Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 03-22-2007, 02:59 PM

I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest blog states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams.

IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years.

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet.

Let the rebuttals begin.

MTK · 03-22-2007, 03:01 PM

I've always thought that Vinny got way too much blame around here. That being said, if he came on this board he would face an immediate 3 month ban. See you in 3 months Vinny!

MTK · 03-22-2007, 03:05 PM

Is anyone else sick of the groceries analogy everyone has used since Parcells first made that famous remark?? I sure am.

ArtMonkDrillz · 03-22-2007, 03:09 PM

Vinny C needs to be fired. I mean if Gibbs wants to cook the dinner he should be in charge of buying the groceries.

Matty, what was that about the tuna?

SouperMeister · 03-23-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Vinny C needs to be fired. I mean if Gibbs wants to cook the dinner he should be in charge of buying the groceries.

Matty, what was that about the tuna?

Why do so many keep giving Gibbs a free pass on bad personnel decisions and questionable trades of future draft picks??? Gibbs is THE PRESIDENT OF FOOTBALL OPERATIONS. He has the FINAL say on all personnel decisions that have been done since he returned, including signing Brunell, Archuletta, trading future draft choices for Duckett and Lloyd. Not every decisions has been bad, but it has been Gibbs's mismanagement of mid-round draft choices that has cost the team valuable depth. That we only have a single pick on the first day, then nothing more until round 5 is a testament to that mismanagement.

ArtMonkDrillz · 03-22-2007, 03:16 PM

So from the tone of the article I'm getting the idea that we should all be pissed at Danny Boy and President Gibbs (not Coach Gibbs) for paying so much and/or trading away some many of our valuable picks.
If the problem comes from Danny throwing too much money at these guys all the time doesn't that mean that we do need a good GM who's not afraid to stand up to him?
The only problem is that it seems like anyone who would stand up and say "No, we can't pay this player twice his market value," runs the risk of being fired on the spot.

#56fanatic · 03-22-2007, 03:26 PM

I have been saying all along that Gibbs and GW are the ones who are picking these free agents. Vinny and who ever else are the ones that put the list of available FA or RFA to the table. Gibbs and GW get their picks. Danny is the one that signs the checks. Gibbs and GW meet with these players and their agents are the ones that put the contracts on the table. If gibbs and Co. want the player, Danny gives out the dough. Vinny may take a more prominant role of evaluating college talent, but given our picks since he's been here, most have been no brainers. I'll give Cooley being drafted a pretty damn good pick, but the others are 1st rounders, LaVar, Samuels, Champ, Taylor, Rogers, and Campbell. Dockery in my eyes was another no brainer, an all american coming from a big program dropping to the 3rd round. I have not blamed Vinny for any of the FO mistakes the past so many years. I believe, to Dannys fault, he puts way too much weight on what the coaches are asking for. Vinny is a yes man, and to an extent Danny is Joe's yes man.

Beemnseven · 03-22-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I have been saying all along that Gibbs and GW are the ones who are picking these free agents. Vinny and who ever else are the ones that put the list of available FA or RFA to the table. Gibbs and GW get their picks. Danny is the one that signs the checks. Gibbs and GW meet with these players and their agents are the ones that put the contracts on the table. If gibbs and Co. want the player, Danny gives out the dough. Vinny may take a more prominant role of evaluating college talent, but given our picks since he's been here, most have been no brainers. I'll give Cooley being drafted a pretty damn good pick, but the others are 1st rounders, LaVar, Samuels, Champ, Taylor, Rogers, and Campbell. Dockery in my eyes was another no brainer, an all american coming from a big program dropping to the 3rd round. I have not blamed Vinny for any of the FO mistakes the past so many years. I believe, to Dannys fault, he puts way too much weight on what the coaches are asking for. Vinny is a yes man, and to an extent Danny is Joe's yes man.

Vinny wasn't here when we drafted Champ. And while Cooley looks to be a decent pick, we gave up 2 picks to get him.

If you really get down to it, Dockery and Rock Cartwright were the only suprise gems this crowd has been able to unearth in six drafts.

JDALY27 · 03-23-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Vinny wasn't here when we drafted Champ. And while Cooley looks to be a decent pick, we gave up 2 picks to get him.

If you really get down to it, Dockery and Rock Cartwright were the only suprise gems this crowd has been able to unearth in six drafts.

Cooley was decent? Sean Taylor? Betts? Campbell?

Cooley is awesome bro!!

Beemnseven · 03-23-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDALY27

Cooley was decent? Sean Taylor? Betts? Campbell?

Cooley is awesome bro!!

A real "steal" would have been us getting Cooley without having to trade a future pick to get him. He was a 2-for-1 deal. And I hope you're sitting down because ... I don't put Cooley in the top tier of tight ends in the league.

Sean Taylor was a no-brainer, and yet he still has issues of his own to address before he can honestly be labeled a 'complete' safety. He still needs some progress.

And Betts? Many knowledgeable football people in 2002 had him rated as a 4th round pick, so it was a big-time reach for us to take him in the second round. And while he turned it on and gave us the performance of a lifetime last year, overall I don't think you can say his total output has been worthy of a second round pick -- they should be starters, not back-up guys.

Look, I can dissect just about everything this front office has done and find fault with it. I'll give them Dockery and Cartwright -- those were the only unexpected draft picks that turned out to be worth a toot. Some will dismiss that as pessimism, but I say it's an honest assessment. 41-55 over the six seasons speaks for itself.

Beemnseven · 03-22-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest blog states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams.

IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years.

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet.

Let the rebuttals begin.

Maybe the blame for Cerrato is misplaced. Maybe it's misplaced for Gibbs. Misplaced for Snyder ...

To whom do we direct the blame for this franchise?

Or are people like me completely wrong and everything's just fine?

EEich · 03-22-2007, 04:14 PM

So... Arch Deluxe, Lloyd, etc must have passed Vinny's basic suck test before they got to the negotiation stage...

RobH4413 · 03-22-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow
Let the rebuttals begin.

If I recall correctly, wasn't AA GW's boy? To my understanding GW said "I want, go get" and it was done. Granted I'm sure that it probably had to go through vinny as some sort of filter, but who's going to say no to a defensive guru.

Also, does Vinny incorporate character issues, or is he strictly talent? I can see Lloyd being a character bust, but he clearly has talent, it's just not consistent when his attitude is involved.

dmek25 · 03-22-2007, 04:52 PM

even if A.A. was Greg Williams " boy", someone ahead of him in the pecking order should have done their homework, and said no way. we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office

RobH4413 · 03-22-2007, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

even if A.A. was Greg Williams " boy", someone ahead of him in the pecking order should have done their homework, and said no way. we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office

This is true. I just think we can't lump AA in the cons column under Cerrato's resume because we just don't know if it was his call.

I tend to think Vinny has done a pretty good job at scouting when you look at the team.

Our DL issues are probably completely rested on his shoulder.

03-22-2007, 02:59 PM	#1
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest blog states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams. IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years. It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet. Let the rebuttals begin.

03-22-2007, 03:01 PM	#2
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ I've always thought that Vinny got way too much blame around here. That being said, if he came on this board he would face an immediate 3 month ban. See you in 3 months Vinny! __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-22-2007, 03:05 PM	#3
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ Is anyone else sick of the groceries analogy everyone has used since Parcells first made that famous remark?? I sure am. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-22-2007, 03:09 PM	#4
ArtMonkDrillz Franchise Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ellicott City, MD Age: 42 Posts: 8,029	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ Vinny C needs to be fired. I mean if Gibbs wants to cook the dinner he should be in charge of buying the groceries. Matty, what was that about the tuna? __________________ "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." The Dude

03-22-2007, 03:16 PM	#6
ArtMonkDrillz Franchise Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ellicott City, MD Age: 42 Posts: 8,029	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ So from the tone of the article I'm getting the idea that we should all be pissed at Danny Boy and President Gibbs (not Coach Gibbs) for paying so much and/or trading away some many of our valuable picks. If the problem comes from Danny throwing too much money at these guys all the time doesn't that mean that we do need a good GM who's not afraid to stand up to him? The only problem is that it seems like anyone who would stand up and say "No, we can't pay this player twice his market value," runs the risk of being fired on the spot. __________________ "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." The Dude

03-22-2007, 03:26 PM	#7
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ I have been saying all along that Gibbs and GW are the ones who are picking these free agents. Vinny and who ever else are the ones that put the list of available FA or RFA to the table. Gibbs and GW get their picks. Danny is the one that signs the checks. Gibbs and GW meet with these players and their agents are the ones that put the contracts on the table. If gibbs and Co. want the player, Danny gives out the dough. Vinny may take a more prominant role of evaluating college talent, but given our picks since he's been here, most have been no brainers. I'll give Cooley being drafted a pretty damn good pick, but the others are 1st rounders, LaVar, Samuels, Champ, Taylor, Rogers, and Campbell. Dockery in my eyes was another no brainer, an all american coming from a big program dropping to the 3rd round. I have not blamed Vinny for any of the FO mistakes the past so many years. I believe, to Dannys fault, he puts way too much weight on what the coaches are asking for. Vinny is a yes man, and to an extent Danny is Joe's yes man.

03-22-2007, 04:14 PM	#12
EEich The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bristol, CT Age: 60 Posts: 1,001	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ So... Arch Deluxe, Lloyd, etc must have passed Vinny's basic suck test before they got to the negotiation stage...

03-22-2007, 04:52 PM	#14
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ even if A.A. was Greg Williams " boy", someone ahead of him in the pecking order should have done their homework, and said no way. we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

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