Counter Trey

Redskins_P · 09-09-2004, 10:29 AM

For those of you who either aren't old enough to remember or you just became a fan. Here is the Gibb's bread and butter play. This WP article gives the perfect description of it:

Though the Redskins kept their offense mostly simple in preseason games this summer, Gibbs already has employed some of the classic plays in his arsenal.

They included the counter trey, once the Redskins' signature running play that Gibbs implemented his first season and used for years to take advantage of his gifted and mobile offensive line, then as now coached by Joe Bugel. In the counter trey, Bostic, the center, right guard Mark May and right tackle George Starke would block to the left, giving the appearance of a run to the left. Left guard Russ Grimm and left tackle Joe Jacoby would then pull out from their positions and head around the right corner and down the field looking for linebackers and defensive backs to flatten.

The running back would take a step to the left to draw the defense to that side, then take a handoff from the quarterback and head right behind Grimm and Jacoby, with defenders often scattered like so many bowling pins along the way.

Now just imagine Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels running right at the defense full speed with Portis following. This play is great!

FRPLG · 09-09-2004, 10:36 AM

A true staple of any decent running offense nowadays. It is suceptible to athletic and fast LBS who can blow around the weak side and the center. Guys like Arrington eat a counter trey up if it isn't run perfectly. Luckily he's on our team.

GoSkins! · 09-09-2004, 11:02 AM

Thats why it takes a guy like Gibbs to run the play well. He demands perfection!

Beemnseven · 09-09-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

A true staple of any decent running offense nowadays. It is suceptible to athletic and fast LBS who can blow around the weak side and the center. Guys like Arrington eat a counter trey up if it isn't run perfectly. Luckily he's on our team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

yeah we have to be wary. LBs have certainly gotten a lot faster since those days, and I think linemen have only gotten bigger and slower. there will be some teams you just can't do this to depending on who's lined up at LB

It's common knowledge that the way to stop the counter-trey is to get penetration quickly and knock out the pulling linemen before they can get around the corner. There were still some fast linebackers in Gibbs' first stint -- and teams today still utilize some forms of running plays that involve pulling linemen, who have gotten faster too.

Bottom line is, if it's not working right, Gibbs will adjust and fix it.

illdefined · 09-09-2004, 11:51 AM

yeah we have to be wary. LBs have certainly gotten a lot faster since those days, and I think linemen have only gotten bigger and slower. there will be some teams you just can't do this to depending on who's lined up at LB

CRT3 · 09-09-2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

Now just imagine Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels running right at the defense full speed with Portis following. This play is great!

Imagine to if Thomas played next to Samuels. The Counter to the right works with Samuels and Dockery pulling. To the left you will see Thomas and Jones pulling. This is the counter.

Redskins_P · 09-09-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRT3

Imagine to if Thomas played next to Samuels. The Counter to the right works with Samuels and Dockery pulling. To the left you will see Thomas and Jones pulling. This is the counter.

My bad......

im4skins · 09-09-2004, 01:26 PM

The counter trey worked so great b/c riggins and other backs, like byner, had some speed, but not too fast to beat his blockers around the end. Portis on the other hand is a quicker and looking to hit that corner quickly. I think Portis may have a small problem at first, but once he realizes to wait and follow his blockers he will have more success.

FRPLG · 09-09-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by im4skins

The counter trey worked so great b/c riggins and other backs, like byner, had some speed, but not too fast to beat his blockers around the end. Portis on the other hand is a quicker and looking to hit that corner quickly. I think Portis may have a small problem at first, but once he realizes to wait and follow his blockers he will have more success.

he showed some problems with this exactly in the preseason. Denver uses a spread that opens holes naturally by design but the trey and Gibbs' other basic runs are generally blow 'em open type plays that require strength and technique on the part of the blockers. In essense the holes are generated by the blockers rather than by the design of the play. Portis may have early issues trying to hit a hole when it wont always materialize in the same place or at the same time. It takes patience which will need to be learned.

memphisskin · 09-09-2004, 02:06 PM

I saw that Portis had trouble early reading the hole on this play early, but in the Miami game you could see the light bulb really come on. I think all the early debate centered on Riggins running the play with power, but Portis' speed adds a new dimension altogether. Once Portis gets in the secondary he excels at finishing runs. Just look at his Denver highlights, once he gets past the linebackers he is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive.

SKINSnCANES · 09-09-2004, 12:41 PM

the problem is that thomas and samules wont be pulling becuase they play on opposite sites. It will be fat ass dockery and Samuels... Or fast Thomas and Jones (who I dont know much about his speed).

BIGREDSKINFAN63 · 09-09-2004, 05:24 PM

nobody has ever run a better running play.riggins ran it better than anybody,but byner,riggs,ricky ervins,robert green,joe morris,joe washington,otis wonsley,brian mitchell,andra franklin,george rogers,everybody that was put back there ran it well because the blocking was there.from 1981-1992 the washington redskins lined up and
every team in the league knew they were gonna run 50 gut,counter trey,or right up the middle and nobody could stop them.

Daseal · 09-09-2004, 05:54 PM

Portis doesn't need a ton of help to get by people. With blazing speed an obstruction could be enough to break Portis for a gain. If he's getting to the LBs he probably is averaging close to 4 YPC anyways, which I'll glady accept.

jrocx69 · 09-09-2004, 06:23 PM

with gibbs formation shifts and motions, the opposing lbs will be confused long enough where the weak side lbs shouldnt be there in time. thats the whole point in his motion pkgs and form shifts. even though the counter takes longer to set up, lbs and dbs still have to wonder about gibbs favorite..... play action.

JWsleep · 09-09-2004, 06:24 PM

Here's what we want: Portis hitting the edge with Samuels out in front of him destroying the weakside LB/Safety. Don't worry: Portis will figure out how to exploit the play.

09-09-2004, 10:29 AM	#1
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 46 Posts: 4,101	Counter Trey For those of you who either aren't old enough to remember or you just became a fan. Here is the Gibb's bread and butter play. This WP article gives the perfect description of it: Though the Redskins kept their offense mostly simple in preseason games this summer, Gibbs already has employed some of the classic plays in his arsenal. They included the counter trey, once the Redskins' signature running play that Gibbs implemented his first season and used for years to take advantage of his gifted and mobile offensive line, then as now coached by Joe Bugel. In the counter trey, Bostic, the center, right guard Mark May and right tackle George Starke would block to the left, giving the appearance of a run to the left. Left guard Russ Grimm and left tackle Joe Jacoby would then pull out from their positions and head around the right corner and down the field looking for linebackers and defensive backs to flatten. The running back would take a step to the left to draw the defense to that side, then take a handoff from the quarterback and head right behind Grimm and Jacoby, with defenders often scattered like so many bowling pins along the way. Now just imagine Randy Thomas and Chris Samuels running right at the defense full speed with Portis following. This play is great!

09-09-2004, 01:26 PM	#8
im4skins Camp Scrub Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: virginia Posts: 16	Portis and the counter trey The counter trey worked so great b/c riggins and other backs, like byner, had some speed, but not too fast to beat his blockers around the end. Portis on the other hand is a quicker and looking to hit that corner quickly. I think Portis may have a small problem at first, but once he realizes to wait and follow his blockers he will have more success.

09-09-2004, 12:41 PM	#11
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 5,454	the problem is that thomas and samules wont be pulling becuase they play on opposite sites. It will be fat ass dockery and Samuels... Or fast Thomas and Jones (who I dont know much about his speed). __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

09-09-2004, 05:24 PM	#12
BIGREDSKINFAN63 Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: bassett-va Age: 61 Posts: 289	nobody has ever run a better running play.riggins ran it better than anybody,but byner,riggs,ricky ervins,robert green,joe morris,joe washington,otis wonsley,brian mitchell,andra franklin,george rogers,everybody that was put back there ran it well because the blocking was there.from 1981-1992 the washington redskins lined up and every team in the league knew they were gonna run 50 gut,counter trey,or right up the middle and nobody could stop them. __________________ "7 days without the redskins, makes one weak!!!"

09-09-2004, 06:24 PM	#15
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,719	Here's what we want: Portis hitting the edge with Samuels out in front of him destroying the weakside LB/Safety. Don't worry: Portis will figure out how to exploit the play. __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-09-2004, 10:36 AM	#2
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	A true staple of any decent running offense nowadays. It is suceptible to athletic and fast LBS who can blow around the weak side and the center. Guys like Arrington eat a counter trey up if it isn't run perfectly. Luckily he's on our team.

09-09-2004, 11:02 AM	#3
GoSkins! The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorktown, Va Age: 55 Posts: 1,587	Thats why it takes a guy like Gibbs to run the play well. He demands perfection!

09-09-2004, 11:51 AM	#5
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	yeah we have to be wary. LBs have certainly gotten a lot faster since those days, and I think linemen have only gotten bigger and slower. there will be some teams you just can't do this to depending on who's lined up at LB

09-09-2004, 02:06 PM	#10
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	I saw that Portis had trouble early reading the hole on this play early, but in the Miami game you could see the light bulb really come on. I think all the early debate centered on Riggins running the play with power, but Portis' speed adds a new dimension altogether. Once Portis gets in the secondary he excels at finishing runs. Just look at his Denver highlights, once he gets past the linebackers he is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive.

09-09-2004, 05:54 PM	#13
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Portis doesn't need a ton of help to get by people. With blazing speed an obstruction could be enough to break Portis for a gain. If he's getting to the LBs he probably is averaging close to 4 YPC anyways, which I'll glady accept.

09-09-2004, 06:23 PM	#14
jrocx69 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas Age: 43 Posts: 461	with gibbs formation shifts and motions, the opposing lbs will be confused long enough where the weak side lbs shouldnt be there in time. thats the whole point in his motion pkgs and form shifts. even though the counter takes longer to set up, lbs and dbs still have to wonder about gibbs favorite..... play action.

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