[30gut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well there wasn't much of a vetting process in my opinion. I think I told you guys in October/November 2013 that Jay was going to be the guy

Yeah, it appears there wasn't much of vetting process when you end up with a HC almost instantly at logger heads with the potential franchise QB. The HC's plan for developing Griffin should have been a critical part of the vetting process.

Now, that we have Jay we need to support him and imho supporting him doesn't consist of forcing a QB on him that he doesn't want. Which is why I'm surprised they didn't draft a developmental QB somewhere.

That said Jay was genuinely excited and prepared to work with RG3. And yeah maybe he panicked but RG3 was awful, just awful, in every way last summer.

Excited I can agree with prepared? We're not going to agree there. The results would indicate a lack of preparation. And when you begin without a QB coach, and try to groom a rookie OC, adopting an impetuous stance toward Griffin early in the 'development process' as opposed to patient stance all speak to lack of preparation in my mind.

Also, we certainly disagree about Griffin's level of play compared to the other QBs last summer.

Yes, it was Snyder's call. Fair to say you don't see reason to put any of the responsibility on Griffin?

Not fair at all because I've already stated that Griffin failures and struggles are facts. I am not disputing he struggled. I'm looking beyond that and trying to understand the 'why'.

Is it likewise fair to say you don't put any of the responsibility for the disparity between Griffin's performance in the Vikings game (on a short week, likely using a gameplan designed for McCoy) vs the Tampa game (coming after a bye week where the staff had ample time to develop a 'Griffin' gameplan) on the coaching staff?

Keim said this about last year? He and I were just talking about this the other day, not what I heard from him.

I posted the article I referred to, Keim also said the same in several espn980 radio spots and often meet with challenge and surprise especially from Sheehan.

What do you mean by the last line? edit:

Lol, I don't even know anymore. I was rambling so much. Give me a second to find it.

Oh, I meant that for Kirk and Colt to look better then Griffin means the offense isn't being catered towards Griffin and that in and of itself speaks to Jay's lack of belief. That indicates to me that Jay is putting his system over Griffin. The only way they look better then Kirk/Colt is in a straight drop back rhythm west coast offense. So running an offense that doesn't fit the player your ostensibly trying to develop would be a cause for concern for me. Thankfully it appears the offense is being tailored to fit Griffin more then before and not surprising the consequent is Griffin (thus far) has looked better then Kirk/Colt.

I'm not a Kirk fan. I've always said he's a Gus Frerotte type. Long career, spot starter

I actually have nothing against Kirk/Colt. They are system QBs and Jay is a system HC. I think Jay likewise had a quick trigger on Kirk. But then again even if he wanted its likely that the ownership wouldn't look fondly on re-inserting Kirk over Griffin after Kirk's struggles. But to be clear I think Kirk can put up good numbers in Jay's offense. Whether or not that leads to wins depends on Jay's improvement as HC/playcaller and Kirk's cutting down on turnovers.

I don't know what your point is here.

Gotta look at it again myself.
edit: Oh, my point was that Jay as the HC is accountable for the performance of the team, including the QBs. Jay being done with Griffin early in training camp Griffin or wanting to start Cousins isn't what a coach does...to me its the opposite of coaching. A HC doesn't get to stop doing his job of player development because they become frustrated.

I think Griffin is done here

I tend to agree. At the end of the season I was 100% certain it was over. I figure you either choose the HC or the QB. And it made sense to me to keep the HC, that is why I wanted them to trade Griffin for whatever they could get. For me I can't get passed the forced marriage between a HC and a QB he doesn't believe in. BUT IF the major offseason talking point/narrative is genuine and there actually has been a paradigm shift in sentiment and philosophy then Griffin has a chance. But, I'm not a crazy person either I recognize that its a big 'if' and the odds are long.