Alstott get in???
 

Don't wanna dwell on this one or say we shoulda won etc. Just curious if ya'll think he was in?






I don't think he was but the inconclusive as far as I could see.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

From extremeskins.com:

sableholic
The Rookie
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Age: 21
Posts: 901 Screw the refs official thread with 2 videos and frame by frame evidence
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The dude's elbow was down before goal line how can you not overturn that? i am freaking fuming right now.

EDIT: VIDEO
[url]http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...9A3441Y7UW9667J[/url]

FULL 2 pt conversion Video
[url]http://s57.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...X33LHJ5GYFFNCBF[/url]

Re: Alstott get in???
 

After seeing the replay it's actually impossible for the ball to be over the goalline when his elbow hits the ground. Bad call.
Let's hope we can stay undefeated at home this weekend against the Raiders!!!

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Yeah, he never made it. We shouldn't have given up so damn many points, but still it should have been over there. I just hosted the file on my FTP.

137.113.76.155

Login: highlight
Password: redskins

File name = bullshit2

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Agreed we shouldn't have given em the chance for this play or given up 34 pts at this point in the game. But ya gotta admit, he clearly didn't cross the plain with the ball until after his elbow was down. Again I don't wanna cry over spilt milk, but when you have a replay its supposed to be watched.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Its way too close to call but they gave it to him twice, on the initial play and again on replay, so I guess he was in. This game should have never come down to that play and in reality TB wanted to kick the xp and go to OT but the redskins D made going for 2 an option Gruden could not resist. Had this game gone to OT the skins would have won.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

He was NOT in period. stop making excuses. they are afraid to make the call. anyone with eyes can see the ball in his arm and hand then the arm and elbow come down short. to say that it is inconclusive is to deny what your eyes see.yes , it shouldn't have come to this but it did and our d did their job and stopped him short. than the refs as they always seen to do say it's inconclusive when anyone with eyes that want to see can see.this was our game.please don't make excuses for the refs they blew it plain and simple.and to hide behind the fact that it shouldn't have gotten to that point is over stating the obvious and ignoring the facts.it did end that way.oh well lets move on my head's beginning to hurt.:banghead:

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Terrible call. From the side angle you could clearly tell that Allstott was laying on the ground short of the goalline, and then he reached the ball across once the play was over. I don't know what the headlinesman was looking at.

The replay even showed that the elbow came down well short of the goalline, and it's impossible to have the ball ahead of the elbow when the elbow is bent the way it was.

The real shame of it was that LaVar got a big enough piece of Allsott to get him to the ground while using his patented LaVar Leap. But the refs blew the call, and hence Arrington's tremendous play goes unnoticed.

F'ing b*llshit. That's the second game the refs have robbed us of this year. I don't want to hear anybody around the league saying that the Redskins have gotten fortunate bounces this year. They've had just as many bad ones as good ones. Ridiculous.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

9000 miles away I could see that was a blown call . And for the appologists that say yes well we should never have let them get to that situation it doesn't excuse the refs blunder . It was a close game, close games come down to one or two plays and the fact is we flat out stopped them on the two pointer, the same would be true if the score was 7-8 or 100-7 the ball did not cross the goal line no score .

The sick thing about this call is if it was judged on the field that he didn't make it and the booth replay came in I belive there is no way hell that that call could have been overturned either because there is no inconclusive proof . So what you have here is a game which could be pivitol in the season of these two football teams in Americas national sport descided on one guys oppinion .

Now I am not saying this just because it is the redskins but that sounds like it give the referee a big say in the outcome of these kinds of games and in turn that sounds like he singlehandedly can fix the outcome of the game . So are NFL games fixed ? Is the sport that I love over here in the UK and have done for the last 20 years as fake as Pro-wrestling ? I hope not...

The problem is in the replay it needs to be incontrovertable proof to overturn the ruling on the field no matter how bogus . The refs might end up going away from a game knowing they have made a bad call simply becasue they have no way of overturning it, that bad call may be the reason the ball game is won or lost especially if it occurs in the last 2 minutes so why can the ref not have a call reasonable doubt and refer it to officials away from the field to review further ?

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I thought a player was down when his knee is on the ground, not the elbow.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

One elbow = two knees

Just check the previous week when Portis got his elbow down on that sideline catch.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]One elbow = two knees

Just check the previous week when Portis got his elbow down on that sideline catch.[/QUOTE]

That was how the refs determined if CP was inbounds not whether he was downed/tackled.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Actually, 1 elbow = 1 knee = 2 feet.

All three determine in/out bounds and the knee/ elbow determines down.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I am wondering what the analyst had to say on that. I was in a bar in Charlotte NC and couldn't hear the anouncers. Did they say he was down, or did he get in? Clearly his elbow was down, and the ball was tucked towards his chest, which means the ball was behind his elbow. But it shouldn't have come down to us waiting on a review call to win or lose the game. We let simms look like a probowler yesterday. We couldn't get pressure, no matter how many people we sent. And I dont care who GW is, I think to blitz 7 or 8 guys on that TD pass at the end of the game was a bad call. I know we are trying to force a bad throw or a sack. But we had been burned several times during the game trying to do that. On top of that, we sent springs on the blitz, he is our best cover corner. we left Harris (who was beaten several times) covering one on one with a speed guy, and Proliau was out of position, AGAIN!!. This guy was running towards the line of scrimmage when the ball was snapped. what the hell is he thinking. You never let someone get deep that late in the game, and its the safetys responcability.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

When they showed the last angle of this right elbow hitting the turf, Aikman said he can't be in if his elbow is down because even though you couldn't see the ball, how could the ball be ahead of his elbow?

He didn't make it, the refs didn't have the stones to reverse it.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I agree. That's a call that the refs were just afraid to make against the home team.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

That call and the first "forced" out of bounds play were terrible calls. You could clearly see that Alstott didn't get in.

The refs shit the bed yesterday, but not as bad as the Redskins did with the poor pass coverage and lack of a pass rush.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I'm not going to dwell on that call - it seems that Betts could just as easily be construed as having stepped out of bounds on his big return for a TD. Had the reviewer called that, it would've negated 7 points.

We simply should have picked up the first down on 3rd and 2. Period.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

We can all agree that the skins should not have been in position to lose that game but lets be honest. The refs are there to make the correct calls. Hell the league even gives them the opportunity to watched video replays to make sure they got close calls right. It is there job to watch the video and get it right. They didn't and that was the deciding score. They blew it not the Skins.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Alstot wasn't in. The ref called him in and he couldn't see alstot or the ball when he got close to the goal line - there was a bunch of players standing, on the ground, or moving - for the ref to get a good line of sight. They shouldn't have assumed by default that he made it.

Anyways, the redskins D needs to play a lot better - I don't know what the hell is going on with them. If you can single anyone out it has to be Walt Harris - he gave up a lot of big plays and was one of the players to be offsides on the extra point. They definitely need to replace him with someone - bring back Wilds - or someone that will play. Walt Harris is playing like crap. The offensive line also is playing like crap - especially Samuels - rice was blowing past him the whole game, even with help from the te or rb.

But bottomline, the skins aren't going to beat anyone playing defense like that. It's hard to accept, but what was the strongest unit of the team last year is probably our weakest unit this year. There's been some strong defensive effort in there by most of our players (Arrington, Springs- minus extra point, Washington), but some players need to be benched , off the top of my head - Harris and Lemar Marshall (was he out there on Sunday?)

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Alstott was down outside the endzone. Galloway was not forced out. Betts was inbounds for his entire run for the TD. Check the awesome zoom replay. It will be in the highlights later today...

This game reminded me of two games last year. The Green Bay game when Clinton's game winning TD was called back for a phanton illegal motion penalty and The Dallas home game when TO pushed off Springs, but Springs was called for pass interference and Gardner was mugged in the end zone and there was no call...

Re: Alstott get in???
 

The force out call was horrible and worse than the two point call IMO.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=funandgunner]Alstot wasn't in. The ref called him in and he couldn't see alstot or the ball when he got close to the goal line - there was a bunch of players standing, on the ground, or moving - for the ref to get a good line of sight. They shouldn't have assumed by default that he made it.

Anyways, the redskins D needs to play a lot better - I don't know what the hell is going on with them. If you can single anyone out it has to be Walt Harris - he gave up a lot of big plays and was one of the players to be offsides on the extra point. They definitely need to replace him with someone - bring back Wilds - or someone that will play. Walt Harris is playing like crap. The offensive line also is playing like crap - especially Samuels - rice was blowing past him the whole game, even with help from the te or rb.

But bottomline, the skins aren't going to beat anyone playing defense like that. It's hard to accept, but what was the strongest unit of the team last year is probably our weakest unit this year. There's been some strong defensive effort in there by most of our players (Arrington, Springs- minus extra point, Washington), but some players need to be benched , off the top of my head - Harris and Lemar Marshall (was he out there on Sunday?)[/QUOTE]

Marshall gave up a couple of passes across the middle, but benching him might be a little harsh. For one, I dont know who we would put in there, other than Holdman, or McCune. McCune would get my vote, he is a truck with a corvette engine. Anyway, Harris has been playing horrible since the KC game. When teams like us, like to blitz ALOT with a ALOT of people you have to have cover corners. Harris is not a good cover corner. A good example is when Dallas had that Nasty D a couple of years ago. The corners only had to cover for a couple of seconds and jumped alot of routes. When teams figure out how to pick up the blitz, and you have average corners that are on an island for 4 or so seconds they get beat. That is what is happening with Harris. He is not a cover guy. If he has to cover for only a couple of seconds he can do that, but with his lack of speed and cover skills, any longer than that, he get beat, and beat bad. If we can get Carlos up to speed with the defense, I would say play him. I dont know that he would do much worse. But lets not try that next week against Moss and Porter. But not having Taylor back there yesterday really hurt. Proleau was beat several times and was always late getting to the receivers when he has the over top help. He needs to be benched!!

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Alstott is not in. The head linesman had to make a quick decision, called him in, knowing that it was close enough to be reviewed. The booth decided that there wasn't enough evidence to overturn, and went forward.

After LaVar's leap, Alstott went right into the hole LaVar should have plugged. If he stays in his hole, I honestly think he stuffs Alstott, game over.

However, that one play didn't make or break the Skins. Missing Taylor and Griffin, Prioleau getting burned several times, untimely blitzes on the Bucs last drive, and TURNOVERS are what hurt the Skins most.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The force out call was horrible and worse than the two point call IMO.[/QUOTE]


I have NEVER seen a force out called on a WR running towards the sideline like that. Those calls are made when a WR leaps up for the ball and a DB never allows him the chance to come down in bounds. This WR was running...he already had one foot on the ground before the DB even made contact. Horrible...horrrible...horrible call! Way worse than the 2 point call...that bad call just occured in the last minute of the game which magnifies it.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie]After LaVar's leap, Alstott went right into the hole LaVar should have plugged. If he stays in his hole, I honestly think he stuffs Alstott, game over.[/QUOTE]

You know I was thinking the same thing when I saw the play but I didn't want to get into another LaVar debate. But really, was there a need for him to leap there? Is this one of those "once he learns the system" situations that we hear about?

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I actually think LaVar was thinking that Alstott would jump like he did the past two times. It's just like blocking a penalty kick in soccer. The goalie jumps one way or another. You have no chance to react.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Yeah, I contemplating not saying anything because I got housed for the Shockey thing.

However, I don't think it's a learning the system thing. It's a "need to make a big impact" type thing. Back to his PSU days, when he was all over the place. I think for that one play, he thought he was doing what was needed, when in actuality, he just needed to stand there and hit.

the push call, was a judgment call. that needs to be changed though...the part where it can't be overturned on review. it was quite clear from the replay, and the ref should have the opportunity to look it over and realize the mistake.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

it would have never came to this point if the special teams didn't get the off sides penalty. At first they were going for one and it would have went to overtime

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]You know I was thinking the same thing when I saw the play but I didn't want to get into another LaVar debate. But really, was there a need for him to leap there? Is this one of those "once he learns the system" situations that we hear about?[/QUOTE]

First of all, I'm pretty sure GW put LaVar in on that play specifically to leap because of the two previous goal line plays where Alstott leaped. Secondly, what hole was he supposed to plug? Alstott hit the pile. If there was a hole, he would have just walked right in. If LaVar had just hit the pile, he wouldn't even have gotten a piece of Alstott.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Benefit of the doubt, considering that GW may have told LaVar to leap. However, IMO, visually, there is a hole that Alstott ran towards, where LaVar was standing. The pile moved towards Alstott, and he ends up in it.

Certainly one of those "what if" things. But what's done is done...and as I stated previously, that one play did not make or break the Skins.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]First of all, I'm pretty sure GW put LaVar in on that play specifically to leap because of the two previous goal line plays where Alstott leaped. Secondly, what hole was he supposed to plug? Alstott hit the pile. If there was a hole, he would have just walked right in. If LaVar had just hit the pile, he wouldn't even have gotten a piece of Alstott.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I think Arrington had a great game yesterday - he wasn't perfect, but if everyone played like him yesterday - we would have won that game.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Listen, sure that play pretty much cost us the game, but the skins put themselves in the position to not control their own destiny ... and here are few reasons why ...
[list][*]the Defense giving up long plays - AGAIN[*]a big penalty killing that bomb to Santana, [*]Brunell's fumbles[*]interceptions[*]Simms getting all day to throw[*]bad playcalling on Defense, i.e. untimely blitzes[*]Portis and the running game not picking up two measly yards to ice the game in the 4th.[*]offsides on an extra point[*]not getting the job done with 58 seconds left and two timeouts[*]bad punting[*]not getting one sack[*]Springs not covering Galloway the entire game[/list]

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I didn't think he was in after the replay but it was close. Had they originally said he didn't get in I don't think they would have overturned it either. The evidence wasn't conclusive enough. The bottom line is you're not gonna get that call on the road nor should you expect to.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

i want to :vomit: everytime i think of this game, and everytime i see the name alstott

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

Re: Alstott get in???
 

It shouldn't come down to one play but it did and the kicker is that one play was ruled wrong, even if we marched up the field and made the game winning field goal it wouldn't make the refs call any righter

Re: Alstott get in???
 

[QUOTE=bedlamVR]It shouldn't come down to one play but it did and the kicker is that one play was ruled wrong, even if we marched up the field and made the game winning field goal it wouldn't make the refs call any righter[/QUOTE]


There are many things done wrong in this one! By coaching staff and players! The refs throw in as well. You just can't play that way or have bad calls! These are the best????? Right????? At the middle of the season it shouldn't be this way!!!

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Gibbs to Send Game Tape to NFL
By Gary Fitzgerald
Redskins.com
November 14, 2005



Head coach Joe Gibbs said on Monday that he would send film into the NFL of the disputed two-point conversion play that was pivotal in Tampa Bay's 36-35 victory over the Redskins on Sunday at Raymond James Stadium.
After reviewing the film on Monday, Gibbs said that the footage showed fullback Mike Alstott's elbow was on the ground before he crossed the goal line. Referees and replay officials ruled otherwise.

"We have a very clear film shot of the ballcarrier on the ground about six inches short," Gibbs said. "It was the same thing everybody else saw. We'll turn it in. I don't know what else you can do."

The play was one of several controversial calls during Sunday's game.

Alstott's two-point conversion was preceded by an apparent block of a PAT, but Shawn Springs was called for off-sides on the play. It was Springs who had raced around the left end and blocked the kick. Walt Harris raced around the right end in similar fashion.


Joe Gibbs
Said Gibbs: "We actually felt like we blocked it. We looked at it about 30 times with [special teams coordinator] Danny Smith. We felt like the center picked the ball up a little bit and that we kind of got off right when he picked it up. That block could have won it for us. Again, we'll turn that one in."

Asked what typically happens when he turns in film to the league for review, Gibbs replied: "It's going to come back as, '[The refs] either missed it or [the refs] didn't.' That's what they're going to say. You try to help as best you can and you turn all of that stuff in.

"We're all trying to work together. You want to have as few errors as possible. The best way to do that is to cooperate and send all of this stuff in. And hopefully the next time, it won't happen to us, it'll happen to somebody else."

With the off-sides penalty called, the Bucs had the ball on the 1-yard line for the game-tying PAT. In a gutsy move, Tampa Bay head coach Jon Gruden decided to go for the two-point play. It worked and it proved to be the game-winning points.

On Monday, Gibbs was questioned about going for the block on the PAT.

"We had [a play] that we felt would work," he explained. "Blocking that could have been the play of the game. You take your shot. It's one of those things when it's over, you look back and say 'What if.' For me, I kind of like to go for it and be aggressive. But in this case, you could say that it bit us."

Gibbs has been a longtime supporter of the replay system. On Monday, he said he still supports it.

"If we didn't have it, I'd really be concerned," he said. "At least this way, if there's something that's obvious, you're going to get an overturn on it. I still feel good about the fact that we can review those things."

Re: Alstott get in???
 

Dockery has got to go.he was the one who held on the long pass play to moss. buger mcfarland owned him all day.3 years, he's been here 3 years and is still pulling this crap. and i'm sorry but a man that big should motoring people all over the field but he reacts to the defender instead of dictates.steve hutchison were are you.

Re: Alstott get in???
 

I've watched the PAT block play over and over and I'm telling you, it's a damn close call, it looks like Springs and Harris just get a great jump.