Suspicious Minds?
 

A nice article in the post, maybe extracted about as much as they could out of some of the skins players about Ramsey, Cooley is speaking his mind, Jansen is trying to keep things under control [classy guy] but apparently 2 things have really ticked off Ramsey,

1- he feels that Gibbs was just looking for any excuse to yank him, doesn't sound like Joe is doing his job of instilling any kind of confidence in Ramsey whatsoever. It also sounds just like it looked, Gibbs has it in for Ramsey.

2- apparently one redskin who asked to remain anonomous said, that the reciever ran the wrong route on that INT which has only infuriated Ramsey more. sounds to me like he's being scapegoated because of the lack of understanding by a WR in whom Gibbs is responsible to make sure they do know which route to run, without a word out of Gibbs.

As Cooley said if he spent the last 9 months being told he was the starter and preparing for that role, and to have that yanked out from under you after 19 minutes, well he would be pissed to.

It really sounds like to me that the players are not only behind Ramsey 110% I really believe they are looking at this situation and saying to themselves that the way Ramsey has been treated is lousy, I think his teamates really feel sorry for him, on both sides of the ball.

I still say Gibbs is forcing Brunell down everyone's throat to justify that trade, the word was Gibbs was about the only one who wanted Brunell in the organazation at the time he made the move, I still say Brunell will be so horrible that it wont be long before Ramsey gets back on the field, and I truly believe he will overcome all this garbage to be one heck of a QB!


This situation is so bizarre and out of charactor for Gibbs that I can't help but wonder if it is some kind of scam to get an advantage on dallas, I am starting to believe illdefined's theory.


[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/14/AR2005091402196.html?sub=AR[/url]

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

Funny how the truth comes out from the team, who watches a hell of lot more film than any of the guys on this forum, that the WR ran the wrong route. I don't think one person on the this forum even mentions that, yet all we here Gibbs blah..blah..blah, Brunell...blah..blah...blah...my precious (Gibbs and Brunell is like Gollum and the Ring from Lord of the Rings). I would love to hear people continue to go off about how friggin great Gibbs is, and yeah I am being a tough SOB, but hey this is the NFL or NOT FOR LONG as Jerry Glanville used to say. I am sick of this team being mediocre a shell of its once proud self.

So for all of you Ramsey bashers what do you have to say now, that the truth is coming out from the players that the pass, the INT that everyone here grilled Ramsey for was not his fault but the WR. St. Joe of Gibbs seems to be awful quiet about that, seems to bring his credibity into serious question. I just hope that this does not end up dividing the team, but it is going happen, because Brunell is what is is, old and washed up, and 5 yards per completion.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]
I still say Gibbs is forcing Brunell down everyone's throat to justify that trade, the word was Gibbs was about the only one who wanted Brunell in the organazation at the time he made the move, I still say Brunell will be so horrible that it wont be long before Ramsey gets back on the field, and I truly believe he will overcome all this garbage to be one heck of a QB![/quote]

Do you honestly beleive that Gibbs is playing Brunell to prove a point regardless of the outcome? You don't think that he feels, based on his hall of fame coaching acumen that Brunell gives the team a better chance of winning games? This is what I find so frustrating on the board, that the implication that the coaching staff has something other than winning games at the forefront of their decisions. Not all decisions are going to be the right ones (keeping A. Brown on the roster after the poor pre-season) but I'm still willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt. Even if Brunell 'is so horrible' that a change has to be made, it will be Campbell taking the field, Ramsey (unless an injury occurs in the next 3 games) will never get meaningful snaps as a Redskin again. The coaching staff (not just Gibbs I'm willing to bet) has no confidence in him so if your current QB is 'so horrible' to the point of replacing him I would assume the team is losing games so give your future some game time experience and exposure. Team insiders already say that he is the best QB on the roster anyway.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

I wonder how many Brunell Bashers have ever entertained the possibility that receivers were running the wrong routes last season, or players weren't following the right blocking schemes, etc. etc.?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

:coach: You know what would cure all this paranoia? beating dallas. i heard jansen on the radio and he said patrick was still not doing things that the coaching staff wanted him to do.i didn't hear anything in his voice too indicate that this statement was a tongue in cheeck remark.like it or not ramsey and brunell and cambpell are our qb's. let's support them all and leave the rest to gibbs. becuase no matter how much we think we may know or have heard, it isn't the whole story.the thing about relationships is sometimes you have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. you don't then have to tear the house down.let's turn all this venom towards the cowgirls where it belongs.leave chicken little to himself

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]...word was Gibbs was about the only one who wanted Brunell in the organazation at the time he made the move...[/QUOTE]
Where did this word come from?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

I've also heard from an "unnamed source" that the team feels more comfortable with Brunell in there.

So much for these unnamed sources.

Hey an unnamed source says The Warpath is the best website on the internet! It must be true!

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Do you honestly beleive that Gibbs is playing Brunell to prove a point regardless of the outcome? You don't think that he feels, based on his hall of fame coaching acumen that Brunell gives the team a better chance of winning games? This is what I find so frustrating on the board, that the implication that the coaching staff has something other than winning games at the forefront of their decisions. Not all decisions are going to be the right ones (keeping A. Brown on the roster after the poor pre-season) but I'm still willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt. Even if Brunell 'is so horrible' that a change has to be made, it will be Campbell taking the field, Ramsey (unless an injury occurs in the next 3 games) will never get meaningful snaps as a Redskin again. The coaching staff (not just Gibbs I'm willing to bet) has no confidence in him so if your current QB is 'so horrible' to the point of replacing him I would assume the team is losing games so give your future some game time experience and exposure. Team insiders already say that he is the best QB on the roster anyway.[/QUOTE]

Bah, nonsense.

Gibbs doesn't want to win, he wants to push his personal agenda. Because Gibbs has a history of doing this sort of thing, right? Putting his personal agendas ahead of the good of the team?

Please. It's getting very X-Files up in here. :frusty:

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I've also heard from an "unnamed source" that the team feels more comfortable with Brunell in there.

So much for these unnamed sources.

Hey an unnamed source says The Warpath is the best website on the internet! It must be true![/QUOTE]
Yeah I was thinking the same stuff. Unnamed sources are worthless. And lets be honest if this is the best the Post could do in terms of stirring up trouble by using unnamed sources then this doesn't seem like a real big deal from the team stand point. In agroup of 50 or so guys you are always going to have some upset about something. I care more about the team in general and not a couple individual players who are gutless enough to not be named.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Do you honestly beleive that Gibbs is playing Brunell to prove a point regardless of the outcome? You don't think that he feels, based on his hall of fame coaching acumen that Brunell gives the team a better chance of winning games? This is what I find so frustrating on the board, that the implication that the coaching staff has something other than winning games at the forefront of their decisions. Not all decisions are going to be the right ones (keeping A. Brown on the roster after the poor pre-season) but I'm still willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt. Even if Brunell 'is so horrible' that a change has to be made, it will be Campbell taking the field, Ramsey (unless an injury occurs in the next 3 games) will never get meaningful snaps as a Redskin again. The coaching staff (not just Gibbs I'm willing to bet) has no confidence in him so if your current QB is 'so horrible' to the point of replacing him I would assume the team is losing games so give your future some game time experience and exposure. Team insiders already say that he is the best QB on the roster anyway.[/QUOTE]
Amen!

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

wow so you heard that the WR ran an incorrect route on the play? that sorta irks me a little more. to which WR was the pass intended does anybody remember? i also got the feeling that the 'injury' was just an excuse to get brunell in there while only causing a minimal amount of trouble; i just had that feeling.

this is just the type of situation typical of a struggling franchise. these are things that are supposed to be sorted out in the preseason. who'd have thought we only 20 minutes or so to sort things out? way to go.

well i'll complain a bit here but come monday we should all be cheering brunell on.

go skins

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Do you honestly beleive that Gibbs is playing Brunell to prove a point regardless of the outcome? You don't think that he feels, based on his hall of fame coaching acumen that Brunell gives the team a better chance of winning games? This is what I find so frustrating on the board, that the implication that the coaching staff has something other than winning games at the forefront of their decisions. Not all decisions are going to be the right ones (keeping A. Brown on the roster after the poor pre-season) but I'm still willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE]

was keeping Brunell in so long last season to make SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB?

if you wanted the best chance to win a *regular season* game and not a practice or preseason 2nd half, why wouldn't you go with the young guy who sparked the offense last year and WON some games for you?

no the most frustrating thing on this board is everyone's severe short term memory, the blind 180s based on the offseason, and peoples utter comfort with a gamble Gibbs ALREADY LOST WITH and is trying again.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Funny how the truth comes out from the team, who watches a hell of lot more film than any of the guys on this forum, that the WR ran the wrong route. I don't think one person on the this forum even mentions that, yet all we here Gibbs blah..blah..blah, Brunell...blah..blah...blah...my precious (Gibbs and Brunell is like Gollum and the Ring from Lord of the Rings). I would love to hear people continue to go off about how friggin great Gibbs is, and yeah I am being a tough SOB, but hey this is the NFL or NOT FOR LONG as Jerry Glanville used to say. I am sick of this team being mediocre a shell of its once proud self.

So for all of you Ramsey bashers what do you have to say now, that the truth is coming out from the players that the pass, the INT that everyone here grilled Ramsey for was not his fault but the WR. St. Joe of Gibbs seems to be awful quiet about that, seems to bring his credibity into serious question. I just hope that this does not end up dividing the team, but it is going happen, because Brunell is what is is, old and washed up, and 5 yards per completion.[/QUOTE]



Yes it is the NFL. To paraphrase Mark Schlereth from an interview aired last night ESPN. Q-Did Coach Gibbs pull Ramsey fast? Mark-yes. Q-To fast? Mark-it's the NFL, thats how it works! Q-What would you have done? Mark-I would have pulled him to. He had most of last season, all summer, mini-camps, training camp, etc, etc, etc to impress the coaching staff, and take the team, he failed. You cannot not win in the NFL turning the ball over. Q-How do you think Ramsey should handle it? Mark-He's a big boy, this is the NFL, and he'll get over it!

Actually, I am not a Ramsey basher, but a supporter. I would have pulled him, with absolutely NO sign of improvement. It's not about a quarter of play or one errant pass or decision. It is about dozens of them. Potential is not enough, ask Jeff George

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Yes it is the NFL. To paraphrase Mark Schlereth from an interview aired last night ESPN. Q-Did Coach Gibbs pull Ramsey fast? Mark-yes. Q-To fast? Mark-it's the NFL, thats how it works! Q-What would you have done? Mark-I would have pulled him to. He had most of last season, all summer, mini-camps, training camp, etc, etc, etc to impress the coaching staff, and take the team, he failed. You cannot not win in the NFL turning the ball over. Q-How do you think Ramsey should handle it? Mark-He's a big boy, this is the NFL, and he'll get over it!

Actually, I am not a Ramsey basher, but a supporter. I would have pulled him, with absolutely NO sign of improvement. It's not about a quarter of play or one errant pass or decision. It is about dozens of them. Potential is not enough, ask Jeff George[/QUOTE]

I too am not a Ramsey-basher but yes, he has had plenty of time to make a substantial improvement to be granted and retain his role as starting quarterback based on obvious performance, which he has been unable to do.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Yes it is the NFL. To paraphrase Mark Schlereth from an interview aired last night ESPN. Q-Did Coach Gibbs pull Ramsey fast? Mark-yes. Q-To fast? Mark-it's the NFL, thats how it works! Q-What would you have done? Mark-I would have pulled him to. He had most of last season, all summer, mini-camps, training camp, etc, etc, etc to impress the coaching staff, and take the team, he failed. You cannot not win in the NFL turning the ball over. Q-How do you think Ramsey should handle it? Mark-He's a big boy, this is the NFL, and he'll get over it!

Actually, I am not a Ramsey basher, but a supporter. I would have pulled him, with absolutely NO sign of improvement. It's not about a quarter of play or one errant pass or decision. It is about dozens of them. Potential is not enough, ask Jeff George[/QUOTE]


And what has Brunell done to justify giving him the starting job? Absolutely nothing except play the most important role in the debacle that was last season. Oh, I forgot, the same standards don't apply to Brunell in this organization, do they?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Funny how the truth comes out from the team, who watches a hell of lot more film than any of the guys on this forum, that the WR ran the wrong route. I don't think one person on the this forum even mentions that, yet all we here Gibbs blah..blah..blah, Brunell...blah..blah...blah...my precious (Gibbs and Brunell is like Gollum and the Ring from Lord of the Rings). I would love to hear people continue to go off about how friggin great Gibbs is, and yeah I am being a tough SOB, but hey this is the NFL or NOT FOR LONG as Jerry Glanville used to say. I am sick of this team being mediocre a shell of its once proud self.

So for all of you Ramsey bashers what do you have to say now, that the truth is coming out from the players that the pass, the INT that everyone here grilled Ramsey for was not his fault but the WR. St. Joe of Gibbs seems to be awful quiet about that, seems to bring his credibity into serious question. I just hope that this does not end up dividing the team, but it is going happen, because Brunell is what is is, old and washed up, and 5 yards per completion.[/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous, it really is


Honestly, all these "fans" that have lost faith, bashed Gibbs, and put down the team, you have to feel [i]so, so, so sorry for them[/i]. What in the world are they going to do and how are they going to feel when the Redskins win next Monday? Lost souls without a team ... to bad [url="http://www.thewarpath.net/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#"]:doh:[/url]

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Do you honestly beleive that Gibbs is playing Brunell to prove a point regardless of the outcome? You don't think that he feels, based on his hall of fame coaching acumen that Brunell gives the team a better chance of winning games? This is what I find so frustrating on the board, that the implication that the coaching staff has something other than winning games at the forefront of their decisions. Not all decisions are going to be the right ones (keeping A. Brown on the roster after the poor pre-season) but I'm still willing to give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt. Even if Brunell 'is so horrible' that a change has to be made, it will be Campbell taking the field, Ramsey (unless an injury occurs in the next 3 games) will never get meaningful snaps as a Redskin again. The coaching staff (not just Gibbs I'm willing to bet) has no confidence in him so if your current QB is 'so horrible' to the point of replacing him I would assume the team is losing games so give your future some game time experience and exposure. Team insiders already say that he is the best QB on the roster anyway.[/QUOTE]


Campbell is a totally unproven commodity right now. To start him is to, essentially, give up on the season and let it be a learning experience for him. If Brunell is hurt, Ramsey will be back in. However, I firmly believe that if Brunell struggles, as he did last year, he will be allowed to continue to play. No way Gibbs is going to bench him for poor performance. No, he will continue to praise him, defend him, make excuses for him - all the things he was never willing to do for Ramsey.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]And what has Brunell done to justify giving him the starting job? Absolutely nothing except play the most important role in the debacle that was last season. Oh, I forgot, the same standards don't apply to Brunell in this organization, do they?[/QUOTE]

While that is true, that has not been the case in the pre season this year. Brunell has been dramatically improved, while Ramsey has been SOS, different year.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

Also remember he could be the next Big Ben. Ben didn't have to pass a lot, he threw when he had to and relied on his great running game.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

maybe if i ask enough, i'll get an answer?

[QUOTE=illdefined]was keeping Brunell in so long last season and made SURE we didn't go to the playoffs about winning? or on some level, personal loyalty to his QB? [/QUOTE]

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

and for the record, i'm NOT bashing Gibbs. i think QB loyalty is admirable actually, i just want to know what Brunell did to get it, and why Ramsey never got to have it.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

I kind of differ with most of you on this board who think that if Brunell struggles, he will be given a long leash. I don't think he will. I mean how much faith does the team retain in their coach if Brunell comes in and throw 3 picks on Monday night and then starts in Week 4 against the Seahawks. Now I say this with the realization that Brunell will probably never throw 3 picks in a game, he will just throw it away like we all watched him do last year, which is frustrating as hell, but if he struggles to make plays, I don't think he stays in there for 9 games like he did last year. Something will have to happen. I REALLY DON'T CARE WHO THE QB IS, I JUST WANT AT LEAST 21 POINTS!!!! JEEEEEZZZZ!

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

On thing is getting lost here (with some). Ramsey is benched, not deported to another country. Some of the best QB's ever to play have been benched. It is a pretty common practice, and one Gibbs has used on numerous occasions (with great success). He can get his job back, if he can keep his head. I have heard some people close the situation imply (out of the side of their mouth) that Ramsey had some things the coach's (that means the coaching staff, not just Joe) wanted him to correct, or work on. He had plenty of time to do so, and the implication is that he did not want to do so.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]While that is true, that has not been the case in the pre season this year. Brunell has been dramatically improved, while Ramsey has been SOS, different year.[/QUOTE]


But, once the regular season started, we were back to the same old, same old. Brunell played for nearly 3 quarters and accumulated the grand total of 70 yards passing!

No TDs at all. At least Ramsey did throw a TD pass that was later nullified.

With Hall out, we are in trouble because his kicks were the only offensive points. Once again, Brunell put up zero points directing the offense.

The preseason really doesn't count. The only thing that counts is what happens when the real games are played. In that regard, Ramsey has a better record last year as a starter than does Brunell.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]On thing is getting lost here (with some). Ramsey is benched, not deported to another country. Some of the best QB's ever to play have been benched. It is a pretty common practice, and one Gibbs has used on numerous occasions (with great success). He can get his job back, if he can keep his head. I have heard some people close the situation imply (out of the side of their mouth) that Ramsey had some things the coach's (that means the coaching staff, not just Joe) wanted him to correct, or work on. He had plenty of time to do so, and the implication is that he did not want to do so.[/QUOTE]


I would agree with you about the possibility of Ramsey getting his job back, were it not for the drafting of Campbell. Let's not forget what Gibbs has done from the first day he came back in terms of QBs. First, Gibbs immediately pursued the aging Brunell and signed him to an absurdly large contract which even the most ardent of Brunell/Gibbs devotees must admit is a joke. Next year, he gives up the barn to get Campbell. That's a 1-2 punch and, to me, clearly indicates he doesn't plan on having Ramsey be a part of this team much beyond this year.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

Maybe its time we are all honest. We have Brunell who is pretty much at the end of his career and Ramsey who has skills but very inconsistent. He is like Gardner he will make a great play then drop the ball on the next. This is why all th so called experts have us on the bottom of their list and thats why Gibbs went out and traded to get Campbell. Gibbs knows Brunell is not the answer and he feels Ramsey is not the answer either. We may see Brunell for a while or we may see Ramsey back in but if we are not winning games by mid season Campbell will be our guy. Gibbs signed a five year deal and that will give him 3 and 1/2 years to groom Campbell and make a push for the SB. Alot of people were upset when he traded so much for Campbell but I think Gibbs saw the writing on the wall. Now the people that feel Gibs is playing Brunell because that was his guy is just totaly wrong. Why would a coach play a QB just for pride to loose game that would make them look even worse. So lets just hope that some how we can have a win in Dallas who ever is throwing the ball and see what happens on the buy week.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]On thing is getting lost here (with some). Ramsey is benched, not deported to another country. Some of the best QB's ever to play have been benched. It is a pretty common practice, and one Gibbs has used on numerous occasions (with great success). [b]He can get his job back, if he can keep his head. I have heard some people close the situation imply (out of the side of their mouth) that Ramsey had some things the coach's (that means the coaching staff, not just Joe) wanted him to correct, or work on.[/b] He had plenty of time to do so, and the implication is that he did not want to do so.[/QUOTE]

Yes, this was exactly what was reported in The Washington Post today. But really guys, this topic is getting old. The decision has been made and a tone has been set. Remember, Antonio Brown was CUT for making an untimely turnover. The Redskins have had problems with making untimely mistakes. I'll say it again, THE REDSKINS HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH MAKING UNTIMELY MISTAKES!! Once more? Okay, maybe not.

Joe Gibbs has tolerated these mistakes far too long for his own comfort, let alone the fans'. Benching Ramsey is part of sending a clear message that turnovers will no longer be a regular part of play or else you'll find yourself on the street or at least on the bench. I don't see this as personal with Ramsey, I see it as a coach trying whatever it takes to correct dumbass error-filled football. It killed the team last year, he doesn't want it happening again this year. Patrick is a good QB, but he makes A LOT of mistakes. My guess is that when The Post reported that Gibbs had some things he wanted Patrick to work on, he meant exactly that...spend more time finding ways to protect that rock and make good decisions.

Now, can we talk about Jansens' two broken thumbs or Noble's bum knee or anything other than Brunell v. Ramsey?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]and for the record, i'm NOT bashing Gibbs. i think QB loyalty is admirable actually, i just want to know what Brunell did to get it, and why Ramsey never got to have it.[/QUOTE]

Loyalty is part of it, but to Gibbs he thought Brunell was the right guy for the job and the guy that could help lead us to wins.

I highly doubt he stuck by Brunell so long simply because he likes Brunell.

Loyalty is one thing, but to say that he has a personal agenda to prove to everyone that he made the right decision in bringing in Brunell is really a stretch of the imagination, and pretty insulting to a man the caliber of Gibbs who above anything, wants to make the Redskins winners.

Gibbs inherited Ramsey, simple as that. From day one he obviously hasn't felt he was the right guy for his offense.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]I would agree with you about the possibility of Ramsey getting his job back, were it not for the drafting of Campbell. Let's not forget what Gibbs has done from the first day he came back in terms of QBs. First, Gibbs immediately pursued the aging Brunell and signed him to an absurdly large contract which even the most ardent of Brunell/Gibbs devotees must admit is a joke. Next year, he gives up the barn to get Campbell. That's a 1-2 punch and, to me, clearly indicates he doesn't plan on having Ramsey be a part of this team much beyond this year.[/QUOTE]

So now Brunell's contact is Gibbs' fault?

Let's place blame where it's due, Snyder deals with the contracts around here.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]So now Brunell's contact is Gibbs' fault?

Let's place blame where it's due, Snyder deals with the contracts around here.[/QUOTE]

Do you expect me to believe that Gibbs did not play a major role, not only in first pursuing Brunell, but in the contract talks as well? Maybe not directly, but certainly indirectly.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]Do you expect me to believe that Gibbs did not play a major role, not only in first pursuing Brunell, but in the contract talks as well? Maybe not directly, but certainly indirectly.[/QUOTE]

According to what's widely understood regarding the front office setup, Snyder is the primary negotiator. I highly doubt Gibbs played any sort of a notable role in the number crunching aspect of Brunell's contract.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Sociofan]Yes, this was exactly what was reported in The Washington Post today. But really guys, this topic is getting old. The decision has been made and a tone has been set. Remember, Antonio Brown was CUT for making an untimely turnover. The Redskins have had problems with making untimely mistakes. I'll say it again, THE REDSKINS HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH MAKING UNTIMELY MISTAKES!! Once more? Okay, maybe not.

Joe Gibbs has tolerated these mistakes far too long for his own comfort, let alone the fans'. Benching Ramsey is part of sending a clear message that turnovers will no longer be a regular part of play or else you'll find yourself on the street or at least on the bench. I don't see this as personal with Ramsey, I see it as a coach trying whatever it takes to correct dumbass error-filled football. It killed the team last year, he doesn't want it happening again this year. Patrick is a good QB, but he makes A LOT of mistakes. My guess is that when The Post reported that Gibbs had some things he wanted Patrick to work on, he meant exactly that...spend more time finding ways to protect that rock and make good decisions.

Now, can we talk about Jansens' two broken thumbs or Noble's bum knee or anything other than Brunell v. Ramsey?[/QUOTE]

I could not agree more!!!!!!!!! Gibbs has established himself as winner many years before he took the helm with the Redskins. Coordinator, Assistant coach, Head coach, Nascar team owner. It's quite an impressive career. For anyone to think he would personalize a starting QB selection is ludicrous. Something is way wrong and he is fixing it. As he said when he accepted the Redskin job, "we will build a winning team, but it will take some time". That means possibly several years.
When I have to weigh the credibility of the "Brunell bashers" opinion, or Gibbs, sorry, I go with the proven winner
I would now love to talk about Jansens two broken thumbs.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]I could not agree more!!!!!!!!! Gibbs has established himself as winner many years before he took the helm with the Redskins. Coordinator, Assistant coach, Head coach, Nascar team owner. It's quite an impressive career. For anyone to think he would personalize a starting QB selection is ludicrous. Something is way wrong and he is fixing it. As he said when he accepted the Redskin job, "we will build a winning team, but it will take some time". That means possibly several years.
When I have to weigh the credibility of the "Brunell bashers" opinion, or Gibbs, sorry, I go with the proven winner
I would now love to talk about Jansens two broken thumbs.[/QUOTE]

I heard Jansen gave the QB switch 2 thumbs up!!

I know everyone else thought of it but didn't.... but I did lol

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

(illdefined) and for the record, i'm NOT bashing Gibbs. i think QB loyalty is admirable actually, i just want to know what Brunell did to get it, and why Ramsey never got to have it.

I'm just a positive thinker everyone. With that being said I am behind all the moves that Gibbs has made with the team. I am tired though of everyone saying MB gets special treatment from Gibbs. Last season was his first year back. He wanted a veteran QB. He went out and got one. If we had started PR last year at the beginning of the season he would have stunk it up even worse than MB. Remember the QB competition last preason and MB out performed PR. Well being it was a new system Gibbs gave MB a longer leash to learn the system in real time action. Which will be very benifitial to MB this time around you watch and see. (8 or 9 games under his belt in the system) PR gets his shot to start and did pretty good. He still was making bad decisions though. (Turnover in the Eagles game was a killer) Gibbs is trying to do something to make PR understand that we can not afford to make those kinds of mistakes. Do to PR decent play earned his the starting spot. Preason roles around PR's the starter and MB is health looks alot better; PR looks the same as last. No real impovement. The entire off season Gibbs Preached no-turnovers. What does PR do? Have a TO (INT) on the second play of the game(I hear wr ran wrong route. Throw it away and live another day) and then have 2 fumbles all in the first quarter of play. Not that Gibbs favors MB or if he is better. It is the principle of being able to execute what Gibbs feel he and the team needs to be successful and that is no TO's. By sitting PR it will make him understand the importance of not making TO's. So when he gets his chance again he will be more cautious of his assignments and reads. MB will be on the short playing time list if he make TO's this time around. With our D either one of our QB's can win without the TO's

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

as another point in this debate...

i'll refer to brunell's trashy, fluttering, limp-wristed, beachball-resembling throws... namely the first one when he came in... is that going to beat dallas (or anyone) when they have RW as the 8th man in the box?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897]as another point in this debate...

i'll refer to brunell's trashy, fluttering, limp-wristed, beachball-resembling throws... namely the first one when he came in... is that going to beat dallas (or anyone) when they have RW as the 8th man in the box?[/QUOTE]

So...................how bout' that Jon Jansen playing with two broken thumbs?

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna]I heard Jansen gave the QB switch 2 thumbs up!!

I know everyone else thought of it but didn't.... but I did lol[/QUOTE]

Now THAT was funny.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]So...................how bout' that Jon Jansen playing with two broken thumbs?[/QUOTE]

So... it's a good thing he's not a QB. Ambidextrous or not.

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]A nice article in the post, maybe extracted about as much as they could out of some of the skins players about Ramsey, Cooley is speaking his mind, Jansen is trying to keep things under control [classy guy] but apparently 2 things have really ticked off Ramsey,

1- he feels that Gibbs was just looking for any excuse to yank him, doesn't sound like Joe is doing his job of instilling any kind of confidence in Ramsey whatsoever. It also sounds just like it looked, Gibbs has it in for Ramsey.

2- apparently one redskin who asked to remain anonomous said, that the reciever ran the wrong route on that INT which has only infuriated Ramsey more. sounds to me like he's being scapegoated because of the lack of understanding by a WR in whom Gibbs is responsible to make sure they do know which route to run, without a word out of Gibbs.

As Cooley said if he spent the last 9 months being told he was the starter and preparing for that role, and to have that yanked out from under you after 19 minutes, well he would be pissed to.

It really sounds like to me that the players are not only behind Ramsey 110% I really believe they are looking at this situation and saying to themselves that the way Ramsey has been treated is lousy, I think his teamates really feel sorry for him, on both sides of the ball.

I still say Gibbs is forcing Brunell down everyone's throat to justify that trade, the word was Gibbs was about the only one who wanted Brunell in the organazation at the time he made the move, I still say Brunell will be so horrible that it wont be long before Ramsey gets back on the field, and I truly believe he will overcome all this garbage to be one heck of a QB!


This situation is so bizarre and out of charactor for Gibbs that I can't help but wonder if it is some kind of scam to get an advantage on dallas, I am starting to believe illdefined's theory.


[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/14/AR2005091402196.html?sub=AR[/url][/QUOTE]


First off IF Ramsey had done well all perseason and not looked so bad we wouldn't be talking about this at all. The guy is all over the place! Throws high and wide!!! He can't hit a post if his life was on the line! When he is in trouble he throws Ints or takes a sack or turns it over. What about running it and throwing it out of bounds? As For Cooley HOW ABOUT GETTING YOUR ASS DOWN FIELD AND GETTING OPEN SO YOUR BOY CAN KEEP HIS JOB!!! :coach: Every body has been saying Cooley is the second coming but so far this season there has been nothing to talk about. :Flush: Shut up and get open Cooley and throw a block or two! :banghead: As for Brunell if he dose well he is lucky and if he blows up they will say I told you so! As Skin fans we are the ones out of luck! Ramsey,Cooley and Brunell will all get paid! The truth of the matter we have a old guy[Brunell] that maybe can get us by this season, Another is flat out not ready for the job[Ramsey] and Campbell is not even ready to hold a clip board! Just not good!!! Horrible ??? All of the Skins QBs are!!! Not just Brunell!!!! The only thing he has going is he has been good[in the passed] and just maybe he can find it for 18 or 19 games! ALL of this before Dallas game..... :dallas: God I hate those guys!!!!!

Re: Suspicious Minds?
 

Patrick was Spurrier's pick please let Joe make his own teeam if he fails he fails with his picks thats what i would do. Think about it Ramsey played for 3 series had two fumbles and 1 pick. WR running the wrong route? he wasnt open anyway I watched the game. I dont like Brunnell either but for right now i think he is our best chance to win Pat is the backup like he should be until he cures the turnover curse. then he will be the next Theisman.