Salary cap- After Coles release

Winskins · 03-06-2005, 01:03 PM

Alright, well looking at it with all the great reports Crazy Canuck set up, the post-release salary cap should look something like this

SUMMARY
2005 Cap Savings: $9054
Less 2005 Cap Spending: -$8647
New Cap Limit: $500K
Replaced players in top 51: $3569

TOTAL 2005 SAVINGS (SINCE 2/7): $4476

Cap Room (2/7): $3291

CURRENT CAP ROOM (3/3): $7767

NEW

Coles would be earnings: $3.357
Less: Release fee: $9.286
_____
NEW CAP ROOM $1.838 (million)

mooby · 03-06-2005, 01:09 PM

so we have 1.8 million in cap room left. is that enough to resign smoot?

hurrykaine · 03-06-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

so we have 1.8 million in cap room left. is that enough to resign smoot?

Not to mention the rookie pool? How do you sign a mike williams with that? What about MOss?

Winskins · 03-06-2005, 01:20 PM

Also, now that we are putting a real emphasis on the Rod Gardner trade, that should allow us a little more cap room .
(in millions)
$1.838
Add: Gardner's would be earnings: $2.107
Less: Gardner's release/trade fee $ .660
______
Cap AFTER Gardner's release/trade $3.285

I think the Skins are going to be desparate to push this deal through, since they now have to sign Santana Moss and try to sign Smoot.

BTW, in the Washington Times it said something about us possibly giving Santana Moss a big contract. If we do I have to admit that I will be kind of irked, because (1) that cap would be f***ed this year, and (2) we would be giving an outsider huge money to come in again w/o looking at our own "core group" of guys. Personally, anything better than the contract given to Patton would really piss me off!

Speaking of Patton!!!! His cap hit needs to be added to my figures!!!! Wish I knew how to calculate it: CANUCK, PLEASE HELP!!!

Gmanc711 · 03-06-2005, 02:16 PM

We got screwed on this trade. Plain and simple. The money we lose for to get a lesser player is unreal. I'm happy to have Moss, but not at this price. he isnt even worthy of a "Big Contract".

e16bball · 03-06-2005, 02:17 PM

Yeah if those figures are right we are f*cked. That Coles trade, it turns out, was possibly the dumbest move ever made. How is it possible that we made a move for a worse WR and it cost us $6M against the cap and cost us Smoot most likely. All this talk about preserving the core has been bullshit apparently, because we could have resigned Smoot and Pierce most likely had we not traded Coles away. Unbelievable. Only the Skins could make such a deal.

MTK · 03-06-2005, 02:29 PM

I found this on extremeskins, it's a nice analysis of Moss from a pretty knowledgeable and unbiased Jets fan, take a look:

Skins Fans:

Needless to say, as a Jets fan, I'm thrilled with the trade. The Skins seemingly made the best of a bad situation and cut their losses in the face of an unforeseen lose-lose situation. And the Jets were the beneficiary who were in the right place at the right time -- the guy with a bucket of overpriced umbrellas in Central Park when an unexpected T-storm pours down.

Am I a bit uneasy welcoming a malcontent with a bad toe? Absolutely. But obviously, you can't pass up the opportunity to swap a better WR locked up for 5 years (who also has chemisty with your QB), in exchange for a talented but more limited WR who the GM was prepared to let walk in 1 year.

But the purpose of this thread isn't to break down a trade which has already been analyzed ad nauseam. Instead, it's to provide you with a sliver of insight into your brand new WR. I previously posted some of these points below, but since it was buried in a thread on another topic, here it is again.

After watching every snap of Moss's career, the following is my best objective overview of Santana's game. All in all, I think Skins fans will be satisfied with Moss -- provided expectations are appropriately aligned. Hopefully, this will help you achieve that objective.

-- Moss endured the conservative Paul Hackett era, which did not completely leverage Moss's skills. As a result, if Gibbs takes a more aggressive approach to play-calling and truly makes it a focus to get the ball in Moss's hands, it's conceivable the Skins could find themselves with player who is more talented than he has previously shown.

-- Moss is a good character guy. He's relatively mellow and low key off the field, and he's a good teammate with a level-headed approach. He won't pout or say the wrong thing to the media, but don't expect a spirited leader either.

-- His hands are definitely solid, though he's not immune to a bad drop on occasion. His footwork around the sidelines is superb, and he can tip toe in bounds or drag the feet in impressive fashion.

-- Given his size, he's also a much better redzone threat than you might expect, mostly due to quickness and ability to separate on goal line routes. His 10 TDs in 2003 was a testament to his ability, and much red zone success came on slants and from the slot. Here, he'll be an immediate upgrade over Coles who historically struggled to score TDs.

-- I've never felt Moss's chemistry with Pennington was ever truly on point. Chad throws a soft ball, and on occassions when it floats, he's better served by a WR who squares up to the ball more aggressively and will snare it in traffic. This was a liability at times, as Moss is tentative in traffic and sometimes shows alligator arms or hear footsteps.

-- Moss is an adequate blocker downfield. His size/strength obviously prevent this from being a strength, though it never proved to be a liability either.

-- He had been an outstanding PR, but last season he tailed off significantly and was actually replaced by McCareins. He was reinserted during the playoffs and excelled. Can be a home run hitter if he finds a hole or crease. However, the reason he was yanked was that he often lacked aggressiveness, standing and waiting for coverage to reach him before trying to force a miss, which often resulted in little or no gain.

-- As Skins fans learned with Morton, his having Westhoff as a ST coach was a huge factor in his success that was tough to duplicate. It's not unreasonable to think that Moss could find it harder without Westfhoff as well - but I wouldn't subscribe to that theory. The reason is the gap in talent between Moss and Morton is substantial, and while Moss did benefit from great blocking too, unlike a KR behind a wall, he was also forced to create a great deal on his own.

-- While on PR duties, don't be alarmed the first couple of times Moss lets a ball take an awkward bounce and then dangerously plucks it from the air while running, rather than letting it settle and get downed. It's frightening to watch, but he did this frequently, and I'm sure I've never seen him fumble or lose the handle while doing so.

-- Tough, Moss is not. He drew the ire of many fans by routinely dancing out of bounds after catches, rather than fighting for extra yards. He once explained that he does this because he doesn't want to give opponents the opportunity to land cheap shot. This caused Moss to earn the unfortunate nickname, "Sideline Santana." It stuck.

-- He's got great speed as you'd expect, but more impressive is his incredible burst from a standing position and explosive acceleration (thus success on PRs and sometimes screens). It's jaw dropping at times and he can appear to be playing at another speed.

-- Health can be an issue with Moss. It's not so much that he doesn't hold up to the pounding or that he gets dinged with contact injuries -- he's actually more durable in that respect than I thought he'd be. Instead, he suffers minor tweaks (hammies, etc.) that can put him on the shelf here or there.

-- Moss's favorite move in the open field is the spin move - not just pivoting with a defender to his back, but a full 270 or 360. Due to his quickness, this works more often than you'd expect and he uses it quite a bit.

-- In contrast to his low key demeanor, Moss is quick to celebrate first downs or big catches - perhaps too quick (is it the U in him?). Celebration move is the same: spinning the ball on the ground with a flick of the wrist (works best on turf), and on TDs, he'll also quickly unbuckle the chin strap.

-- After watching much of Moss, it seems evident that he'll never be a true #1 WR. What he does have is the potential to be an exceptional #2 if paired with a solid possession WR. Maybe better than what Harper was to Irvin, but not quite what Clark was to Monk -- a Swann to Stallworth, if you will?

That's about it on the Moss tidbits. I'll miss him as a Jet and I'm curious as to what he would've done under Heimerdinger as the new OC. But it's time for Coles to come back to the team and QB that first put him on the map. Though I think the Jets made out well here, hopefully both teams will be better off than they would've been had they simply stayed put. I sense that will prove to be the case.

skinsguy · 03-06-2005, 03:00 PM

After reading that, overall, I am excited to watch Moss play. I don't mind a receiver being quick to get out of bounce so as long as he at least gets the first down; sometimes fighting for more yards can get ya in trouble!

As long as he stays relatively healthy, I personally think this is pretty good for us.

MTK · 03-06-2005, 03:10 PM

One of the smartest WR's in the league in my mind is Torry Holt. Just watch the way he plays, you rarely see him fighting for yards, in fact most of the time he ducks away from contact and goes down before he's hit.

Don't get me wrong I love a guy who will fight for yards, but fighting for yards can result in fumbles and injuries.

When you're the size of someone like Moss, avoiding contact is a smart thing to do.

AndySkinUK · 03-06-2005, 03:46 PM

All the Colts receivers do exactly the same thing, either get down or get out of bounds asap.

Make the catch, move the chains but don't take risks by struggling for 1 or 2 more yards and absorbing a hit that can result in a fumble.

Football smarts in my opinion.

CrazyCanuck · 03-06-2005, 03:54 PM

I figure we were $6.8M under the cap before the Coles trade. So now I'd say we're less than $1M under the cap

GoSkins! · 03-06-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

One of the smartest WR's in the league in my mind is Torry Holt. Just watch the way he plays, you rarely see him fighting for yards, in fact most of the time he ducks away from contact and goes down before he's hit.

Don't get me wrong I love a guy who will fight for yards, but fighting for yards can result in fumbles and injuries.

When you're the size of someone like Moss, avoiding contact is a smart thing to do.

Not to mention it pisses the defensive guys running after him off!

offiss · 03-06-2005, 05:59 PM

That was a fantastic scouting report on Moss kudos to the guy who wrote it, I loved Moss coming out of college and alway's had my feeling's that his talent's were being held back by the Jet's, he can be a fantastic reciever for us, but the big question is can, and will Gibb's be able to extract that talent out of him and utilize it to maximize his effectivness? Let's hope so!

As for the cap situation at this point I would think any contract's signed this season will be structured so that player get's the bulk of his signing bonus next season when we really drop down around $10mil from Cole's and Trotter, I have to assume that's the game plan, in so doing we will be able to offer Moss and Smoot a long term deal with a guarenteed 2nd year bonus and get our #1 draft pick signed, the rest will fall into place.

diehardskin2982 · 03-06-2005, 03:43 PM

know we need our big possession reciever

BigSKINBauer · 03-06-2005, 06:55 PM

can't the terms disclosed part of the deal mean that the jets will pay some of the cash or is it set that we will take the 9 million hit. i mean y would we do that it hurts us really really bad that is a couple great players. pierce smoot. and plexico geeeeez but hopefully we get some of that cash back through coles or the jets

i guess what i am asking are we DEFINATLY taking that 9 mill hit?

03-06-2005, 01:20 PM	#4
Winskins Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wheaton, MD Age: 40 Posts: 282	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release Also, now that we are putting a real emphasis on the Rod Gardner trade, that should allow us a little more cap room . (in millions) $1.838 Add: Gardner's would be earnings: $2.107 Less: Gardner's release/trade fee $ .660 ______ Cap AFTER Gardner's release/trade $3.285 I think the Skins are going to be desparate to push this deal through, since they now have to sign Santana Moss and try to sign Smoot. BTW, in the Washington Times it said something about us possibly giving Santana Moss a big contract. If we do I have to admit that I will be kind of irked, because (1) that cap would be f***ed this year, and (2) we would be giving an outsider huge money to come in again w/o looking at our own "core group" of guys. Personally, anything better than the contract given to Patton would really piss me off! Speaking of Patton!!!! His cap hit needs to be added to my figures!!!! Wish I knew how to calculate it: CANUCK, PLEASE HELP!!! __________________ The Skins will make the Cowboys their woman...and they're gonna enjoy it!

03-06-2005, 02:16 PM	#5
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release We got screwed on this trade. Plain and simple. The money we lose for to get a lesser player is unreal. I'm happy to have Moss, but not at this price. he isnt even worthy of a "Big Contract". __________________ #21

03-06-2005, 02:17 PM	#6
e16bball Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 163	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release Yeah if those figures are right we are f*cked. That Coles trade, it turns out, was possibly the dumbest move ever made. How is it possible that we made a move for a worse WR and it cost us $6M against the cap and cost us Smoot most likely. All this talk about preserving the core has been bullshit apparently, because we could have resigned Smoot and Pierce most likely had we not traded Coles away. Unbelievable. Only the Skins could make such a deal.

03-06-2005, 02:29 PM	#7
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release I found this on extremeskins, it's a nice analysis of Moss from a pretty knowledgeable and unbiased Jets fan, take a look: Skins Fans: Needless to say, as a Jets fan, I'm thrilled with the trade. The Skins seemingly made the best of a bad situation and cut their losses in the face of an unforeseen lose-lose situation. And the Jets were the beneficiary who were in the right place at the right time -- the guy with a bucket of overpriced umbrellas in Central Park when an unexpected T-storm pours down. Am I a bit uneasy welcoming a malcontent with a bad toe? Absolutely. But obviously, you can't pass up the opportunity to swap a better WR locked up for 5 years (who also has chemisty with your QB), in exchange for a talented but more limited WR who the GM was prepared to let walk in 1 year. But the purpose of this thread isn't to break down a trade which has already been analyzed ad nauseam. Instead, it's to provide you with a sliver of insight into your brand new WR. I previously posted some of these points below, but since it was buried in a thread on another topic, here it is again. After watching every snap of Moss's career, the following is my best objective overview of Santana's game. All in all, I think Skins fans will be satisfied with Moss -- provided expectations are appropriately aligned. Hopefully, this will help you achieve that objective. -- Moss endured the conservative Paul Hackett era, which did not completely leverage Moss's skills. As a result, if Gibbs takes a more aggressive approach to play-calling and truly makes it a focus to get the ball in Moss's hands, it's conceivable the Skins could find themselves with player who is more talented than he has previously shown. -- Moss is a good character guy. He's relatively mellow and low key off the field, and he's a good teammate with a level-headed approach. He won't pout or say the wrong thing to the media, but don't expect a spirited leader either. -- His hands are definitely solid, though he's not immune to a bad drop on occasion. His footwork around the sidelines is superb, and he can tip toe in bounds or drag the feet in impressive fashion. -- Given his size, he's also a much better redzone threat than you might expect, mostly due to quickness and ability to separate on goal line routes. His 10 TDs in 2003 was a testament to his ability, and much red zone success came on slants and from the slot. Here, he'll be an immediate upgrade over Coles who historically struggled to score TDs. -- I've never felt Moss's chemistry with Pennington was ever truly on point. Chad throws a soft ball, and on occassions when it floats, he's better served by a WR who squares up to the ball more aggressively and will snare it in traffic. This was a liability at times, as Moss is tentative in traffic and sometimes shows alligator arms or hear footsteps. -- Moss is an adequate blocker downfield. His size/strength obviously prevent this from being a strength, though it never proved to be a liability either. -- He had been an outstanding PR, but last season he tailed off significantly and was actually replaced by McCareins. He was reinserted during the playoffs and excelled. Can be a home run hitter if he finds a hole or crease. However, the reason he was yanked was that he often lacked aggressiveness, standing and waiting for coverage to reach him before trying to force a miss, which often resulted in little or no gain. -- As Skins fans learned with Morton, his having Westhoff as a ST coach was a huge factor in his success that was tough to duplicate. It's not unreasonable to think that Moss could find it harder without Westfhoff as well - but I wouldn't subscribe to that theory. The reason is the gap in talent between Moss and Morton is substantial, and while Moss did benefit from great blocking too, unlike a KR behind a wall, he was also forced to create a great deal on his own. -- While on PR duties, don't be alarmed the first couple of times Moss lets a ball take an awkward bounce and then dangerously plucks it from the air while running, rather than letting it settle and get downed. It's frightening to watch, but he did this frequently, and I'm sure I've never seen him fumble or lose the handle while doing so. -- Tough, Moss is not. He drew the ire of many fans by routinely dancing out of bounds after catches, rather than fighting for extra yards. He once explained that he does this because he doesn't want to give opponents the opportunity to land cheap shot. This caused Moss to earn the unfortunate nickname, "Sideline Santana." It stuck. -- He's got great speed as you'd expect, but more impressive is his incredible burst from a standing position and explosive acceleration (thus success on PRs and sometimes screens). It's jaw dropping at times and he can appear to be playing at another speed. -- Health can be an issue with Moss. It's not so much that he doesn't hold up to the pounding or that he gets dinged with contact injuries -- he's actually more durable in that respect than I thought he'd be. Instead, he suffers minor tweaks (hammies, etc.) that can put him on the shelf here or there. -- Moss's favorite move in the open field is the spin move - not just pivoting with a defender to his back, but a full 270 or 360. Due to his quickness, this works more often than you'd expect and he uses it quite a bit. -- In contrast to his low key demeanor, Moss is quick to celebrate first downs or big catches - perhaps too quick (is it the U in him?). Celebration move is the same: spinning the ball on the ground with a flick of the wrist (works best on turf), and on TDs, he'll also quickly unbuckle the chin strap. -- After watching much of Moss, it seems evident that he'll never be a true #1 WR. What he does have is the potential to be an exceptional #2 if paired with a solid possession WR. Maybe better than what Harper was to Irvin, but not quite what Clark was to Monk -- a Swann to Stallworth, if you will? That's about it on the Moss tidbits. I'll miss him as a Jet and I'm curious as to what he would've done under Heimerdinger as the new OC. But it's time for Coles to come back to the team and QB that first put him on the map. Though I think the Jets made out well here, hopefully both teams will be better off than they would've been had they simply stayed put. I sense that will prove to be the case. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-06-2005, 03:00 PM	#8
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release After reading that, overall, I am excited to watch Moss play. I don't mind a receiver being quick to get out of bounce so as long as he at least gets the first down; sometimes fighting for more yards can get ya in trouble! As long as he stays relatively healthy, I personally think this is pretty good for us. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

03-06-2005, 01:03 PM	#1
Winskins Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wheaton, MD Age: 40 Posts: 282	Salary cap- After Coles release Alright, well looking at it with all the great reports Crazy Canuck set up, the post-release salary cap should look something like this SUMMARY 2005 Cap Savings: $9054 Less 2005 Cap Spending: -$8647 New Cap Limit: $500K Replaced players in top 51: $3569 TOTAL 2005 SAVINGS (SINCE 2/7): $4476 Cap Room (2/7): $3291 CURRENT CAP ROOM (3/3): $7767 NEW Coles would be earnings: $3.357 Less: Release fee: $9.286 _____ NEW CAP ROOM $1.838 (million) __________________ The Skins will make the Cowboys their woman...and they're gonna enjoy it!

03-06-2005, 01:09 PM	#2
mooby Hug Anne Spyder Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 20,468	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release so we have 1.8 million in cap room left. is that enough to resign smoot? __________________ Hail to the Football Team

03-06-2005, 03:10 PM	#9
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release One of the smartest WR's in the league in my mind is Torry Holt. Just watch the way he plays, you rarely see him fighting for yards, in fact most of the time he ducks away from contact and goes down before he's hit. Don't get me wrong I love a guy who will fight for yards, but fighting for yards can result in fumbles and injuries. When you're the size of someone like Moss, avoiding contact is a smart thing to do. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-06-2005, 03:46 PM	#10
AndySkinUK Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Age: 51 Posts: 44	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release All the Colts receivers do exactly the same thing, either get down or get out of bounds asap. Make the catch, move the chains but don't take risks by struggling for 1 or 2 more yards and absorbing a hit that can result in a fumble. Football smarts in my opinion. __________________ Don't Panic

03-06-2005, 03:54 PM	#11
CrazyCanuck Serenity Now Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,008	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release I figure we were $6.8M under the cap before the Coles trade. So now I'd say we're less than $1M under the cap

03-06-2005, 05:59 PM	#13
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release That was a fantastic scouting report on Moss kudos to the guy who wrote it, I loved Moss coming out of college and alway's had my feeling's that his talent's were being held back by the Jet's, he can be a fantastic reciever for us, but the big question is can, and will Gibb's be able to extract that talent out of him and utilize it to maximize his effectivness? Let's hope so! As for the cap situation at this point I would think any contract's signed this season will be structured so that player get's the bulk of his signing bonus next season when we really drop down around $10mil from Cole's and Trotter, I have to assume that's the game plan, in so doing we will be able to offer Moss and Smoot a long term deal with a guarenteed 2nd year bonus and get our #1 draft pick signed, the rest will fall into place.

03-06-2005, 03:43 PM	#14
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release know we need our big possession reciever __________________ That got ugly fast

03-06-2005, 06:55 PM	#15
BigSKINBauer Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Age: 36 Posts: 5,688	Re: Salary cap- After Coles release can't the terms disclosed part of the deal mean that the jets will pay some of the cash or is it set that we will take the 9 million hit. i mean y would we do that it hurts us really really bad that is a couple great players. pierce smoot. and plexico geeeeez but hopefully we get some of that cash back through coles or the jets i guess what i am asking are we DEFINATLY taking that 9 mill hit?

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Salary cap- After Coles release

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