Running Game

EternalEnigma21 · 12-07-2007, 08:42 PM

Where'd it go? I thought for sure since we were getting Randy Thomas and Mike Sellers back we were going to run it down their throats...

Were they just stacking the line against us the last couple of weeks? The bears have been getting run on like crazy and we were getting stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey....

(or irish's ass)

where's our running game and can we resurrect it before we play the giants?

we're gonna need it!

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 12-07-2007, 09:24 PM

Portis isn't playing like an elite back, but I don't buy for a second that he's washed up. Even guys like LT have averaged under 4.0 yards per carry in a season. Our inability to run the ball is a function of our inability to block. How many times did you see Portis get hit in the backfield last night, and not just by one guy but multiple guys? How many times did you see the line open up holes that anyone bigger than Vern Troyer could actually fit through. Granted, our #1 RT is on IR, our #2 RT is injured, our FB is injured, but come on.

Cowell · 12-07-2007, 09:25 PM

I too really don't think that it's Portis's fault. The line is getting no push and they aren't holding onto their blocks. We look like a high school team when we try to run the ball. That being said I think that Portis is fine. Not 100% but I think he can still be an elite back in the NFL with a decent or better offensive line.

EternalEnigma21 · 12-07-2007, 10:00 PM

I'm not blaming portis, but asking if its a matter of scheme or execution? Or both?? I mean we had chris samuels (starter) pete kendall (starter) casey rabach (starter) mike sellers (starter) randy thomas (starter) and stephon heyer, who really looks like a very promising tower of a tackle...

Are they too small? I know I havent been enamored with Chris Samuel's pass blocking at all, but is he struggling with run blocking too?

I really hope they pinpoint the problem and get the running game going. we started out the year running alot and running well, but we've fizzled recently....

SouperMeister · 12-07-2007, 10:35 PM

We may have most of our starters back on the OL (minus Jansen), but that doesn't make it a good unit. It's time to start a youth movement throught the draft to build the O-line back up. If Portis ever played with the Hogs of old, he would have had 1,600 yards every year.

GMScud · 12-07-2007, 11:59 PM

The O-line is simply just not performing in the run game. Portis has averaged about 2 yards per carry for 4 straight games. That's AWFUL. And it's not showing signs of improvement. Injuries shminjuries. I'm tired of our sad run offense. What did we have, like 40 yards rushing last night, AT HOME?? I agree with SGG. It isn't Portis. Can't expect a back to get hit regularly in the backfield and avg over 4 yards per rush.

I'm worried about the Giants pass rush next weekend more than I am our running game. With Campbell out and Collins in, we now have a QB with the mobility of a statue. Pass pro looked good for Todd last night. It needs to stay that way next Sunday for us to have a chance at a W.

flashalexb · 12-08-2007, 12:51 AM

I don't think it is so much Portis because you could see how effective he was on screen passes. I think there wasn't much blocking as far as holes come and I also think he is scared to fumble it so he runs protecting the ball at all times taking away from his skill move ability.

SouperMeister · 12-08-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashalexb

I don't think it is so much Portis because you could see how effective he was on screen passes. I think there wasn't much blocking as far as holes come and I also think he is scared to fumble it so he runs protecting the ball at all times taking away from his skill move ability.

Gotta love Samuels hustling downfield on that screen to Portis - just awesome!

MTRedskinsFan · 12-08-2007, 02:25 AM

I agree w/ the rest of you that CP (or Betts, for that matter) is not responsible for the lackluster rushing attack. Both guys get hit behind the line of scrimmage on a regular basis and very few backs consistently break tackles in those situations. It actually looks to me like both CP and Betts are trying to run harder to make up for the line - against Chicago I saw Betts wrapped up behind the LOS by two Bears and he still managed to drag forward to the line.

The reason for our rushing woes is twofold IMO: 1) we're a small o-line in the NFL, so to be effective our guys have to be very close to 100% healthy 2) the blocking scheme has to involve lineman pulling down the line or rushing ahead to pick off linebackers - mass x speed = force - so we need to get up some speed to make solid blocks. Many teams have concentrated on getting penetration up the middle w/ LB's which pretty well immobalizes our small guys up front.

skinsguy · 12-08-2007, 01:51 PM

I also don't believe it's Portis. Even having Thomas back, I wasn't expecting him to perform at pro bowl level by any stretch with his first time back. With that said, despite having Sellers back in there as lead blocker, the majority of the run blocking has to fall on the offensive line. The guys in there are just too slow and very inconsistent with run blocking.

I also believe we need to have a youth movement on the offensive and defensive lines. We need quick linemen who can pull quickly and block on a consistent basis. Speaking of the offensive linemen, I was watching a you tube video last week of an early 80's Dallas/Washington game. Those hogs didn't just do their assignments, they went the extra mile in run blocking and pass protection. You had guys like Bostic who'd be blocking his guy and taking them out of the picture while chipping another blocker out of the way just enough to let the QB make a clean pass.

I'm not saying our present day OL isn't doing the samething, but those hogs hussled and were very aware of who and when they needed to block. They played as one unit and helped each other out. You tend not to get the same effect when you're having to start different linemen week to week, or that they're having to be shifted around on the OL.

MTK · 12-08-2007, 02:54 PM

Thomas didn't play very much against the Bears guys.

Still, I think more than anything teams are really stacking the box right now and daring our QB to beat them.

Can't put much of this on Portis, there simply haven't been many holes and he's getting hit in the backfield or at the LOS way too often.

Getting Sellers and Thomas back will probably be a big lift.

ArcticRed · 12-08-2007, 03:05 PM

I agree. The running game has been horrid. I took a concerned effort to count the number of defenders in the box and found that many teams are playing 8 players. I think its just no nonsense strategy to eliminate our main strength and put in Cambells hands to win.

Im sure Im not the only one whos notice Cambell throw some very questionable passes into coverage.

Another thing that hasnt been mentiond, though Im not sure if it has anything to do with the offensive line or pressure on campbell is the high fumble rate we are suffering this year. Heck, even Collins fumbled on Thursday only a few plays in. I cant figure that one out.

Though I should point out on the fumble, Collins really didnt step up in the pocket very much to avoid the pressure. My guess he could have moved up an extra two or three feet to be comfortably in the middle.

MTK · 12-08-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticRed

I agree. The running game has been horrid. I took a concerned effort to count the number of defenders in the box and found that many teams are playing 8 players. I think its just no nonsense strategy to eliminate our main strength and put in Cambells hands to win.

Im sure Im not the only one whos notice Cambell throw some very questionable passes into coverage.

Another thing that hasnt been mentiond, though Im not sure if it has anything to do with the offensive line or pressure on campbell is the high fumble rate we are suffering this year. Heck, even Collins fumbled on Thursday only a few plays in. I cant figure that one out.

Though I should point out on the fumble, Collins really didnt step up in the pocket very much to avoid the pressure. My guess he could have moved up an extra two or three feet to be comfortably in the middle.

I think the fact that Collins came in and fumbled (it was a good strip actually) points to the fact that perhaps Campbell's problem isn't exclusive to him, and maybe it's more on the offensive line for giving up too much pressure.

freddyg12 · 12-08-2007, 04:18 PM

Samuels was playing w/a bad foot, he said before the game he was in pain & having trouble moving. That explains him getting beat a couple times in pass pro & no doubt affected his burst off the line in running plays.

Losing Thomas in the 2nd quarter really hurt & Wade not playing did too. I know Heyer looks promising, but as it was noted by Ray Brown on comcast - he isn't very strong & will need to hit the weight room in the offseason. We can't expect him to be an effective run blocker yet. He's been a project from the get go.

Brown said that he's been impressed w/Heyer's leverage in pass blocking. It almost seems that maybe Heyer is that rare find of lineman that is better as a rookie in pass pro than run blocking. Usually its pass blocking that rookies struggle with, but he seems to hold his own, though he needs help just in case.

Fabini is simply not a starting caliber lineman at this point in his career. I don't see him making the team next year. Gibbs said Wade sat out due to his knee problems, but I wonder if there's more to it than that. Wade is solid but has been inconsistent this year. Maybe he's not a guy that can play well w/nagging injuries.

I don't expect us to be able to run the ball on the g-men unless we can keep them on the field a lot & wear them down in the 2nd half.

12-07-2007, 09:25 PM	#3
Cowell Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bluffton, South Carolina Posts: 803	Re: Running Game I too really don't think that it's Portis's fault. The line is getting no push and they aren't holding onto their blocks. We look like a high school team when we try to run the ball. That being said I think that Portis is fine. Not 100% but I think he can still be an elite back in the NFL with a decent or better offensive line.

12-07-2007, 10:00 PM	#4
EternalEnigma21 Assistant Regional Mod Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Carbondale CO Age: 44 Posts: 2,958	Re: Running Game I'm not blaming portis, but asking if its a matter of scheme or execution? Or both?? I mean we had chris samuels (starter) pete kendall (starter) casey rabach (starter) mike sellers (starter) randy thomas (starter) and stephon heyer, who really looks like a very promising tower of a tackle... Are they too small? I know I havent been enamored with Chris Samuel's pass blocking at all, but is he struggling with run blocking too? I really hope they pinpoint the problem and get the running game going. we started out the year running alot and running well, but we've fizzled recently.... __________________ I am the brute squad.

12-07-2007, 10:35 PM	#5
SouperMeister Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 60 Posts: 3,419	Re: Running Game We may have most of our starters back on the OL (minus Jansen), but that doesn't make it a good unit. It's time to start a youth movement throught the draft to build the O-line back up. If Portis ever played with the Hogs of old, he would have had 1,600 yards every year.

12-07-2007, 11:59 PM	#6
GMScud Swearinger Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 12,626	Re: Running Game The O-line is simply just not performing in the run game. Portis has averaged about 2 yards per carry for 4 straight games. That's AWFUL. And it's not showing signs of improvement. Injuries shminjuries. I'm tired of our sad run offense. What did we have, like 40 yards rushing last night, AT HOME?? I agree with SGG. It isn't Portis. Can't expect a back to get hit regularly in the backfield and avg over 4 yards per rush. I'm worried about the Giants pass rush next weekend more than I am our running game. With Campbell out and Collins in, we now have a QB with the mobility of a statue. Pass pro looked good for Todd last night. It needs to stay that way next Sunday for us to have a chance at a W. __________________ Tardy

12-08-2007, 12:51 AM	#7
flashalexb Camp Scrub Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 95	Re: Running Game I don't think it is so much Portis because you could see how effective he was on screen passes. I think there wasn't much blocking as far as holes come and I also think he is scared to fumble it so he runs protecting the ball at all times taking away from his skill move ability.

12-07-2007, 08:42 PM	#1
EternalEnigma21 Assistant Regional Mod Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Carbondale CO Age: 44 Posts: 2,958	Running Game Where'd it go? I thought for sure since we were getting Randy Thomas and Mike Sellers back we were going to run it down their throats... Were they just stacking the line against us the last couple of weeks? The bears have been getting run on like crazy and we were getting stuffed like a thanksgiving turkey.... (or irish's ass) where's our running game and can we resurrect it before we play the giants? we're gonna need it! __________________ I am the brute squad.

12-07-2007, 09:24 PM	#2
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	Re: Running Game Portis isn't playing like an elite back, but I don't buy for a second that he's washed up. Even guys like LT have averaged under 4.0 yards per carry in a season. Our inability to run the ball is a function of our inability to block. How many times did you see Portis get hit in the backfield last night, and not just by one guy but multiple guys? How many times did you see the line open up holes that anyone bigger than Vern Troyer could actually fit through. Granted, our #1 RT is on IR, our #2 RT is injured, our FB is injured, but come on.

12-08-2007, 02:25 AM	#9
MTRedskinsFan Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 359	Re: Running Game I agree w/ the rest of you that CP (or Betts, for that matter) is not responsible for the lackluster rushing attack. Both guys get hit behind the line of scrimmage on a regular basis and very few backs consistently break tackles in those situations. It actually looks to me like both CP and Betts are trying to run harder to make up for the line - against Chicago I saw Betts wrapped up behind the LOS by two Bears and he still managed to drag forward to the line. The reason for our rushing woes is twofold IMO: 1) we're a small o-line in the NFL, so to be effective our guys have to be very close to 100% healthy 2) the blocking scheme has to involve lineman pulling down the line or rushing ahead to pick off linebackers - mass x speed = force - so we need to get up some speed to make solid blocks. Many teams have concentrated on getting penetration up the middle w/ LB's which pretty well immobalizes our small guys up front.

12-08-2007, 01:51 PM	#10
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Running Game I also don't believe it's Portis. Even having Thomas back, I wasn't expecting him to perform at pro bowl level by any stretch with his first time back. With that said, despite having Sellers back in there as lead blocker, the majority of the run blocking has to fall on the offensive line. The guys in there are just too slow and very inconsistent with run blocking. I also believe we need to have a youth movement on the offensive and defensive lines. We need quick linemen who can pull quickly and block on a consistent basis. Speaking of the offensive linemen, I was watching a you tube video last week of an early 80's Dallas/Washington game. Those hogs didn't just do their assignments, they went the extra mile in run blocking and pass protection. You had guys like Bostic who'd be blocking his guy and taking them out of the picture while chipping another blocker out of the way just enough to let the QB make a clean pass. I'm not saying our present day OL isn't doing the samething, but those hogs hussled and were very aware of who and when they needed to block. They played as one unit and helped each other out. You tend not to get the same effect when you're having to start different linemen week to week, or that they're having to be shifted around on the OL. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

12-08-2007, 02:54 PM	#11
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Re: Running Game Thomas didn't play very much against the Bears guys. Still, I think more than anything teams are really stacking the box right now and daring our QB to beat them. Can't put much of this on Portis, there simply haven't been many holes and he's getting hit in the backfield or at the LOS way too often. Getting Sellers and Thomas back will probably be a big lift. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-08-2007, 03:05 PM	#12
ArcticRed Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 46	Re: Running Game I agree. The running game has been horrid. I took a concerned effort to count the number of defenders in the box and found that many teams are playing 8 players. I think its just no nonsense strategy to eliminate our main strength and put in Cambells hands to win. Im sure Im not the only one whos notice Cambell throw some very questionable passes into coverage. Another thing that hasnt been mentiond, though Im not sure if it has anything to do with the offensive line or pressure on campbell is the high fumble rate we are suffering this year. Heck, even Collins fumbled on Thursday only a few plays in. I cant figure that one out. Though I should point out on the fumble, Collins really didnt step up in the pocket very much to avoid the pressure. My guess he could have moved up an extra two or three feet to be comfortably in the middle.

12-08-2007, 04:18 PM	#14
freddyg12 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,540	Re: Running Game Samuels was playing w/a bad foot, he said before the game he was in pain & having trouble moving. That explains him getting beat a couple times in pass pro & no doubt affected his burst off the line in running plays. Losing Thomas in the 2nd quarter really hurt & Wade not playing did too. I know Heyer looks promising, but as it was noted by Ray Brown on comcast - he isn't very strong & will need to hit the weight room in the offseason. We can't expect him to be an effective run blocker yet. He's been a project from the get go. Brown said that he's been impressed w/Heyer's leverage in pass blocking. It almost seems that maybe Heyer is that rare find of lineman that is better as a rookie in pass pro than run blocking. Usually its pass blocking that rookies struggle with, but he seems to hold his own, though he needs help just in case. Fabini is simply not a starting caliber lineman at this point in his career. I don't see him making the team next year. Gibbs said Wade sat out due to his knee problems, but I wonder if there's more to it than that. Wade is solid but has been inconsistent this year. Maybe he's not a guy that can play well w/nagging injuries. I don't expect us to be able to run the ball on the g-men unless we can keep them on the field a lot & wear them down in the 2nd half.

Running Game

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