Is it Portis or the Offensive line?

[Beemnseven]

Many of you know I've been critical of Clinton Portis. But for a moment, let's put that aside and discuss another issue. Read this excerpt from the WP:

"Portis was an integral part of the Redskins' running game last Sunday against San Diego's top-rated rush defense, with Coach Joe Gibbs calling 13 running plays in the final quarter with his team leading by 10 points. But Portis gained only 36 yards on those carries and was held to a yard or less on five carries, getting stopped for no gain on his final two rushes.

The problem was worse on third down. Portis's seven fourth-quarter carries on second or third down picked up a total of 13 yards (1.8 per carry), with Washington unable to capitalize on first-down gains. Portis is averaging just 3.7 yards per carry in the fourth quarter overall this season -- the NFL average is 4.1 -- and over the last three games he has gained only 57 yards on 18 carries in the fourth quarter (3.2 per carry), and has just 10 carries for 27 yards on third downs this season, well off his 2005 average of 4.2 per carry."

***

OK, if Portis isn't the problem as many have argued, then what is the problem? Is it the offensive line? If so, who's the weak link? We've always said it's Derrick Dockery, but this is a pattern that's starting to point at more than just one player. Rabach's holding penalties certainly don't help. But why is it that an offensive line made up of names like Samuels, Jansen and Thomas isn't consistently paving the way when the team needs it most? Could a mammoth run blocking tight end like Ron Middleton make a difference?

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Many of you know I've been critical of Clinton Portis. But for a moment, let's put that aside and discuss another issue. Read this excerpt from the WP:

"Portis was an integral part of the Redskins' running game last Sunday against San Diego's top-rated rush defense, with Coach Joe Gibbs calling 13 running plays in the final quarter with his team leading by 10 points. But Portis gained only 36 yards on those carries and was held to a yard or less on five carries, getting stopped for no gain on his final two rushes.

The problem was worse on third down. Portis's seven fourth-quarter carries on second or third down picked up a total of 13 yards (1.8 per carry), with Washington unable to capitalize on first-down gains. Portis is averaging just 3.7 yards per carry in the fourth quarter overall this season -- the NFL average is 4.1 -- and over the last three games he has gained only 57 yards on 18 carries in the fourth quarter (3.2 per carry), and has just 10 carries for 27 yards on third downs this season, well off his 2005 average of 4.2 per carry."

***

OK, if Portis isn't the problem as many have argued, then what is the problem? Is it the offensive line? If so, who's the weak link? We've always said it's Derrick Dockery, but this is a pattern that's starting to point at more than just one player. Rabach's holding penalties certainly don't help. But why is it that an offensive line made up of names like Samuels, Jansen and Thomas isn't consistently paving the way when the team needs it most? Could a mammoth run blocking tight end like Ron Middleton make a difference?

The problem is they can afford to stack the line and move the safteys up..we wont throw the ball downfield...and we are lucky to even throw it short in the 4th qtr..the o-line is fine ..no deep passes is what has been the running games problem all season.. until we make them respect and protect the long pass teams will stack the line

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

The problem is they can afford to stack the line and move the safteys up..we wont throw the ball downfield...and we are lucky to even throw it short in the 4th qtr..the o-line is fine ..no deep passes is what has been the running games problem all season.. until we make them respect and protect the long pass teams will stack the line

But were they stacking the line on each play in the 4th quarter when trying to run it? I don't have a tape of the game, so I can't go back and look. But even it that were true, isn't there an audible system in Gibbs' offense for Brunell to exploit 8 in the box?

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

The problem is they can afford to stack the line and move the safteys up..we wont throw the ball downfield...and we are lucky to even throw it short in the 4th qtr..the o-line is fine ..no deep passes is what has been the running games problem all season.. until we make them respect and protect the long pass teams will stack the line

Not to but I have ben saying that we need a 2nd WR threat. With 11 guys on D you can put 2 on Moss, 1 on whoever is opposite of Moss, and 8 in the box. Yeah, you do have to worry about Cooley, but he is an intermediate threat, not a downfield threat.

Also, about the audiables(SP) in Gibbs system, I really dont think that there is any or Gibbs gets pretty PO'd if one is called.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Also, about the audiables(SP) in Gibbs system, I really dont think that there is any or Gibbs gets pretty PO'd if one is called.

thats why i say its a 1979 offense and not 2005

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

thats why i say its a 1979 offense and not 2005

Gibbs wasn't around Washington in 1979.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

The problem is they can afford to stack the line and move the safteys up..we wont throw the ball downfield...and we are lucky to even throw it short in the 4th qtr..the o-line is fine ..no deep passes is what has been the running games problem all season.. until we make them respect and protect the long pass teams will stack the line

I agree Rail, but it doesn't end there I watch Portis mis the holes to much for my liking, not all the time, but I see him running into the backs of our linemen when theres a hole right there and by the time he restarts and hits it the defense has closed in on him, I also think he has to drop his weight back down, he's better suited for speed, and quickness, not power as I believe he's trying to become.

[Big C]

portis doesnt really get a lot of space to run in, so he cannot do his moves and cut backs

[BigSKINBauer]

they know we will run it and that is why a couple weeks ago we had a discussion that if gibbs should have passed the ball in a critical 3rd down, i said gibbs should have.

As far as the line goes i think janson and samuels surprisingly have been the two weakest only after Rabach. The line's players in my mind rank as follows

Thomas- Deserving of a pro bowl
Doc- Much better than we all thought, remember throwing people down in the preseason
Samuels- he hasn't been blantly bad but hasn't been good either
Janson- Maybe we overhyped the loss of him last year because when he came back he was suppossed to be our savior and he can't live up to those standards-two broken thumbs don't help much
Rabach- Still a huge improvement over raymer

[Big C]

Originally Posted by BigSKINBauer

Janson- Maybe we overhyped the loss of him last year because when he came back he was suppossed to be our savior and he can't live up to those standards-two broken thumbs don't help much

we didnt overhype jansen. the broken thumbs are the reason he isnt performing to the level that he can. definitely going to make you less effective if you cant hold or grab or anything with your hands

[Duffman003]

Portis isn't meant to run while there is 8 men in the box ( maybe if it was a toss or something) but i have never seen that one play work... i can't remember the name but it's the play we run all the time and used to run it back in the 80s where the guard and tackle pull because it's not his style

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Duffman003

Portis isn't meant to run while there is 8 men in the box ( maybe if it was a toss or something) but i have never seen that one play work... i can't remember the name but it's the play we run all the time and used to run it back in the 80s where the guard and tackle pull because it's not his style

counter- tre

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

counter- tre

Actually, it's counter-trey. Or counter-gap. And Gibbs calls many of those plays. I do think there's something to the playcalling. Since this team hasn't established itself as one that can run the ball down everyone's throat when the opposing team knows we're going to run it, the playcallers -- whoever they are -- need to throw defenses off balance by short or intermediate range passing unexpectedly. So far, they haven't been able to do it.

[Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor]

just the playcalling. that is what is killing our running game. knowing when to run and when ti pass. we need to develop audibles, like someone mention earlier, at the lin e of scrimmage to keep the defenses honest like the colts do and that is why edge always have those hundred yard gain he does not run when the box is stacked like portis does.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor

just the playcalling. that is what is killing our running game. knowing when to run and when ti pass. we need to develop audibles, like someone mention earlier, at the lin e of scrimmage to keep the defenses honest like the colts do and that is why edge always have those hundred yard gain he does not run when the box is stacked like portis does.

I agree, our playcalling is just too predicatable down the stretch. No team is going to be so dominante in todays NFL that they can just do it anyways.