Talent Evaluation?
 

It's becoming more apparent that Gibbs is having a real tough time without a real genious in talent evaluation in Beathard at his side, he's finding out that it's much harder to do whatever you want on offense when you don't have an O-line that dominates opposing defensive lines everytime you take the field, yes Gibbs [ when injuries were not a factor ] enjoyed that kind advantage for a decade back in the 80's.

Now we spend 161 million dollars on 3 player's, Portis, Arrington, and Brunell, trade away next years draft for Campbell, and discard Ramsey who may at some point in his carreer prove to be the best of the bunch.

Guess what, it doesn't work without dominant lines, that is the key to football, offensive, and defensive line play, when you have that you don't need 68 million $ LB's, you don't need 50 mil $ RB's, and you don't need a 35 year old 43 mil $ QB, as the skins of the 80's proved time and again. Great lines make winners out of decent players, great D-lines keep blockers off your LB's, great O-lines open holes for decent RB's, they also allow your QB time to get comfortable and look downfield for recievers, while providing him a reliable running game.

Us? Well we now have probably the most talented trio of QB's in the league, while Williams tries week in and week out to figure out a way to stop offenses without a D-line, and guess what theres no help on the way because Gibbs just had to have Campbell, like he just had to have Portis, as well as Brunell!

And yes it's official Portis is even less talented than I thought when we traded for him, I have watched him to many times run right into the backs of our lineman and then cut to the hole that he should have hit instantly, not all our problems lie with our line with the running game, Portis is not a special back by any means.

It's to bad we gave up next years draft, I hear Gibbs is now interested in Dayne, and all denver want's is Sean Taylor, and a #2.

You can't win in the NFL if you can't evaluate, and draft winning talent, and other than Cooley, Taylor was a no brainer, in 2 years what do we really have through the draft? 3 players, one of which Rogers has yet to become a starter.

Yes Gibbs recieved all the glory, but it's becoming more apparent with every game that Beathard was greatly underestimated in the success that Gibbs enjoyed throughout the 80's.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

Where did you hear Gibbs was interested in Dayne?

The draft has been a big dissapointment through the past few years; Gibbs drafted a few players only to cut them the following year.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Bushead]Where did you hear Gibbs was interested in Dayne?

The draft has been a big dissapointment through the past few years; Gibbs drafted a few players only to cut them the following year.[/QUOTE]

If the Redskins even think about trading Sean Taylor away, I would walk away from the team I have loved all my life....please, the problem is that, lets play not to lose attitude....maybe we should, take some notes from the Bears.....play to win, and do whatever it takes

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

Sean Taylor and a #2 for Ron Dayne?
If we do that, we are retarded. Denver LOVES to trade with us.

I think you are right about the talent evaluation. Another thing to point out is that there was no salary cap during Gibbs I. If we locked up all that money in 56, 8, and 26, we would still be able to add some good, young D-Line men.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

Post a link of proof of what you've heard.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

offiss, behind the constant change in coaching, sub-par drafts are the main reasons for this organization hovering at or below the .500 mark since the 2000 season.

Snyder and Cerrato are pathetic judges of talent in the NFL today. If it's Gibbs truly calling the shots now in terms of personnel moves, then he has much to learn.

But I too would like to see a link about Gibbs' interest in Ron Dayne.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

I believe he was being sarcastic, with the way we have traded in the past. This offseason should tell alot, if we do not go after a good pass rushing DE in Free Agency I will have to throw in the towel on our handling of personnel. Not all bad but we are getting ripped even on the good deals. Moss has worked out, but at the expense of 9 mil where we could have picked up more talent or kept either Pierce or Smoot.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

I think losing Pierce really hurt the D. We give up too many big plays late in the game.
The O line is still disappointing. We cannot grind out the 1st downs when we have
the lead. We need to build through the draft, especially D line.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=heybigstar]Sean Taylor and a #2 for Ron Dayne?
If we do that, we are retarded. Denver LOVES to trade with us.

I think you are right about the talent evaluation. Another thing to point out is that there was no salary cap during Gibbs I. If we locked up all that money in 56, 8, and 26, we would still be able to add some good, young D-Line men.[/QUOTE]


He's being sarcastic about the ST/Ron Dayne trade.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

Has anyone else noticed that people on this site don't really get sarcasm?

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]offiss, behind the constant change in coaching, sub-par drafts are the main reasons for this organization hovering at or below the .500 mark since the 2000 season.

Snyder and Cerrato are pathetic judges of talent in the NFL today. If it's Gibbs truly calling the shots now in terms of personnel moves, then he has much to learn.

But I too would like to see a link about Gibbs' interest in Ron Dayne.[/QUOTE]

Is there anything or anyone you like in this organization? I am not questioning your "fanship" by any means, but you don't seem to care much for the coaching staff, front office, or any of our players.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

It becomes more and more obvious that the skins need a GM. They will continue to flounder until they fill this position.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

I agree we need to draft better especially in the later rounds where critical depth is built, but can anyone really argue with the majority of the player acquisitions since Gibbs came back?

From a pure talent standpoint, the team has been significantly upgraded with guys like Washington, Griffin, Moss, Portis, Springs, Brunell, etc, and these are players that have produced at Pro Bowl levels to boot.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

I have said that Joe was just the coach in the early 80's and 90's, and Casserly and Co. built the teams. Joe didn't really have much say in those matters then. I dont think he is totally to blame for personel issues. Brunnel has turned out to be, atleast this year, a quality QB and Portis had 1300 last year and will probably end up around that this year. I said in an earlier post, the personel isn't there for a Gibbs type of team. This is a team built for more finesse than power. Portis is awesome in space, draws , screens , swing passes not up the gut all the time. once in a while he may be able to find a hole, but not all the time. as usual, maybe next year!!

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I agree we need to draft better especially in the later rounds where critical depth is built, but can anyone really argue with the majority of the player acquisitions since Gibbs came back?

From a pure talent standpoint, the team has been significantly upgraded with guys like Washington, Griffin, Moss, Portis, Springs, Brunell, etc, and these are players that have produced at Pro Bowl levels to boot.[/QUOTE]

Matty, until we start winning, all those names mean nothing.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Matty, until we start winning, all those names mean nothing.[/QUOTE]

It certainly means something if we're going to sit here and say the talent level is a problem, which I'd argue it's not our main problem right now.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It certainly means something if we're going to sit here and say the talent level is a problem, which I'd argue it's not our main problem right now.[/QUOTE]
Yes, our main problem lately is the offense's inability to add crucial points to small leads late in the game when the defense is tired and vulnerable.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I agree we need to draft better especially in the later rounds where critical depth is built, but can anyone really argue with the majority of the player acquisitions since Gibbs came back?

From a pure talent standpoint, the team has been significantly upgraded with guys like Washington, Griffin, Moss, Portis, Springs, Brunell, etc, and these are players that have produced at Pro Bowl levels to boot.[/QUOTE]

How are we going to draft better when we dont have any early round picks? This team gives away draft picks like Santa Claus gives away presents.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Is there anything or anyone you like in this organization? I am not questioning your "fanship" by any means, but you don't seem to care much for the coaching staff, front office, or any of our players.[/QUOTE]

I like Joe Gibbs, but I don't like the way this team is performing under his guidance. I like Snyder's desire to win, but I don't like his and Cerrato's judgement of player personnel.

My opinion of the players varies from week to week.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=irish]How are we going to draft better when we dont have any early round picks? This team gives away draft picks like Santa Claus gives away presents.[/QUOTE]

Well, according to a lot of the "draft experts" around here the early picks are easy.

It's the later ones that we need improving on.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It certainly means something if we're going to sit here and say the talent level is a problem, which I'd argue it's not our main problem right now.[/QUOTE]

Since those guys arrived, this team has amassed a record of 11-16. That's what the players you mentioned have meant to this team. My criticism of Snyder and Cerrato is directed more to the players they've collected that surround that talent.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Well, according to a lot of the "draft experts" around here the early picks are easy.

It's the later ones that we need improving on.[/QUOTE]

I dont see the skins getting any real impact players in the later rounds. Why make it hard for themselves, just hang on to all your picks and grab the low hanging draft fruit thats "easy" to pick and hopr for the best with the less "easy" picks.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

I altimately think C.Casserly will be fired in houston in the offseason, if so what does everyone think about the possibilty of him coming back to Washington.

Not related but I think the skins biggest problem is they need to take more chances in games, and not try to rely on the deffense to win every game, because as we all know it is not working. They have to put each and every team they play away and not let them hang around every freekin week.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=irish]I dont see the skins getting any real impact players in the later rounds. Why make it hard for themselves, just hang on to all your picks and grab the low hanging draft fruit thats "easy" to pick and hopr for the best with the less "easy" picks.[/QUOTE]

That is what seperates the great teams from the rest, is finding gems in the lower rounds. Snyderratto has proven year after year of failure they are not able to find any great talent below the second round. You can not build a super bowl team on high draft picks and free agents alone, the salary cap will haunt you.
You need to get some cheap talent in the lower rounds of the draft, but great talent, not average guys. You must have cheap talent to round out the roster, add depth and create a great special teams unit.
Right now, if we lose Griffen or Jansen or Samuels or Sean Taylor our season is over. We have no depth to replace any one of them. All teams have injuries, and unlike last year, we are starting to get them this year.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]Has anyone else noticed that people on this site don't really get sarcasm?[/QUOTE]

yeah but i believe that it is hard to notice sarcasim in text, saying it with the exagerrations of voice make it easier to tell. :)

Now hasn't this topic been discussed to death, don't we have a hit miss group of people or something like that. Aren't we suppossed to talk about this in the offseason or atleast until the season is "over"?.....oh i get it :(

With the exeption of this years draft, because the players must prove themselves, i think we have done a hell of a job since gibbs got here. We do have a number one this year, we just used it allittle earlier, we picked up Campbell and he is now developed over some rook. We got rogers who showed all ya'll that he is the shiznitt yesterday

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Since those guys arrived, this team has amassed a record of 11-16. That's what the players you mentioned have meant to this team. My criticism of Snyder and Cerrato is directed more to the players they've collected that surround that talent.[/QUOTE]

That has been a consistently held belief in the Redskins' front office. Unfortunately, constantly turning the roster over alienates veterans, disrupts team chemistry, and kills a cap. I think we can get a lot more out of these guys if we give them time and trust. Look at what Shotty did with a God-awful roster in 2001. I'm willing to give Gibbs another season to get re-acquainted with the NFL and bring this team to the playoffs.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

do we all forget the(excuse my french) cluster**** that coach gibbs walked into when he came back?if we arent in the playoffs next year i would be shocked!with the cap the way it is,you just cant overhaul your team over night,it takes time.coach gibbs isnt in canton for nothing.lets have faith.week in and week out,we are right there.its coming guys its coming

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

I'll believe carlos is the shiznitt if he can stop bruce or fitz or boldin, the SD receivers suck and gates was hurt.

We've got decent talent, some is overpaid though, and our draft pick give aways and wasted picks (low rounders not making the team) are disturbing. I think we've improved though. Schotty won with a crappier team, spurrier made our roster worse two years in a row (lost a good Dline etc). We're still missing pieces, which sucks, but i don't think overall team talent is really our biggest problem right now.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Well, according to a lot of the "draft experts" around here the early picks are easy.

It's the later ones that we need improving on.[/QUOTE]


Sure do!!!!!!

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Since those guys arrived, this team has amassed a record of 11-16. That's what the players you mentioned have meant to this team. My criticism of Snyder and Cerrato is directed more to the players they've collected that surround that talent.[/QUOTE]

Well, the season isn't over with, and if we amass a 16-16 record after two seasons of rebuilding this team, that is certainly a step in the right direction.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Is there anything or anyone you like in this organization? I am not questioning your "fanship" by any means, but you don't seem to care much for the coaching staff, front office, or any of our players.[/QUOTE]


Well I like our cheerleaders. :headbange


In all seriousness, I am one of the guy's who does like Snyder, we have an owner who will do whatever to win, how many teams can say that? Further more he has handed the reigns over to Gibbs and allowed the buck to stop with him, to blame Snyder right now is popular but not fair.

I like G.Williams, tremendous coach, as for the players Cooley, Moss, Taylor, Washington, C.Clemons, Clark, Griffen, and of coarse both of our favorite, Ramsey. There are plenty of others I just usually focus in on the big money guy's who play like minimum wage players.

and yes I was kidding around about Dayne, I actually had a good laugh when I saw how many guys took that serious, sorry for the confusion. :biggthump

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Well I like our cheerleaders. :headbange

In all seriousness, I am one of the guy's who does like Snyder, we have an owner who will do whatever to win, how many teams can say that? Further more he has handed the reigns over to Gibbs and allowed the buck to stop with him, to blame Snyder right now is popular but not fair.

I like G.Williams, tremendous coach, as for the players Cooley, Moss, Taylor, Washington, C.Clemons, Clark, Griffen, and of coarse both of our favorite, Ramsey. There are plenty of others I just usually focus in on the big money guy's who play like minimum wage players.[/QUOTE]

Fair nuff.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Well I like our cheerleaders. :headbange


In all seriousness, I am one of the guy's who does like Snyder, we have an owner who will do whatever to win, how many teams can say that? Further more he has handed the reigns over to Gibbs and allowed the buck to stop with him, to blame Snyder right now is popular but not fair.

I like G.Williams, tremendous coach, as for the players Cooley, Moss, Taylor, Washington, C.Clemons, Clark, Griffen, and of coarse both of our favorite, Ramsey. There are plenty of others I just usually focus in on the big money guy's who play like minimum wage players.

and yes I was kidding around about Dayne, I actually had a good laugh when I saw how many guys took that serious, sorry for the confusion. :biggthump[/QUOTE]

I do appreciate what Dan does as far as spending cash to get players. However, like I said in a previous thread, we need a GM to make the decisions to what players to spend the cash on. We need better people evaluating talent, whether its free agent talent or college talent. Good teams build through the draft examples : Philly, NE, Cincinnati, Indy, Dallas, NY Giants, all these teams draft there current core or star players, then maybe they add a piece or two that brings them over the top, ala Philly last season w/ TO and Kearse. When we have Vinny, and Pepper Rogers, along w/ the Dan and Joe picking talent its just not a good mix. None of those guys are going to tell Joe that he is picking the wrong guy or trading away useful picks for OLD PLAYERS!.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss] Ramsey who may at some point in his carreer prove to be the best of the bunch. [/QUOTE]What in hell would drive someone to make such an outlandish comment? Ramsey will prove how good of a quarterback evaluator Steve Spurrier is at the pro level. (see Florida Gator QBs in NFL, also see All Players Drafted in Spurrier Era)

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skindogger47]What in hell would drive someone to make such an outlandish comment? Ramsey will prove how good of a quarterback evaluator Steve Spurrier is at the pro level. (see Florida Gator QBs in NFL, also see All Players Drafted in Spurrier Era)[/QUOTE]

Spurrier didn't want Ramsey. Snyderatto did.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]I'll believe carlos is the shiznitt if he can stop bruce or fitz or boldin, the SD receivers suck and gates was hurt.

We've got decent talent, some is overpaid though, and our draft pick give aways and wasted picks (low rounders not making the team) are disturbing. I think we've improved though. Schotty won with a crappier team, spurrier made our roster worse two years in a row (lost a good Dline etc). We're still missing pieces, which sucks, but i don't think overall team talent is really our biggest problem right now.[/QUOTE]

Spurrier had nothing to do with the D-line or the roster. Snyderatto did.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Well I like our cheerleaders. :headbange


In all seriousness, I am one of the guy's who does like Snyder, we have an owner who will do whatever to win, how many teams can say that? Further more he has handed the reigns over to Gibbs and allowed the buck to stop with him, to blame Snyder right now is popular but not fair.

I like G.Williams, tremendous coach, as for the players Cooley, Moss, Taylor, Washington, C.Clemons, Clark, Griffen, and of coarse both of our favorite, Ramsey. There are plenty of others I just usually focus in on the big money guy's who play like minimum wage players.

and yes I was kidding around about Dayne, I actually had a good laugh when I saw how many guys took that serious, sorry for the confusion. :biggthump[/QUOTE]


Not sure why you dislike coach Gibbs so much, but you have your opinion. I will agree that Snyder has done what he thought was necessary to try to bring this team back to its winning ways, but up to this point, he has made all the wrong moves. I believe Snyder is finally starting to grow as an NFL owner and I believe he has learned alot of hard lessons since his first year in the league.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Spurrier had nothing to do with the D-line or the roster. Snyderatto did.[/QUOTE]

wrong wrong wrong. Spurrier used a pick on taylor, spurrier thought byron chamberlain was a good idea, spurrier brought in matthews and the other gator qb, among others. To say spurrier had NOTHING to do with the roster is just dumb.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]wrong wrong wrong. Spurrier used a pick on taylor, spurrier thought byron chamberlain was a good idea, spurrier brought in matthews and the other gator qb, among others. To say spurrier had NOTHING to do with the roster is just dumb.[/QUOTE]


The rumor was when SS took over he approached Snyder about a particular personel move and Snyder told him to worry about his coaching.

Re: Talent Evaluation?
 

[QUOTE=skindogger47]What in hell would drive someone to make such an outlandish comment? Ramsey will prove how good of a quarterback evaluator Steve Spurrier is at the pro level. (see Florida Gator QBs in NFL, also see All Players Drafted in Spurrier Era)[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes: