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Contains football related knowledge
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Second Star On The Right
Age: 63
Posts: 10,401
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Re: My Thoughts On The Glenn Beck Rally
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Originally Posted by Beemnseven
Then we have to contend with the issue of the Treaty of Tripoli, signed into law by President John Adams, (many of whom consider to be among the most Puritanical of the Founders) which says...
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Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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Seems pretty cut and dry to me ... much more, in fact, than the relatively vague "Creator" mention. |
The US wasn’t founded on "the Christian Religion". Rather it was founded on the freedom of religion. The founders were not atheists. They were, however, very concerned with any attempt by the State to coerce anyone into any religion by government action.
On one hand, Madison writes of religion in govt. as evil:
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What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.
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Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785 Quotes on Religion - James Madison
At the same time, Madison was a firm believer in Christianity and felt only by freedom of choice could both good government and religious pursuits.
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It is a pleasing and persuasive example of pious zeal, united with pure benevolence and of a cordial attachment to a particular creed, untinctured with sectarian illiberality. It illustrates the excellence of a system which, by a due distinction, to which the genius and courage of Luther led the way, between what is due to Caesar and what is due God, best promotes the discharge of both obligations. The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity.
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Letter from James Madison to F.L. Schaeffer
Despite the need for separation, Madison also felt that the principles of “Christian forbearance, love and charity” were necessary for civil society.
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Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offense against God, not against man: To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered.
Religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and, therefore, that all men should enjoy the fullest toleration in the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, unpunished and unrestrained by the magistrate, unless under color of religion any man disturb the peace, the happiness, or safety of society, and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love and charity toward each other.
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James Madison (My emphasis).
Again, to try and disassociate the Founders’ belief in God and their creation and adoption of the founding documents is simply wrong. It is also wrong, however, to assert that the Founders intended to found an evangelical (or, for that matter, any particular type of) “Christian Nation”. Rather, they intended to found a nation based on the liberties they saw encapsulated in “natural law” and, accordingly, believed that the “inalienable rights” they stated within the Declaration and the Constitution were rights granted man by a Divine Being. Given that they were granted divinely, there was no way these rights could be legitimately denied by other men. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Strap it up, hold onto the ball, and let’s go.
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