Patrick Ramsey Vs Philip Rivers

[Dana87]

On my way home from work last night I heard an NFL scout talking about the teams that need a QB and their choice of using a top 10 pick on a rookie QB or possibly trading for Philip Rivers. His reasoning was that Rivers is farther along in his NFL development than a rookie would be. While I agree with philosophy, I don't understand while when these discussions come up Rivers seems to be worth a 1st rnd pick and we would be lucky to get a 3rd. I believe that Patrick Ramsy is a better prospect and is farther along in his development than Rivers. If you look at the each of their production you will see that Ramsey has far better numbers. In 2005 Rivers had a QB Rating of 50.4, Ramsey's was 95.3. In his career Rivers Rating is 67.1, Ramsey's Rating is 75.0. If you look at the numbers it's pretty easy to see that Patrick Ramsey is far more ready to come in and lead an NFL franchise than Philip Rivers is. And if he is worthy of a 1st rnd pick then why is Ramsey?

[12thMan]

Comparing Rivers and Ramsey in terms of trade value is really two different stories.

First of all, with Drew Brees facing off-season recovery from a shoulder injury, I don't think the Chargers are looking forward to letting Rivers go.

Secondly, Rivers really hasn't played much whereas Ramsey has had much, much more time on the field. So when you compare them statistacally, Ramsey has had more opportunities. But Ramsey could be perceived by some as having the edge to come right in and make an impact.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Dana87

On my way home from work last night I heard an NFL scout talking about the teams that need a QB and their choice of using a top 10 pick on a rookie QB or possibly trading for Philip Rivers. His reasoning was that Rivers is farther along in his NFL development than a rookie would be. While I agree with philosophy, I don't understand while when these discussions come up Rivers seems to be worth a 1st rnd pick and we would be lucky to get a 3rd. I believe that Patrick Ramsy is a better prospect and is farther along in his development than Rivers. If you look at the each of their production you will see that Ramsey has far better numbers. In 2005 Rivers had a QB Rating of 50.4, Ramsey's was 95.3. In his career Rivers Rating is 67.1, Ramsey's Rating is 75.0. If you look at the numbers it's pretty easy to see that Patrick Ramsey is far more ready to come in and lead an NFL franchise than Philip Rivers is. And if he is worthy of a 1st rnd pick then why is Ramsey?

Are you seriously comparing Ramsey's 2005 season to Rivers'? That's absurd, Ramsey didn't even see 60 minutes of game action, same with Rivers.

Now as for the opinion on Phillip Rivers, I think he's overrated. I don't think Rivers is worth a first rounder. I also don't think Ramsey is worth a first rounder.

Ramsey is a turnover machine. He gets sacked way too often and throws far too many interceptions. He's never going to be anything more than a spot-starter in this league.

I do agree with you that Ramsey and Rivers should be valued similarly. But they both shouldn't be valued at 1st rounders, they should both be valued around the 3rd round.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Ramsey is a turnover machine. He gets sacked way too often and throws far too many interceptions. He's never going to be anything more than a spot-starter in this league.

Ramsey has a better TD/INT ratio than about 1/3 of the quarterbacks that saw game time this season(Jake Plummer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, etc.), and he fumbles far less than Daunte Culpepper, Kurt Warner, and Drew Bledsoe. I think calling him a "turnover machine" is a bit of an overstatement.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Ramsey has a better TD/INT ratio than about 1/3 of the quarterbacks that saw game time this season(Jake Plummer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning, etc.), and he fumbles far less than Daunte Culpepper, Kurt Warner, and Drew Bledsoe. I think calling him a "turnover machine" is a bit of an overstatement.

OK fine, but saying he's better at taking care of the ball than Plummer, Carr, Harrington, and youngsters Grossman and Manning isn't saying much; and it certainly doesn't make a strong case for why Ramsey should be considered worthy of anything higher than a 3rd round pick, which was my main point.

[celts32]

Rivers is still pretty much an unknown so his value is close to where it started which is 1st round. Ramsey has played a good amount and has been mistake proned which has raised concerns as to whether he can be a starting QB. His value started as a late #1 and has fallen to a mid round pick at best.

Ramsey may be better than Rivers, but the difference is that Ramsey has shown his hand and Rivers has not.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by celts32

Rivers is still pretty much an unknown so his value is close to where it started which is 1st round. Ramsey has played a good amount and has been mistake proned which has raised concerns as to whether he can be a starting QB. His value started as a late #1 and has fallen to a mid round pick at best.

Ramsey may be better than Rivers, but the difference is that Ramsey has shown his hand and Rivers has not.

Well put.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by celts32

Rivers is still pretty much an unknown so his value is close to where it started which is 1st round. Ramsey has played a good amount and has been mistake proned which has raised concerns as to whether he can be a starting QB. His value started as a late #1 and has fallen to a mid round pick at best.

Ramsey may be better than Rivers, but the difference is that Ramsey has shown his hand and Rivers has not.

I think we have a winner.

Just to add my own hot air to the discussion...Ramsey has already shown what he can and can't do, Rivers is still relatively unknown.

Plus Rivers was more highly regarded coming out of school.

[Monksdown]

Im going to expand a touch on what you said Matty. We know essentially what Patrick can't do. And that's put up solid numbers consistently.

I don't think Philip is in the mix for us. But I will say that I would rather have a wild card, then a 3 of clubs.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Im going to expand a touch on what you said Matty. We know essentially what Patrick can't do. And that's put up solid numbers consistently.

I don't think Philip is in the mix for us. But I will say that I would rather have a wild card, then a 3 of clubs.

Monksdown, some would argue while Patrick hasn't put up consistent numbers he did so while playing under Spurrier's collegiate style offense. And since JG has arrived, Patrick hasn't had much of chance to prove himself otherwise.

[BigSKINBauer]

What would we get for cambell if we would want to trade him? Obviously i am not saying that we should by any means but i think that cambell would yield more in trade value than patrick.

[JoeRedskin]

At this point, I doubt it. We drafted Campbell higher than he was rated and, even at the time we drafted him, he was viewed as a project.

Rivers was/is viewed as someone who can compete for a starting job right now with the expectation that he should be able to win the competition.

In evaluating trade value, Ramsey is more similar to Rivers than Campbell but with the caveat that Ramsey has already demonstrated some significant faults that call into question his ability to be THE quarterback whereas Rivers' faults, if any, are still very much an unknown.

IF Campbell were on the block, I am betting he would be worth a solid 3, MAYBE a 2.

[skindogger47]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

At this point, I doubt it. We drafted Campbell higher than he was rated and, even at the time we drafted him, he was viewed as a project.

I'd have to say that Rivers, just like any QB drafted in the first round, was a project himself. He didn't go 13-0 in the SEC either. I don't care about his ACC passing yards. But he is better than Ramsey. Where you come from makes you who you are. SEC> ACC> Conference USA. Big Ben is the exception. And Florida Gators.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by skindogger47

I'd have to say that Rivers, just like any QB drafted in the first round, was a project himself. He didn't go 13-0 in the SEC either. I don't care about his ACC passing yards. But he is better than Ramsey. Where you come from makes you who you are. SEC> ACC> Conference USA. Big Ben is the exception. And Florida Gators.

I don't think we can say difinitavely(sp) that Rivers is better than Ramsey.

What have we seen of Rivers to come to that conclusion?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't think we can say difinitavely(sp) that Rivers is better than Ramsey.

What have we seen of Rivers to come to that conclusion?

And of course that's the crux of the issue. Teams looking to trade a draft choice for a QB as opposed to trying to sign an UFA are confronted with a lot of options this offseason. As homers, we are probably (and not necessarily intentionally) over-valuing the trade value of QB's in hopes of getting more for Ramsey than his actual market value to other teams. Probably the same for Rivers. Drafting is such a crapshoot and otherwise logical rules seem to go by the wayside in valuing draft picks against current players.

Think about it. If you are New Orleans or Tennesse, do you trade your pick for Rivers instead of taking Young or Linehart? No one seems to even be discussing that possibility. Yet, if Rivers were coming out of school NOW, with the same stats and rep as when he did 2 years ago, he would probably be included in the "which QB goes first?" speculation.

Somehow, even though Rivers has been in the league two years and done nothing to demostrate his inability to live up to his original potential (except fail to beat out a pro-bowl, playoff (last year) QB), he is of lesser value than two college QB's each with acknowledged and serious question marks.

At QB, it's all about that shiny new "potential". First round QB's are kinda like new cars - as soon as you drive them off the lot they lose value.