[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Probably not, but China doesn't have to go through India. And if whatever the circumstance was that China was rolling tanks into the Middle East to control the oil supplies I don't expect they would have too much concern about or resistance from India without our involvement.

any route China takes it's tanks to the Middle East, it's hitting resistance, Pakistan and India are both nuclear powers, Afghanistan, or the other northern "-stan" countries? Um if they get tank columns through there, well a 7-9 team will win it's division first! oh wait LOL

Given that we would be massively outnumbered in troops and tanks we would need all the air power we have.

I think Russia would be willing to lend some tanks and troops to the cause if China did. But seriously, is there any expectation of this scenario, I don't think so. The reason China has 8000 tanks is because it shares a border with Russia, and those two don't like each other.

Also, actual delivery of the F-35 isn't scheduled until 2016.

This reinforces my point that the F16 & F18s are very near the end of their life cycle and the F-35 production is needed for their replacement so we don't waste $$$ on a stop-gap measure.

and yet it also shows my point that we could extend their life 10 years, reduce the initial production run and still be technologically ahead.

You know me better than that. The automakers should've went into bankruptcy to shed the bad labor deals that were crushing them and restructure their debt. If a state wants to implement some sort of 0 unemployment policy...well we both know they won't be solvent very long and will be like CA & NY, shortly hitting Uncle Sam up for a bailout.

I know they were strawmen, and not very good ones either. Just making a point that maintaining jobs is not in and of itself a necessary government or DoD function.

Our defense is at stake.

ultimately we will just disagree on this. Without that crystal ball AW mentioned I can no more prove we will survive with a 3-4 year hiatus, then you can prove that a hiatus would be a precursor to the collapse of the US and life as we know it.

And by eliminating the F-35B (VTOL version, which I agree can be eliminated) there will be significant savings and rollouts to the AF & Navy will be faster.

Ending the B version would be a good start.

BTW, This is a multi-year program and Secretary Gates has already improved oversight and withheld performace $$$ from the contractors. Again, no problem with killing the USMC version, but delaying or killing the F-35 is the wrong move. Let's say the costs increase to $ 350B for the program, and the planes are delivered over 10 years, we're looking at about $ 35B / yr.

What are some other things the Fed spends over $ 35B / yr on?
- Interest on the debt in 2009 - $ 187B / yr. Anything tangible, nope.
- Medicare & Medicaid - $ 676B / yr., some estimates are 20% is fraud, let's be conservative and say 10% is fraud, that's $ 67B / yr. Anything tangible here, nope just "waisted" (per FD) Fed $$$.
- Social Security - $ 678B / yr., let's say fraud there is at 5%, another $ 34B, more wasted Fed $$$.


How about these duplicate programs (as of 2005, it's certainly worse now):

• 342 economic development programs;
  130 programs serving the disabled;
  130 programs serving at-risk youth;
  90 early childhood development programs;
  75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities;
  72 federal programs dedicated to assuring safe water;
  50 homeless assistance programs;
  45 federal agencies conducting federal criminal investigations;
  40 separate employment and training programs;
  28 rural development programs;
  27 teen pregnancy programs;
  26 small, extraneous K-12 school grant programs;
  23 agencies providing aid to the former Soviet republics;
  19 programs fighting substance abuse;
  17 rural water and waste-water programs in eight agencies;
  17 trade agencies monitoring 400 international trade agreements;
  12 food safety agencies;
  11 principal statistics agencies; and
• Four overlapping land management agencies.

ok, cut 'em all too, I am really an easy guy in this regard. I believe Govt has gotten way out of control, so much so that the politicians who think they know all the answers and end up simply spending more and more money.

Point of fact is if you are going to dent the massive govt bureacracy, you have to include the untouchables, Defense & social services