Redskins "Low-balling" Hall (Allegedly)

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Earlier today, PFT posted a blog entry saying we are about to make a "Major Offer" to DeAngelo Hall.

ProFootballTalk.com - “MAJOR OFFER” COMING FOR DEANGELO?

According to two independant and reputable sources on extremeskins [yes, i "slum it" there, on occasion, so sue me! :-) ], the hold up in the deal is that the skins have been offering Hall 12M garaunteed and he wants 16. If true, this really, really irks me, guys.

In only a few weeks the system, Hall became our best, most reliable corner last year. He will be only 25 when the season starts (for comparison carlos Rogers will be 28), so if we signed him to a 6 year deal, he would still only be 30 or 31 when it came time to renegotiate or extend him. Without a doubt, he is one of the top 10-15 corners in the league right now. Yes, he has had some "issues" in the past, but those issues never affected his play, and he seems to have matured anyways... So why the heck are we only offering him 12M garaunteed?!

is 16 garaunteed really that unreasonable for Hall?

Here are some other recent contracts for CBs:

-Nate Clements got 80M with 22M garaunteed
-Asante Samuel got 57.6M for 6 years with 20M garaunted
-Chris Gamble got 53 M for 6 years with 23M garaunteed

IMO, we are really low-balling Hall with the offer of 12M garaunteed. He is not as good a corner as Clements or Samuel, but i view him as deserving something in the same ballpark as Gamble. With his asking price of 16M, he really seems to be giving us something of a "hometown discount."

Considering how much cap room other teams have, the annual "inflation" for player salaries in the NFL, and the fact that hall is "only" asking for 16M garaunteed, and Rogers is becoming disgruntled, we should sign Hall to that deal ASAP. If he hits the open market, someone else will likely give him significantly more than that.

Personally, I think something along the lines of 52M for 6 years with 16M garaunteed is a very fair price for Halls services. What do you guys think?

[MTK]

I'm not a big fan of signing Hall to a long term deal but it appears to be inevitable at this point. I'll comment on the $$ once a deal is finalized.

[Skins fan 44]

Laveranues Coles got what 14 million signing bonus a few years. So come on give him what he wants. But then again look how things ended with him.

[jamf]

I don't think he is a top tier.

If you don't think his problems effected his play then you need to review his first 6 games with Oakland this year.

A true cover corner is a rarity, D-Hall is not one. But he can be a solid corner and I think he is definitely worth resigning but we should not break the bank for him.

[44ever]

Typical Skins neg. They'll pay a guy from somewhere else BIG. But low ball their own. "Self sabotage mentality"

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Typical Skins neg. They'll pay a guy from somewhere else BIG. But low ball their own. "Self sabotage mentality"

Wait, he plays for us half a season and somehow he's our own?! Carlos, yes. He's homegrown and, if in the plans, should get a quality offer. Hall? The Raiders were already fleeced for his services - So we should repeat their mistake? This is not someone who has shown that he has a tradition of "team first".

If we can lock him up cheap, great. If not, hasta la vista baby!

[Schneed10]

It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether.

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it.

The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether.

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it.

The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did?

Absent a new CBA though, signing bonus money from contracts signed from here through Week 10 of the 2009 season cannot prorate money past 2012.

So this is way more significant than a .7 million difference. A 12 million SB prorated becomes a 3 million hit this year. 16 million SB becomes a 4 million hit this year.

And then the 30% rule makes contracts in this climate a general mess.

I guess the bottom line is that if you combine this with the economy, and this great free agent class is going to get grossly underpaid. It makes sense to free up as much room as possible and get in on the action.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

I recognize that you know more about the salary cap than i ever will, but i have to disagree with you there.

Considering Smoot is garbage, Carlos Rogers cant hold on to the ball andwants a big payday or a trade, and Shawn Springs is excellent when healthy but is old and a stiff breeze keeps him out of a game, 0.7M is well worth the investment.... especially when you consider that if we let Hall walk, it essentially forces us to keep springs at 8.5M - thats twelve times $700,000 difference in 2009 garaunteed money it would take to keep Hall here. So by your logic, if paying hall more money means losing out on one additional quality-depth guy, then letting hall walk will cost us twelve of those guys....

On the other hand, if we take the long-term view and give hall his money, we have more flexibility in deciding what we want to do with Springs, and can secure a starting CB spot up for the next 6 years or so.

I understand we have had a problem with overspending in the past... but everyone forgets we also had problems with letting great players walk because we tried to low-ball them. In my view, the approach we are taking with Hall is scarily similar to the approach we took with Antonio Pierce and Ryan Clark. We could have kept both those players if we had just paid them what they were worth, instead of playing hardball and letting them taste free agency. We let both of those guys go, and they got respectable contracts with their new teams and went on to superbowls... and what have we done since?

Yes, there is a danger in overpaying. But Hall isnt asking us to overpay him. Hes not even asking for much more than what we're willing to pay. What he's asking for is fair. IMO letting Hall walk because of a 0.7M/year difference would be a mistake of epic proportions.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It would be no surprise to me if it's true that Vinny wants to keep the guaranteed money lower. He has to be concerned about the team's cap situation and knows he needs to keep as much room available to maneuver, or he's going to lose out on free agency altogether.

On a 6 year deal, $12 million guaranteed would take up $2 million in 2009 cap space. $16 million would take up $2.7 million. That's a big difference, an amount that would allow for one additional quality-depth guy in free agency.

It's also quite possible that the Redskins are betting Hall won't be able to do better. Revenue streams are in decline for NFL franchises due to the economy. There may be a lot of teams simply unwilling to pay it.

The way I see it, we should be thanking Vinny here. He's trying to keep a cool head, locking good players up for a reasonable amount. Would you rather he spend $20 million guaranteed on a Nate Clements type like the 49ers did?

Great point. As much as I think Vinny is just Dan's bitch, I think this is a smart move if the story is true. This is going to be a real quiet free agent year. The money is just not going to be there.

[freddyg12]

this dude wore out his welcome in oakland of all places!
He could be the best cb in the league, but he has chosen to play his way & gamble a lot. He did play really well here, but it was an audition. How will he play when he's paid & we're stuck w/him?

I've never been a fan of signing him, but considering they're interested, The Skins are doing the right thing here (if this is accurate). Interest in him when he was cut was not that high because any team signing him would have had to assume his full contract. Take a look at that contract w/the raiders. How much was it worth? Whatever the #, Hall is obviously worth less & that was proven on the open market this season.

[CRedskinsRule]

I would add that most teams will be looking at Hall's full season, the fact that the Raiders outright released him, and all the worries that could follow. I do like how he has a knack for holding on to the ball, his hands are his talent, but I think you could watch the film and see him out of place frequently also.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I would add that most teams will be looking at Hall's full season, the fact that the Raiders outright released him, and all the worries that could follow. I do like how he has a knack for holding on to the ball, his hands are his talent, but I think you could watch the film and see him out of place frequently also.

So we have Carlos Rogers who is always in position but has no hands or D. Hall with great hands and frequently out of place. Flip a coin.
I think we have to take a chance on Hall.

[CRedskinsRule]

I wouldn't go overboard for him, because that will definitely set the bar for Rodgers, and if I had to choose, I would keep Rodgers. At 12 Million maybe they hope to be able to keep both,which would be the best situation personnel wise.

[Eknox]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I wouldn't go overboard for him, because that will definitely set the bar for Rodgers, and if I had to choose, I would keep Rodgers. At 12 Million maybe they hope to be able to keep both,which would be the best situation personnel wise.

I would love to see that happen, to see them sign both at about $12m each