Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

Sally Jenkins' recent boneheaded article got me thinking, "What is our strength of schedule?" It turns out that our opponents combined records thus far is 82-60. Pretty tough. Plus, we have faced 4 of the league's 8 division leaders (Chicago, Seattle, Denver, and the Giants) and split such games (beating Chicago and Seattle and losing to Denver and the Giants).

We are beating and losing to some pretty darn good teams. The only team that beat us that shouldn't have beaten us is Oakland. Oakland aside, the combined record of the teams that beat us is a [B]whopping 41-19. [/B] Moreover, with the notable exception of the Giants game, those losses have been decided by the last play of the game.

In short, we are at worst an average team and at best, an above average team that has faced, and lost to, some damn fine opponents.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

I say...we are what we are, a 6-6 ball club. If we had lost those games more convisingly (that we were actually a worse team), then I would say we fell victim to our record. Outside of the Cheifs and Giants games, we pretty much outplayed all our opponents but couldnt finish the job. Therefore, I think we are what we are.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

:iamwithst I agree with Gmac If if werent for turnovers and penalties we would have a better record. Those reasons being Nobodys fault but theirs they are what they are. (sorry I voted the other way tho)

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

According to NFL.com we have a .577 strength of schedule which is good for the second hardest in the NFL this year(Poor Houston has a .601). Our strength of victory is good for 3rd. So we have officially played a pretty hard schedule this year. The good news is that of the remaining NFC teams in the hunt we have the easiest strength of schedule prior to this weekend, All this adds up to diddly poo as Jim Mora Sr, would say. Just win our next four and we're almost guranteed to be in.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

Actually, part of what makes our strength of schedule hard is that WE lost games, making our opponents record stronger, at least as you look back over the season (not sure if that's clear--sorry!).

Anyway, wins talk, everything else walks--we're 6-6 because we have a bad TO ratio, couldn't hold some late leads, and have trouble on 3rd-and-short at crucial moments. No one to blame but our selves--if we take care of our own house, our record will improve.

(I'm not saying anyone disagrees with that, just that it's hard for me to see much in this strength of schedule thing.)

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

We're a better team than the record but not by a ton.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Actually, part of what makes our strength of schedule hard is that WE lost games, making our opponents record stronger, at least as you look back over the season (not sure if that's clear--sorry!).[/QUOTE]

That's a good point - I wonder how it works out when you subtract your own losses from your opponents' wins?

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

We are what we are, an average team. Good teams don't beat themselves and don't let themselves be put in position to lose close games due to referee errors, coaching decisions and fate.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]We are what we are, an average team. Good teams don't beat themselves and don't let themselves be put in position to lose close games due to referee errors, coaching decisions and fate.[/QUOTE]

I agree - all but three of our games have been close, and we have won some and lost some. We could easily have won more, but we didn't. We could easily have lost more, but we didn't. 6-6 sounds about right.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

We have won almost as many close games as we have lost, but here are my thoughts.

We are better than our record simply because Alstott did not get in. We won.
We are better on offense than we were last year.
We have had one hell of a tough schedule and are still alive to make the playoffs.

If we go 9-7, I would be happy. We need another receiver and a couple of d-linemen to be dominant.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Actually, part of what makes our strength of schedule hard is that WE lost games, making our opponents record stronger, at least as you look back over the season (not sure if that's clear--sorry!).

Anyway, wins talk, everything else walks--we're 6-6 because we have a bad TO ratio, couldn't hold some late leads, and have trouble on 3rd-and-short at crucial moments. No one to blame but our selves--if we take care of our own house, our record will improve.

(I'm not saying anyone disagrees with that, just that it's hard for me to see much in this strength of schedule thing.)[/QUOTE]

We lost as many games as we won, so it's a push when it comes to our opponents' strength of schedule.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]According to NFL.com we have a .577 strength of schedule which is good for the second hardest in the NFL this year(Poor Houston has a .601). Our strength of victory is good for 3rd. So we have officially played a pretty hard schedule this year. The good news is that of the remaining NFC teams in the hunt we have the easiest strength of schedule prior to this weekend, All this adds up to diddly poo as Jim Mora Sr, would say. Just win our next four and we're almost guranteed to be in.[/QUOTE]

It's always nice to see people use facts in support of their arguments.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

if we are a better team than our record indicates,than running the table is not out of the question.im not sold on eli manning and the giants.but i am impressed with their defense.i think plaxico is big time over rated

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

We've definitely had a killer schedule and went toe to toe with some of the best teams in the league.

If we could have only come out of the AFC West games with a split we'd be in great position for the playoffs right now.

There's no doubt this team has lost some tough games, but in the end they only have themselves to blame. Good teams don't beat themselves with penalties and turnovers week after week.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]We've definitely had a killer schedule and went toe to toe with some of the best teams in the league.

If we could have only come out of the AFC West games with a split we'd be in great position for the playoffs right now.

There's no doubt this team has lost some tough games, but in the end they only have themselves to blame. Good teams don't beat themselves with penalties and turnovers week after week.[/QUOTE]
Article in the Wash. Times today points out that with a win in one more game (7-5) we'd be in position for the final playoff spot in the NFC. I like our schedule down the stretch rather than some of the other team's schedules. We own all tiebreakers so 9-7 may get us in if we can win 3-1. The only loss that won't hurt us too badly is the Giants loss but we need to sweep the Cowboys and beat the Eagles to ensure the best conference record.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]if we are a better team than our record indicates,than running the table is not out of the question.im not sold on eli manning and the giants.but i am impressed with their defense.i think plaxico is big time over rated[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on that one. Everyone is like, "Wow, the Giants have so many weapons." What's different from us and them besides the fact that they can actually close out games?

Cooley is our Shockey
Portis is our Barber
Brunell is better than Manning in my opinion so that's an advantage we hold there
Moss is better than Burress
Both teams have great defenses

What makes them so explosive? It's because they are on the better part of the turnover differential is what makes the difference, namely because they have a great pass rush.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

The best thing about our schedule going forward is that out of our 4 remaining games, the two toughest games are at home, Boys and G-men, and the easiest are on the road, Cards and Eagles. That is the best we could hope for at this point. We should Win on the road and hopefully win at home. The Giants are good, but the Boys have fallen lately. 3-1 may not get us in, but I think 4-0 will.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

If were no better than our record, then we would be The Houston Texans. They are getting blown out weekly. We are not. They are in disarray. We are a few players away from legitimacy. The difference of being better than your record is similar to the difference between Joe Gibbs, and Bill Parcells. At the end of their contracts, they will be happy to see Parcells go (as always). We'll be begging Joe to stay!

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

STOP! BEFORE READING ANY FURTHER, PLEASE REMOVE YOUR "REDSKINS ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS" FANTASY HELMETS. Haven't we ALL played the game of "if we win these games and XXX loses these games - We will be in!!" long enough???

34 people (when I voted) said that we are better than our record. Damn it. Hard schedule, soft schedule doesn't matter. It is nice that people back their arguments with facts (i.e. the strength of schedule stats) but here are the facts that trump all others - Wins matter. Right now we have six. If we win next week, we will have seven.

Last year we convinced ourselves we were good enough to be in the play-offs practically to the last couple weeks - If we were mathmatically alive, then, by God, we should make it 'cause we so much better then our record.

Well folks, we are not better than our record. We ARE our record. I am tired of trying to convince myself that this is a playoff team. Until they prove it, by winning the games they need to win (not just that their supposed to win), I am avoiding the "P" word.

As I have said in another post - I intend to enjoy the last few weeks of the season b/c this team, for the first time in a long time, is playing and acting like a TEAM both on and, apparently, off the field. Unlike Spurrier's teams, they don't quit and I don't expect them to quit EVEN IF we are eliminated from the playoffs earlier than the last couple of games. I would love to see them sweep the remaing division games but for now, I just want a win, and a good solid game, over Arizona. We have won just two away games this year, and, since opening 3-0, have not won two in a row. ANY expectations beyond the sure and certain hope of a victory over Arizona, in Arizona, are simply premature and unwarranted delusions of granduer.

I will now stop channelling SportsCrumudgeon.

Go 'Skins beat the Cardinals.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Actually, part of what makes our strength of schedule hard is that WE lost games, making our opponents record stronger, at least as you look back over the season (not sure if that's clear--sorry!).

Anyway, wins talk, everything else walks--we're 6-6 because we have a bad TO ratio, couldn't hold some late leads, and have trouble on 3rd-and-short at crucial moments. No one to blame but our selves--if we take care of our own house, our record will improve.

(I'm not saying anyone disagrees with that, just that it's hard for me to see much in this strength of schedule thing.)[/QUOTE]I would attribute some of the Texans' strength of schedule to their number of losses, but as a .500 team, I think you can toss that out. Their is no doubt that we have had the hardest schedule in the NFL (next to the Saints) to this point if you look at who we've lost to and where. That said, we still have a ways to go, and must address the problems you mentioned.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]STOP! BEFORE READING ANY FURTHER, PLEASE REMOVE YOUR "REDSKINS ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS" FANTASY HELMETS. Haven't we ALL played the game of "if we win these games and XXX loses these games - We will be in!!" long enough???

34 people (when I voted) said that we are better than our record. Damn it. Hard schedule, soft schedule doesn't matter. It is nice that people back their arguments with facts (i.e. the strength of schedule stats) but here are the facts that trump all others - Wins matter. Right now we have six. If we win next week, we will have seven.

Last year we convinced ourselves we were good enough to be in the play-offs practically to the last couple weeks - If we were mathmatically alive, then, by God, we should make it 'cause we so much better then our record.

Well folks, we are not better than our record. We ARE our record. I am tired of trying to convince myself that this is a playoff team. Until they prove it, by winning the games they need to win (not just that their supposed to win), I am avoiding the "P" word.

As I have said in another post - I intend to enjoy the last few weeks of the season b/c this team, for the first time in a long time, is playing and acting like a TEAM both on and, apparently, off the field. Unlike Spurrier's teams, they don't quit and I don't expect them to quit EVEN IF we are eliminated from the playoffs earlier than the last couple of games. I would love to see them sweep the remaing division games but for now, I just want a win, and a good solid game, over Arizona. We have won just two away games this year, and, since opening 3-0, have not won two in a row. ANY expectations beyond the sure and certain hope of a victory over Arizona, in Arizona, are simply premature and unwarranted delusions of granduer.

I will now stop channelling SportsCrumudgeon.

Go 'Skins beat the Cardinals.[/QUOTE]

I think you sound an awful lot like SportsCurmudgeon. Are you sure that you are not operating under a pseudonym?

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

It is very simple to say, “we are what we are…a 6-6 team.” I think we all realize that our record ultimately determines whether we get into the playoffs. However, it is very simplistic to judge the quality of a team by examining a W-L column.

If a team lost all 22 starters but still managed to squeeze out an 10-6 record, I would say that team is better than 10-6. If a team spiked opponents’ Gatorade coolers with heavy doses of barbiturates but still only managed to win 5 games, I would say that team is awful. If Commissioner Tagliabue made all of a team’s games home games, I would say that their record might be inflated. If the Eagles were ordered to play all of their games against the Texans and they went 4-12, I would say the Eagles really stink.

The bottom line is, it’s easy and sexy to say that the record is the ONLY way to determine the quality of a team. It’s also incredibly simplistic to take that approach. As I said earlier, for purposes of determining who gets into the playoffs, the W-L column is all that matters. But, if you don’t take into account the strength of schedule in assessing how “good” a team is, I think you are being pretty simplistic.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

Our schedule is MUCH harder than last year, but we are our record. We lost close games we should have won consistantly. yesterday we couldn't pass at all (luckily we didn't need to). Our play calling is too conservative later on and this mistake free mantra is generally unattainable so not being afraid to score points would be nice.

even if we end at 6-10, we're much better than last year, but its still a flawed team (WR #2, DE, QB is solid but not good, CB #3).

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]The bottom line is, it’s easy and sexy to say that the record is the ONLY way to determine the quality of a team. It’s also incredibly simplistic to take that approach. As I said earlier, for purposes of determining who gets into the playoffs, the W-L column is all that matters. But, if you don’t take into account the strength of schedule in assessing how “good” a team is, I think you are being pretty simplistic.[/QUOTE]

What can I say, simple things for simple minds. Actually, in this case, I believe the simpler the logic is the more profound approach. Yes, the stats and strength of schedule give interesting comparisons to other teams.

BUT - Because the bottom line in this game is determined by actually winning games, by relying on anything other than the record to determine your greatness or mediocrity in comparison to other teams, you begin a process of, at best, making excuses, and, at worst, self-deception:

We are few dumb mistakes from being good.
Boy those refs screwed us.
If the ball had just bounced our way.

In each case, you make or allow yourself an out from self-improvement (even the "dumb mistakes" one b/c the usual response is "I/we just need to concentrate more", If more concentration was all it REALLY took to win, then I think their would be a lot more concentration going on - I mean really, did the Pats win the SB three times b/c they concetrated more?? No - they did ALL the things good/winning teams do. A feat we have yet to duplicate).

I am not just saying that making the playoffs equals a good team, what makes a good team is winning and doing what it takes to win - regardless of the bad bounces, the teams you play, or the refs calls. Once a team starts to believe that anything other than a failure to strive for perfection is responsible for losing, that team is on the road to losing. On that account, I think the Skins are walking a fine line.

Regardless of these various factors - good teams win more than they lose. We have not demonstrated an ability to do that. For the Skins, regardless of the circumstances, we win as often as we lose.

Good teams win more often than they lose regardless of the circumstances. Bad teams lose more often than they win regardless of the circumstances.

simple, schmimple - my logic, as always, is deeply DEEPLY profound. Your are probably just to simplistic to understand my depth. :laughing2

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

JoeRedskin,

Are the Bears (9-3) a better team than the Chargers (8-4) or Steelers (7-5)? Even with that great defense, they are not as good as either of those two teams. Are the Bucs (8-4) a better team than the Steelers (7-5)? Again, even with that defense, the Bucs aren’t as good as the Steelers.

Also, if a team’s record tells us how good a team is, why is it that the Redskins (6-6) were able to beat the Cowboys (7-5), the Bears (9-3), and the Seahawks (10-2)?

And, if the team with the better record beats a team with the worse record, why is it that week in and week out teams beat other teams with better records?

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

I think we are better. But not that much.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]JoeRedskin,

Are the Bears (9-3) a better team than the Chargers (8-4) or Steelers (7-5)? Even with that great defense, they are not as good as either of those two teams. Are the Bucs (8-4) a better team than the Steelers (7-5)? Again, even with that defense, the Bucs aren’t as good as the Steelers.

Also, if a team’s record tells us how good a team is, why is it that the Redskins (6-6) were able to beat the Cowboys (7-5), the Bears (9-3), and the Seahawks (10-2)?

And, if the team with the better record beats a team with the worse record, why is it that week in and week out teams beat other teams with better records?[/QUOTE]

In my opinion, yes - b/c the only truly objective standard to judge them by is the bottom line. Right now, today, Chicago is a better team than the Steelers, Bucs and San Diego. They have won more than they lost and won more than any of the teams you have mentioned. You're statements that the Steelers and San Diego are better than Chicago are purely subjective opinion. You can analyze any way you want but the ONLY objective measurement is wins and losses.

Have we beaten teams with winning records, yup. Do good teams beat bad teams, yup. Does that change the bottom line. Nope.

It is a simple statement that, in my opinion, your examples don't disprove. Regardless of the circumstances, good teams win more than they lose. The more you win the better you are.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

JoeRedskin,

I think we are talking past each other. I understand that you are saying that a club's record is all that matters when it comes to the playoffs and whether a team had a successful season. I don't dispute that. I am simply saying that club records don't always reveal how "good" a team is.

Given that you think a record is the "be all, end all," do you therefore disagree with power rankings? After all, there are a lot of teams with identical records. Yet all the teams are ranked in one of the 32 spots on a power poll.
Sometimes even, a club with a great record (i.e. 9-3) is ranked lower than a team with a worse record (i.e. 8-4). How do you feel about those kind of polls?

I know the easy answer to the above question is, "I don't care about polls and rankings, I care about the W-L column and who's in the playoffs." But seriously, do you think that it is impossible to come to different conclusions about the "quality" (and future chances of success) for two teams with identical records?

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]JoeRedskin,

I think we are talking past each other. I understand that you are saying that a club's record is all that matters when it comes to the playoffs and whether a team had a successful season. I don't dispute that. I am simply saying that club records don't always reveal how "good" a team is.

Given that you think a record is the "be all, end all," do you therefore disagree with power rankings? After all, there are a lot of teams with identical records. Yet all the teams are ranked in one of the 32 spots on a power poll.
Sometimes even, a club with a great record (i.e. 9-3) is ranked lower than a team with a worse record (i.e. 8-4). How do you feel about those kind of polls?

I know the easy answer to the above question is, "I don't care about polls and rankings, I care about the W-L column and who's in the playoffs." But seriously, do you think that it is impossible to come to different conclusions about the "quality" (and future chances of success) for two teams with identical records?[/QUOTE]

Teams are as good as their record and teams with the same records are exactly as good as each other. By the way, the earth is flat. :duel:

Actually, I don't disagree with "rankings". I just think they are subjective opinions based on nothing more than the particular writer's biases.
I understand your point and agree that not all 7-5 teams are created equal. I also think, however, that unless and until a team wins consistently it can't be considered a "good" team and teams that lose regulary are "bad". The start of this thread was are the Redskins better than their record. I stand by my answer original answer "NO" - they are as good and no better or worse than their record.

Going to bed now. Since you're just to damn pig-headed to admit the insanity of your ludicrous position, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. ;)

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

I think we are a decent team. We have had a really tough schedule so far. But if we hadn't turned the ball over and made mistakes, we'd have a winning record right now.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]Teams are as good as their record and teams with the same records are exactly as good as each other. By the way, the earth is flat. :duel:

Actually, I don't disagree with "rankings". I just think they are subjective opinions based on nothing more than the particular writer's biases.
I understand your point and agree that not all 7-5 teams are created equal. I also think, however, that unless and until a team wins consistently it can't be considered a "good" team and teams that lose regulary are "bad". The start of this thread was are the Redskins better than their record. I stand by my answer original answer "NO" - they are as good and no better or worse than their record.

Going to bed now. Since you're just to damn pig-headed to admit the insanity of your ludicrous position, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. ;)[/QUOTE]

Fair enough for me. My hands are getting tired.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

i'd judge better and worse teams as far as who i think could beat who... last year we'd be around 20 and this year we'd be closer to 10...

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

JoeRedskin and RamseyFan I think you are arguing two different points about two different things. Joe seems to be arguing that here and now a team with a 9-3 is "better" than a team with an 8-4 record. Whereas RamseyFan is arguing that a record does not necessarily reflect the quality of that team when compared to another team. I'd agree with both of you that here and now it doesn't matter how "good" we are in the latter sense since all that matters is our record in the end but I do believe we are capable of having a better record if we had played an easier schedule. The main point of this thread I took to be: How capable are we? rather than: What is our record? If we want to discuss the validity of having such a discussion on what capabilities our team has in certain situations(ie: an easier schedule, less injuries, etc..) I'd say it is simply a fun little exercise not be taken too seriously but it at least gives us a base for hope going foward and can put into perspective our past performances.

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

I was so HAPPY the skins finally got back on track this past sunday. And i hope portis will read the thread asking about whether he is going to break stephen daviss record...And take it personally.

My prediction: portis does read the thread. Comes in seeing red on sunday...and slices and dices through a pourous arizona defense...for 421 yards...reaching the 1500 yard mark as of next sunday...lol

Re: Redskins' Strength of Schedule: We Are A Decent Team
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]JoeRedskin and RamseyFan I think you are arguing two different points about two different things. Joe seems to be arguing that here and now a team with a 9-3 is "better" than a team with an 8-4 record. Whereas RamseyFan is arguing that a record does not necessarily reflect the quality of that team when compared to another team. I'd agree with both of you that here and now it doesn't matter how "good" we are in the latter sense since all that matters is our record in the end but I do believe we are capable of having a better record if we had played an easier schedule. The main point of this thread I took to be: How capable are we? rather than: What is our record? If we want to discuss the validity of having such a discussion on what capabilities our team has in certain situations(ie: an easier schedule, less injuries, etc..) I'd say it is simply a fun little exercise not be taken too seriously but it at least gives us a base for hope going foward and can put into perspective our past performances.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for saying what I couldn't/didn't.