What could have been...

Paintrain · 10-30-2006, 08:51 AM

From the Hampton Roads article on the failings of the front office here's a snapshot of the players we COULD have had if we didn't trade all the picks recently, what do you think the differences in our team's fortune may have been?

From 2004: S Bob Sanders (second round to Colts); S Madieu Williams (second round to Bengals); tackle Max Starks (third round to Steelers); QB Matt Schaub (third round to Falcons); CBs Nathan Vasher and Jason David (fourth round to Bears and Colts); WR Jerricho Cotchery (fourth round to Jets);

From 2005: LB Lofa Tatupu (second round to Seahawks); CB Dominique Foxworth (third round to Denver); DE Chris Canty (third round to Cowboys)

From 2006: C Nick Mangold (first round to Jets); DT Barry Cofield (fourth round to Giants).

Daseal · 10-30-2006, 09:43 AM

Sometimes it's more about going to the right place and system rather than the team. Hindsight is 20/20.

GhettoDogAllStars · 10-30-2006, 10:00 AM

Yeah. We'd be stacked on D if we had Sanders, Vasher, and Tatupu to go along with Taylor, Marshall, and Griffin.

Oh well ... live and learn.

Monkeydad · 10-30-2006, 01:13 PM

I think it's kind of stupid to look at who WAS picked with our traded draft picks and assume we would've taken the same players.

Hey...we traded away that 2004 second-round pick to GET CLINTON PORTIS. Are you saying you'd rather have Champ Bailey (who didn't want to be a Redskin) and Tatum Bell (who is injury-prone, inconsistant and hasn't proven he can run in any system other than Denver's) over the face of our franchise?

Where's the Tatum Bell pick on that article you posted? Did they forget it?

Also, we got Sean Taylor in Round 1 and Cooley in the 3rd-round in 2004. It was a good draft for those picks alone! We didn't need the 2nd-round pick that helped us land Portis.

Don't forget we TRADED to get Jason Campbell (the 25th overall pick) on draft day from Denver...basically drafting him. We also took Carlos Rogers that draft, who can be a very good CB someday and we can see how much we miss his presence right now. We use the picks we keep very well.

This draft pick trading for us is nothing new...and has always had good results. The media loves to find reasons to criticize us and this is just another way to do it.
Flashback: Trades Shook Up 1971 Draft

jsarno · 10-31-2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Hey...we traded away that 2004 second-round pick to GET CLINTON PORTIS. Are you saying you'd rather have Champ Bailey (who didn't want to be a Redskin) and Tatum Bell (who is injury-prone, inconsistant and hasn't proven he can run in any system other than Denver's) over the face of our franchise?

How would he have proven he could run in any other system if all he has played in is the Denver system?
Also, you may not have realized, but Bell was #1 in rushing yards in the AFC before this week started, after this week, he's 3rd.

Champ just wanted consistancy in coaching staff (which we have), and too much money. Yes, I'd still like to have Champ around. We could use him right now...but for that money he's not worth it and Denver will figure it out.

That being said, I there needs to be caps on player salaries. Someone like Champ can't possibly stay with the team that drafted him. Salary cap implications keep that from occuring. Or maybe have a draft benefit to the cap. Like we could pay him 10 mil (for instance) and it only count 5 mil to to the cap as a salary cap benefit for drafting him.

Ps- I do like that Jones-Drew kid (jac) from UCLA. He kind of reminds me of Barry Sanders. When was he drafted?

GTripp0012 · 10-31-2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsarno

Ps- I do like that Jones-Drew kid (jac) from UCLA. He kind of reminds me of Barry Sanders. When was he drafted?

2nd round. 59th pick or something.

Beemnseven · 10-31-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

This draft pick trading for us is nothing new...and has always had good results. The media loves to find reasons to criticize us and this is just another way to do it.

Good results? When? You mean with Bobby Beathard calling the personnel shots? If that's the era you're talking about, OK, but I don't see how anyone can say the strategy we've seen under Snyder/Cerrato/Gibbs is working.

Just take a look at the team's record since Snyder owned the team. And don't count the '99 season, because that was Charley Casserly's roster.

Southpaw · 10-31-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Just take a look at the team's record since Snyder owned the team. And don't count the '99 season, because that was Charley Casserly's roster.

Hey! Football isn't judged on logic and numbers. Snyder is a great owner and does everything he can to help this team win. He wants to win soooo badly. And he's a genius because he brought back Coach Gibbs. It doesn't matter that Gibbs is 18-21 in two and a half seasons. SNydEr iz dA MaaaNNnn!!

The Zimmermans · 10-30-2006, 03:49 PM

the picks we make are usually pretty solid (besides Schuler), we just need to make more of them

hooskins · 10-30-2006, 05:13 PM

I feel your pain, I mean the same can be said about players that we have traded(esp about the players the Washington Wizards have traded in the past!!). But you can't look back to long. Learn from the mistakes and move on, kinda like a relationship....*runs and hides waiting to be shunned by warpath community*

Olin_Kreutz · 10-31-2006, 01:32 AM

Are these players the skins would have A) drafted and B) developed the players in the same way other systems have? I doubt it for most of these players. Also, whenever trading picks you are typically making a push for winning at the moment. Since that wasn't successful outside of 1 playoff win, I'd say you can pretty easily second guess any previous trading of draft picks, except that which included the acquisition of Portis which allowed for a franchise cornerstone.

Big C · 10-31-2006, 01:54 AM

i kinda think this topic is pointless, it could be argued that we could have had almost any player in the league, so whats the point? man if we had taken tom brady in the 6th round before the pats...just could be for almost any player in the league

GhettoDogAllStars · 10-31-2006, 02:31 PM

Yeah, this topic is KINDA pointless -- but not totally.

The reason I say that is because it helps to go back to look at your mistakes, and what led you to make them, and what you could have done differently to maximize the opportunity.

In the case of our recent aquisitions, I think the lesson to learn is that rookies are not useless -- even for winning NOW. We have traded away our picks for (somewhat) proven talent, and the reasoning is: we want to win NOW. That implies that we don't have much faith in winning NOW with draft picks, and that we have to get veteran players to win NOW. I believe that is the mistake we have made recently, and I hope we can learn to use draft picks AND win now AND in the future.

dmek25 · 10-31-2006, 04:36 PM

this is a ridiculous thread

SmootSmack · 10-31-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

this is a ridiculous thread

I agree. Oh how I want to hijack this...but I won't. Now we'll just have to wonder what could have been had I hijacked this

10-30-2006, 09:43 AM	#2
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Re: What could have been... Sometimes it's more about going to the right place and system rather than the team. Hindsight is 20/20. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

10-30-2006, 10:00 AM	#3
GhettoDogAllStars Playmaker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Age: 42 Posts: 2,762	Re: What could have been... Yeah. We'd be stacked on D if we had Sanders, Vasher, and Tatupu to go along with Taylor, Marshall, and Griffin. Oh well ... live and learn. __________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.

10-30-2006, 01:13 PM	#4
Monkeydad Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 45 Posts: 17,460	Re: What could have been... I think it's kind of stupid to look at who WAS picked with our traded draft picks and assume we would've taken the same players. Hey...we traded away that 2004 second-round pick to GET CLINTON PORTIS. Are you saying you'd rather have Champ Bailey (who didn't want to be a Redskin) and Tatum Bell (who is injury-prone, inconsistant and hasn't proven he can run in any system other than Denver's) over the face of our franchise? Where's the Tatum Bell pick on that article you posted? Did they forget it? Also, we got Sean Taylor in Round 1 and Cooley in the 3rd-round in 2004. It was a good draft for those picks alone! We didn't need the 2nd-round pick that helped us land Portis. Don't forget we TRADED to get Jason Campbell (the 25th overall pick) on draft day from Denver...basically drafting him. We also took Carlos Rogers that draft, who can be a very good CB someday and we can see how much we miss his presence right now. We use the picks we keep very well. This draft pick trading for us is nothing new...and has always had good results. The media loves to find reasons to criticize us and this is just another way to do it. Flashback: Trades Shook Up 1971 Draft

10-30-2006, 03:49 PM	#9
The Zimmermans Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Woodley Park, Washington DC Age: 40 Posts: 937	Re: What could have been... the picks we make are usually pretty solid (besides Schuler), we just need to make more of them __________________ Dan Snyder is a Cancer, Joe Gibbs is the Cure

10-30-2006, 05:13 PM	#10
hooskins Most Interesting Man in the World Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chantilly, VA Age: 37 Posts: 8,606	Re: What could have been... I feel your pain, I mean the same can be said about players that we have traded(esp about the players the Washington Wizards have traded in the past!!). But you can't look back to long. Learn from the mistakes and move on, kinda like a relationship....runs and hides waiting to be shunned by warpath community __________________ Vacancy

10-30-2006, 08:51 AM	#1
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	What could have been... From the Hampton Roads article on the failings of the front office here's a snapshot of the players we COULD have had if we didn't trade all the picks recently, what do you think the differences in our team's fortune may have been? From 2004: S Bob Sanders (second round to Colts); S Madieu Williams (second round to Bengals); tackle Max Starks (third round to Steelers); QB Matt Schaub (third round to Falcons); CBs Nathan Vasher and Jason David (fourth round to Bears and Colts); WR Jerricho Cotchery (fourth round to Jets); From 2005: LB Lofa Tatupu (second round to Seahawks); CB Dominique Foxworth (third round to Denver); DE Chris Canty (third round to Cowboys) From 2006: C Nick Mangold (first round to Jets); DT Barry Cofield (fourth round to Giants). __________________ Paintrain's Redskins Fandom 1981-2014 I'm not dead but this team is dead to me...but now that McCloughan is here they may have new life! Jay Gruden = Zorny McSpurrier Kirk Cousins = Next Grossman

10-31-2006, 01:32 AM	#11
Olin_Kreutz Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Age: 37 Posts: 5	Re: What could have been... Are these players the skins would have A) drafted and B) developed the players in the same way other systems have? I doubt it for most of these players. Also, whenever trading picks you are typically making a push for winning at the moment. Since that wasn't successful outside of 1 playoff win, I'd say you can pretty easily second guess any previous trading of draft picks, except that which included the acquisition of Portis which allowed for a franchise cornerstone. __________________ Go Bears

10-31-2006, 01:54 AM	#12
Big C Mr. Brightside Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 38 Posts: 4,453	Re: What could have been... i kinda think this topic is pointless, it could be argued that we could have had almost any player in the league, so whats the point? man if we had taken tom brady in the 6th round before the pats...just could be for almost any player in the league __________________ "I don't care what nobody say I'm a be me, stay hood stay real, cause I'm out here grindin'" -Joe Gibbs

10-31-2006, 02:31 PM	#13
GhettoDogAllStars Playmaker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Age: 42 Posts: 2,762	Re: What could have been... Yeah, this topic is KINDA pointless -- but not totally. The reason I say that is because it helps to go back to look at your mistakes, and what led you to make them, and what you could have done differently to maximize the opportunity. In the case of our recent aquisitions, I think the lesson to learn is that rookies are not useless -- even for winning NOW. We have traded away our picks for (somewhat) proven talent, and the reasoning is: we want to win NOW. That implies that we don't have much faith in winning NOW with draft picks, and that we have to get veteran players to win NOW. I believe that is the mistake we have made recently, and I hope we can learn to use draft picks AND win now AND in the future. __________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.

10-31-2006, 04:36 PM	#14
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: What could have been... this is a ridiculous thread __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

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What could have been...

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