The Right Players For The Offense

[Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor]

I just believe we just don't have the right players for this offense to work. CP is my favorite player on the team but he is just not as patient as he needs to be in order to make those running plays work. He just too fast for the blockers we have. I also believe that our o-line is not as good as Kansas City's. I have been watching the chiefs games all season long and other than the pittsburg game they have been moving the ball down the field with ease. I mean on paper we should be a lot better than them with the players we have and the offensiv coordinator. I think everything starts with the o-line. Of course I main problem is the qb play. I mean the chiefs have Damon Huard looking better then trent green this year. We just need a qb who can withstand the pass rush and complete the pass instead of throwing it away or taking a sack. If jason campbell is not the answer than maybe draft one in this year's draft or pick up green for a couple of years before he retires to lead us to the super bowl with the talent we have on this team. Huard will definitely be the qb for the chiefs next year and maybe the rest of the season as well. I'm sorry i just felt like releasing exactly what has been on my mind.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor

I just believe we just don't have the right players for this offense to work. CP is my favorite player on the team but he is just not as patient as he needs to be in order to make those running plays work. He just too fast for the blockers we have. I also believe that our o-line is not as good as Kansas City's. I have been watching the chiefs games all season long and other than the pittsburg game they have been moving the ball down the field with ease. I mean on paper we should be a lot better than them with the players we have and the offensiv coordinator. I think everything starts with the o-line. Of course I main problem is the qb play. I mean the chiefs have Damon Huard looking better then trent green this year. We just need a qb who can withstand the pass rush and complete the pass instead of throwing it away or taking a sack. If jason campbell is not the answer than maybe draft one in this year's draft or pick up green for a couple of years before he retires to lead us to the super bowl with the talent we have on this team. Huard will definitely be the qb for the chiefs next year and maybe the rest of the season as well. I'm sorry i just felt like releasing exactly what has been on my mind.

Randy Thomas isn't having a year like last year IMO. Not sure if it's the play calling or not, but I can remember him last year leading the way on alot of those counter-tre type plays. I always loved watching him pull because he was so fast and explosive. It may just be my imagination. As I've mentioned before, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to analyzing the o-line, but clearly they're struggling, as is most of the aspects of our team.

I think Jason Campbell is the answer, eventually. Remember our offense isn't horrible, It's just not where it needs to be. We need to be able to dictate what a defense has to do, not vice versa. Pretty basic stuff I'm saying here, but reality is were not far off on the "O" side of the ball. I think it was Matty in a post recently said something to the effect that he's exactly what we should have expected of him at this point. He wasn't suppose to come in and tear the roof off right away. We all need to relax, and not over-interpret his lack of play as lack of potential.

Defense is another story. There's so many variables and chaos theories of why we can't get it done, all with some serious validity. We may be worse off on defense than we think. Hopefully GW will turn things around in a hurry.

[offiss]

Great lines make good backs look great and avg backs look good, obviously Gibbs never understood what he had in the hogs, he's under the impresion that all you need is a high profile back and your off and running, no back can run without good blocking, Clinton Portis coming out of college looked to be a very good change of pace and third down type of back, but he was put into a system that allowed for big gains running the ball where he could use his speed to really run up some serious numbers, but just like most of the backs that go through denver he is a little better than avg back. personally I think he hits the holes to slow, he's still trying to run as if he was in denver waiting for the cut back that never comes. Stephen Jackson [st louis] would have been a much better fit for our offense, not to say we couldn't win with CP, just that 52 mil could have been spent on other players to help with pass protection and opening holes to run through etc. Not that we are capable of evaluating talent regardless of how many picks we have or how much money we have under the cap, we are horrible at talent evaluation.

But if we had a clue of how to draft, how much talent do you think we could have right now without 2 contracts, Brunell and Portis's 94mil? Keep in mind we could have traded Bailey for picks rather than giving up a second rounder, as well as giving up a second rounder for Brunell.

I am not even going to go into the rest of the picks we have thrown away!

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by offiss

Clinton Portis coming out of college looked to be a very good change of pace and third down type of back, but he was put into a system that allowed for big gains running the ball where he could use his speed to really run up some serious numbers, but just like most of the backs that go through denver he is a little better than avg back.

Little better than an average back?? Are you serious? He's probably one of the three most talented tailbacks in the NFL. Not to mention the fact that the slightly above average tailback set the Redskins single season rushing records behind the "slow" offensive line, just last year. I don't see how anyone can still call him a system back with what he's done since he's been in Washington.

And you're kidding yourself if you think Betts could handle the load. First of all, he's not the "power runner" that everyone seems to think he is. He may be a north/south runner, but if someone puts a hand on him, he's going down. Second, he's not durable. Even though he's only had a handful of starts in his four year career, he's been injured at least once in every season. Hell, even last week, when Brunell checked down to him several times in a row, he looked like he was having trouble getting back to the huddle by the third pass he caught.

[SmootSmack]

Portis is a system back....the NFL system

[The Zimmermans]

Originally Posted by offiss

Great lines make good backs look great and avg backs look good, obviously Gibbs never understood what he had in the hogs, he's under the impresion that all you need is a high profile back and your off and running, no back can run without good blocking, Clinton Portis coming out of college looked to be a very good change of pace and third down type of back, but he was put into a system that allowed for big gains running the ball where he could use his speed to really run up some serious numbers, but just like most of the backs that go through denver he is a little better than avg back. personally I think he hits the holes to slow, he's still trying to run as if he was in denver waiting for the cut back that never comes. Stephen Jackson [st louis] would have been a much better fit for our offense, not to say we couldn't win with CP, just that 52 mil could have been spent on other players to help with pass protection and opening holes to run through etc. Not that we are capable of evaluating talent regardless of how many picks we have or how much money we have under the cap, we are horrible at talent evaluation.

But if we had a clue of how to draft, how much talent do you think we could have right now without 2 contracts, Brunell and Portis's 94mil? Keep in mind we could have traded Bailey for picks rather than giving up a second rounder, as well as giving up a second rounder for Brunell.

I am not even going to go into the rest of the picks we have thrown away!

Portis is a top 5 back in the nfl. His running style is perfect, he hits holes very quickly, much quicker than Betts may i add, and recently he has been getting in the endzone effectively. He is also a very durable back, look how many carries he had two years ago and last year. this is his first year with injury trouble. YPC is overrated as well, tomlinson had just over 3 ypc his rookie year cause of a weak O-line. Portis is also a very effective receiver, and he seldom loses yards cause he's very effective at always falling forward. Run betts 30 times in a game and see what happens, probably a lot of crashing into his o linemen and a couple fumbles. Portis is our best player (maybe santana moss), he's the franchise, he's our best.

[SmootSmack]

Wasn't it a 3rd for Brunell? Either way, that's pretty presumptious I think to say that Gibbs has no appreciation for the value of a good offensive line

[JWsleep]

Gibbs doesn't know the value of an o-line? Come on! That is very tough to justify. Is he too fond of MB, is he over the hill in terms of modern offense, is he too conservative, sure we can talk. BUt the man showed ALL YOU NEED to win is an oline. He made Rypien a super-bowl MVP, for crying out loud!

I think JC will help, and I agree that it's not a surpirse that the offense has been inconsistent. It's complex, and the system takes time to become second nature for these guys. WHen it does, this o-line, with these WRs and Portis, should be fine--IF JC ever plays!

And please leave Champ out of this! Portis holds the single season redskin running record--with the so-called lame o-line you just called out. Whatever.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Gibbs doesn't know the value of an o-line? Come on! That is very tough to justify. Is he too fond of MB, is he over the hill in terms of modern offense, is he too conservative, sure we can talk. BUt the man showed ALL YOU NEED to win is an oline. He made Rypien a super-bowl MVP, for crying out loud!

I think JC will help, and I agree that it's not a surpirse that the offense has been inconsistent. It's complex, and the system takes time to become second nature for these guys. WHen it does, this o-line, with these WRs and Portis, should be fine--IF JC ever plays!

And please leave Champ out of this! Portis holds the single season redskin running record--with the so-called lame o-line you just called out. Whatever.

How many yards per carry? If you run a guy enough times he could eventually get 2000yds if he was capable of holding up. What's more important for an everydown running back, yds. per carry, or total yds? I say no question yds per carry, and if I am right about that then CP was the worst everydown back in the NFL that year, theres no getting around it. Just because Gibbs choose to run him into the ground to legitamize the signing is meaningless as far as I am concerned. And by the way Betts is averging more YDS per carry this year than Portis, and Betts comes in to get the tough yards.

No he didn't make SB MVP out of Rypien, our O-line did, the fact is Rypien wasen't anything to speak of before or after that year, and why? the O-line didn't allow anyone within 7 yards of him all year, we were on pace to set an NFL record for fewest sacks that year before the last game against the eagles. Did Gibbs take advantage of that? Absolutly, but I want to see him do it without a dominate O-line. Some here have been diverting attention from Brunell and have been blaming the O-line, well if that's the case who's responsible for the O-line, and why?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

How many yards per carry? If you run a guy enough times he could eventually get 2000yds if he was capable of holding up. What's more important for an everydown running back, yds. per carry, or total yds? I say no question yds per carry, and if I am right about that then CP was the worst everydown back in the NFL that year, theres no getting around it. Just because Gibbs choose to run him into the ground to legitamize the signing is meaningless as far as I am concerned. And by the way Betts is averging more YDS per carry this year than Portis, and Betts comes in to get the tough yards.

No he didn't make SB MVP out of Rypien, our O-line did, the fact is Rypien wasen't anything to speak of before or after that year, and why? the O-line didn't allow anyone within 7 yards of him all year, we were on pace to set an NFL record for fewest sacks that year before the last game against the eagles. Did Gibbs take advantage of that? Absolutly, but I want to see him do it without a dominate O-line. Some here have been diverting attention from Brunell and have been blaming the O-line, well if that's the case who's responsible for the O-line, and why?

Did this post make sense to anyone else? I mean, I don't pretend to be nearly as knowledgeable as Offiss is, none of us are, but this has me completely confused. Little help please. Thanks

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Did this post make sense to anyone else? I mean, I don't pretend to be nearly as knowledgeable as Offiss is, none of us are, but this has me completely confused. Little help please. Thanks

He seems to be saying that a 2000 yards season is within any backs reach if they get enough carries, that Betts is better than Portis, and that Gibbs is suspect until he wins without a "dominate O-line". All nonsense. Czabanesque nonsense.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

He seems to be saying that a 2000 yards season is within any backs reach if they get enough carries, that Betts is better than Portis, and that Gibbs is suspect until he wins without a "dominate O-line". All nonsense. Czabanesque nonsense.

But what I am also saying is, if our line is as bad as everyone thinks and I have thought it wasen't as good as everyone had made out in previous years than who's fault is it? Is it not Gibbs fault for not identifing such a glaring need at such a vital area of the team?

I can't help but wonder how many championships Gibbs may have won if it wasen't for that great line he had for 10 years, and we are talking all time great here. The fact is many coaches may have been able to win with that line, then again maybe not, Gibbs did what any good coach would do utilize his talent. But Gibbs had times during his first tenure when we couldn't move the ball like when we made the switch from Joey T to Schroeder, the offense took off once that happened, it always seemed back in the 80's the offense was as good as the QB, that's how it was for JG. Maybe it's still the same way, maybe all our problems stem from the QB and I have a strong feeling for the most part it does, then maybe Gibbs really hasen't lost it, maybe it's more of an ego thing that he can't swallow his pride on Brunell, either way he has to take the fall.

I for one am willing to cut the line some slack even though I have felt that Samuels is highly overated and have thought that for a 3 or 4 years now, Jansen has been a rock for us but is defiently having a down year, Dockery weighs 350 and plays like he's 250, and I felt we could have drafted better than Rabach, but there glaring faults could be under a huge spotlight because of the QB play, and until [as the grim reap put it] we cut off the head I for one will give them a pass [no pun intended].

And here's an example of why, our favorite team in the whole world made a switch tonight against one of the toughest defenses in the league with maybe the toughest D-line, and what happened? An undrafted QB with zero starts came in and managed the game and made some key plays, did he do anything spectacular? No, but he hung in the pocket didn't crumble when players were near him and made throws downfield when need be he was more concerned about making a play than when he was going to be hit, and all we heard is how the Boy's O-line can't protect, and no way will they keep Carolina from killing Romo, well Dallas's line didn't do to bad tonight did they? And all they did was replace the QB, Bledsoe is Brunells twin at QB, the only difference is Bledsoe stands in the pocket and waits to get hit, Brunell can't even do that he throws it immediatly as soon as he see's a different colored jersey on his side of the line of scrimmage, where he throws it is of no concern to him, or apparently Gibbs, so long as it's not an INT. Tonight we saw exactly why Parcells used to own Gibbs, because he identified his problem and fixed it with an undrafted QB, Gibbs still has no clue and gave up plenty for mister ACCURATE, and we think the world of him JC, so to put it bluntly, Dallas is winning with undrafted QB's and we can't get our big time 1st rounder on the field to take an NFL snap! So Gibbs will spend 2 weeks trying to fix Brunell and find out against the Boys that all the kings horses and all the king's men can't put our humpty dumpty back together again. And then we will be treated to all the excuses! Where's Lawerence Taylor when you need him?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Did this post make sense to anyone else? I mean, I don't pretend to be nearly as knowledgeable as Offiss is, none of us are, but this has me completely confused. Little help please. Thanks

my head hurts

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by offiss

How many yards per carry? If you run a guy enough times he could eventually get 2000yds if he was capable of holding up. What's more important for an everydown running back, yds. per carry, or total yds? I say no question yds per carry, and if I am right about that then CP was the worst everydown back in the NFL that year, theres no getting around it. Just because Gibbs choose to run him into the ground to legitamize the signing is meaningless as far as I am concerned. And by the way Betts is averging more YDS per carry this year than Portis, and Betts comes in to get the tough yards.
...

I totally disagree on the YPC vs. total yards argument. If YPC were so much more valuable, Barry Sanders would have 3 Super Bowl rings. I'll take a back like Emmitt Smith, or Portis for that matter, who gets the tough yards instead of dancing in the backfield for a loss. John Riggins is another classic example of a runner who ground out tough first downs. Few people realize that Barry Sanders ALWAYS led the league in negative yardage rushes, often putting his teams in long yardage situations. Detroit's inconsistency sustaining drives was directly related to being forced to pass. And don't tell me about Sanders' lame O-line - he had Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover, both Pro Bowlers. But enough of that tangent.

Portis is the right back for this offense, and once the O-line does a better job, including pass protection to allow Brunell to get the ball downfield, Portis will see fewer "8 in the box" schemes. And BTW, his 4.3 YPC average last year was more than respectable.

[Big C]

4.3 YPC last year for portis, that is pretty good