The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I know this is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I will offer an apology to those who take offense, other than that to bad!

Gibbs states that we can't turn the ball over, and he wont tolerate it, Brunell 2004 9 TO's in 9 games. 2 of which directly lost us 2 games.

Gibbs now states that basically Brunells hamstring was the reason why he was as incompetent as he was last season, [maybe the worst QBing we have ever seen] yet he played his best game of the year 1 week after his supposed injury against dallas, and now we here all about his big time hammy.

Gibbs promises Brunell the starters position and gives him 9 games to play himself out of the starters position, given the fact that Brunell is a very experinced veteran who shouldn't need the same kind of a learning curve as let's say a young QB like Ramsey.

Ramsey is promised the starters job, after 1 early INT in his first regular season game with his new recieving corps he begins to move the ball up and down the field, at which point after 19 minutes Gibbs say's he's seen enough and has to go back to the teachers pet before Ramsey possibly does something to prevent him from getting Brunell back to starters status, so he doesn't look like an absolute incompetent fool for making that deal to get Brunell here in the first place. We cannot gloss over the fact that Gibbs cost his employer 42 million dollars, couple that with a system back like Portis for another 50 mil. that sure would motivate me to try and force a square peg through a round hole, imagine having to tell your employer you just cost them almost 100 mil and it's not working. And so long as Ramsey starts, thats what's being said.

Gibbs makes the move, which is probably the first I can remember a QB who is moving the ball, and if not for a lousy call would have just directed a TD drive, yanked, usually a QB is lifted because he can't move the ball, [unless your last name is Brunell] but the switch is made AFTER 1 QUARTER OF THE FIRST GAME OF THE SEASON, then to watch Brunell in almost 3 quarters of play muster up 3 field goals, and 70 yards of passing, and say this is my starter.

Somewhere Bobby Beathard is shaking his head.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Sooo, where is the hypocrosy???

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Where's the spell check?

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I'm just about done debating, we'll get our answers on the field.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]Sooo, where is the hypocrosy???[/QUOTE]
cuz brunell sucks and hes the starter when ramsey was better and he got benched
hes being a hipocrite because no one is aloud to suck except brunell

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

lots of Warpathers have shown their hypocrisy as well, absolutely screaming for Brunell's head last season and now gladly anointing it. or that seasons in the 1980s prove Gibb's infallibility but that last season proved nothing. or that preseason was meaningless but now matters over regular season performance, the list goes on and on.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Illdefined, you do realize that was last season, it's a different season/situation now?

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All this doesn't matter anymore, I am like Matty, done debating lets hope like hell the proof shows up on the field in due course.

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Well, let me get this straight.....have you ever said something to someone and then just simply changed your mind.

Besides, Gibbs never really got into why benched Ramsey in the first place. So unless we hear Gibbs state the reason(s) he benched Ramsey, everything we're saying is really speculation.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=steveo395]cuz brunell sucks and hes the starter when ramsey was better and he got benched
hes being a hipocrite because no one is aloud to suck except brunell[/QUOTE]

And why is that you say Brunell suck??

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[QUOTE=RedskinRat]Illdefined, you do realize that was last season, it's a different season/situation now?[/QUOTE]

yes, but thats the closest analog we have. same coaches, same schemes, and mostly the same players. did Mark Brunell get younger? last season is the most relevant thing we have, more than this year's preseason even and MUCH closer to the comparisons i've been hearing about Mark Rypien and Doug Williams. wha??

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

another tired debater..........

our focus should be on ragging on the Cryboys and their fans.......
This is Dallas week........

:dallas:

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but it's pretty sad that neither la73hof or D'Boyz (our designated Cowboy members) aren't even bothering to be here to trash talk us because we're doing it to ourselves.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I am glad somebody started this thread. I don't know how he can do this to Ramsey after giving Brunell all the time in the world, when e'body n their mama knew Brunell could'nt throw for crap. Even in the bears game he floated that pass which was called for pass interference. No wonder Ramsey is pissed n wants to be traded. This is ridiculous.
So far Gibbs has gone back on his word. The offense was doing well when Ramsey was in there. For Christs sake we even had a couple of 20+ yard plays. What is going on with Gibbs???

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

don't bother questioning. around here everything is answered by "The Gibbs Works In Mysterious Ways"

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Yeah, I thought for sure either D'Boyz or lahof73 would have written an essay by now.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]don't bother questioning. around here everything is answered by "The Gibbs Works In Mysterious Ways"[/QUOTE]


Your on a role today ill, your making me laugh! :laughing2

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]don't bother questioning. around here everything is answered by "The Gibbs Works In Mysterious Ways"[/QUOTE]

...feel free to use that as a sig anybody...

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]don't bother questioning. around here everything is answered by "The Gibbs Works In Mysterious Ways"[/QUOTE]

I don't understand what is so mysterious about "don't turn the ball over"???

Also phrased:
"We have to protect the ball"
"Turn overs lose games"
"Our guys know how the odds go down for winning when you turn the ball over once, and twice..."
"We have hammered on these guys that we cant turn the ball over. We may have to resort to something other than words"

Ramsey throws a good ball, but he has been looking more like Jeff George than Tom Brady. If you turn the ball over, you had better throw more TDs than ints AND fumbles. I agree that he deserved more time, but three drives and he loses the ball three times? That is ridiculous.

Guys, if Ramsey were to start against Dallas after what he did against the Bears, Parcells would blitz him all night and we may not have a Ramsey by the end of the game.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

simply because one thing does take precedence over not turning the ball over. winning.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]simply because one thing does take precedence over not turning the ball over. winning.[/QUOTE]

Winning teams don't turn the ball over.

If I'm wrong, show me some proof.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Winning teams don't turn the ball over.

If I'm wrong, show me some proof.[/QUOTE]

do you need proof Ramsey won more regular season games than Brunell? does that count for anything or is it just turnovers and preseason completion ratio that count?

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]I don't understand what is so mysterious about "don't turn the ball over"???

Also phrased:
"We have to protect the ball"
"Turn overs lose games"
"Our guys know how the odds go down for winning when you turn the ball over once, and twice..."
"We have hammered on these guys that we cant turn the ball over. We may have to resort to something other than words"

Ramsey throws a good ball, but he has been looking more like Jeff George than Tom Brady. If you turn the ball over, you had better throw more TDs than ints AND fumbles. I agree that he deserved more time, but three drives and he loses the ball three times? That is ridiculous.

Guys, if Ramsey were to start against Dallas after what he did against the Bears, Parcells would blitz him all night and we may not have a Ramsey by the end of the game.[/QUOTE]

the thing is they BOTH turned it over a lot last year :/ It just seems weird how loyal he seems to be to brunell specificly, but the strange part is how he declared ramsey his undisputed starter for so long (when he absolutely didn't have to) and then flipped so suddenly (we all knew/know he loves brunell too much, but most thought he'd give ramsey more than 19 minutes to see what he could do).

Radio's been talking about it all day, lots of people are upset, not so much over ramsey as much as over the sudden change (though somewhat expected i guess). I'm just kinda bummed cause i don't see brunell leading us up and onwards... I had no gaurantees ramsey could do that either, but it seemed more likely.

We'll see how brunell does, but what happens if he stinks it up and throws 2ints in 20 minutes? campbell? back to ramsey? my guess is gibbs would just leave him in, and that's really what's sorta chapping my ass :(

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

I was trying to figure out how some of you could be so against Brunell taking over for Ramsey as the starter, and then it hit me you guys don't bother to watch the games. Because if you had then you would come to the same conclusion that Coach Gibbs did. Ramsey, while full of potential just can't seem to get in rythem. He has constantly turned the ball over. He couldn't even get through the 1st posession without giving up the ball and valuable field position. Now I know what you Brunell detractors are going to say... Brunell was going against 2nd & 3rd team players in the preseason. And your right. But the important thing about the way he played was his accuracy. It doesn't matter whether Champ Bailey or Beatle Bailey is in coverage If Brunell's passes are on target hiting our receivers in stride and Ramsey's passes are either under thrown and picked off or over thrown to a WR that has 2 steps on his man , it is clear which QB is ready to lead the team right now and which one needs to wait his turn. With all that said, I am a big Patrick Ramsey Fan. I think he is one of the gutsiest players I have ever seen. I just believe that it doesn't make sense to let patrick play himself into a rythem when we haven't seen any consistancy to build on. I hope that Patrick can hang in there because he might get another chance to prove himself.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Since people are trying desperately to reduce this QB decision to a simple yes/no status, let me try something here.

This is 2005 - not 2004. We have a very small data set to work with since there has been only one game thusfar, but if I remember correctly the Redskins did not have 9 points on the board when Brunell came into the game. So he did not "preserve a win", he was the QB on the field when the winning points showed up.

Look, football is a team game so neither QB won the Bears' game by himself - nor will any one player lose many games by himself. But if "winning is what matters" - and you know that I fundamentally believe that it is - then in 2005, Mark Brunell is more about winning than Patrick Ramsey is. That was not the case in 2004 to be sure, but then again, it is 2005...

Oh, and by the way, unless Patrick Ramsey goes AWOL - which would REALLY make him desirable on the trade/free agent market :banghead: - he is not going to be traded anywhere this year. He can demand or not demand to be traded; he's here for the season.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

*Yawn*

I'm with Matty....let the story unfold on the field. I'm tired of the debating between two medicore QBs.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Any member of this board who believes he is more able than Gibbs to judge the relative merits of Brunell and Ramsey is seriously delusional and really ought to seek professional psychiatric help.

You know who you are. :)

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=Dana87]I was trying to figure out how some of you could be so against Brunell taking over for Ramsey as the starter, and then it hit me you guys don't bother to watch the games. Because if you had then you would come to the same conclusion that Coach Gibbs did. [/QUOTE]

Please! stopping telling people what they think and calling people who disagree stupid. It's getting old.

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The one thing that all the rabid Ramsey fanatics keeping bringing up is "last year Ramsey played better and won more games than Brunell."
Well the truth is the Redskins were 3-6 when Ramsey took over as starting QB, and the Redskins playoff hopes were pretty much all gone. There was no immediate pressure on Ramsey to win a couple of games and get us in the playoffs. The playoff pressure was gone.
Ramsey has proven time and again that when the pressure is on he falls apart. In the 2004 preseason when the competition for QB was open and the pressure was on, Ramsey played his worst ever as a Skin.
In 2005 preseason, Ramsey was named the starter and the pressure was on again for Ramsey to take us to the playoffs, but yet again Ramsey played his worst football as a Skin.
I have said this several times on TWP, Ramsey besides his slow foot work, inability to elude the rush, bad decisions with the ball, holds on to the ball to long, gets sacked too much and turnovering the ball too much, his biggest weakness is he does not step up in the clutch. He cannot handle the pressure.
In his four years as a Redskin he has shown flashes... that is all.
I never understood some of the posts of years pasts that have compared the great Ramsey to Brett Farve etc. etc.
Now those folks are the ones that are upset about Ramsey getting benched.
The reality that ramsey is not very good right now and was benched because of it hurts some folks. That is understandable.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

what did Brunell show outside of Jacksonville and the preseasons? anybody??

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Actually, last year, the playoffs were still very much into our plans up until Dallas beat us in the last 30 seconds of the second meeting. If we had beaten the Cowboys, we would have been in the playoffs. I'm also considering the fact that we beat Minnesota last year. So, I wouldn't necessarily say the playoffs were out of the question in Ramsey was inserted into the lineup.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]what did Brunell show outside of Jacksonville and the preseasons? anybody??[/QUOTE]

The one thing the Ramsey loyal fans fail to see is it not about Brunell. It is about Ramsey and his inability to play well consistantly. Ramsey was benched for poor play period. If we had another 2nd stringer it would be them starting right now and not Brunell.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Actually, last year, the playoffs were still very much into our plans up until Dallas beat us in the last 30 seconds of the second meeting. If we had beaten the Cowboys, we would have been in the playoffs. I'm also considering the fact that we beat Minnesota last year. So, I wouldn't necessarily say the playoffs were out of the question in Ramsey was inserted into the lineup.[/QUOTE]

We were 3-6 and played like shit. Do you really honestly think we were going to make it into the playoffs? Regardless of the math of the crappy NFC east. What, one of the playoff teams in the NFC was the first .500 team to ever make it to the playoffs...in NFL history!

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[QUOTE=Defensewins]The one thing the Ramsey loyal fans fail to see is it not about Brunell. It is about Ramsey and his inability to play well consistantly. Ramsey was benched for poor play period. If we had another 2nd stringer it would be them starting right now and not Brunell.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think that is the real reason. If anything, the only other QB Gibbs has is Brunell. He obviously (and I don't blame him) doesn't wanna use Campbell too early.

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

Here's what I think about all this hypocrisy talk:

Gibbs named PR the starter in the offseason so he'd gain confidence, work hard all offseason, and not be looking over his shoulder. How did he respond? With happy feet, bad reads, and turnovers. He also had trouble hitting the deep ball--I mean hitting WRs in stride down the field. His WRs made some nice plays coming back to the ball and with RAC, mostly. He held the ball too long and took sacks at bad times. And he NEVER LOOKED COMFORTABLE. I was a PR supporter, but I saw that and hoped it would change. It certainly hadn't in quarter #1 AT HOME AGAINST THE WEAK ASS BEARS. When was it going to happen, in Dallas? Denver? When?

Gibbs gave the guy six months as the starter--but he didn't look like it in practice, in scrimmages, in preseason games, and last sunday. Meanwhile, Brunnell looked like a different guy--we all saw that as well. THis isn't the first time a "bench Ramsey, Play Brunnell" discussion has gone on here, folks. So Gibbs re-evaluated the situation after the game, took everything into account, and made the switch. Is that hypocrisy?

No one in the NFL is guaranteed anything. Sure, if you're Peyton Manning or Donovan or someone, you'll get the benefit of the doubt. But PR has not earned that respect. He's been given lots of chances, IMO, and never stepped up. Y'all want to say that's Gibbs fault--but PR played his role in this too. Go back and look at his posture in the pocket on Sunday. Was he confortable? And check out his long incomplete pass to Cooley: One, it was overthrown; Two, Sanatana Moss had blown by single coverage on the otherside, and Ramsey NEVER SAW HIM! And, finally, check out the INT. What the F*** happens on that play? Is that Gibbs being a hypocrite? Or is that PR throwing away his chance to start?

One last point: Are you all really mad that Gibbs pulled Ramsey, and allegendly went back on his word, or are you just mad because you think Brunnell sucks? My guess is that you are mad becuase you HATE Brunnell after last year. I have sympathy with that, but thats a completely different point. It might make Gibbs dumb to play Brunnell, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite.

Gibbs said NO TURNOVERS. What did PR do after that was said? That was fair warning.

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its not about Brunell? its about anybody who's next because those 20 minutes were so horrid? and when Brunell gets his first turnover, does it go to Campbell? Ramsey? probably not huh. Gibbs has his favorites, there's no denying it.

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I don't want to get into any name calling or anything, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so here's mine. I was at the game & just went back & watched the broadcast that I tivo'd to make sure I saw it all. More than anything, I feel bad for Patrick Ramsey. I feel like Gibbs is giving him a raw deal, and ultimately I feel like he is making a huge mistake. Trust me, if I'm wrong & Brunell turns out to be the right choice I will absolutely feel like a Munson. However, P.R. in my opinion looked pretty good & getting better before Briggs made an absolutely unmistakable illegal-hit. Brunell didn't look like anything special to me. I'm not looking at this in any other way than as a man, and that is why I feel Gibbs is in the wrong. Tear me apart if you want, thats just my two-cents. In the end we're all just huge fans of a team I so desperately want to see back in the legendary status it deserves.

hail.

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[QUOTE=Defensewins]We were 3-6 and played like shit. Do you really honestly think we were going to make it into the playoffs? Regardless of the math of the crappy NFC east. What, one of the playoff teams in the NFC was the first .500 team to ever make it to the playoffs...in NFL history![/QUOTE]

Yes - were in the playoffs if had hung on to beat the Cowboys and knowing we had beat the Vikings the following week. That was fact. That was all we had to do to make the playoffs.

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Right about now I am ready to give the rookie Campbell a whack at it...what the hell, why not? Giibbs thinks Ramsey can't cut the cake anymore and Brunell can? Who knows, maybe "Scott Brunell" (not sure how many of you picked that up on the commentators calling him by the wrong name) we will all be eating a little crow and "Scott" (roflmao) will actually pick up and play like a professional. Lets just say I am not holding my breath.

Skins 4 life

Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy!
 

brunnel is better on his feet and won't make stupid mistakes like Ramsey. This next game is by far the most important game for us and we better play it as such.