Hey, the sun did rise this morning!

[memphisskin]

I watched the game and posted in the game day thread, which as anyone of you has done should understand is only a reflection of that game. During any game it is easy for emotions to run away, especially during a particularly good or particularly bad showing. I watched the postgame coverage on Comcast, saw Jim Zorn's post game presser on redskins.com, and awoke this morning to read some of the game day posts and have a different perspective.

First off, anyone who judges regular season success from preseason records is naive. It was good to have Zorn "practice" winning, but most of those wins were achieved by guys who won't be wearing the burgundy and gold come Sep 4.

The defense played a heckuva first quarter. The offense didn't get a first down, and the defense held up. Even after the sudden change on Campbell's sack they held the Panthers to a field goal. They simply wore down. The Panthers get paid too, their coaches knew this and it was a series of runs that broke this game open. In the past, our defense has carried us when our offense has looked like this. And actually, having Landry in the game would have saved a couple of touchdowns as his speed and aggressiveness would have stopped at least one of those long runs.

The offense is impossible to judge simply because on just about every play one of our lineman was losing an individual battle. But was is clear is that Jason Campbell isn't trusting this offense yet. Zorn wants him to make quick decisions, but one offseason and training camp aren't nearly enough to get acclimated to a brand new offense and philosophy. It will click with Campbell, but it will just take some trial by fire. He'll be fine, it seemed he wanted to not make a mistake and so he pumped and second guessed himself. This can be corrected, probably not in 12 days but over the first four games.

We're not as bad as this game would appear and we're not as good as that 3-0 PRESEASON record looked either. We are what we are, a team installing a new offense under a rookie head coach. There will be bumps and bruises, but I think given a chance Zorn can be a good head coach in this league. It may not be this year, although I hope it is, but he will prove himself.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

I watched the game and posted in the game day thread, which as anyone of you has done should understand is only a reflection of that game. During any game it is easy for emotions to run away, especially during a particularly good or particularly bad showing. I watched the postgame coverage on Comcast, saw Jim Zorn's post game presser on redskins.com, and awoke this morning to read some of the game day posts and have a different perspective.

First off, anyone who judges regular season success from preseason records is naive. It was good to have Zorn "practice" winning, but most of those wins were achieved by guys who won't be wearing the burgundy and gold come Sep 4.

The defense played a heckuva first quarter. The offense didn't get a first down, and the defense held up. Even after the sudden change on Campbell's sack they held the Panthers to a field goal. They simply wore down. The Panthers get paid too, their coaches knew this and it was a series of runs that broke this game open. In the past, our defense has carried us when our offense has looked like this. And actually, having Landry in the game would have saved a couple of touchdowns as his speed and aggressiveness would have stopped at least one of those long runs.

The offense is impossible to judge simply because on just about every play one of our lineman was losing an individual battle. But was is clear is that Jason Campbell isn't trusting this offense yet. Zorn wants him to make quick decisions, but one offseason and training camp aren't nearly enough to get acclimated to a brand new offense and philosophy. It will click with Campbell, but it will just take some trial by fire. He'll be fine, it seemed he wanted to not make a mistake and so he pumped and second guessed himself. This can be corrected, probably not in 12 days but over the first four games.

We're not as bad as this game would appear and we're not as good as that 3-0 PRESEASON record looked either. We are what we are, a team installing a new offense under a rookie head coach. There will be bumps and bruises, but I think given a chance Zorn can be a good head coach in this league. It may not be this year, although I hope it is, but he will prove himself.

Things went smoothly on the first day of the Titanic's cruise, too. General Custer's troops looked sharp on morning before the battle of Little Big Horn. The lift-off of the space shuttle Challenger appeared normal, initially.

Get my point? How did the starting defense do for the rest of the first half, 28 points later? Jason Campbell couldn't trust the highly-paid, starting offensive line -- so how could he "trust the offense" ??

I know some people feel better after they sleep it off -- but there is absolutely NOTHING positive you can say about any part of that game last night.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Things went smoothly on the first day of the Titanic's cruise, too. General Custer's troops looked sharp on morning before the battle of Little Big Horn. The lift-off of the space shuttle Challenger appeared normal, initially.

Get my point? How did the starting defense do for the rest of the first half, 28 points later? Jason Campbell couldn't trust the highly-paid, starting offensive line -- so how could he "trust the offense" ??

I know some people feel better after they sleep it off -- but there is absolutely NOTHING positive you can say about any part of that game last night.

Great points, and you're right, there is nothing positive about last night's game.

As for Jason Campbell not trusting the offense, I'm basing that on some things Zorn has said in his press conferences and on Jason double and triple pumping. Jason Campbell said this offense was about throwing into open zones, which means he has to trust his receivers to get open before they actually are. When he's back there double and triple pumping (which he actually did on the long pass to Randle El up the left sideline) then he's not trusting the offense. In fact, him double pumping is trusting the offensive line to protect him instead of doing what the play is designed to do.

It was a preseason game, get the ball out of your hand! I love Jason Campbell, will be buying a #17 jersey home white pretty soon, and think he can be a heckuva qb. But he's got to let the ball go, and to me it seemed like was hesitating because he didn't trust his reads. He needs some confidence, hopefully he has a better showing next Thurs.

[NM Redskin]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

but there is absolutely NOTHING positive you can say about any part of that game last night.

Frost avg 51 and had a long of 65.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Things went smoothly on the first day of the Titanic's cruise, too.

Spurrier already sunk the ship for us. This won't be a team anything like Spurrier's.

[Daseal]

I'm with Beem. Last night was a terrible showing by this team, and I think it's naive to brush off getting demolished as easily as you do. The fact is we game planned, played 21 of 22 starters and got destroyed. The offense was terrible, our O line looks really bad. Jansen keeps getting worked over on a regular basis.

The starting defense did okay in the red zone. The problem was, the Panthers seemed to score before they got inside the 20. When we were backed up we were giving up FGs, but we were letting big plays happen regularly.

Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Is it something we, as fans, should be very concerned about? Absolutely. I remember 2006 everyone on this site crying about how preseason didn't matter as we were getting demolished and not doing simple things. The season resembled the preseason. I hope that isn't true this year.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I'm with Beem. Last night was a terrible showing by this team, and I think it's naive to brush off getting demolished as easily as you do. The fact is we game planned, played 21 of 22 starters and got destroyed. The offense was terrible, our O line looks really bad. Jansen keeps getting worked over on a regular basis.

The starting defense did okay in the red zone. The problem was, the Panthers seemed to score before they got inside the 20. When we were backed up we were giving up FGs, but we were letting big plays happen regularly.

Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Is it something we, as fans, should be very concerned about? Absolutely. I remember 2006 everyone on this site crying about how preseason didn't matter as we were getting demolished and not doing simple things. The season resembled the preseason. I hope that isn't true this year.

20 of 22. Washington and Landry were both out, but whose counting.

[birdz4gibbs]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I'm with Beem. Last night was a terrible showing by this team, and I think it's naive to brush off getting demolished as easily as you do. The fact is we game planned, played 21 of 22 starters and got destroyed. The offense was terrible, our O line looks really bad. Jansen keeps getting worked over on a regular basis.

The starting defense did okay in the red zone. The problem was, the Panthers seemed to score before they got inside the 20. When we were backed up we were giving up FGs, but we were letting big plays happen regularly.

Is it the end of the world? Absolutely not. Is it something we, as fans, should be very concerned about? Absolutely. I remember 2006 everyone on this site crying about how preseason didn't matter as we were getting demolished and not doing simple things. The season resembled the preseason. I hope that isn't true this year.

you took the words right out of my mouth..i had a flashback of 2006 myself and that was scary in itself right there.

[Schneed10]

Memphisskin, I think you touched on some thoughtful points, but you put too much of a positive spin on things.

I do agree that of the two units, I'm far less concerned about the defense. LaRon Landry is indeed the lynchpin of our defense, and without his range back there we are no better than average on D. With him, we can be a top 10 defense.

Still, our inability to stop the run was alarming. Kareem Moore and Doughty took horrific angles and tackled poorly, I have no doubt Landry would have stopped Williams and Stewart on those two large runs and limited them to 10-15 yard gains. But the core problem really was that our front seven couldn't keep Carolina's backs from getting into the secondary. Even if Landry were there to stop those long runs, the way Carolina was consistenly opening holes, I have no doubt they would have just marched down the field anyway, springing the backs for 8-yard gain after 8-yard gain until they methodically marched into the end zone.

Our front 7 has a TON of work to do. I've seen them do it before, so I'm not THAT concerned, but it's still alarming.

As for the offense, we should be very concerned. This is two weeks in a row now that Campbell has hesitated. He is not making quick reads and quick decisions (even when given enough time to throw). These are the telltale signs of a guy still learning an offense. The WCO is dependent upon the timing and the ability of the QB to make quick reads. You must be confident in your knowledge of the offense to make the reads quickly enough. You can tell Campbell is nowhere close.

And of course, none of that will matter if we can't protect the QB, because then not only will we miss opportunities, but we'll take sacks and turn the ball over.

The offense has MILES to go, we're showing signs of being the worst offense in the league. Yes, maybe it's just preseason and we didn't bring our bread and butter. We can hope that's the case - but nothing we've seen over the past two weeks gives us any indication that will be the case.

Too many fans are dismissing this poor performance on the HOPE that "it's just preseason." But careful and thoughtful analysis indicates that we suck balls at this point.

Someone in another thread said we're headed for a 1-4 start. I'd actually be impressed with the coaching staff if we manage to do better than that.

We're in for a tough year.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Memphisskin, I think you touched on some thoughtful points, but you put too much of a positive spin on things.

I do agree that of the two units, I'm far less concerned about the defense. LaRon Landry is indeed the lynchpin of our defense, and without his range back there we are no better than average on D. With him, we can be a top 10 defense.

Still, our inability to stop the run was alarming. Kareem Moore and Doughty took horrific angles and tackled poorly, I have no doubt Landry would have stopped Williams and Stewart on those two large runs and limited them to 10-15 yard gains. But the core problem really was that our front seven couldn't keep Carolina's backs from getting into the secondary. Even if Landry were there to stop those long runs, the way Carolina was consistenly opening holes, I have no doubt they would have just marched down the field anyway, springing the backs for 8-yard gain after 8-yard gain until they methodically marched into the end zone.

Our front 7 has a TON of work to do. I've seen them do it before, so I'm not THAT concerned, but it's still alarming.

As for the offense, we should be very concerned. This is two weeks in a row now that Campbell has hesitated. He is not making quick reads and quick decisions (even when given enough time to throw). These are the telltale signs of a guy still learning an offense. The WCO is dependent upon the timing and the ability of the QB to make quick reads. You must be confident in your knowledge of the offense to make the reads quickly enough. You can tell Campbell is nowhere close.

And of course, none of that will matter if we can't protect the QB, because then not only will we miss opportunities, but we'll take sacks and turn the ball over.

The offense has MILES to go, we're showing signs of being the worst offense in the league. Yes, maybe it's just preseason and we didn't bring our bread and butter. We can hope that's the case - but nothing we've seen over the past two weeks gives us any indication that will be the case.

Too many fans are dismissing this poor performance on the HOPE that "it's just preseason." But careful and thoughtful analysis indicates that we suck balls at this point.

Someone in another thread said we're headed for a 1-4 start. I'd actually be impressed with the coaching staff if we manage to do better than that.

We're in for a tough year.

In my opinion campbell has always locked on to his primary receiver and not shown the ability or confidence to read defenses and check down to another receiver before his 2.9 seconds are up. this being said campbell has great pocket presence and will get better. thats one of the reasons we brought zorn on board.

i dont have to "hope" its preseason, it WAS a preseason game lol! (i know what you meant thoo, just couldnt resist)

go skins!!

we will be an 8-8 team give or take a game (and a suisham kick) and will yet again need to go on a run in the end to push into the playoffs. our D dictates our success and we have pretty much the same squad as last year.

[squrrelco3]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

In my opinion campbell has always locked on to his primary receiver and not shown the ability or confidence to read defenses and check down to another receiver before his 2.9 seconds are up. this being said campbell has great pocket presence and will get better. thats one of the reasons we brought zorn on board.

i dont have to "hope" its preseason, it WAS a preseason game lol! (i know what you meant thoo, just couldnt resist)

go skins!!

we will be an 8-8 team give or take a game (and a suisham kick) and will yet again need to go on a run in the end to push into the playoffs. our D dictates our success and we have pretty much the same squad as last year.

It may take another year for Campbell to get there...I remember when Matt Hasselbeck was called Matt Hasselsuck or Matt Clusterf*ck...it took him about 3 or 4 years to really come into All-Pro form...the question is, will Danny have that kind of patience or will he fire Zorn if we have a bad year and bring in Cowher...

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

In my opinion campbell has always locked on to his primary receiver and not shown the ability or confidence to read defenses and check down to another receiver before his 2.9 seconds are up. this being said campbell has great pocket presence and will get better. thats one of the reasons we brought zorn on board.

i dont have to "hope" its preseason, it WAS a preseason game lol! (i know what you meant thoo, just couldnt resist)

go skins!!

we will be an 8-8 team give or take a game (and a suisham kick) and will yet again need to go on a run in the end to push into the playoffs. our D dictates our success and we have pretty much the same squad as last year.

Do you really believe JC has great pocket presence. I think thats one of his biggest problems. Its like he is never aware that a sack is coming or that he needs to move out of the pocket to buy time and just stands there until he gets hit. Thats one of the reasons he fumbles so many times while just standing in the pocket.

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Do you really believe JC has great pocket presence. I think thats one of his biggest problems. Its like he is never aware that a sack is coming or that he needs to move out of the pocket to buy time and just stands there until he gets hit. Thats one of the reasons he fumbles so many times while just standing in the pocket.

Yep, yep... and yep! ...

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Do you really believe JC has great pocket presence. I think thats one of his biggest problems. Its like he is never aware that a sack is coming or that he needs to move out of the pocket to buy time and just stands there until he gets hit. Thats one of the reasons he fumbles so many times while just standing in the pocket.

well i agree with you that campbell could roll out of the pocket more but from what ive observed of him and read from alot of you all here is that campbell does not get flustered or takes his eyes from down field when things are going on around him. as the experts call it "pocket presence". now that will cause him getting sacked more (and losing fumbles like we saw for a stretch last year) but it also allows him to hang tough in the pocket and make plays whereas brunnell would have thrown the ball into the stands already.

yes campbell holds onto the ball too long and waits till the receiver is open (which may be a prob with the WC off) but i thought a quarterback hanging tough in the pocket and not throwing the ball away was a good thing comparatively?

campbell is not perfect but id take him over half the nfl starters in the league. IF ONLY HE COULD LEARN TO READ A FREAKIN DEFENSE AND CHECK OFF TO HIS SECOND OPTION!!!! (i now know what im asking santa claus for xmas)

go skins!!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

well i agree with you that campbell could roll out of the pocket more but from what ive observed of him and read from alot of you all here is that campbell does not get flustered or takes his eyes from down field when things are going on around him. as the experts call it "pocket presence". now that will cause him getting sacked more (and losing fumbles like we saw for a stretch last year) but it also allows him to hang tough in the pocket and make plays whereas brunnell would have thrown the ball into the stands already.

yes campbell holds onto the ball too long and waits till the receiver is open (which may be a prob with the WC off) but i thought a quarterback hanging tough in the pocket and not throwing the ball away was a good thing comparatively?

campbell is not perfect but id take him over half the nfl starters in the league. IF ONLY HE COULD LEARN TO READ A FREAKIN DEFENSE AND CHECK OFF TO HIS SECOND OPTION!!!! (i now know what im asking santa claus for xmas)

go skins!!

Well I don't look at pocket presense as a guy who seems to ignore everything around him and then take a sack or loose the ball while trying to throw. I like the fact he can focuse down field but he needs to look around some and find an open WR. At some point he has to move or throw the ball away and stop taking sacks or putting the ball on the ground. He is in a new system so I'm giving him some room but some of these mistakes are ones that he has always made.