Coles vs. Moss update
 

Coles: 57 catches, 612 yards, 10.7 avg, 2 TD.

Moss: 66 catches, 1111 yards, 16.8 avg, 6 TD.

Remind me again who get the better end of this deal!! ;)

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I will eat (some) crow and say that Moss is FAR better than I expected. Moss was an unknown quantity in the league and Gibbs & Co. did a good job scouting him.

I do think that Coles is better than people give him credit for. Coles is one tough MF with the heart to plow ahead after contact. It's tough to evaluate his worth given the state of the New York Jets. Nevertheless, Moss is a stud and I do the trade again in a heartbeat (even though I'd like to have both Coles and Moss).

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

And supposedly, we have the worst front office/scout team. Geez we need a GM! :Smoker:

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]And supposedly, we have the worst front office/scout team. Geez we need a GM! :Smoker:[/QUOTE]I don't think everyone hates the moves or players we go after. They hate the hugh contracts that they give players and the picks we give up for a player. Like in the Portis/Bailey trade did we realy have to give up a 2nd round pick in the trade. I get the feeling like we let others dictate the terms of the trades or contracts and we just say OK that good for us. I have said in the past that maybe we need a tough negotiator to help with these deals. it takes a special tallent to be a good negotiator and its obvious we do not have anyone in our front office with these skills.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan] (even though I'd like to have both Coles and Moss).[/QUOTE]

ditto

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Unless you were there at the negotiations between Dan and the Broncos, who really knows what went down. There seems to be this assumption that we just threw in the 2nd rounder for good measure. Snyder seems like he probably knows a thing or two in how to negotiate. He didn't build an empire by being a pushover.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I think Coles abandoned ship one year too early. The irony of the whole thing is he was disgruntled with our passing game among other things, and since being in NY they've pretty much been unstable at the QB position which has affected his downfield play.

But who knew???

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I was going to point out to that it is tough to judge Coles on this season considering they don't have anyone to get him the ball. I still prefer Moss, but I don't think that it's fair to judge Coles on his performance this season

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

True, the Jets stink and so does their QB situation, but as some like to say with the win-loss records, you are what you are, and right now Moss >> Coles. :)

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I will eat (some) crow and say that Moss is FAR better than I expected. Moss was an unknown quantity in the league and Gibbs & Co. did a good job scouting him.

I do think that Coles is better than people give him credit for. Coles is one tough MF with the heart to plow ahead after contact. It's tough to evaluate his worth given the state of the New York Jets. Nevertheless, Moss is a stud and I do the trade again in a heartbeat (even though I'd like to have both Coles and Moss).[/QUOTE]

I'm with him. I still think Coles is a good reciver but I could not have been more wrong about this deal.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I will eat (some) crow and say that Moss is FAR better than I expected. Moss was an unknown quantity in the league and Gibbs & Co. did a good job scouting him.

I do think that Coles is better than people give him credit for. Coles is one tough MF with the heart to plow ahead after contact. It's tough to evaluate his worth given the state of the New York Jets. Nevertheless, Moss is a stud and I do the trade again in a heartbeat (even though I'd like to have both Coles and Moss).[/QUOTE]

Good call stepping to the plate RF. Moss is EVERYTHING we [b]wanted[/b] Coles to be. I don't know if Coles is that tough or not? I'm not close enough the situation. He did not produce-always the toe problem, which he refused to do anything about. Maybe Brunell could not get him the ball? Seems to me it is more Coles. having a lousy year in the NY-albeit lousy team. I do however know..............Moss is KICKIN" ASS!!!!!!!!!

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I was a big Coles fan last year, but Santana Moss is our hero. We definitely got the better end of the deal.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Good call stepping to the plate RF. Moss is EVERYTHING we [b]wanted[/b] Coles to be. I don't know if Coles is that tough or not? I'm not close enough the situation. He did not produce-always the toe problem, which he refused to do anything about. Maybe Brunell could not get him the ball? Seems to me it is more Coles. having a lousy year in the NY-albeit lousy team. I do however know..............Moss is KICKIN" ASS!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]
Brunell couldn't get him the ball? He had over 90 catches his last season here.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Coles was damaged goods. After he injured his toe he was never the same. Great move to dump him for Moss.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=dblanch66]Brunell couldn't get him the ball? He had over 90 catches his last season here.[/QUOTE]

Just politically correct thought, D66. apologies!

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]I don't think everyone hates the moves or players we go after. They hate the hugh contracts that they give players and the picks we give up for a player. Like in the Portis/Bailey trade did we realy have to give up a 2nd round pick in the trade. I get the feeling like we let others dictate the terms of the trades or contracts and we just say OK that good for us. I have said in the past that maybe we need a tough negotiator to help with these deals. it takes a special tallent to be a good negotiator and its obvious we do not have anyone in our front office with these skills.[/QUOTE]
Good point about the contracts. Coles was a good signing at the time but does anyone remember the HUGE signing bonus we gave him. That money would come in handy right about now

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=12thMan]I think Coles abandoned ship one year too early. The irony of the whole thing is he was disgruntled with our passing game among other things, and since being in NY they've pretty much been unstable at the QB position which has affected his downfield play.

But who knew???[/QUOTE]

Right on the mark! The Moss v. Cole stats are interesting, but not really useful for comparing the two. The loss of Pennington meant Coles' numbers would be less no matter what. I suspect we have not heard the full story of why Coles wanted to leave. But I don't want anyone who didn't want to be here.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Coles just doesn't have the moves or quickness that Moss does in the open field, plus I've been impressed with the sharp routes Moss runs. He cuts on a dime and doesn't lose any speed, the guy has been a real find.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I also have to admit I was pretty upset with the move, although I was definitely willing to give Santana a shot to be more of a threat than "Toe" Coles.

There has been one thing that has been VERY negative about the Moss-Coles trade in my opinion. My friend was so thrilled about the deal, talked up Moss so much, said we were all fools and had no idea what a steal we were getting, that Moss was exactly what we needed, etc...basically he was dead on while all of us were questioning the move. Now the problem is that I tailgate with him AND watch the away games with him and have to hear it ALL THE TIME how he was right!!!

Im kidding of course -- Id take any amount of "I-told-you-so" for an improved Skins team!

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Coles also just ran his route and if the qb was in trouble he just kept running it. moss breaks off his route to give his qb a option to throw to.we are better off without him.he had other issues as well,head issues kind of like t.o.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=56FAN]Coles also just ran his route and if the qb was in trouble he just kept running it. moss breaks off his route to give his qb a option to throw to.we are better off without him.he had other issues as well,head issues kind of like t.o.[/QUOTE]

Well, I wouldn't mention TO with anyone else....he's in a category of his own. But I get what you're saying. Thing with Coles is that he internalized much of his frustration for a while until it became visibly noticable. Then he had to go.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Good call stepping to the plate RF. Moss is EVERYTHING we [b]wanted[/b] Coles to be. I don't know if Coles is that tough or not? I'm not close enough the situation. He did not produce-always the toe problem, which he refused to do anything about. Maybe Brunell could not get him the ball? Seems to me it is more Coles. having a lousy year in the NY-albeit lousy team. I do however know..............Moss is KICKIN" ASS!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

I always step up and eat crow when my predictions/comments are wrong. I'd be an idiot if I didn't reevaluate my positions in the face of facts. I stepped up and said Brunell is far better than I thought after bashing him last year and early this season. In fact, I think I've become one of Brunell's stronger supporters on this site.

Thanks for noticing/appreciating that I am willing eat crow.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

coles is one hell of a "possesion" receiver.nothing wrong with that but the skins envisioned him as a playmaker(see s moss)he also complained alot about the offense and not getting the ball enough.i read somewhere the other day,that last year coles was thrown to over 125 times,which was THIRD in the entire league.wether its his toe,or what ever it is,he lack explosiveness after he caught the ball.his toughness was never a question,coles is as tough as they come.this might have been a trade were we shouldve thrown in a second rounder.great trade for the skins

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I always step up and eat crow when my predictions/comments are wrong. I'd be an idiot if I didn't reevaluate my positions in the face of facts. I stepped up and said Brunell is far better than I thought after bashing him last year and early this season. In fact, I think I've become one of Brunell's stronger supporters on this site.

Thanks for noticing/appreciating that I am willing eat crow.[/QUOTE]

It was a prop!

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

i even like santana's on-field demeanor. he's just quiet and professional the entire game. that's why when he got that penalty last week i figured it was somethin that really got to him bc you never see him "go off" like that.

i don't think he even went too wild after his game-winning TD in the dallas game... he's sort of like... "uhhh; what'd you expect"

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]It was a prop![/QUOTE]

I know, I wasn't being sarcastic. Thanks.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Unless you were there at the negotiations between Dan and the Broncos, who really knows what went down. There seems to be this assumption that we just threw in the 2nd rounder for good measure. Snyder seems like he probably knows a thing or two in how to negotiate. He didn't build an empire by being a pushover.[/QUOTE]


I agree, and I don't think that second rounder should be considered as a throw-in because we were going to loose Bailey anyway. The deal probaly could not have been consumated without the draft choice.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I've witnessed many trades in the NFL and have always been of the opinion the only way you can truly guage the results is after the players involved complete their tenure with their respective teams. While we all love Santana and appreciate the numbers he's brought this year, where the trade is concerned, next year could be completely opposite. But for this year the trade looks great for us, though only time will ultimately tell who got the best end of the trade.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Heck - I don't care how old Gary Clark might be, let's get him back in a Redskins uniform next year and let him play opposite of Santana Moss! I'd love to see a Clark type of play combining with Moss. Our offense would be scary!

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Coles: 57 catches, 612 yards, 10.7 avg, 2 TD.

Moss: 66 catches, 1111 yards, 16.8 avg, 6 TD.

Remind me again who get the better end of this deal!! ;)[/QUOTE]
i love how coles said his yards per catch last year (10.6) was way too low and he didn't like it. I guess all he wanted was .1 yards more per catch

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Wanted to bump this oldie. Can't say enough how much I love how Santana has quietly gone about his business this year.

And oh yeah, we damn sure got the better of this trade. Not even close.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

moss coles
678 receptions 674 receptions

9693 yards 8609 yards

64 touchdowns 49 touchdowns


Coles retired after the 2009 season

Moss is a true redskin and quietly has had a great career here. Always one of my favorite players.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Funny I was thinking about this the other day. Coles retired like 4 years ago right? Yeah I also think that pretty much sums up who got the better end of the deal.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

Next to the Monday Night Miracle, this is the play I remember him for. (Credit to youtube user "89 Santana Moss".)

[YT]YZ6i1-e87u8[/YT]

He really does so much for the team, without drama. Moss deserves more recognition.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

On the offensive side of the ball, Moss, Cooley and Portis kept us going through some pretty bad years...... Wish they were at their prime now, when we finally have the missing pieces of the puzzle in place. HTTR! WE WANT DALLAS!!!

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I'd really like to see Moss end on high note here. Both as a Redskins and at least a trip to the Super Bowl, if not a win.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

I think Moss has carved out a nice niche on this team as a guy who plays about 400 snaps a season and excels in a limited roll. We're paying him like a 1b type wideout, but in this role, I think he can play at this level for at least another year.

And I give Moss a ton of credit. Re-watching that clip from Sept. 2006 reminded me of a couple things: just how long he's been in decline, and just how hard he has had to work in order to remake himself as an NFL player. It's remarkable looking back on it how fast and explosive he used to be. The fact that he's still relevant in this league is a tribute to the work he's put into it.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[quote=GTripp0012;980915]I think Moss has carved out a nice niche on this team as a guy who plays about 400 snaps a season and excels in a limited roll. We're paying him like a 1b type wideout, but in this role, I think he can play at this level for at least another year.

And I give Moss a ton of credit. Re-watching that clip from Sept. 2006 reminded me of a couple things: just how long he's been in decline, and just how hard he has had to work in order to remake himself as an NFL player. It's remarkable looking back on it how fast and explosive he used to be. The fact that he's still relevant in this league is a tribute to the work he's put into it.[/quote]

well said.

Re: Coles vs. Moss update
 

[quote=GTripp0012;980915]I think Moss has carved out a nice niche on this team as a guy who plays about 400 snaps a season and excels in a limited roll. We're paying him like a 1b type wideout, but in this role, I think he can play at this level for at least another year.
.[/quote]

If he can remain injury free he can play for another 3 to 4 years at a semi-high level. He's another Henry Ellard, no matter how old he gets he still produces and makes big plays.