point to as the main reason for our inability to score last year?[/QUOTE]

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but would it be right to say that you would have a preferred an receiving core of say Gardner, McCants and Muhsin Muhammad over Moss, Patten, and Thrash? Because of the height advantage they have.

I think there are many factors that contributed to our inability to score last year-poor clock management, costly penalties in or near the red zone, receivers dropping passes, receivers not getting separation, bad decisions by the QBs, etc.

What I think Moss and Patten give us that we didn't necessarily have last year are two sure-handed recievers who can make plays after the catch. I don't disagree with your notion that a big receiver helps in certain situations, but as been mentioned we have Cooley, Royal, even Koz and Sellers.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I don't want to put words in your mouth, but would it be right to say that you would have a preferred an receiving core of say Gardner, McCants and Muhsin Muhammad over Moss, Patten, and Thrash? Because of the height advantage they have.

I think there are many factors that contributed to our inability to score last year-poor clock management, costly penalties in or near the red zone, receivers dropping passes, receivers not getting separation, bad decisions by the QBs, etc.

What I think Moss and Patten give us that we didn't necessarily have last year are two sure-handed recievers who can make plays after the catch. I don't disagree with your notion that a big receiver helps in certain situations, but as been mentioned we have Cooley, Royal, even Koz and Sellers.[/QUOTE]

No, I think you missed my point. What I said was that if Gardner and McCants were not effective, then go get a free-agent or rookie to replace them in size to balance the offense more. Gibbs wasted several roster spots that could have been a better match for his offense other than Dyson. There were many rookies in the combine that could have been picked up. I'm watching the game against the Ravens on NFL Network, and it is frustrating to see little ass Antonio Brown dropping balls all over the place. I think Cooley is the best option we have, Royal doesn't stay healthy, and Sellers is not being used enough in Gibbs offensive package.

My ideal receivers would have been Santana Moss, Mike Williams or Braylon Edwards, James Thrash, Jimmy Farris, 6'4, 235 Vincent Jackson. Why in the hell did they cut a guy that caught 2 TDS in his time to shine?