Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

[Schneed10]

A good read from Mark Stevens on DE Andre Carter:

Yes, statistics can be deceiving. But sometimes a look at the raw data helps paint a clearer picture. In this case, the picture is of a player who, after being next to invisible for his first 11 games, came quite abruptly into focus in the remaining five:

Through his first 11 games, Carter recorded 20 solo tackles, three assists and two sacks. Included in that run were two games in which he was shut out--zero tackles, assists or sacks--and three other games where he managed only a single solo tackle (recording an assist in one and a sack in another).

Over his last five games, Carter recorded 27 solo tackles, six assists and four sacks. Included in that run were games of 9/2/1, 7/1/1 and 8/0/1.

There is no guarantee Carter's play in 2007 will consistently reach the level of his play late in 2006. But there is also no guarantee that what we saw down the stretch wasn't a sign of things to come.

Given that the strongest part of his season was toward the end, as he grew more comfortable and confident in his role, one could make the case that the more reasonable expectation is the latter.

Blog: One Fan's View

This is a big reason why I think DT is the much bigger need. I think we've got a strong pass-rushing DE already.

[JDALY27]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

A good read from Mark Stevens on DE Andre Carter:




Blog: One Fan's View

This is a big reason why I think DT is the much bigger need. I think we've got a strong pass-rushing DE already.

I don't like Daniels as a starter on the end. He is quality depth but should not be our go to guy at DE across from Carter. Draft DT or DE at # 6.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by JDALY27

I don't like Daniels as a starter on the end. He is quality depth but should not be our go to guy at DE across from Carter. Draft DT or DE at # 6.

Well, I presented a theory in another thread that said to fill a gaping need, you need to do it with a cheaper end vet and a high draft pick.

Daniels at this point would be the immediate solution to the vet side of that. With him at LE, we don't have a gaping hole. We just simply don't have any youth.

In fact, I don't believe that we have a gaping hole anywhere in the line. I think we are just starting 4 below average players, and when you do that at the defenses most criticial position, bad things happen to the entire defense. But we don't need to bring in any older vet FAs to make any quick fixes is what I'm saying.

The only guy in the first round of the draft that could play LE for us is Adam Carriker. While I think he is a good prospect, his skill set doesn't strike me as being all that unique. He's going to be a good one in this league, but Okoye would do so much more for this team once he's in his prime than Carriker will.

It's going to take multiple years to get some youth accross the line, but if we take DT now, we can reevaluate our DE situation after the season to find our biggest need. Maybe in 2007, Andre Carter becomes the sack master we thought he would. Certainly in that case, we wouldn't look to draft a smaller pass rushing defensive end in 2008. We could be scouring the 2nd and 3rd rounds for a guy who is 280-285 with lots of college experience and a good universial grade from scouts.

Maybe in 2007, Carter actually regresses from his poor 2006 campaign. If this happens, we should go into the 2008 draft looking to pick the best DE available (regardless of style), because no longer should Andre Carter be in the future plans.

Ultimately, while Carriker would be the one universal DE prospect who would help our scheme no matter what, theres much better value in waiting a year to better evaluate our DE situation, so we know just how much value we are looking for. Since we know what our DT situation will be like next year without a second year player ready to step into an important role, that certainly seems to be our biggest need.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by JDALY27

I don't like Daniels as a starter on the end. He is quality depth but should not be our go to guy at DE across from Carter. Draft DT or DE at # 6.

I think Daniels might have another serviceable year in him as a starter. Now that he's back working out on his own he'll have nothing to complain about if he struggles. He's nothing flashy, but he's certainly quality depth at the very least.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by JDALY27

I don't like Daniels as a starter on the end. He is quality depth but should not be our go to guy at DE across from Carter. Draft DT or DE at # 6.

No trades for No.6, please. No trading up or down. Our greed will get us in trouble. We should draft Adams or Okoye at No. 6. One of them, or both, will be available.

[MTK]

Carter really came on down the stretch last year, hopefully he can pick up where he left off. If he can I could see him notching 10 sacks or more.

At this point I wouldn't mind seeing us draft a DT or DE, I would be happy with either one. We had problems with stopping the run and creating pressure last year, so it might be unreasonable to think we can completely solve both problems in one offseason, and some of the solution needs to come from guys improving on their disappointing play from last year, and the further development of guys like Golston and Montgomery.

[Southpaw]

Of the two big defensive signings last year(Carter and Archuleta), I was far more happy with the Carter signing. Even when he was struggling early, I knew he had the ability to make plays, which he showed down the stretch. I still think drafting an end or tackle is top priority, because many of us have been screaming for this team to draft a freak defensive lineman for 4+ years now, and the sack totals for the line as a whole have been laughable in recent years.

[freddyg12]

Carter looked good when we were in games or ahead cause he could rush the passer. When we got behind , e.g. NYG game, he got run all over. He's not a great every down DE, but he can be a force if we get ahead in games.

I thought DE was our biggest need, but I'm not convinced anymore. I think we draft the best player between the 2 positions, which I think is Okoye. Anderson & Carriker also look good if we pick later.

[MTK]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read about Carriker he sounds like a guy who plays with a high motor and is stout against the run, but his pass rushing abilities are lacking a bit. That concerns me. Plus I've read that he might be a better fit in a 3-4.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read about Carriker he sounds like a guy who plays with a high motor and is stout against the run, but his pass rushing abilities are lacking a bit. That concerns me. Plus I've read that he might be a better fit in a 3-4.

Yeah, that's generally the vibe.

Pass rushing skills tend to develop later in a guy's career than any other skills, so while he may never be a dominant pass rusher, theres a chance he gets better at it than scouts ever think he will be.

He's got the blend of size and atleticism we will need to compliment a speed rusher. The fact that he is stout vs. the run peaks my interest in him even more. He seems like the kind of guy that you could stick at LE, and he will keep your line from being weak vs the run for the next 12 years.

My point is that I'd rather take Okoye now, and reevaluate the DE situation later. Strange stuff can happen like Demetric Evans develops mad pass rushing skillz and earns the starting role at LE. Our DT situation has little youth beyond the pair of 6th rounders we took last year (well, 5th in Montgomery's case). If we can grow a starter out of Golston, that'd be fantastic, but 3-4 years down the road, we could have our hands on the most dominating force at DT in the league, and he'd only be 23.

[FRPLG]

My mind has alway been that any DE we get would play running and passing downs while Daniels and Carter rotate based on situation. Daniels is slightly more solid on the run while Carter is so on the pass.

If we can't get an every down force against the run and pass I'd take a DT and stick with what we got at DE.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

A good read from Mark Stevens on DE Andre Carter:




Blog: One Fan's View

This is a big reason why I think DT is the much bigger need. I think we've got a strong pass-rushing DE already.

Good read about Carter over on Redskins.com. Let's hope he can continue with the effort he put forth down the stretch last season. If the coaching staff is convinced he can, that would (to a lesser degree) decrease our absolute need to draft a DE. Both positions DE & DT could use upgrades, I just don't know how high the team is on Montgomery & Golston at this time.

Initally I was in favor of us drafting Alan Branch at #6, but with his stock falling as a result of his combine workouts I'm having some reservations. If the team decides to draft a DT as opposed to DE, I am also impressed with Amobi Okoye, a very young player with a lot of up-side who (baring injury) could play for a long time in the NFL. I would be satisfied with either a DE or DT at #6 if they chose to stay put.

[dmek25]

i agree with you about the biggest need being defensive tackle. but, i don't want Branch. so who would be the next choice? thats why i want Adams, to turn up the pressure on opposing quarterbacks

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i agree with you about the biggest need being defensive tackle. but, i don't want Branch. so who would be the next choice? thats why i want Adams, to turn up the pressure on opposing quarterbacks

What becomes of Carter then?

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Carter's replacement now, but what happens when if we were to get a Drew Brees effect, and Carter becomes a machine. You hurt your run defense bad if you play two undersized ends at the same time, so essentially with Adams it's him or Carter. That leaves three DL positions that still need to be filled.

Drafting Okoye gives us the interior pass rush that not even Adams can bring, and he's going to be better vs the run. Theres a chance that Carter doesn't pan out and you still have to fill 3 spots, but at least we are talking about a situation that CAN improve. If we take Adams, he becomes the RE no matter how good Carter becomes, which isn't a good thing.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What becomes of Carter then?

Adams plays the opposite of carter. one of them would have to occasionally face the tight-end. but the colts have 2 very light ends, and they still get their sacks. like i said before, its just something they have, that knack for getting the quarterback. and Phil Daniels probably would be alot more effective being used as a situational pass rusher