Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

We are in the midst of a crisis in Redskins Nation. Never before have I seen such in-fighting after A WIN! Its obvious that our team is in turmoil. That being said, at what point for each of you would you actually call for a coaching change? Gibbs got a pass his first season. But in his second season Gibbs has bungled a couple of things, i.e. the trading of draft picks for Campbell, the Ramsey is my starter, etc. So here is the question: What is [b][u]your breaking point?[/u][/b] For me, if we finish this season with 6 wins or less, given the way Gibbs has handled this team, that would be enough to call for the Great One's resignation. Thoughts? Again, Im not picking a fight with the Gibbs supporters, Im merely asking when in your opinion what scenario would call for a coaching change.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

The end of his contract. Period.

We need continuity more than anything else. Three to four years of it regardless of record.

We have so much mediocrity to over come- it takes time.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

A coaching change? Not until he wants to walk out, thats when you request a change.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]We are in the midst of a crisis in Redskins Nation. Never before have I seen such in-fighting after A WIN! Its obvious that our team is in turmoil. That being said, at what point for each of you would you actually call for a coaching change? Gibbs got a pass his first season. But in his second season Gibbs has bungled a couple of things, i.e. the trading of draft picks for Campbell, the Ramsey is my starter, etc. So here is the question: What is [b][u]your breaking point?[/u][/b] For me, if we finish this season with 6 wins or less, given the way Gibbs has handled this team, that would be enough to call for the Great One's resignation. Thoughts? Again, Im not picking a fight with the Gibbs supporters, Im merely asking when in your opinion what scenario would call for a coaching change.[/QUOTE]

I can seperate my criticism of this move with my opinion of the coach. He signed a five year deal, and I believe that he will make the team better.

Though I don't agree with the handling of this switch, I believe the team will improve under his stewardship. The job is his, for as long as he feels he can help the team.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

I see a team on the rise! What crisis? Being Dolphin fan is a crisis!!

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

There is no breaking point for me. He holds the job as long as he wants it. An 0-16 season would not change my mind one bit...

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]There is no breaking point for me. He holds the job as long as he wants it. An 0-16 season would not change my mind one bit...[/QUOTE]


Well that at least wont happen this year :)

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

As long as he wants to be here.

Gibbs will know when to walk away. Snyder is not going to fire him.

Is a QB change really the end of the world? Must be for some people. Guess I didn't realize Ramsey was the 2nd coming of Montana.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]We are in the midst of a crisis in Redskins Nation. Never before have I seen such in-fighting after A WIN! Its obvious that our team is in turmoil. That being said, at what point for each of you would you actually call for a coaching change? Gibbs got a pass his first season. But in his second season Gibbs has bungled a couple of things, i.e. the trading of draft picks for Campbell, the Ramsey is my starter, etc. So here is the question: What is [b][u]your breaking point?[/u][/b] For me, if we finish this season with 6 wins or less, given the way Gibbs has handled this team, that would be enough to call for the Great One's resignation. Thoughts? Again, Im not picking a fight with the Gibbs supporters, Im merely asking when in your opinion what scenario would call for a coaching change.[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid to even think about those possibilities right now. Because to do so is to admit that even Joe Gibbs couldn't help this team. And if Joe can't, who can? Danny S. doesn't have any more rabbits he can pull out of his hat! If Joe resigns or if he plays out his contract and the team still hasn't been back to the playoffs during his 5 years, what do we do then? It's too frightening to even contemplate.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Here's another take on your question. I don't think that Snyder would ever consider firing Joe. So, if team continues with losing seasons, does anyone think that Joe would resign before his contract is up? In other words, what would be Joe's breaking point?

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]As long as he wants to be here.

Gibbs will know when to walk away. Snyder is not going to fire him.

Is a QB change really the end of the world? Must be for some people. Guess I didn't realize Ramsey was the 2nd coming of Montana.[/QUOTE]

Exactly Matty! Ramsey has shown very little improvement over the past three years. I don't think Brunnell is all that either, but its just a QB change, its really not that big of a deal when you didn't have an ace in the hole to begin with!

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

I don't know how you would say this is a team in crises. We are 1 & 0. We have to face the fact that Ramsey was turning the ball over way to often and he only threw for two touchdowns in about 7 quarters and turned the ball over about 6 times (that is including his playing time in pre and regular season). I still feel the Campbell trade was for our QB of the future if Ramsey did not step up. I do feel Ramsey was not given enough time but I'm not the coach. If Brunell does not guide us to some wins early I think we will see Campbell come in. That would give Gibbs 3 1/2 seasons with Campbell to take us to the SB. I feel he did sign a five year deal because that is how long he feels it will take to make a push for the SB and he should be given those five years.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Crisis???
Man, this whole QB thing is getting out of hand.
This is not a crisis for me, it the usual step when a player fails..you get rid of them, just like we got rid of Heath Shuler.
This is only a crisis for the devoted Ramsey fans. The ones that would rather fire Gibbs than get rid of Ramsey. The ones that want to see Ramsey come back on another team and beat us. You know who you are.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

we have a team without a qb, thats the only problem, trying to win now with a maxed cap and no solid choice at qb right now...

I hate to say it, but if we go 4-12 i'd have to consider it, unless we're throwing away the year for campbell to get experience.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

The fans may be in crisis, but I guarantee you the team is not.

They still have a job to do no matter who is behind center. I don't buy this myth that the team secretly wants Ramsey over Brunell.

The team wants to win no matter what. If Brunell produces and the team is winning all will be fine.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

As a "lady" skins fan, I believe more thought needs to be put into the fact that we are talking about "THE GREAT JOE GIBBS" here. Given time, Joe makes things happen. That is seen in everything he touches...the guy went to racing and made that work for crying out loud...it is only season two since he has come home. That is the biggest problem with our Skins team as is, there are too many changes and not enough time given to create a relationship of any kind be it coach, quarterback or otherwise. I am one of the Skins fans that was rooting for Patrick too but screw that, it's time to win football games now and if Mr. Gibbs feels Brunnell can get the job done, then he has my full support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

And mine...

I was reading something in the paper today reminding us that the same thing happened to Rypien and he was taken aside and worked on his technique. Even though it's heavily implied, Gibbs didn't make any broad statements that Brunell would be the starter for the foreseable future. I think he wants to work with Ramsey, and he feels that given how Brunell performed last year against the Cowboys, that he might be a good person to start this one.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

I had so much respect for Joe, before he made this last personnel move with Ramsey. Joe is a players coach, but I think he went against his character/moral beliefs with this decision. There is a definite inhouse problem arising in the skins lockerroom. I think that if the skins go 6-10 again or less; yes I think the big $$ man will go to Joe. I think that his conservative play calling and decision making is not at that Hall Fame level anymore. Ramsey has proven his commitment to the team (by being on his back so much from being sacked or hit every other play); Joe broke his commitment to Patrick. The truth is that Joe and Skins leadership have a vision to put Campbell in the starting Chair in the next year or so. Don't be surprised by the middle of the season that Ramsey is dropped to #3 on QB Depth Chart.

J



[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]We are in the midst of a crisis in Redskins Nation. Never before have I seen such in-fighting after A WIN! Its obvious that our team is in turmoil. That being said, at what point for each of you would you actually call for a coaching change? Gibbs got a pass his first season. But in his second season Gibbs has bungled a couple of things, i.e. the trading of draft picks for Campbell, the Ramsey is my starter, etc. So here is the question: What is [b][u]your breaking point?[/u][/b] For me, if we finish this season with 6 wins or less, given the way Gibbs has handled this team, that would be enough to call for the Great One's resignation. Thoughts? Again, Im not picking a fight with the Gibbs supporters, Im merely asking when in your opinion what scenario would call for a coaching change.[/QUOTE]

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Here's the question you have to ask yourself:

What other coaching candidate out there would be an upgrade over Joe Gibbs?

My answer: nobody. In fact, I wouldn't trade Gibbs for anybody, employed or not. I'd call Belichik his equal. Parcells is good too, though I hate his guts.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

I hate it when the Cowboys win. It looks at though Parcells has been feasting on shit all game.

He has the most shit-eating grin I've ever seen.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]Here's the question you have to ask yourself:

What other coaching candidate out there would be an upgrade over Joe Gibbs?

My answer: nobody. In fact, I wouldn't trade Gibbs for anybody, employed or not. I'd call Belichik his equal. Parcells is good too, though I hate his guts.[/QUOTE]
I love Joe Gibbs, and would take a bullet for him without hesitation.

That being said, if Belicheck wanted to come here, I would throw a wing-ding of a retirement party for our Hall of Famer.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]I love Joe Gibbs, and would take a bullet for him without hesitation.

That being said, if Belicheck wanted to come here, I would throw a wing-ding of a retirement party for our Hall of Famer.[/QUOTE]

LMAO!!!!!

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Hahahahahahaha!

Even with party hats?

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]There is no breaking point for me. He holds the job as long as he wants it. An 0-16 season would not change my mind one bit...[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

My breaking point is soon. The problem I have is the continuation of incompetence that began with Gibbs' first personal move out of retirement: trading a 3rd rounder and giving 43 million to a washed up qb who was about to be cut anyway. It continued when we gave up an unnecessary second rounder to get Portis; when we retained Brunell as starter for nine games last year; when we squandered one of the league's best defenses with an anemic vanilla offense; when we traded three picks for an at best second round qb. And it continues. "Trust in gibbs" is rapidly losing its cachet.

Look, the problem is not that Ramsey is so great - that he's Joe Montana. I could even get with Brunell starting over Ramsey if it was handled the right way (see other posts for such scenarios). The problem is the obvious incompetence with which this transition has been negotiated. Starting Patrick through preseason when it is obvious - at least to me - that Gibbs had designs on inserting Brunell at the first possible opportunity (that has to be the case because Ramsey played better than at any point during the preseason and still got yanked). This has all already been talked about ad nauseum. Anyway, I still think we can win some games. Or maybe I just hope we can; hard to tell anymore. But if we have to give up a top 1st round draft pick to Denver next year, s--t is really gonna hit the fan.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Quotes from some NFL scouts and a personnel director cited in a Washington Times article. Perhaps this'll make it clearer to some who are clamoring for Ramsey to be the starter.

"Based on what I saw in the preseason, I thought Brunell was doing better, and I talked to other scouts and they were saying the same kinds of things," an NFC scout said. "But they didn't pull the cord on [Ramsey]. They wasted a lot of time in the preseason by not doing that."
Said the personnel director: "Sometimes, Ramsey looks like a first-round pick, no question. But he's the type of player where there's no gray area. He's either going good or he's falling off a cliff. They replaced him with a guy that doesn't turn the ball over.
"Brunell's going to manage the game for Joe. If they don't turn it over, they're pretty much going to win the game because they'll get to work with a short field with that defense. He can still throw and he looks more comfortable this year -- that's obvious. But the big thing is he doesn't panic under duress and throw the pick."

[url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20050914-120154-2283r.htm[/url]

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine]Quotes from some NFL scouts and a personnel director cited in a Washington Times article. Perhaps this'll make it clearer to some who are clamoring for Ramsey to be the starter.

"Based on what I saw in the preseason, I thought Brunell was doing better, and I talked to other scouts and they were saying the same kinds of things," an NFC scout said. "But they didn't pull the cord on [Ramsey]. They wasted a lot of time in the preseason by not doing that."
Said the personnel director: "Sometimes, Ramsey looks like a first-round pick, no question. But he's the type of player where there's no gray area. He's either going good or he's falling off a cliff. They replaced him with a guy that doesn't turn the ball over.
"Brunell's going to manage the game for Joe. If they don't turn it over, they're pretty much going to win the game because they'll get to work with a short field with that defense. He can still throw and he looks more comfortable this year -- that's obvious. But the big thing is he doesn't panic under duress and throw the pick."

[url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20050914-120154-2283r.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

That article makes me fell better about the switch. I just want to see us score in the red zone

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=Kope]That article makes me fell better about the switch. I just want to see us score in the red zone[/QUOTE]

you said it. just winning with conservative play and field goals is not the way to go (as we saw in 2004) and especially now with our main kicker out!!

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Coach Gibbs will have my support as long as he wants the job. What would be my breaking point ... if Coach Gibbs were physically unable to perform his duties.

I, the team fan, support my Coach as the perennial 12th man of this squad. He is the Skipper of this ship and I will not question his authority or decisions. I will support him to the best of my ability.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

My guess is that younger redskins fans that do not have an emotional bond with Gibbs from back in the 80's will be much quicker to run Gibbs out of town than a little bit older fan who was around for the good years. I have been a skins fan since the 70's so my Joe Gibbs breaking point leash is about as long as beltway...

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

5 years is his point and he won't be broken.
He said no matter what he was here and would get the job done in 5 years.

I believe him.

In Gibbs I Trust
peace
mike

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

It's up to Gibbs. We've lacked continuity here--even with the current situation, we're putting a system in place, getting the people we want, and developing our chemistry and team leaders.

We don't have a first-rate QB right now, so the whole thing feels shakey, but most of the other pieces are falling into place, IMO. When the Campbell era begins in 2006, the pieces will really be in place. Joe will guide the team back to dominance. This year there will be ups and downs, depending on QB play and getting the redzone offense to work. We have to sit tight and hang in there, people. Sometimes you have to "work through a process" to get better. That's what's happening now.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Gregg Williams won't wait for 5 years

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Good point. If we need continuity to succeed, how many of us truly believe Ramsey WOULD be here in a year or two REGARDLESS of how well he did this year? It's a contract year and we have one $43 million dollar QB and our first round draft pick sitting on the bench.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]Gregg Williams won't wait for 5 years[/QUOTE]

What makes you say that?

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]Gregg Williams won't wait for 5 years[/QUOTE]

Then he won't be a Head Coach in Washington unless Gibbs gets another ring and hands it over.

peace

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]What makes you say that?[/QUOTE]

just because too many other teams will want him and throw everything at him to get him.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]Exactly Matty! Ramsey has shown very little improvement over the past three years. I don't think Brunnell is all that either, but its just a QB change, its really not that big of a deal when you didn't have an ace in the hole to begin with![/QUOTE]


No improvement huh, how did he finish last season? Must have been pretty good for Gibbs to come out and say immediatly Patricks my starter, how did he look against the giants and the vikings, pretty good? He would have finally beat'in the boys as well if it wasen't for Gibbs and his play calling down the stretch.

We need continuity as a team, what do you think this QB change is doing for that?

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

To me, crunch time for the Washington Redskins is now. We are only competitive thanks to our D. Our D is only good because of the scheming and coaching of Gregg Williams. Once the D goes, we are toast. Williams will not be here much longer. Yes, he had a tough time of it in Buffalo, but he will be one of the most sought after coaches for a HC job next offseason if our D is again in the top 5. I am a fan of the Skins since 1981, and normally Gibbs would get a huge leash in my opinion as a Head Coach. The problem is, this time around Gibbs isn't just wearing the Head Coach cap, he's calling the shots on personnel as well, and we have been giving away draft picks like they were candy at Halloween. Look at the Eagles and the Pats, great teams are built through the draft, those mid round picks especially are vital. When you take into consideration Gibbs total job performance, he's leash has to be shorter. Throw in this last debacle and I just don't know.

Re: Soooo, for each of us, what is the breaking point for Gibbs?
 

Gibbs will be until either the last day of his contract, or after winning his fourth championship. At that time, he will annoint Greg Williams as the new Skins head coach, or if he is gone already, probably Gregg Blache.

The team is in turmoil??? Only for the media and some of the fans. Brunell has a huge chip on his shoulder after his horrible performance last season, and will prove that he is still a good (not great, but solid) QB.

Also, what will all the people questioning Gibbs say if (WHEN) Brunell leads the Redskins to a victory over the Cowturds on Monday night???