Best redskin trade

jasonskin · 05-15-2004, 01:17 PM

I was wondering what do you think was the best skins trade they have ever made.I all was liked the trade that got us Earnest Byner.I hope the Champ and Portis deal works out just as good or better

SmootSmack · 05-15-2004, 01:24 PM

Off the top of my head. Getting Jim Lachey for Jay Schroeder was a pretty good deal

offiss · 05-15-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Off the top of my head. Getting Jim Lachey for Jay Schroeder was a pretty good deal

That's my pick as well.

Hogskin · 05-15-2004, 02:47 PM

Yes, those were good trades. But hands down, the 2 best trades ever for the Redskins were:

1. Getting Sonny Jurgenson for Norman Snead - the absolute steal of the century.

2. Getting Bobby Mitchell for Ernie Davis. That trade was only great because of the horrible misfortune of Davis, who was diagnosed with leukemia and died before he ever got the opportunity to play in an NFL game. For that reason, it is tough to look at this as a great trade, but it turned out that way because of tragedy. Davis was a big bruiser who had broken Jim Brown's records at Syracuse, and the Browns were drooling at the thought of both of them in the same backfield. The story is, that the Redskins agreed to the trade, because Davis was slated to be the first black on the Redskins, and some thought he may have a tough time with the pressures that brought. Bobby Mitchell was ready and willling to go that route. The Skins converted Mitchell to flanker, where he provided us with many, many exciting moments.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

Daseal · 05-15-2004, 02:48 PM

Getting the Saints whole draft and next year's first!

SKINSnCANES · 05-15-2004, 05:56 PM

hell yea, getting rid of whatever that guys name was who didnt even play for us the year before in exchange for all the Saints pick, and essentially Champ, Lavar and Chris.

Hogskin · 05-15-2004, 06:54 PM

Actually, we didn't get all 3 of those guys for Ricky Williams. What we got for Ricky and a couple of our picks was LaVar, Champ, and several guys you never heard of again. I agree we came out ahead in the deal, but nothing overwhelming. We got Samuels in a deal where we gave up most of our draft picks that year to Chicago.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

Daseal · 05-15-2004, 11:29 PM

Champ and LaVar turned out to be in the top 5 of their position, whereas Ricky is teetering on the top 5 list. LT, McCallister, Portis, Green, Holmes, Lewis, Alexander, and Faulk all rank higher on my list. (This list is in no particular order)

Bergman14 · 05-16-2004, 12:37 AM

Not exactly a trade, but the best thing that ever happened to the Redskins was the Panthers taking DL Sean Gilbert, and we getting two first round picks for franchising him.

Hogskin · 05-16-2004, 01:32 AM

Daseal, first, if you look at the total stats for the past 3 years or past 5 years, putting every one of those guys ahead of Ricky is REAL tough to support. Another point to think about - No team in their right mind is going to trade the #5 NFL RB for the #5 LB straight up. Same for the #5 DB. Denver did close to that, BUT they got a top 2 DB, a round 2 pick for a top 5 RB, AND they are still going to look silly for doing it by the end of this season. Like I said, we got the advantage in that Ricky Williams trade, but not overwhelming. Certainly not even in the same league with a similar trade the cowboys pulled off for Herschel Walker. Of course they made MUCH better use of their middle round picks they got from the Vikings in that trade than we did with the Saints middle round picks. Go look at the list sometime. Can you say "Lloyd Harrison" or "Nate Stinson"? (Just a couple examples...)

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

Daseal · 05-16-2004, 11:05 AM

I feel all those backs are better because they do more with less carries. Ricky has more attempts than most every other back in the NFL which is why he get's his yards. Not trying to knock him, and we both agree it was a good deal for the skins. The only difference is I think it was quite a bit better.

Hogskin · 05-16-2004, 02:49 PM

Daseal, not to drag this out, but I think you may be missing a bit here in assessing the value of a back. Yes, most of those guys you listed have gained a fraction of 1 yard more per carry than Ricky Williams over the past 3 years. But Ricky HAS averaged 4.1 yards per carry over that time. He is not a "slasher" or breakaway back, he is a pounding, bruising back who gets better and better as the game goes on, and is extremely valuable to a team. You may be a little young to remember how much John Riggins meant to the Redskins, but he made it into the Hall of Fame with 3.7 yards per carry for his career, which is a little less than Ricky's lifetime average. Think about how much Stephen Davis meant to this team, especially in the 4th quarter. In 3 of his 4 years with the Redskins, he had less than 4.1 yards per carry. Ricky is the same TYPE of back as Riggins and Davis - he wears down a defense over the course of a game, making it more vulnerable in general, and can eat up valuable clock time when you have a 4th quarter lead. That is something that we lacked last year that cost more than one win. I am thrilled we got Portis, but would be just as happy to have gotten Ricky, or any of the guys you listed, except Faulk (seen his best days), Holmes (time for him to start dropping off), and Alexander (who I do not put in the same category as the rest - even though went to Alabama <Go Tide!!> LOL). Another plus for Ricky is that he is a "team" player, who will play through pain. A lot of guys today will not.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

P.S. I was just re-reading my post, and realized one more reason I may be so high on Ricky. I have been a Redskin fan since around 1950. My 3 favorite Redskins over all these years are Riggins, Jurgenson, and Taylor (probably in that order). I saw a LOT of plays the last few years where Williams was dragging would-be tacklers several yards farther down field. I guess his style just reminds me a lot of Riggins - dragging 1, 2, or 3 tacklers for another 2-3 yards.

mizzo skins man · 05-16-2004, 03:59 PM

Ricky fumbles a lot more that riggins did.

SittingBull · 05-16-2004, 04:39 PM

Also Ricky's team up until now had no other offensive threats other than himself enabling the defense to focus on the run yet he still has been able to be effective.

Hogskin · 05-16-2004, 09:45 PM

Very good point, Sitting Bull. And to take it a step further, Ricky has NEVER had as good a run-blocking line in front of him as Holmes, Faulk, Portis, or Green had in ther best seasons. In fact the only time he had a "pretty good" line was his first season or two under Ditka. And the funny thig was, that even though Ditka bet his career on Ricky, he did not know how to best utilize his talents.

Mizzo, I don't know where you get your stats, but you have this one upside down. Ricky has had 34 fumbles in 1818 touches (1 for every 53.5 touches). The Diesel had 58 in 2871 touches (1 for every 49.5 touches). Riggo fumbled a little more. Neither has been know for their great hands LOL.

With some of the statements here, it is really beginning to seem that their are just some folks on this site that have a mindset against any appreciation of Ricky Williams. That is fine - everyone has guys they like and guys they don't like. But I thought about this, and wonder if maybe when the trade was made, some folks were hoping he would fail, so the Redskins' trade would look even better than it was (and it WAS good!!) Maybe some fans have just carried a mindset aginst him. I have probably seen 40-50% of his plays since he has been in the NFL (I'm a REAL sick fan - nothing but Sunday Ticket on Sunday afternoons). He is very impressive, and is certainly among the elite backs currently in the league.

By the way, on the subject of great RB's, we just had our convention in Atlantic City. I made a bet with one of my customers who was dis'ing Portis. I bet this guy $100 that Denver's top RB this season will NOT get 20% more rushing yards than Portis. I would like to have had a lot more of that one. With their OL coach moving to Atlanta, look for Denver's RB factory to look a lot less formidable this year. I would have made the bet WITHOUT the 20% pad LOL!!!

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc
Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

05-15-2004, 01:17 PM	#1
jasonskin Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: washington dc Age: 42 Posts: 148	Best redskin trade I was wondering what do you think was the best skins trade they have ever made.I all was liked the trade that got us Earnest Byner.I hope the Champ and Portis deal works out just as good or better

05-15-2004, 01:24 PM	#2
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Off the top of my head. Getting Jim Lachey for Jay Schroeder was a pretty good deal __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

05-15-2004, 05:56 PM	#6
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	hell yea, getting rid of whatever that guys name was who didnt even play for us the year before in exchange for all the Saints pick, and essentially Champ, Lavar and Chris. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

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05-15-2004, 02:47 PM	#4
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	Yes, those were good trades. But hands down, the 2 best trades ever for the Redskins were: 1. Getting Sonny Jurgenson for Norman Snead - the absolute steal of the century. 2. Getting Bobby Mitchell for Ernie Davis. That trade was only great because of the horrible misfortune of Davis, who was diagnosed with leukemia and died before he ever got the opportunity to play in an NFL game. For that reason, it is tough to look at this as a great trade, but it turned out that way because of tragedy. Davis was a big bruiser who had broken Jim Brown's records at Syracuse, and the Browns were drooling at the thought of both of them in the same backfield. The story is, that the Redskins agreed to the trade, because Davis was slated to be the first black on the Redskins, and some thought he may have a tough time with the pressures that brought. Bobby Mitchell was ready and willling to go that route. The Skins converted Mitchell to flanker, where he provided us with many, many exciting moments. John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

05-15-2004, 02:48 PM	#5
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Getting the Saints whole draft and next year's first!

05-15-2004, 06:54 PM	#7
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	Actually, we didn't get all 3 of those guys for Ricky Williams. What we got for Ricky and a couple of our picks was LaVar, Champ, and several guys you never heard of again. I agree we came out ahead in the deal, but nothing overwhelming. We got Samuels in a deal where we gave up most of our draft picks that year to Chicago. John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

05-15-2004, 11:29 PM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Champ and LaVar turned out to be in the top 5 of their position, whereas Ricky is teetering on the top 5 list. LT, McCallister, Portis, Green, Holmes, Lewis, Alexander, and Faulk all rank higher on my list. (This list is in no particular order)

05-16-2004, 12:37 AM	#9
Bergman14 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Winston-Salem Age: 41 Posts: 138	Not exactly a trade, but the best thing that ever happened to the Redskins was the Panthers taking DL Sean Gilbert, and we getting two first round picks for franchising him.

05-16-2004, 01:32 AM	#10
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	Daseal, first, if you look at the total stats for the past 3 years or past 5 years, putting every one of those guys ahead of Ricky is REAL tough to support. Another point to think about - No team in their right mind is going to trade the #5 NFL RB for the #5 LB straight up. Same for the #5 DB. Denver did close to that, BUT they got a top 2 DB, a round 2 pick for a top 5 RB, AND they are still going to look silly for doing it by the end of this season. Like I said, we got the advantage in that Ricky Williams trade, but not overwhelming. Certainly not even in the same league with a similar trade the cowboys pulled off for Herschel Walker. Of course they made MUCH better use of their middle round picks they got from the Vikings in that trade than we did with the Saints middle round picks. Go look at the list sometime. Can you say "Lloyd Harrison" or "Nate Stinson"? (Just a couple examples...) John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

05-16-2004, 11:05 AM	#11
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I feel all those backs are better because they do more with less carries. Ricky has more attempts than most every other back in the NFL which is why he get's his yards. Not trying to knock him, and we both agree it was a good deal for the skins. The only difference is I think it was quite a bit better.

05-16-2004, 02:49 PM	#12
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	Daseal, not to drag this out, but I think you may be missing a bit here in assessing the value of a back. Yes, most of those guys you listed have gained a fraction of 1 yard more per carry than Ricky Williams over the past 3 years. But Ricky HAS averaged 4.1 yards per carry over that time. He is not a "slasher" or breakaway back, he is a pounding, bruising back who gets better and better as the game goes on, and is extremely valuable to a team. You may be a little young to remember how much John Riggins meant to the Redskins, but he made it into the Hall of Fame with 3.7 yards per carry for his career, which is a little less than Ricky's lifetime average. Think about how much Stephen Davis meant to this team, especially in the 4th quarter. In 3 of his 4 years with the Redskins, he had less than 4.1 yards per carry. Ricky is the same TYPE of back as Riggins and Davis - he wears down a defense over the course of a game, making it more vulnerable in general, and can eat up valuable clock time when you have a 4th quarter lead. That is something that we lacked last year that cost more than one win. I am thrilled we got Portis, but would be just as happy to have gotten Ricky, or any of the guys you listed, except Faulk (seen his best days), Holmes (time for him to start dropping off), and Alexander (who I do not put in the same category as the rest - even though went to Alabama <Go Tide!!> LOL). Another plus for Ricky is that he is a "team" player, who will play through pain. A lot of guys today will not. John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990 P.S. I was just re-reading my post, and realized one more reason I may be so high on Ricky. I have been a Redskin fan since around 1950. My 3 favorite Redskins over all these years are Riggins, Jurgenson, and Taylor (probably in that order). I saw a LOT of plays the last few years where Williams was dragging would-be tacklers several yards farther down field. I guess his style just reminds me a lot of Riggins - dragging 1, 2, or 3 tacklers for another 2-3 yards.

05-16-2004, 03:59 PM	#13
mizzo skins man Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St. Joseph Missouri Age: 48 Posts: 83	Ricky fumbles a lot more that riggins did.

05-16-2004, 04:39 PM	#14
SittingBull Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fairfax< VA Posts: 89	Also Ricky's team up until now had no other offensive threats other than himself enabling the defense to focus on the run yet he still has been able to be effective.

05-16-2004, 09:45 PM	#15
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	Very good point, Sitting Bull. And to take it a step further, Ricky has NEVER had as good a run-blocking line in front of him as Holmes, Faulk, Portis, or Green had in ther best seasons. In fact the only time he had a "pretty good" line was his first season or two under Ditka. And the funny thig was, that even though Ditka bet his career on Ricky, he did not know how to best utilize his talents. Mizzo, I don't know where you get your stats, but you have this one upside down. Ricky has had 34 fumbles in 1818 touches (1 for every 53.5 touches). The Diesel had 58 in 2871 touches (1 for every 49.5 touches). Riggo fumbled a little more. Neither has been know for their great hands LOL. With some of the statements here, it is really beginning to seem that their are just some folks on this site that have a mindset against any appreciation of Ricky Williams. That is fine - everyone has guys they like and guys they don't like. But I thought about this, and wonder if maybe when the trade was made, some folks were hoping he would fail, so the Redskins' trade would look even better than it was (and it WAS good!!) Maybe some fans have just carried a mindset aginst him. I have probably seen 40-50% of his plays since he has been in the NFL (I'm a REAL sick fan - nothing but Sunday Ticket on Sunday afternoons). He is very impressive, and is certainly among the elite backs currently in the league. By the way, on the subject of great RB's, we just had our convention in Atlantic City. I made a bet with one of my customers who was dis'ing Portis. I bet this guy $100 that Denver's top RB this season will NOT get 20% more rushing yards than Portis. I would like to have had a lot more of that one. With their OL coach moving to Atlanta, look for Denver's RB factory to look a lot less formidable this year. I would have made the bet WITHOUT the 20% pad LOL!!! John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

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