Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Hes sending tapes of the center moving and it wasn't offsides and Mike Allstott not getting in..but what can the NFL do when they see the tapes

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

say he was right and they are sorry.

last week when we played the e-girls portis had a run towards the end of the game which would end the game but it was called back due to holding, the league saw the tape and said they were sorry

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Did anyone see Wilbon beating up on Gibbs on PTI today. He called Gibbs the world biggest whinner in the NFL and made Gibbs out to be some conspirousy theorist. All for sending in tapes to the NFL. Whats the deal with that? I thought wilbon had our back and he attacks Gibbs like that?

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=Misterbillysells]Did anyone see Wilbon beating up on Gibbs on PTI today. He called Gibbs the world biggest whinner in the NFL and made Gibbs out to be some conspirousy theorist. All for sending in tapes to the NFL. Whats the deal with that? I thought wilbon had our back and he attacks Gibbs like that?[/QUOTE]
Half the coaches do it every week!!!...Wonder whats up Wilbon's (_!_).
Thats not like him. Usually its cornholer!!!!

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=44deisel44]Half the coaches do it every week!!!...Wonder whats up Wilbon's (_!_).
Thats not like him. Usually its cornholer!!!![/QUOTE]
The both of them are idiots!!! They do not even deserve to have a show... :Flush:

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Dan LeBatard defended Gibbs on the show. I think a lot of times the guys on PTI argue just for the sake of arguing. I generally like Wilbon and PTI, though.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

I heard last night that the tapes were reviewed by the league and the results :

Alstott did NOT score
did not appear to be a push of Galloway to force him out of bounds
the center picked the ball up early, we were not offsides on the blocked EP
and TB was not called for an illegal motion penalty on a long pass that turned into a TD.

there are 4 calls that did not go our way. for a total of 17 points if you add them all up. I was arguing the point yesterday that we could not blame the loss on the refs, especially to two point conversion. However, when you add up what was wrong with the calls made, I have switched my opinion. The refs cost us some points and in the end : probably the game. I have never been a person to sit and blame refs for losing games, but 17 freakin points!!!!!
come on that is rediculous.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Where did you hear that #56?

If all those calls indeed were ruled in our favor, it's pretty disappointing and we definitely got royally screwed over by those horrible calls.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Yeah it is kind of hard if that is true not to say the refs cost us the game. We had some big plays on us, but when and if those calls cost us 17 points no team no matter the circumstances would have a difficult time overcoming. Replay needs to have a bigger involvement than it does because this year if any the refs are blowing some critical calls at critical times in the game. I said it before the league needs to step up to the plate and start fining these refs for blown calls, especially after replay. I mean some of these calls are what seems to be made up (phantom) hopefully the league does not read our posts and try to fine me my $5.00 which would probably be equivalent to the million dollar contracts. I would like to see some of the crews that are making these bogus calls and if their is any trends or consistency in their calls, home field calls, impact calls, on a average how many tapes are sent in a week and the rulings on those calls. Something has got to be done besides week after week saying damn we are sorry you should have won that game he didn't get in. Damn we see the playoff race is going to be tight this year sorry we cost you your 1st playoff visit since 1999 because you lost the tie breaker to the team we cost you the game to earlier in the season. I know calls are going to be missed on the field but replay should not have these errors and the rules to challenge pushed out and down by contact need to be changed.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

I'm seriously going to go on a rampage if the Skins end up having to be in a tie-breaker with Tampa Bay this year.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

What good does it do to "send in tapes" if you can't take the "L" out of the standings. The results are the same... "I'm sorry" doesn't get you into the playoffs at the end of the year. I appreciate the effort by Gibbs, maybe these Refs will learn and not make the mistake again. I sometimes feel like the "call on the field" is so golden, that the head ref is scared to overturn it. If everyone knows Alstott was not in, but the Ref still did not over turn it, after looking at it from 2 or 3 angles for 1 minute and a half, then later the NFL officals come out and say.... "Well we looked at it for 2-3 more minutes and it looks different now" Geez! We got screwed, just face it!!

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

True you can't take away the loss, but as a coach you can't sit back and let horrible calls like that go unnoticed by the league.

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One more thought on this and then I will quit thinking about Tampa and move on to the Raiders.... If someone would have told me the Skins would have put up 35 points on the Bucs last week, I would not have watched and put it down as a "W". Forget all of "bad calls" because there is no way that the Skins should have allowed Chris Simms and the Bucs to score 36 points. Maybe 17-21 but not 36. Our Defense lost the game for us, not the Refs.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=scowan]One more thought on this and then I will quit thinking about Tampa and move on to the Raiders.... If someone would have told me the Skins would have put up 35 points on the Bucs last week, I would not have watched and put it down as a "W". Forget all of "bad calls" because there is no way that the Skins should have allowed Chris Simms and the Bucs to score 36 points. Maybe 17-21 but not 36. Our Defense lost the game for us, not the Refs.[/QUOTE]

Did you see the previous response regarding the possible 17 point swing on the what the refs called on the field. If thats the case Tampa scores maybe 20.

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The defense AND the refs lost this one.

I don't see how we can just dismiss the 17 points that were handed to the Bucs on a silver platter.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Where did you hear that #56?

If all those calls indeed were ruled in our favor, it's pretty disappointing and we definitely got royally screwed over by those horrible calls.[/QUOTE]

A friend of mine who listens and reads everything there is to read in the sporting world that has to do with the Redskins saw it or read it last night. Not sure which of the two. But kinda puts things in perspective regarding the refs. They need to drop the Chickensh** act and call the plays. This crap of not enough evidence to overturn a call has got to stop. Most of those plays are coming against teams on the road. I guess they dont want a repeat of Cleveland or something. The refs are graded on how many calls are overturned due to replay. and the less that are overturned the better for the refs. When they make the "irrefutable evidense" call its basically saying the call was SO close that they just couldn't reverse it, which like I said at the end of the year is a plus for that ref crew. But in most of those calls, its very obvious the call on the field was wrong and they just dont want to change it, because that makes them look like a bad crew. Replay is just not getting it done this year. I have seen several calls that I thought no way could they uphold that call, then that famous saying, after review, yada yada yada, play stands as called on the field. what a cop out!

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When all is said in done our D gave up one big play after another and Sims played his best game as a QB. I will agree that the calls hurt our chances but if our D plays their game we still win and remember the turnovers in the first half gave them atleast 14 points.

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[QUOTE=#56fanatic]A friend of mine who listens and reads everything there is to read in the sporting world that has to do with the Redskins saw it or read it last night. Not sure which of the two. But kinda puts things in perspective regarding the refs. They need to drop the Chickensh** act and call the plays. This crap of not enough evidence to overturn a call has got to stop. Most of those plays are coming against teams on the road. I guess they dont want a repeat of Cleveland or something. The refs are graded on how many calls are overturned due to replay. and the less that are overturned the better for the refs. When they make the "irrefutable evidense" call its basically saying the call was SO close that they just couldn't reverse it, which like I said at the end of the year is a plus for that ref crew. But in most of those calls, its very obvious the call on the field was wrong and they just dont want to change it, because that makes them look like a bad crew. Replay is just not getting it done this year. I have seen several calls that I thought no way could they uphold that call, then that famous saying, after review, yada yada yada, play stands as called on the field. what a cop out![/QUOTE]

Instead of getting reviewed on how many calls are overturned or not, how about getting reviewed on how many they got right! What a novel idea.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]When all is said in done our D gave up one big play after another and Sims played his best game as a QB. I will agree that the calls hurt our chances but if our D plays their game we still win and remember the turnovers in the first half gave them atleast 14 points.[/QUOTE]


I do agree our D has to play better. However, as a coach Williams has to put our players in better positions. We can not send 7 or 8 guys at the end of game (one of those being our best corner) after the QB and leaving a rookie, 2nd string safety, and #2 corner on the outside one on one. That is bad playcalling!! Especially since these blitzes have NOT worked all day, and Simms was eating us alive everytime we blitzed him. Williams has to swallow some of that ego and adjust his game plan or defensive calls. This has been a problem for the last few games. No pressure on the blitz, means big plays down field.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=scowan]Instead of getting reviewed on how many calls are overturned or not, how about getting reviewed on how many they got right! What a novel idea.[/QUOTE]

What I was saying is one of factors, not 100% of determining how to rate them. The refs have a very difficult job in calling these games. Which is why there is replay, to HELP them on iffy calls or ones they just couldn't possibly seen. Which is why, alot of us fans feel, if replay is there they need to stop all the crap of saying no evidence to overturn. They are causing more problems with this than the calls they make on the field.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

I don't question GW bringing pressure, that's his MO and always has been. If you can't get to the QB when bringing extra guys you have to tip your hat to the Bucs for picking things up.

GW simply is not a passive coach who is going to sit back in coverage, he's going to come after you even when conventional wisdom says not to.

Personally I'd rather lose by being aggressive than to see a team dink and dunk their way down the field while you're in prevent mode.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I don't question GW bringing pressure, that's his MO and always has been. If you can't get to the QB when bringing extra guys you have to tip your hat to the Bucs for picking things up.

GW simply is not a passive coach who is going to sit back in coverage, he's going to come after you even when conventional wisdom says not to.

Personally I'd rather lose by being aggressive than to see a team dink and dunk their way down the field while you're in prevent mode.[/QUOTE]

I agree be aggressive, the D did give up big plays but like we have said all week it is many factors and saying the D cost us is wrong also. They got at least 14 of a very short field one from the five or so. 16 points by the refs 14 by turnovers and the short field. I guess 6 earned where they drove the field on our D. I would agree send Walt Harris or Carlos Rogers on the Blitz instead of Springs. Send those tapes and hope the league recognizes that these calls are killing the game in some instances. I don't ever rememebr it being that big of an issue except for the past two years this year in particular.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I don't question GW bringing pressure, that's his MO and always has been. If you can't get to the QB when bringing extra guys you have to tip your hat to the Bucs for picking things up.

GW simply is not a passive coach who is going to sit back in coverage, he's going to come after you even when conventional wisdom says not to.

Personally I'd rather lose by being aggressive than to see a team dink and dunk their way down the field while you're in prevent mode.[/QUOTE]


I dont really question the aggresivness, but the package I do. We blitzed Springs on that TD play, which I think was a mistake. Springs is our "shutdown" guy. If we were leaving anyone in single coverage, it should have been him, not Walt Harris.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=scowan]What good does it do to "send in tapes" if you can't take the "L" out of the standings. The results are the same... "I'm sorry" doesn't get you into the playoffs at the end of the year. I appreciate the effort by Gibbs, maybe these Refs will learn and not make the mistake again. I sometimes feel like the "call on the field" is so golden, that the head ref is scared to overturn it. If everyone knows Alstott was not in, but the Ref still did not over turn it, after looking at it from 2 or 3 angles for 1 minute and a half, then later the NFL officals come out and say.... "Well we looked at it for 2-3 more minutes and it looks different now" Geez! We got screwed, just face it!![/QUOTE]

It does do some good. The referees are graded based on their performance, and showing the league that they blew calls will make it far less likely that they will be invited to ref playoff contests or the Super Bowl. I'll personally be happy that these guys wont be there to screw us when we're playing in Detroit!!!

Redskins: Clearly Winning the Superbowl.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Springs also had 6 sacks last year, so he's proven to be an effective blitzer.

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[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I'm seriously going to go on a rampage if the Skins end up having to be in a tie-breaker with Tampa Bay this year.[/QUOTE]

You know if the 4 plays are admitted by NFL as being the wrong calls (which resulted in 17 points for Tampa), which they would have to admit cost the redskins the game (even just considering the 2 point conversion) - the nfl could atone for the refs' mistakes and award the redskins the tie-breaker if it comes down to Tampa Bay and the skins.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

Why oh why do you people who say our d lost the game continue to twist it like that. do you not see that they did in fact stop the buc's on the 2 point conv but the refs judged it wrong and when faced with proof theyr efused to change it.if they had the doo dads to call it right we win and we aren't whinning about this at all. it's the injustice that ticks me off. we go to a good teams house, they have the no.1 d in the league and we torch them. our d struggles to stop them, some of it has to do with things that should have been called.but, the fact remains that the refs blew 2 calls at the end of the game that lost it for us, the blocked kick and the stopping of alstott.it's hard to win in this league, and when the refs get into it and make terrible calls or non calls(home town calls)it's almost impossible.c'mon guys i know our d should have played better but the fact is they made the plays when it counted only to have stolen from them by bad officiating.i'm just soo tired of hearing the d lost the game when the issue is the they did rise up and make the play and were screwed.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=56FAN]Why oh why do you people who say our d lost the game continue to twist it like that. do you not see that they did in fact stop the buc's on the 2 point conv but the refs judged it wrong and when faced with proof theyr efused to change it.if they had the doo dads to call it right we win and we aren't whinning about this at all. it's the injustice that ticks me off. we go to a good teams house, they have the no.1 d in the league and we torch them. our d struggles to stop them, some of it has to do with things that should have been called.but, the fact remains that the refs blew 2 calls at the end of the game that lost it for us, the blocked kick and the stopping of alstott.it's hard to win in this league, and when the refs get into it and make terrible calls or non calls(home town calls)it's almost impossible.c'mon guys i know our d should have played better but the fact is they made the plays when it counted only to have stolen from them by bad officiating.i'm just soo tired of hearing the d lost the game when the issue is the they did rise up and make the play and were screwed.[/QUOTE]


I think our D has been giving up too many points in the last 3 or 4 games. 36 in two of the last 3. there were obvious factors to giving up these points, turnovers ect. However the fact remains we continue to give up big play after big play going back to the Seattle game. There are reasons for this that GW and his staff have to figure out. Our blitz packages have not been getting pressure on the QB, which has left us open to plays down the field. Either we have to figure out a new way to get pressure, or minimize our risks and blitz when its least anticipated. I do believe GW is a good coach, and Taylor not playing along with Griffin hurt our pressure game. But good teams and good defenses learn to do what thier personal allow. Example is New England when they had WR playing safety, they could not do alot of the thing they were use to doing, but found ways to be creative with the personel on the field. I believe we will figure those things out. We have good run stoppers on the line, but no pass rushers what so ever. We can not continue to think our LBs and CBs are the best option. Teams have started to adjust to our defesive schemes and its showing. Does not matter what happens, when you put up the numbers we did against a team with essentially a rookie QB playing we should not lose, no matter what happens. I said earlier that the refs did account for a "POSSIBLE" point swing of 17 points. It could have been 9 points if we hold them to field goals. We just need to stop the big plays that have been hurting us for 5 or 6 weeks. Once those stop, we will win a whole lot of the games left on our schedule.

Re: Joe Gibbs Sending tapes to NFL
 

[QUOTE=56FAN]Why oh why do you people who say our d lost the game continue to twist it like that. do you not see that they did in fact stop the buc's on the 2 point conv but the refs judged it wrong and when faced with proof theyr efused to change it.if they had the doo dads to call it right we win and we aren't whinning about this at all. it's the injustice that ticks me off. we go to a good teams house, they have the no.1 d in the league and we torch them. our d struggles to stop them, some of it has to do with things that should have been called.but, the fact remains that the refs blew 2 calls at the end of the game that lost it for us, the blocked kick and the stopping of alstott.it's hard to win in this league, and when the refs get into it and make terrible calls or non calls(home town calls)it's almost impossible.c'mon guys i know our d should have played better but the fact is they made the plays when it counted only to have stolen from them by bad officiating.i'm just soo tired of hearing the d lost the game when the issue is the they did rise up and make the play and were screwed.[/QUOTE]

While it's true they blocked the kick and stopped the two point conversion, the fact is they did let the Bucs march downfield and score a touchdown. So I don't think it's totally accurate to say they made the plays when it counted. All parties are to blame for the loss, including the defense

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]While it's true they blocked the kick and stopped the two point conversion, the fact is they did let the Bucs march downfield and score a touchdown. So I don't think it's totally accurate to say they made the plays when it counted. All parties are to blame for the loss, including the defense[/QUOTE]
i agree..all parties...

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[QUOTE=funandgunner]You know if the 4 plays are admitted by NFL as being the wrong calls (which resulted in 17 points for Tampa), which they would have to admit cost the redskins the game (even just considering the 2 point conversion) - the nfl could atone for the refs' mistakes and award the redskins the tie-breaker if it comes down to Tampa Bay and the skins.[/QUOTE]

Very true, but imagine the fallout of them doing that. If something like that were to happen, you'd NEVER know who won the game even after the final whistle because every team would find the most minute thing to look for that affected the game.

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Check out Dan Patrick's show (just starting). One segment today is how Joe got ripped off and has a legitimate bitch against the NFL officials costing the game last Sunday. I wonder how much Joe will get fined this time?

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[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Very true, but imagine the fallout of them doing that. If something like that were to happen, you'd NEVER know who won the game even after the final whistle because every team would find the most minute thing to look for that affected the game.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they're never going to do something like that. I don't think it is even allowed under the CBA and league rules. The best we can hope for is some friendly overly friendly officiating through the next 7 games.
This whole situation shows how instant replay simply needs more tweaking. I think it ought not be the head ref who reviews the replay but an NFL official. What's the point of having a ref who has bias built in deciding whether the guy he has spent the last 4 months with and is very good friends with got something wrong? I think it would be impossible to expect them to have a completely fair and unbalanced view. Get someone who doesn't mind revealing that the refs blew it.

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And also:

I understand that the Galloway play was unchallengable but the question is why???? I know the reason behind most of the unchallengable calls is that they are very subjective and rely on being in perfect position to make the call. A position that replay can't be relied on to have. But on that play it is pretty obvious whether a guy is pushed or not. What the hell is the point of it not being reviewable? I say make everything reviewable or nothing. Why leave half the decisions strictly to the refs and not the other half. You're saying you trust them to make the gray area calls right but not the black and white ones? That seems retarded.

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[QUOTE=FRPLG]Yeah they're never going to do something like that. I don't think it is even allowed under the CBA and league rules. The best we can hope for is some friendly overly friendly officiating through the next 7 games.
This whole situation shows how instant replay simply needs more tweaking. I think it ought not be the head ref who reviews the replay but an NFL official. What's the point of having a ref who has bias built in deciding whether the guy he has spent the last 4 months with and is very good friends with got something wrong? I think it would be impossible to expect them to have a completely fair and unbalanced view. Get someone who doesn't mind revealing that the refs blew it.[/QUOTE]

I think instant replay should be done away with permanently. It has not done what it was supposed to do, eliminate bad calls and controversy, and never will. Just let the refs on the field make the call, right or wrong, and move on.

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There ought to be a separate replay official in a dark booth up in the stadium, like they do for Hockey. My guess is having the ref try to do it himself under that "hood" leads to lots of blown calls and pressure to get it done quickly.

And I agree--they ought to pay the friggin refs and make them work all offseason to hone there skills. Why not? Are you telling me the NFL doesn't have the money to do so???

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[QUOTE=FRPLG]And also:

I understand that the Galloway play was unchallengable but the question is why???? I know the reason behind most of the unchallengable calls is that they are very subjective and rely on being in perfect position to make the call. A position that replay can't be relied on to have. But on that play it is pretty obvious whether a guy is pushed or not. What the hell is the point of it not being reviewable? I say make everything reviewable or nothing. Why leave half the decisions strictly to the refs and not the other half. You're saying you trust them to make the gray area calls right but not the black and white ones? That seems retarded.[/QUOTE]

I agree, that's the most frustrating part of the replay system, what's reviewable and what's not.

It should be all or nothing. Seems like the worst calls always come on the ones that can't be reviewed.

If they would have reviewed the so called push out on Galloway, any reasonable person would have overturned that in a second.

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[QUOTE=JWsleep]There ought to be a separate replay official in a dark booth up in the stadium, like they do for Hockey. My guess is having the ref try to do it himself under that "hood" leads to lots of blown calls and pressure to get it done quickly.

And I agree--they ought to pay the friggin refs and make them work all offseason to hone there skills. Why not? Are you telling me the NFL doesn't have the money to do so???[/QUOTE]

The NFL has the money to make the refs full time employees but they never will be because that would lead to an NFL referee union (like MLB) and all the problems that go along with dealing with a union.

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If we can't have Pro Refs then can we at least include some technology? It really isn't that much of a task to put RFID in the balls and use a hopped up GPS to track it.

No more questionable spots of the ball, no more goal line debates.

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[QUOTE=Hog1]Check out Dan Patrick's show (just starting). One segment today is how Joe got ripped off and has a legitimate bitch against the NFL officials costing the game last Sunday. I wonder how much Joe will get fined this time?[/QUOTE]

Yea, they say Ron Jaworski is coming on and agrees that we were not offsides and alstott was down. It would be interesting to see the replay of the x pt attempt again.