Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Threads

[sportscurmudgeon]

I'll leave all of the details here to the Warpath historians - TAFKAS & Matty predominantly - to get all the details right. But a couple of years ago, I recall a few folks here on the Warpath asserting that Patrick Ramsey was going to become a great NFL QB and part of their "reasoning" was that in his first 15 games (?) as a starter, he had a better record than Brett Favre did or Peyton Manning did or John Elway did.

The latest from the NY Daily News is that the Jets are gonna cut Ramsey soon because if they don't they owe him a $1.4M roster bonus. They'll try to trade him of course, but they've sort of decided that they don't need his services in NYC any longer.


New York Daily News - Sports - Jets set to toss Ramsey


So, what's the deal here? Is Ramsey still going to become a QB of the caliber of Favre/Manning/Elway (Hall of Fame players no doubt), or is he someone not worth the price of a phone call to see what his asking price is?

I'll vote for "not worth the price ... "

Patrick Ramsey = Thousand Dollar Arm + One Dollar Brain.

[70Chip]

Yeah,the word on Patrick was that he wasn't real bright. Of course, that was the word on Shuler too - now he's in the congress, which sort of reinforces the point. Maybe Ramsey could go into politics.

Now let's see what Offiss has to say:

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Yeah,the word on Patrick was that he wasn't real bright. Of course, that was the word on Shuler too - now he's in the congress, which sort of reinforces the point. Maybe Ramsey could go into politics.

Now let's see what Offiss has to say:

I could see a Shuler/Ramsey ticket in the future. :cheeky-sm

[offiss]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Yeah,the word on Patrick was that he wasn't real bright. Of course, that was the word on Shuler too - now he's in the congress, which sort of reinforces the point. Maybe Ramsey could go into politics.

Now let's see what Offiss has to say:

You wanted it you got it, first off Ramsey has more brains in his little toe than Campbell or Brunell will ever know.

My whole contention about Ramsey has been he was never given any kind of a fair shake by Gibbs and I still stand by that, can anyone truely say we are better off right now with Brunell than had we stuck with Ramsey? I don't know how you could? Even if Ramsey was a backup his value would be far greater than Brunell, and cost a lot less money. But knowbody ever wants to allow a player to grow, especially at QB, Ramsey had how many starts? Not enough for 1 full season, I would bring him back in a heartbeat he would be great ins. for Campbell.

I wonder how many of you gave up on Betts? I know I wasen't one of them, I said all along he was a better between the tackles runner than Portis, he hit's the hole harder, and faster than Portis and proved it last season, but he was a piece of garbage until the second half of last season, now we have guys arguing to keep him here unless someone offers a 1st rd pick, funny Gibbs couldn't see Betts talent when he arrived he just ran out and traded for Portis. Yes Betts had health issues but that can't be predicted his talent as a runner was what we had to go on and he's very talented.

I do have to ask what was so great about Campbell last season? Did he do something above average, or was he pretty much below average, I for one was glad to see him in there, but I also have been stareing at Brunell for 3 years, that's kind of like watching some old lady on a treadmill for 3 hours every sunday for 3 years only to have someone take you to the kentucky derby, your horse may come in last but it's a lot more fun to watch.

To put it plain and simple I am not backing off Ramsey I still feel he will succeed it's just a matter of time.

On a lesser note how good is Drew Brees right now? You know the QB who was on the verge of being released after 3 years, the big time bust? He seemed to become a pretty good QB, how many times do we here a QB needs at least 3 years of playing time to really blossom? Well Ramsey was never afforded that opportunity by Gibbs.

And while we are bashing people for performance let's throw one more into the ring who deserves the biggest slam of all for all around performance, that honor goes to one JOE GIBBS! Kudos JG he's a genious at keeping us in the lottery to bad we only have 1 pick, and he will probably screw that up as well.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

I do have to ask what was so great about Campbell last season? Did he do something above average, or was he pretty much below average[.]

In addition to an arm just as good as Ramsey's, I saw some incredible athleticism and instinct. I don't remember the game but we were on the 5 yard line or so, JC got flat out hit and still makes the throw for a TD. Several times at the home games, I saw him "feel" the open spot where a blitzer had come from and hit the hot read in that area. Again, I don't remember the specific game, but with a blitzer coming, JC lofted a nice 5-yard touch pass to a receiver who then turned it into a solid gain. Nice enough in itself, but, what made it really incredible, was that the play was clearly designed to go to the opposite side of the field - so JC: 1) felt the backside blitz; 2) avoided it long enough to turn and face the opposite direction; 3) tossed a sweet pass over the arms of the blitzer who was a yard or two away and closing fast.

I remember Ramsey making some nice throws and good plays, but they were always the ones accomplished by arm strength or toughness - not instinct.

In one-half of a season, I saw more athleticism and, more importantly, more football instinct from JC than I saw in PR's entire time with the Skins.

Ramsey may very well be much smarter than JC, but I think it is pretty clear that when it comes to having a feel for the game, JC is way beyond PR.

[FRPLG]

I think in retrospect Ramsey lacked a lot. Some his fault and some out of his control. What he had in passing skills he lacked in overall athletic ability and certainly never had what anyone could call a good situation. But without that athletic ability I think he never could have maximized his passing skills, in any situation, simply because so much of being a good NFL QB involves mustering your athletic ability to make plays and Ramsey just didn't have that.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think in retrospect Ramsey lacked a lot. Some his fault and some out of his control. What he had in passing skills he lacked in overall athletic ability and certainly never had what anyone could call a good situation. But without that athletic ability I think he never could have maximized his passing skills, in any situation, simply because so much of being a good NFL QB involves mustering your athletic ability to make plays and Ramsey just didn't have that.

I am in no means disagreeing with the Ramsey comments. But I dont recall Marino, Bledsoe, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Unitas, Stallback...on and on being great athletes. They could throw the ball. which Ramsey can surely do.

My thoughts are he played well in a year when Spurrier thought blocking was secondary to getting receivers down field. And absolute given no shot when Gibbs took over. 1st year in NY had to deal with Pennington being the man, never really given a shot. I think he can be a good..not great..QB. maybe get your team to the playoffs, not sure about a superbowl. But, Ramsey needs to be in a situation where he is THE MAN, where he doesn't need to look over his shoulder ever quarter.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

But I dont recall Marino, Bledsoe, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Unitas, Stallback...on and on being great athletes. They could throw the ball. which Ramsey can surely do.

Each one had more athletic ability. Each, as I remember, was able to move around the pocket and make time. Ramsey was a sitting target. Not once do I remember him sliding in the pocket or stepping up out of a collapsing pocket to create more time to make a play. In fact I distinctly remember watching Ramsey get sacked over and over again and not doing anything to avoid it. How many times did he drop back and just basically fall down as the guy got to him? Sometimes it even looked like a designed play...drop and fall down. Successful QBs do their fair share of sack avoidance and they use their atheltic abilities to do so. Peyton isn't any faster than Ramsey but he has good quick footwork and decent enough agility to use it to avoid maybe 10-15 sacks a year. Ramsey didn't ever show the agility to do it.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Each one had more athletic ability. Each, as I remember, was able to move around the pocket and make time. Ramsey was a sitting target. Not once do I remember him sliding in the pocket or stepping up out of a collapsing pocket to create more time to make a play. In fact I distinctly remember watching Ramsey get sacked over and over again and not doing anything to avoid it. How many times did he drop back and just basically fall down as the guy got to him? Sometimes it even looked like a designed play...drop and fall down. Successful QBs do their fair share of sack avoidance and they use their atheltic abilities to do so. Peyton isn't any faster than Ramsey but he has good quick footwork and decent enough agility to use it to avoid maybe 10-15 sacks a year. Ramsey didn't ever show the agility to do it.

are you serious. who out here thinks Marino was more than a statue in the pocket. Williams, Rypien, Unitas, they couldn't move out of there own way. I am sorry, but I dont recall these guys being very "mobile" Ramsey, I agree was very challenged in the mobility department, plus he heald on to the ball WAY TOO long, which accounts for a lot of those sacks. Dude, seriously..Marino avoided a great number of his sacks because he had the ability to get the ball out faster than anyone has ever seen. Rypien, Williams had basically steel walls in front of them. If you recall, the redskins O-Line gave up what 9 sacks that whole year Rypien let us to the bowl, same for Dougy while he was playing. Lets not say they were mobile, I think all of us know they lacked that.

Bledsoe? how many times did he get sacked in his career? All most as much as anyone in history, why? because he doesn't move and holds on to the ball way too long. Unitas, are you kidding? he never moved. You make it sound like we need vick (OVERRATED) or freakin fran tarkenten or something.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Each one had more athletic ability. Each, as I remember, was able to move around the pocket and make time. Ramsey was a sitting target. Not once do I remember him sliding in the pocket or stepping up out of a collapsing pocket to create more time to make a play. In fact I distinctly remember watching Ramsey get sacked over and over again and not doing anything to avoid it. How many times did he drop back and just basically fall down as the guy got to him? Sometimes it even looked like a designed play...drop and fall down. Successful QBs do their fair share of sack avoidance and they use their atheltic abilities to do so. Peyton isn't any faster than Ramsey but he has good quick footwork and decent enough agility to use it to avoid maybe 10-15 sacks a year. Ramsey didn't ever show the agility to do it.

Well let me refresh your memory, monday night against the jets under SS one of the jets came on the blitz he ducked under him the player just missed taking his head off and then yanking him down from behind he then threw and completed a strike 40 yards downfield, there you go.

You can say he held the ball to long but he never had any time to hold it, no different than Brunell, only Brunell would throw the ball away the instant it was hiked, Ramsey had the guts to try and hang in the pocket and make a play with absolutly no protection, thats on the coaches. Of coarse all anyone would say about Brunell since he's been here is that he's afraid to hang in the pocket and make a play. Guys around here make it sound as if Ramsey had all day to throw, let alone just adequet protection, THAT WAS NEVER THE CASE!

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

I am curious, who on our roster was going to play ahead of Pennington? The fact is no one on our roster could make the Jets team [other than Campbell], they don't waste thier time with has beens and never been's, it's nice to see a team doing what they are supposed to be doing grooming a young guy for the backup position and as a future starter, who also could bring back a lot of value in a trade once he developes, lucky us we have no one who can step in and lead this team if Campbell goes down, and we really don't know if Campbell can lead?

I think it's an absolute joke that Brunell is being considered for the primary backup, A JOKE! Of coarse why stop now it was the biggest joke around the league when we traded for him.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well let me refresh your memory, monday night against the jets under SS one of the jets came on the blitz he ducked under him the player just missed taking his head off and then yanking him down from behind he then threw and completed a strike 40 yards downfield, there you go.

To nitpick, I think he dodged LB Sam Cowart.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

... The fact is no one on our roster could make the Jets team [other than Campbell], they don't waste thier time with has beens and never been's[.]

All I know is that Portis said that with Campbell's arm strength they should be having someone running the deep post every play. Sounds like he's got more than enough arm for the job. Plus, I saw more than a little sizzle on several throws. Strong as Ramsey's? Maybe, Maybe not. If you've got something definitive, I'll be glad to look at it.

As for the Jets not wasting their time on "never been's", they did, in fact, trade a sixth round choice to us for a "never been".

As for "better than Pennington" - TAKE THE DAMN JOB! THAT'S WHAT PENNINGTON DID! Right out of Ramsey's great arm and tough as nails attitude.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by offiss

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

This statement here, in a microcosm, shows why it is dumb to even discuss this stuff with you. You don't know what you are talking about. To say "no where's near" is a gross overstatement and to say "slightly" is to show how misguided you are. I'm done.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well let me refresh your memory, monday night against the jets under SS one of the jets came on the blitz he ducked under him the player just missed taking his head off and then yanking him down from behind he then threw and completed a strike 40 yards downfield, there you go.

You can say he held the ball to long but he never had any time to hold it, no different than Brunell, only Brunell would throw the ball away the instant it was hiked, Ramsey had the guts to try and hang in the pocket and make a play with absolutly no protection, thats on the coaches. Of coarse all anyone would say about Brunell since he's been here is that he's afraid to hang in the pocket and make a play. Guys around here make it sound as if Ramsey had all day to throw, let alone just adequet protection, THAT WAS NEVER THE CASE!

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

I am curious, who on our roster was going to play ahead of Pennington? The fact is no one on our roster could make the Jets team [other than Campbell], they don't waste thier time with has beens and never been's, it's nice to see a team doing what they are supposed to be doing grooming a young guy for the backup position and as a future starter, who also could bring back a lot of value in a trade once he developes, lucky us we have no one who can step in and lead this team if Campbell goes down, and we really don't know if Campbell can lead?

I think it's an absolute joke that Brunell is being considered for the primary backup, A JOKE! Of coarse why stop now it was the biggest joke around the league when we traded for him.

Help me out O, what is it you.........like about the Skins? By appearances, the only player you have any regard for is gettin' his ass kicked off his second team.
Let's see, Coach sucks, players suck, etc sucks, except PR. Let's take the short list. What Do you LIKE about the Redskins?
Are you like the Anti-fan in disguise?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well let me refresh your memory, monday night against the jets under SS one of the jets came on the blitz he ducked under him the player just missed taking his head off and then yanking him down from behind he then threw and completed a strike 40 yards downfield, there you go.

You can say he held the ball to long but he never had any time to hold it, no different than Brunell, only Brunell would throw the ball away the instant it was hiked, Ramsey had the guts to try and hang in the pocket and make a play with absolutly no protection, thats on the coaches. Of coarse all anyone would say about Brunell since he's been here is that he's afraid to hang in the pocket and make a play. Guys around here make it sound as if Ramsey had all day to throw, let alone just adequet protection, THAT WAS NEVER THE CASE!

As for arm strength, Campbell has no where's near the arm that Ramsey has, Cambpell despite what some may think does not possess a big arm he has maybe slightly above average arm strength.

I am curious, who on our roster was going to play ahead of Pennington? The fact is no one on our roster could make the Jets team [other than Campbell], they don't waste thier time with has beens and never been's, it's nice to see a team doing what they are supposed to be doing grooming a young guy for the backup position and as a future starter, who also could bring back a lot of value in a trade once he developes, lucky us we have no one who can step in and lead this team if Campbell goes down, and we really don't know if Campbell can lead?

I think it's an absolute joke that Brunell is being considered for the primary backup, A JOKE! Of coarse why stop now it was the biggest joke around the league when we traded for him.

So Campbell doesn't have, according to Offiss Hawkings, the arm strength that Ramsey does. And I'm assuming you're also saying that overall Ramsey is better than Campbell. Yet then you say Campbell could make the Jets team...the same Jets team that's eager to unload Ramsey.