Another "Arrington Gone" article
 

[url="http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm"]http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm[/url]

Man, Ive got not 1, but 2 Arrington jerseys. Again folks, if you are buying a jersey go old school.

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I here ya, I bought Steven Davis when he signed his "life time deal", then went and got Bailey, then LaVar. I am getting a Riggins, or maybe Ethan Albright, he has been here for a while!!

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If we lose both Lavar and Greg Williams next year, I will be pi$$ed. One of them should stay here to help the defense.

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That brings up a good point. What happens if GW leaves for a coaching position and we lost LA?

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[QUOTE=redsk1]That brings up a good point. What happens if GW leaves for a coaching position and we lost LA?[/QUOTE]

Naturally, I have no inside info, but, IMO the grand plan is for Joe to take care of business for this contract. Greg is his heir apparent. If that does not happen, I'm goin' off the first three+ story building I can find!

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Hog - problem with that is Gibbs has a fairly long contract, and I'm sure Williams has had an opportunity already. If we continue winning then he'll stick around, if we lose then Im getting worried. Without him we would have had the first overall pick last year.

I can see Williams getting a lot of offers this season (the MN job.) We'll see how it pans out.

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GW is already very well paid, better than a lot of head coaches.

If someone wants him, it would require a substantial deal, I'm not sure if someone would want to cough up a monster deal for an unproven HC.

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Yeah, going to MN would mean a paycut. ;)

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5 reasons Williams will stay. 1-He's happy as an assistant coach and working with Gibbs. 2-Danny is paying him enough or can afford to pay him enough to stay. 3-The team he would inherit will be one that he has had a say in players and they will know the systems making the transition easy. 4-We will be a playoff team and SB contenders when Gibbs retires. 5-He just went through hell as a head coach and will wait for the right moment (when Gibbs retires).

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Lavar is an ass who thinks he knows more than a proven defensive coach like Williams. He is in no position to give Williams fits.

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I read at the last practice he was working reps with the starting D-line.

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Williams is not going anywhere. Again, we all believe he is here to take over for Gibbs when he leaves. I do not believe Gibbs is here for all 5 years. If we do well this year, make the playoffs, and again next year a little deeper, Gibbs would have successfully done his job. Which is get the Redskins back on the map as a contender and then Williams will take over. Bad thing about that is, he will take over the same mess he took over in Buffalo, CAP PROBLEMS. In two years we will be in such a cap mess, we will not have any players we do now. Then we will see how its his scheme and not the players that are on the field. Dont forget in buffalo he had alot of talent of the Defensive side of the ball when he was there and was like top 5. anyway, Joe stays around two years tops, if the team is going in the right direction.

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LaVar had a problem with Marvin Lewis as well, didn't he?

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lavar is one of my favorite skins. i want him to play. but if he isnt going to play, let him go somewhere so he can and get what we can for him. it does us no good to let all that talent sit the bench. try him at pass rushing DE at least.

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[QUOTE=jhold4th]LaVar had a problem with Marvin Lewis as well, didn't he?[/QUOTE]Yes, he did not like playing DE and thought he would be more productive in the upright position. Lewis won that argument when Lavar had 11 sacks.

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Who knows about this whole lavar thing? I dont..nobody does its all specualtion..if he isnt doing anything in a few more weeks..then lets pretty much write him off

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[QUOTE=#56fanatic]Williams is not going anywhere. Again, we all believe he is here to take over for Gibbs when he leaves. I do not believe Gibbs is here for all 5 years. If we do well this year, make the playoffs, and again next year a little deeper, Gibbs would have successfully done his job. Which is get the Redskins back on the map as a contender and then Williams will take over. Bad thing about that is, he will take over the same mess he took over in Buffalo, CAP PROBLEMS. In two years we will be in such a cap mess, we will not have any players we do now. Then we will see how its his scheme and not the players that are on the field. Dont forget in buffalo he had alot of talent of the Defensive side of the ball when he was there and was like top 5. anyway, Joe stays around two years tops, if the team is going in the right direction.[/QUOTE]

All the more reason to cut LaVar loose sooner rather than later and free up a ton of cap room.

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If you cut LaVar, that is causing more cap trouble. they are going to have to take the roster bonus due in July and make it guaranteed money, spread it over the contract and deal with it. if you cut him, yeah you save that 6.5 mil, but you are hit with something like 12 or 13 mil next year. and with the CBA in doubt, and if its not extended then the money cant carry over to the following year, it is all on the last year before the CBA is expired. You dont want to cut the guy, not just for financial reasons, but he is a player, leader, and great team mate. plus, I have a #56 jersey, I dont want to have to buy another one. maybe I can just put somebody elses name on it!

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Listening to a sports show out of Miami, hosted by O.J. Mcduffie, and others. According to THEM Arrington's knee is not 100%. I don't know their source, but whatever.

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[QUOTE=firstdown]Yes, he did not like playing DE and thought he would be more productive in the upright position. Lewis won that argument when Lavar had 11 sacks.[/QUOTE]

He didn't play every snap as a DE that year.

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I think Joepa created a monster in college in Lavar, by letting him free lance and make spectacular plays in college, Lavar has that stuck in his brain and thinks that will translate on this level as well and doesn't want to hear otherwise.

He had problem's with Lewis and now Williams, both who know a little about defense.

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When he was drafter by the Redskins, thats what they wanted him to do. Thats why they called him the next LT. they gave him #56. He was trying to be something they wanted him to be. Now and when Marvin was here, they try to get him to be more disciplined and I think he is learning, but when you have been able to do things like he was asked to do, do basically line up and go get the QB or just go after the ball its hard to say, fill that gap, if they dont run there, your team-mate will be there to cover the other gap. I agree that he does or did gamble a little too much year before last, but seriously, the D was in the bottom of the league and he was trying to make plays when nobody else was capable.

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[QUOTE=#56fanatic]When he was drafter by the Redskins, thats what they wanted him to do. Thats why they called him the next LT. they gave him #56. He was trying to be something they wanted him to be. Now and when Marvin was here, they try to get him to be more disciplined and I think he is learning, but when you have been able to do things like he was asked to do, do basically line up and go get the QB or just go after the ball its hard to say, fill that gap, if they dont run there, your team-mate will be there to cover the other gap. I agree that he does or did gamble a little too much year before last, but seriously, the D was in the bottom of the league and he was trying to make plays when nobody else was capable.[/QUOTE]
Good point and I think that is why we will see more and more of him as the season progresses. Once he starts playing w/in the system in practice for a couple of weeks, it will be hard for Williams to keep him out of the lineup.

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[QUOTE=#56fanatic]If you cut LaVar, that is causing more cap trouble. they are going to have to take the roster bonus due in July and make it guaranteed money, spread it over the contract and deal with it. if you cut him, yeah you save that 6.5 mil, but you are hit with something like 12 or 13 mil next year. and with the CBA in doubt, and if its not extended then the money cant carry over to the following year, it is all on the last year before the CBA is expired. You dont want to cut the guy, not just for financial reasons, but he is a player, leader, and great team mate. plus, I have a #56 jersey, I dont want to have to buy another one. maybe I can just put somebody elses name on it![/QUOTE]

Per the Post:

[quote]Cutting Arrington in March would require a $12.14 million hit, but he would be off Washington's books after 2006; the team has incurred steep penalties in the past to make such moves. (Arrington's contract carries a $6.5 million cap figure in 2007 and $9.133 million in 2008, for example, but that would disappear if he were released or traded in March.)[/quote]

As you can see he'd be off the books after 2006 clearing up a lot of space for 2007 and 2008.

Cutting guys for financial reasons happens all the time.

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[QUOTE=firstdown]5 reasons Williams will stay. 1-He's happy as an assistant coach and working with Gibbs. 2-Danny is paying him enough or can afford to pay him enough to stay. 3-The team he would inherit will be one that he has had a say in players and they will know the systems making the transition easy. 4-We will be a playoff team and SB contenders when Gibbs retires. 5-He just went through hell as a head coach and will wait for the right moment (when Gibbs retires).[/QUOTE]

#6. Isnt his daughter a sophomore in highschool and he said something along the lines of I want to stay here until she graduates so she can have a normal four years.

That should buy us two more years with the GDub.

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thanks for the info. But do you really think we can take a 12 million dollar hit, we are only 1. something under right now.

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[QUOTE=#56fanatic]thanks for the info. But do you really think we can take a 12 million dollar hit, we are only 1. something under right now.[/QUOTE]

We can't take the hit in 2005 but maybe after the season. Lavar will be a $12M cap hit next year, while cutting him would result in a slightly higher $12M+ deadcap hit, and for now we can't use the June 1st cut trick to spread the deadcap hit over 2 years. Either way it looks like we'll take a $12M cap hit for LA in 2006.

If he stays we take a $12M hit, but still have a solid player off the bench. If we cut him we take a $12M deadcap hit, but at least he's off the books beyond that. Great upside either way. :rolleyes:

And I really thought that Coles' $9M deadcap hit would remain a team record for a long time. I guess one year is pretty long.

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[QUOTE=#56fanatic]thanks for the info. But do you really think we can take a 12 million dollar hit, we are only 1. something under right now.[/QUOTE]

He's going to count $12 million against our cap whether we cut him or keep him. The roster bonus due in 2006 will boost his cap figure to around $12 million. You could always renegotiate that into a signing bonus and spread it around to future years, but I don't know why you'd do that if he's not going to get playing time. And remember, if GW leaves then Greg Blache will step right in as def coordinator. And who did Greg Blache have as his LB coach and outside LB in Chicago? Dale Lindsey as LB coach and Warrick Holdman at OLB. Sound familiar? I don't think Blache would miss Arrington if GW left.

Better to get the cap room for future years and axe Arrington now. He's WAY overrated.

EDIT: When I say axe him now, I mean in 2006. Of course trading him would be better, if possible.

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[QUOTE=5RINGS]He didn't play every snap as a DE that year.[/QUOTE]

Actually he did, Marvin Lewis wanted him to play with a hand down on some 3rd downs and LaVar did not like it. However, he did play in the system the way Lewis asked of him and he had 11 sacks and a pro bowl year. Which leads me to believe if Williams wants him to play a certain,way LaVar would do it weither or not he was a fan of the system.

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I only hope we have learned a lesson about signing players to these type contracts'. We've had two examples in the last three years of how they don't in the long run pan out very well.

I said when we signed Stephen Davis to the contract we signed him to, he would never see the money, or play out the terms of the deal. I also said the same thing about LaVar, and while much of the problem surrounding his plight at this time centers around discipline and attitude, there is also concerns relative to his cap figure's in 2006. It is not likely the team is going to want to pay him a 6.mil. roster bonus, and a 12.14 mil. cap hit for next year is more than a considerable amount for one player to consume against the cap, and espically for a player who does not start, has injury, as well as other problems with the organization. While he may be considered a fan favorite(at least based on all the many post I've read) unfortunately this is not a popularity contest, this is about money and production. There is no way any team can afford that kind of money for such limited production. In todays age of the salry cap it's very difficult to pay a player based on past performances. It's all about "What have you done for me lately?" The production just does not match the salry. Some say LaVar is the best defensive player we have, if that's true, and considering his salry, why is he not on the field? There's not a LB or any other position player, offence or defense on any team in the NFL consuming that much cap, and not playing.

I just hope we've learned a valueable lesson with signing players to these type long term deals. With JG back at the helm I think we will see a trend towards different types of signings. We should be very careful with long term deals that are so cap-consuming, and espically to players that were initial holdouts.

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[QUOTE=Schneed10]And remember, if GW leaves then Greg Blache will step right in as def coordinator. And who did Greg Blache have as his LB coach and outside LB in Chicago? Dale Lindsey as LB coach and Warrick Holdman at OLB. Sound familiar? I don't think Blache would miss Arrington if GW left.[/QUOTE]

Well technically, Blache is already the defensive coordinator. You want to talk about an experienced coaching staff-Williams, Blache, and Lindsey all have experience as defensive coordinators. I don't know of any other team that can boast of that

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Where are you getting this from?? Lavar might not have liked some of the things that all the various defensive coaching staff have asked of him, but he has always done what was required. He has always worked hard, been a team leader and the face of this organization for a long time.
He has never openly questioned Williams or his staff. He has accepted his role, though he does'nt like it. I just don't understand how the coaching staff can sit down one of the best playmaker we have. that is something that befuddles me. I think there is more than meets the eye.


[QUOTE=REDSKIN2]Lavar is an ass who thinks he knows more than a proven defensive coach like Williams. He is in no position to give Williams fits.[/QUOTE]

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i don't care what anyone says, lavar has amazing talent and this is all going to work out for the best. don't forget that he was upset at how soon he came back last year...i think they are playing it safe

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So many seem to leave the impression that we're dealing with a "Done LaVar wrong song" Somehow we seem to have forgotten all the turmoil He himself has caused, espically with the media. Much of what has happened with him and the team should have been kept in-house and we wouldn't be having all these wild discussions in reference to him. Putting our emotions aside, and viewing this situation from every aspect, there's enough blame to go around, and it shouldn't be deemed that LaVar is completely innocent, not responsible for any of the things that have happened to him.

Some of us make it seem as though LaVar is being singled out, and poor little pitiful LaVar is not responsible for anything, ala Kwame Brown

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Lavar working out with the kick off team today in practice, this really sounds like a break you down type move to say no one is better than the team. Show me go in there and contribute like others who earned spots and just were not given them. Gregg Williams seems to feel it is just a matter of time and stated it could be this week that Lavar breaks out, but stressed it is earned in Practice. He knows what Lavar can do, but it is all just a part of the big picture of forming this team with teammates and not an individual identity and people who want to play as a team. Sounds like Gregg is pissed at all the questions about it and basically Lavar will be on the field when he earns it and not return to the line up because Lavar says he is ready or the fans. If you can say anything about this team is they are exactly that a solid team.

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Here's the GW comments on LA
[url]http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=11023[/url]

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Regardless of what we may all think, the defense needs to get after these quarterbacks. When we start playing our NFC East teams, we can not be allowing them all the time that they have been getting. Mad credit needs to be going out to our d-backs and secondary for their coverage. But, the teams in our division will make us pay for the lack of qb pressure. I think Lavar will fill this void eventually, but it needs to happen soon. I like the fact that our front four block-up holes at the point of attack, but damn it man put some pressure on that qb!!!!!!!!! I think the offseason we wil need to do something about that, but I only hope that Lavar will still be a Redskin.

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Gotta love Williams, always a straight shooter:

Williams added: "[The media] is making more of this than him or me or anybody else. We are a team, a defensive team, and it's about winning ball games. It's about the team, not the individuals."

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[QUOTE=Longtimefan]So many seem to leave the impression that we're dealing with a "Done LaVar wrong song" Somehow we seem to have forgotten all the turmoil He himself has caused, espically with the media. Much of what has happened with him and the team should have been kept in-house and we wouldn't be having all these wild discussions in reference to him. Putting our emotions aside, and viewing this situation from every aspect, there's enough blame to go around, and it shouldn't be deemed that LaVar is completely innocent, not responsible for any of the things that have happened to him.

Some of us make it seem as though LaVar is being singled out, and poor little pitiful LaVar is not responsible for anything, ala Kwame Brown[/QUOTE]

You are correct. It ain't about Lavar. As Greg states in his articles in the locals, "the media is making to much of this". However, as you can also read in Gregs statments, there is some kind of performance/dicipline issue as well. Greg, and the guys have busted their ass's and delivered a top shelf D. Thankfully, Greg is enough of a MAN to resist pressure and do what he knows is right. He cannot have petty issues disrupting it. Basically, it appears, when Lavar gets his sierra together, he'll play. I assume, alot.
He is not helping his cause talking to the media about this stuff and I am, sure it is costing him. If I talked negative stuff about my boss, or my company around my job, it would cost me to!! The way of the world. I'm sure Lavar is bright enough to figure that out. The special teams deal aint all bad. It would definately show his character, and desire to play. Before he was the starting QB, Joe Theisman volunteered to return kicks on special teams. His desire to play was that strong!
Lavar is a talented dude. Talent isn't enough

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I'm buying the team first Gibbs/ Williams philosophy. I love to see Lavar on the field, but I'd rather see higher numbers in the Win column than anything.

TEAM.

It's the thing that matters and more and more coaches/gms/owners realizing that. Why not keep Holdman as a starter? We're 3-0. 0-3 you'd probably see alot more of Lavar. Sure I understand his frustration, but shit he's making lotsa money. Making that on the bench ain't getting any sympathy from me. Let's just all remember the word TEAM. Lavar will show eventually as we all know he's probably hungrier than ever. I do think this whole topic was created by the media. "Do it in practice you'll do it in a game. Don't do it in practice and you won't play in the game," Greg Williams.