Manning's daddy to the rescue
 

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/news/story?id=1787271[/url]



what do u guys think about this? is it just me or is this pretty pathetic? i mean if you're coming out of college in the draft to play in the nfl and u r one of the more talented players in the league, u have to expect to be going to a team that more than likely isn't all that great which is why they get first dibs in the selection process. wouldn't this set a really bad precedent if the chargers bow down to the mannings' demands?

well they dont want another Ryan Leaf who didnt want to play football for them... This was also his dads opinion, and not his. It would set a bad precendent.

This just reeks of another Elway scenario! Guess the ol' man doesn't want his boy to get his lumps like he did by playing with a bad team.

San Diego or Coughlin bustin' your balls or the vampire of oakland/la/oakland/la/oakland biting your neck..... mmmm

As a football fan, I would like him to go to New York. I think he has the best shot to be a bigtime, star qb there. HOWEVER, as a logical Redskins fan, I pray to god thats the last place he goes.

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]As a football fan, I would like him to go to New York. I think he has the best shot to be a bigtime, star qb there. HOWEVER, as a logical Redskins fan, I pray to god thats the last place he goes.[/QUOTE]

I don't know, I might rather see him there than Gallery pushing us around for the next 12 years....

At least Manning has a SHOT to be a bust. Everyone, and there mother's, are making Gallery to be the 2nd coming of the Great Wall of China.

Thats true, but its alot easier to plan a game around a great tackle than a great QB, ya know?

I don't blame Papa Manning at all. He was drafted by the Aints, gave them the best years of his career, and was forced to finish that career with expansion teams like Houston and Atlanta. Peyton was drafted by the Colts, and there is doubt that they will ever be able to build a good team around him.
The Giants expect to go the playoffs every year. The pull of a Manning playing for a team with a tradition of winning must be irresitible to Archie.

Im surprised Eli hasnt said anything about it. He would be smart to make a comment about how he will go out and compete 100% for whomever he plays for.

[QUOTE=Carnage]I don't blame Papa Manning at all. He was drafted by the Aints, gave them the best years of his career, and was forced to finish that career with expansion teams like Houston and Atlanta. Peyton was drafted by the Colts, and there is doubt that they will ever be able to build a good team around him.
The Giants expect to go the playoffs every year. The pull of a Manning playing for a team with a tradition of winning must be irresitible to Archie.[/QUOTE]

the colts have turned out to be a pretty darn good team the past couple of years and peyton didn't have to sign a new long term contract to remain with them if he didn't think there was a future for the team. heck they'd have been in the superbowl last year if the new illegal contact ruling and closer watch on the pass interference had been in effect.

and it's not archie's career that he's trying to play though. i honestly think san diego has the chance to be a very solid team in a couple years especially with l. tomlinson (the best complete rb in the nfl today) being in the backfield. its a draft for a reason, bad teams need the best talent coming into the nfl. plus if he is having his daddy speaking for him, maybe it'd be kinda fun seeing his pansy self getting squashed twice a year in ny.

I guess I think it's Elway all over again and, quite frankly, I don't care. Each side has leverage and each side has risks to weigh.-

You don't want to play for us? Tough. If you want to play in this league you gotta follow the rules. One of those rules is, until your a UFA, you play for the team that drafts you. We will pay you millions of dollars to do so or, if you would rather, sit out the year and cost yourself millions.

You want to draft me? Fine, I ain't playing for you and I'll take my chances again next year even if it costs me a couple million in the short term. You will get NOTHING for THE most valuable spot in the draft. Work a trade or pass me by and get someone else, but, if you pick me, you get nothing.

Who has more to lose? Hard to say. There are short and long term considerations for both.

The Colts also would have been in the Super Bowl if they could stop the run OR get to the quarterback OR defend against the pass. Without manning, this is a pretty bad team.

[QUOTE=Carnage]The Colts also would have been in the Super Bowl if they could stop the run OR get to the quarterback OR defend against the pass. Without manning, this is a pretty bad team.[/QUOTE]

so u wouldn't want marvin harrison, edgerrin james, marcus pollard or dwight freeney?

This is horse crap. If I were San Diego and I really needed a QB I'd draft his ass. If they pick a QB other than Manning it sets a really bad precedence for future drafts. What happened to the old days of wanting to get drafted #1 overall?

Skinsfan, it would be stupid of me to say that the Colts did not have talent, which is why I did not say it. You bringing up Harrison and Freeney is not only unnecessary, (I had heard of them before) but besides the point. Are the Colts minus Manning a pretty darn good team?

I've never gotten why the media is so in love with the Manning family in the first place.. Archie was a decent QB on some really bad teams, Peyton is a great QB, but his personality sucks and this is a true bush league move by Archie/Eli.. Does Archie really think he's protecting Eli by doing this? He's putting a HUGE bullseye on him with the NY and the national media.. I don't watch much college football so I don't know Eli will do, but he doesn't strike me as in the same category as Elway who successfully overcame his draft day wrangling.. I hope Eli craps the bed in NYC, if they trade Hilliard as part of the deal they will have who, Toomer and Ron Dixon plus Shockey and Tiki 'FUMBLE' Barber? Not impressed..

I can't help but think if it was Winslow Sr & Jr pulling this the outcry would be worse (OH NO, THE RACE CARD!!!) :thumb:

Another factor in this is I think both Eli and Drew Brees has the same agent. The Chargers dont like this guy because, they feel they got "forced" into overpaying for Drew. Also its in Drew's best interest, (and therefore his agent's) for Eli to go somewhere else.

This may really confuse things for the Skins if they were for real about moving up to get Gallery. The Chargers now look like they are going to trade out of that pick and it may be to someone going for Gallery not Eli. It doesn't do the Skins much good to move up to the #2 if the guy we want is not there. However the Chargers' fans won't scream and yell if the Bolts don't take Eli. Everything I hear is that their front office wasn't that strong on him anyway, BUT may take Eli to keep their fans from hanging them. After some of their past draft mistakes they are a little gun shy.

Now they are a little more free to trade down and get Rivers, the guy they really wanted and some picks. From my understanding Archie nor anyone from their family said this to the press, untill after the story broke. It would not surprise me to find out that the Chargers front office leaked this to free their hands.

Mort is on ESPN News is saying that San Diego might take Manning anyways, and if it happens, he will hold out the entire year.

Jinx, I think you're right. Ironcially though, aside from representing Eli and Brees, Tom Condon also represents Schottenhiemer

The Chargers have to take him, especially after the Leaf disaster a few years ago. Tough sh!t if Eli or Archie don't want him going there. I'm kinda surprised at Archie, I thought he would have more respect for the game and for the league.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The Chargers have to take him, especially after the Leaf disaster a few years ago. Tough sh!t if Eli or Archie don't want him going there. I'm kinda surprised at Archie, I thought he would have more respect for the game and for the league.[/QUOTE]


I just don't really think they wanted him. Think about this if they got Eli do you think that will be the difference on their team? Are they going to the playoffs in the next 3 years? Heck no, the chargers have far too many problems and too many holes to fill not to trade down. IF I were them I would trade or double trade down to a good place to get Rivers and use the extra picks to fill some more holes.


One thing not many people here really addressed was weather Eli would or wouldn't be better off in another city(ie New York).

Personally I think San Deigo is a nicer city to live in and a lot less pressure than NY(their media is BRUTAL). However if you go by the past no QB does well in SD and worse no QB(including Joe Montana) ever had back to back good seasons under Marty. Marty ball could be a QB killer. I would want the trade if I were Eli.

If I heard right, Chris Mortensen was just saying on PTI that Eli might sit out the season if the Chargers pick him . He also said the Chargers might take Phillip Rivers number one

Matty,

I don't see this move as disrespectful of the game. Rather, Manning is just attempting to use what little economic leverage he has to achieve a desired economic result. It's how the free market works. To me, this is just business.

If Eli wants to sit out the season, fine. It's gonna cost him. If San Diego is unwilling to yield to his demands and exercises its rights under the CBA to choose him, fine and dandy - but there is nothing in the CBA which says Eli has to enter into a contract with the team that drafts him only that he can't contract with anyone else.

To me, its economics and contractual rights pure and simple. Both parties have economic interests to protect and each side has economic risks to take. I say Caveat Emptor to both.

Yup and he also said that it was A.J. Smith who let this into the media. The Chargers would NEVER draft a guy 1st without a contract before hand. If they couldn't sign him their fans would string them up. After their past drafts and then to waste a #1 pick, I wouldn't blame them. The reason the Chargers are SAYING they will draft Eli is to keep the price high. You dont sell a house or car by leting everyone know you need to get rid of this thing fast.

[QUOTE=Carnage]Skinsfan, it would be stupid of me to say that the Colts did not have talent, which is why I did not say it. You bringing up Harrison and Freeney is not only unnecessary, (I had heard of them before) but besides the point. Are the Colts minus Manning a pretty darn good team?[/QUOTE]

minus him, no i wouldn't say they they'd be a darn good team, but in my opinion it's not like they'd be terrible either. they have a good nucleus of young, talented players with a terrific coach.

[QUOTE=hi-jinx]Personally I think San Deigo is a nicer city to live in and a lot less pressure than NY(their media is BRUTAL). However if you go by the past no QB does well in SD and worse no QB(including Joe Montana) ever had back to back good seasons under Marty. Marty ball could be a QB killer. I would want the trade if I were Eli.[/QUOTE]


u r forgetting dan fouts a hall of famer and stan humphries who while with san diego, took them to the superbowl against the 49ers.

i think the gm for san diego let this out so san diego has a better excuse for their own fans rather than just trading down because of past draft problems. heck if we were like that we wouldn't have drafted arrington and samuels thanks to the shuler and howard screw ups. this makes it easier for the chargers to trade down, possibly twice, and still get the qb they really want in phillip rivers and use the draft picks and possible players aquired for trading down to fill the many holes that team has.

If Manning PUNKS OUT like Elway I will hate him forever like I do Elway.


Typical America Azzhole.... "I know there are rules for all people but they don't apply to me"

Someone please make this PUNK kid loss a whole year if he punks out.

I was really thinking about more recent years. As far as Howard and Shuler thats NO WHERE NEAR as bad as Leaf(the worst bust ever), Brees, and missing out on Vick. Those picks for the Skins are bad but these make the Bolts a laughing stock.

My main points on this whole thing are this:
1)Eli would be beter off somewhere else
2)The Manning camp wanted to keep this quiet
3)SD really thought Rivers was the QB they wanted
4) They could trade down to get him and get picks
5) they have more holes than QB
6)A good chunk of the fans wanted Eli no matter what
7)The Bolt's GM released this
8)Now no matter what the Bolt's front office does they look good
9)The Bolts saying that they are still going to draft Eli is crazy, They have dozens of reason to trade the pick and few to draft him.

Players CAN'T hyjack the draft.
The DRAFT is to help crappy teams and make the league better.


I say San Diego should take him and if he wants to sit out a year...MAKE HIM.
They'll still be crappy and he'll look like a spoiled punk cry baby kid.

I hate people that think they are better then other folks and they are more important then the WHOLE GAME OF FOOTBALL and all it's fans.

peace

I really have a problem with a player dictating where he goes in the draft. Now the Chargers don't have the trade leverage and they'll likely have to settle for less than they want to move out of the top spot. Like someone said earlier, this is a bush league move by the Manning family.

The Chargers could draft Gallery #1 and tell Eli, hey buddy you just lost out on some extra money.

I was in San Diego on the day they released Seau and Rodney Harrison. Many in the papers speculated that the Chargers were deliberatly trying to destroy goodwill with the city so they could move to LA.
Whether or not it is deliberate SD has now eliminated ever veteran I can think of from their roster, while at the same time, becoming a very unattractive team to free agents. This has traditionaly been a recipe for long-term failure.

Let's try to be anaylitical here and not emotional for a moment.

1. The Giants want to trade up with the Chargers - purportedly to get Eli Manning. SUPPOSE the Chargers want to put pressure on the Giants to sweeten the deal. If this story just happens to get out and just happens to "get legs", the Giants might have to worry that the Chargers would go and shop that pick elsewhere. If the chargers panic, they will have to get a good deal for that pick of their fans will go nuts. Hence the Giants might be motivated to toss in a "pot sweetner". The Giants initial offer - in Florida - was the #4 pick this year and next year's first round pick. (That was the rumor.) Today's paper says the offer is now the #4 pick this year and a first next year and either a second next year or Ike Hilliard.


2. When Peyton Manning was drafted #1 by the Colts and signed with the Colts they were a disaster as a team. They had gone 3-13 and just plain stunk. Archie didn't pitch a fit then...


3. John Elway used the threat of playing baseball as the lever to get the Colts to trade him. Eli Manning is not a baseball player.


4. The only two players I can think of who actually carried out a threat to sit out a year were Sean Gilbert (he said that he did it because God told him to do it) and John Riggins (when he was with the Jets). Without making any determination regarding the communication between Gilbert and God, I can only say that would be taking direction from the Highest Authority. Riggins was just a flake at that juncture of his life! Other players have sat out a year as a matter of league suspension; but if another player actually held out for an entire year when healthy and eligible to play, I can't remember it. So the odds that Eli Manning will actually do it are slim.


5. But the threat of a hold-out really gives him a hammer if the Chargers do take him. The price of poker just went up!


Remember folks, this time of year is best described as "lying time". That applies to owners, GMs, coaches, agents, players, players' parents, used car salesmen and guys trying to pick up women in bars...

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Remember folks, this time of year is best described as "lying time". That applies to owners, GMs, coaches, agents, players, players' parents, used car salesmen and guys trying to pick up women in bars...[/QUOTE]

lol.....

got to love that line

[QUOTE=Carnage]I was in San Diego on the day they released Seau and Rodney Harrison. Many in the papers speculated that the Chargers were deliberatly trying to destroy goodwill with the city so they could move to LA.
Whether or not it is deliberate SD has now eliminated ever veteran I can think of from their roster, while at the same time, becoming a very unattractive team to free agents. This has traditionaly been a recipe for long-term failure.[/QUOTE]

that does make a bit of sense unfortunately. last night i heard the statistics for the team as far as it's ability to win: 4 winning seasons since the new ownership took over 20 some years ago, 4 seasons with 10 or more losses, and they haven't reached the playoffs in 9 years. i enjoyed watching the chargers play while i was living in san diego and hope that this isn't true because LA has had 2 chances with a football team and both times it failed.